i still dont see where the debate is, dolfamingo already outlasted gear 4th
Outlasted Gear 4th? More like he stalled.
1. Joker knew Luffy was wasting haki
Just like Law knew Luffy was wating haki simply after seeing Luffy after executing 4-5 attacks, he knew he was wasting haki. This is why Joker stalled and was literally using his strings as a deterrent.
2. Joker was stalling
Joker very well knew that after he realized he couldn't do much to damage Luffy, the best he could do was stall and he did so by creating walls/shields.
We see this attacks over and over again even after 20 minutes..
Can tell from his expressions that he's having a severely difficult time deterring Luffy in Gear 4th and look at his face once Luffy breaks through his shied of strings? He knows what's coming.
So, it really isn't a case of Joker outlasting Gear 4th, it's more like he was in survival mode and needed Luffy's haki to deplete before he could even begin to entertain the though of going on the offence. Joker was clearly on the defence as soon as Gear 4th came out the woodwork.
-after fighting in the Colosseum, luffy even ate lunch before running off, and he dint do any fighting for a long while after, on the other hand, DD's injuries were right before gear fourth, it was even directly implied that doflamingo's injuries were more serious
They were both pretty much fine, no one was really more damaged than the other. Joker's clone was the one doing all the work while he remained unharmed. Joker didn't come into harm's way until Luffy and Law appeared at the palace. Don't forget the head tht Kyros decapitated was merely his clone. So, it's not like Joker went into the fight handicapped. Oda did a fair job making sure both were equally hurt, but it was nothing significant that makes one person clearly more injured than the other.
have you ever seen someone with internal damage (like being impaled) start running marathons directly after coming out of the emergency room?, its indisputable that DD was still heavily injured, the claim that he didnt show any pain is also a poor argument, to give an example of this happening in OP, after fighting with morriah, luffy didnt look like he was suffering from any serious pain. i need not say more.
This is taking Joker's injuries far beyond what Joker's injuries were, it wasn't that dire or Joker would have been coughing out blood at every instance and with every move he made.
When an injury sustained, we see the results and evidence that it's indeed a handicap:
Whitebeard was injured and fought like he had no stabs, in the end we saw him suffering from being injured which was mentioned and clearly highlighted to be the reason why he lost.
At what point do we see Joker referring to that attack as holding him back? No where, what people are going off on, is merely the description of the attack, the thing is the attack wasn't completely executed because Joker negated it.
He even got attacked by Counter Shock in the same spot where Gamme knife was used, and he got up effortlessly; if there was a time to show that Gamma Knife was really that huge a blow, it should have been aftre Law used Counter Shock because that'd imply that Gamma Knife was truly an effective attack.
In fact, if Gamma Knife was so effective, Counter Shock was pretty much a pointless attack; however, the fact that it was a futile attack in the end does show how short-lasting anything Gamma Knife did was.
Joker was defeated within 30 minutes which was the set-time people were going to begin to start dying off as he stated.
If he was barely holding on to his internal organs as being made out, then Joker should be dead already.His organs should have been out of place by the time he was knocked out and he should have been haemorrhaging profusely at that point, but was he? He wasn't and that essentially means that Gamma Knife was a short-lived and temporary injury. It didn't last for long enough a period to do much to hinder Joker.
the accusation that doflamingo is being cowardly because luffy was overpowering him is a poor argument, luffy's gomu gomu no mii allows him to FAR surpass his normally physical limits, making him a PURELY physical fighter, yet he still has to sacrifice, years of his life and chunks of his stamina to be able to do any significant damage. its almost unfair because no matter how hard luffy is getting his ass kicked, he can simply sacrifice a few more years of his life to get that extra punch in, doflamingo doesnt have that privellage, so fighting smart is his only resort, since his DF is more tactical that physically powerful( as is laws fruit ) . Not to say that his strings arent powerful, thats just a testament to how much DD has transcended past the normal limtis of DF use, i still dare to say that doflamingo is FAR superior to luffy
This takes the cake, now a fruit that can literally leech one's lifespan is an advantage.
Joker's ability allows him to turn inanimate objects into stings without any adverse effects like a drain in stamina or shortening of life-span? Joker could inedifinitely control strings with relying on his stamina and fight people off; that's quite the "disadvantage".
Joker can create a cage that doesn't weaken even if he's damaged or tired, it's up as long as his conscious; how is that not overpowered?
He literally doesn't even need to move to fight, he can create clones and control people with strings that can be seen, yet he's the one disadvantaged in comparison to Luffy who loses his life by pushing himself to his limit?
If anyone has the advantage in abilities, it's certainly not Luffy in this scenario.
He doesn't have to waste haki due to the convenience of an ability that doesn't drain stamina and is extremely powerful.
If we're going to start using fruits as an excuse for why 1 person is stronger than the other or more advantaged than the other, then it has to be done consistently. We should just deem everyone with a fruit weak just for having a fruit.
Sengoku must be weak for having the Buddha DF, Akainu must be weak, Kizaru must be weak, Jack must be weak; the only strong people must be those without one.
The whole purpose behind haki is to counter-act Devil fruit powers. Regardless of one's ability, the strong will be determined by the strength of their haki, or the likes of Rayleigh, Garp and many others would be insignificant.
A fruit is only made powerful by the user, or we can just assume that Usopp would be the world's strongest man purely by eating the Gura Gura no Mi.
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