The difference in Strength between Branch leaders, rulers and Squadron commanders

[Sakashi]

Hey guys! I'm curious about what you guys think about the power levels of these positions? In my opinion a branch leader should be stronger than a squadron commander because they are most likely direct decendants of the family heads. Also, if you ask me ruler isn't beneath squadron commanders...but at the same time rulers are not something you can joke about because they own a entire floor and not just anyone has the power to own a floor. It showcases how strong they are.

 

[hblock]

Good thread.
The way I see it is :

squadrond commander : Kallavan, Yashrachia, Evankhell, Kell Hellam, Yamah, Maschenny, Jinsung Ha, Cha, Dowon, Raivolic, Khun Royal Elliot
(gap)
vice-squadron commander : Elpathion, McCage
(gap)
Division commander : Ari Bright Sharon, Nyono Wan, Cheonhee Ha, Yas's DCs, Khun Hynd Lucci, Paul, Karaka,
(gap)
Vice-Division commander (lowest level of HRs battlewise) : Kay, Dorian Frog, Berdytch, Canzon, Gado, Yu Hansung, Madorako

Though, I can be wrong and we will cetainly have more visibility during this arc.

As for Lopobia branches, although there are 20 (+ the main family), all of them are certainly not equal and I'm quite positive there is a great disparity in strength among themselves since it won't be logical if all of them were squadron commander level. Jahad's army is well known as the organisation with the most martial might, and Ha/Arie/Khun families are way stronger than the others. So, at most, the Lopobia would've nothing more than a handful squadrong commander level threats, all branches and Jahad princesses included, right now.

Almost the same logic applies for floor rulers, there are 134 floors and it's not logical if all of them were squadrong commander level, nonetheless I'd rather argue that a ruler is at least in the strong side of HRs giving the standing and portrayal of such a position.

 

[livewire]

Good thread.
The way I see it is :

squadrond commander : Kallavan, Yashrachia, Evankhell, Kell Hellam, Yamah, Maschenny, Jinsung Ha, Cha, Dowon, Rayborg, Khun Royal Elliot
(gap)
vice-squadron commander : Elpathion, McCage
(gap)
Division commander : Ari Bright Sharon, Nyono Wan, Cheonhee Ha, Yas's DCs, Khun Hynd Lucci, Paul, Karaka,
(gap)
Vice-Division commander (lowest level of HRs battlewise) : Kay, Dorian Frog, Berdytch, Canzon, Gado, Yu Hansung, Madorako

Though, I can be wrong and we will cetainly have more visibility during this arc.

As for Lopobia branches, although there are 20 (+ the main family), all of them are certainly not equal and I'm quite positive there is a great disparity in strength among themselves since it won't be logical if all of them were squadron commander level. Jahad's army is well known as the organisation with the most martial might, and Ha/Arie/Khun families are way stronger than the others. So, at most, the Lopobia would've nothing more than a handful squadrong commander level threats, all branches and Jahad princesses included, right now.

Almost the same logic applies for floor rulers, there are 134 floors and it's not logical if all of them were squadrong commander level, nonetheless I'd rather argue that a ruler is at least in the strong side of HRs giving the standing and portrayal of such a position.

I agree with "hblock's" post.

Personally, I don't think it's so much their political or military position but overall strength based on overall experience, a great battle record and other factors. (Of course, not anyone can be a Squadron Commander or Floor Ruler since it has to be someone qualified for that position, which the minimum requirement I would pressume being is to be a High Ranker, among others factors). That being said though, political or military or influential position is still a fair way to gage but accurately assess who is stronger than who.

You mentioned the Floor Rulers......if I recall correctly for example, Arie Hon (One of the 10 Family Heads; 5th High Ranker) is the Floor Ruler of the 100th Floor and Baek Ryun (Wingtree Leader; 9th High Ranker) is the Floor Ruler of the 77th Floor. In comparison to Evankhell's Rank before being fired as Floor Ruler (When His Ranking was at 60 but is now below Top 100), it's big gap for sure.

 

[Echizen_Akira]

Wouldn't the branch leaders be the many spouses of the family heads? Meaning their strengths would be all over the place.

Floor rulers should be strong, but there are clearly different ways to gain control of a floor. Evenkhell got hers by killing the previous ruler. Baek got his from Urek, who won it from Arie Hon. And since most floors are owned by the 10 FH's / Jahad, the main method seems to be either being given it/earning it from them.

Squadron commander is the only position where strength is likely the deciding factor. So should be more consistent than the others.

 

[Fiodor Pavlovich K]

Good thread.
The way I see it is :

squadrond commander : Kallavan, Yashrachia, Evankhell, Kell Hellam, Yamah, Maschenny, Jinsung Ha, Cha, Dowon, Rayborg, Khun Royal Elliot
(gap)
vice-squadron commander : Elpathion, McCage
(gap)
Division commander : Ari Bright Sharon, Nyono Wan, Cheonhee Ha, Yas's DCs, Khun Hynd Lucci, Paul, Karaka,
(gap)
Vice-Division commander (lowest level of HRs battlewise) : Kay, Dorian Frog, Berdytch, Canzon, Gado, Yu Hansung, Madorako

Though, I can be wrong and we will cetainly have more visibility during this arc.

As for Lopobia branches, although there are 20 (+ the main family), all of them are certainly not equal and I'm quite positive there is a great disparity in strength among themselves since it won't be logical if all of them were squadron commander level. Jahad's army is well known as the organisation with the most martial might, and Ha/Arie/Khun families are way stronger than the others. So, at most, the Lopobia would've nothing more than a handful squadrong commander level threats, all branches and Jahad princesses included, right now.

Almost the same logic applies for floor rulers, there are 134 floors and it's not logical if all of them were squadrong commander level, nonetheless I'd rather argue that a ruler is at least in the strong side of HRs giving the standing and portrayal of such a position.

I agree with "hblock's" post.

Personally, I don't think it's so much their political or military position but overall strength based on overall experience, a great battle record and other factors. (Of course, not anyone can be a Squadron Commander or Floor Ruler since it has to be someone qualified for that position, which the minimum requirement I would pressume being is to be a High Ranker, among others factors). That being said though, political or military or influential position is still a fair way to gage but accurately assess who is stronger than who.

You mentioned the Floor Rulers......if I recall correctly for example, Arie Hon (One of the 10 Family Heads; 5th High Ranker) is the Floor Ruler of the 100th and Baek Ryun (Wingtree Leader; 9th High Ranker) is the Floor Rule. Compare to Evankhell's Rank before being fired as Floor Ruler (When His Ranking was at 60 but is now below Top 100), it's big gap for sure.

I can't agree enough with your posts.

I feel like keeping the consistency of the power levels throughout the story is one of the biggest challenges the manhwa/manga authors face. The ranking system SIU chose is much harder to keep the consistency than others schemes as general grades or titles. It is relatively easy to put a list like @hblock one that we can agree and make sense, but it would be really hard to rank them.

I think its safe to say that all the floors are owned by the irregulars and managed in their best interest (that might have little to do with fighting). We know for instance that trade, materials and items are very valuable in the tower. So I think the floor ruler position power might vary a lot because it is not a position that requires strength only (like an army position).

edit: Just realized I said almost the same thing as @Echizen_Akira. Anyway, I agree with you all XD

 

[Kaladin13]

I think it depends on what Branch Head entails
From what i can gather from the hidden floor only the strongest DD get to create a Branch Family but depending on the Family Head there could be strong DD that don't get to create branches for various reasons.
If Branch Head entails the strongest of the DD then I think the strongest branch head of each Great Family would make fodder out of kallavan.
The way i see it the strongest kid of a FH should be stronger than all members of Zahard's army barring Adori.
Though there may be exceptions like Hendo Lok who clearly doesn't have any particular strong kid or if The strongest DD is decesed by the time the story takes place they could have also joined another Organisation such as FUG or Wolhaiksong.
I think we already know the strongest DD two FH like the Ha twins or Ari Chun.

 

[Sakashi]

Isn't Cha a dd? If my memory isn't lying to me I recall reading that somewhere in these latest chapters. Cha punches the snake two times which made the snake to get pushed back which shows his strength but still I can't be so sure. We haven't seen Cha go all out.

 

[kkck]

TBH I don't think there will be clear tiers between these positions. They are not connected and there can potentially be many things influencing them. As in, branch heads are simply leaders of a specific part of a family, rulers are people assigned by administrators to manage a floor and squadron commanders are part of zahard's military.

Add to that, we have bare seen some of the relevant people to the discussion go all out. As in, we never got to see yama use his full transformation. With doom we only saw him in his maimed fangless just barely resurrected state. We saw kallavan and jinsung fight but we don't actually have that clear a reference of how they compare to others. Evankhel has just to fully release her ancient so her true power is still unknown.

 

[Yoneda Lemma]

I feel it’s

God tier: Phantaminum, Parakewl
S+: Enryu
S : Zahard, mazino

little above squadron: Kallavan(From Khel), Jinsung, Hellam, Evk

typical squadron level: Yas , Yama , Cha

Very close: Dowon

Very close (to losing everytime): Karaka, White

It seems some fights are dependent on a lot of variables. Jinsung might be able to kill EVK or Hellam with his ult move if it hits. Jinsung could have won against Kalla if he used ult with a follow up at the very start before Kalla activates EOB( it saved him as Hansung said) . Even with data still difficult to compare.

 

[Fiodor Pavlovich K]

I feel it’s

God tier: Phantaminum, Parakewl
S+: Enryu
S : Zahard, mazino

little above squadron: Kallavan(From Khel), Jinsung, Hellam, Evk

typical squadron level: Yas , Yama , Cha

Very close: Dowon

Very close (to losing everytime): Karaka, White

It seems some fights are dependent on a lot of variables. Jinsung might be able to kill EVK or Hellam with his ult move if it hits. Jinsung could have won against Kalla if he used ult with a follow up at the very start before Kalla activates EOB( it saved him as Hansung said) . Even with data still difficult to compare.

Yep that's why I believe its more reasonable to use a category (range) than a ranking system. We know (kind of) that Urek and Zahard are in the same vicinity regarding power, but do we know who is stronger? And there are so many things that we won't know even at the end of the story because to answer that question we need a direct confrontation or a statement from SIU.

 

[TheLastMartian]

I think it's based more on the individual vs their rank.

For all we know Kallavan is stronger than other Squad commanders.

I feel that Squad commander does imply they are top of the squad when it comes to combat strength (Maybe Kallavan thing is a bit of an exception cause of an irregular).

I think some branch leaders and some rulers are stronger and some are weaker than squad commanders. For example Arie Hon is the ruler of the 100th floor and he is ranked the strongest in the tower behind Zahard and the Cheat character irregulars, meanwhile it seemed to me that Kallavan is stronger than EVK or at least similar.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

(Maybe Kallavan thing is a bit of an exception cause of an irregular).

???
I was following until this part.

 

[TheLastMartian]

???
I was following until this part.

Well he isn't a squad commander anymore he is a low ranked soldier but still as strong as a squad commander, so he is an exception to the theory that squad commanders are top of their squad.

 

[Jubei_Kibagami]

I guess I didn't get what you were referring to about Kallavan and irregularity?

Do you mean the conventional term as in he's not a normal character, or do you mean the official tower usage of irregular - from outside the tower?

 

[TheLastMartian]

I guess I didn't get what you were referring to about Kallavan and irregularity?

Do you mean the conventional term as in he's not a normal character, or do you mean the official tower usage of irregular - from outside the tower?

I mean an irregular is involved as to why he is not a squad commander anymore. If Bamm never entered the tower, Kallavan would still be a squad commander. Without Bam involved every squad commander is the strongest in the squad but with Bam Squad 4 now has two squad commander level people in it and one is just a low ranked soldier.

Yea I def failed to word it properly at first, was tired and late at night.

As for rulers I imagine their powers vary by a lot. EVK seems to be below squad commander while Arie Hon, Koon Daddy, etc are rulers who could stomp a squad commander.

For the OP I think it goes squad commanders > most Rulers >= most branch heads. Of course there is nothing that says a branch head can't be a ruler (and I imagine some are). I think Branch head strength varies more than ruler strength.

I think it was said somewhere that all rulers are high rankers but I don't think the same rule applies for branch heads for obvious reasons. Also it never says that branch heads are the strongest of their branch. For all we know they are just the main parent who birthed most of the branch.

 

[Kaladin13]

I mean an irregular is involved as to why he is not a squad commander anymore. If Bamm never entered the tower, Kallavan would still be a squad commander. Without Bam involved every squad commander is the strongest in the squad but with Bam Squad 4 now has two squad commander level people in it and one is just a low ranked soldier.

Yea I def failed to word it properly at first, was tired and late at night.

As for rulers I imagine their powers vary by a lot. EVK seems to be below squad commander while Arie Hon, Koon Daddy, etc are rulers who could stomp a squad commander.

For the OP I think it goes squad commanders > most Rulers >= most branch heads. Of course there is nothing that says a branch head can't be a ruler (and I imagine some are). I think Branch head strength varies more than ruler strength.

I think it was said somewhere that all rulers are high rankers but I don't think the same rule applies for branch heads for obvious reasons. Also it never says that branch heads are the strongest of their branch. For all we know they are just the main parent who birthed most of the branch.

I also agree that in general Squadron Commanders are stronger than Branch Heads
In the LPB family alone there are presumably 20 Branch Heads and i don't think the army has that many SC, if you count the other Great Families then the number of Branch Heads shouldn't even be comparable to the number of SC.
Iirc it was mentioned that the only floor rulers that are not members of the 10 GF or Zahard's family are Evankhell (formerly) and Baek Ryun, this leads me to believe that a substantial number of Branch Heads are floor rulers, assuming other Great families have a similar structure to the LPB Family.
I think it goes Strongest floor ruler>>>Strongest Branch Head>>Strongest Squadron commander (assuming Adori isn't one)

 

[kkck]

In the more recent chapters doom mentions something to the effect of that new LPB guy being stronger than yaratcha due to being a family branch head... Family branch heads should be people within noble families who inherited particularly strong powers from their families, at a minimum. I still don't think there is a rule saying one is necessarily stronger than another but branch heads are almost certainly among the oldest and strongest members of the family. in the end this doesn't change that the lore makes the point that zahard's family (which includes princesses and the army) is the strongest in the tower though. And we also do not know how many squadron's zahard's army has. He could have 30 squadrons for all we know.

 

[hblock]

In the more recent chapters doom mentions something to the effect of that new LPB guy being stronger than yaratcha due to being a family branch head...

He said bird-guy is the strongest in his branch (since he is the branch head), not stronger than Yas'.
LPB having at least 20 CC level HRs deosn't make sens either, that's not even counting the main family monsters and potentially Jahad princesses as well.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I agree with this tier system because I see It all like a chess board, even If each piece in each team varies Power compared to their own tier and to their equivalents. The structure of Ranking System, families, FUG, Wolhaiksong and Jahad's Army is heavily based on strength.

Putting It another way, in football terms the scorer of a weak team might be weaker than the midfielder of another, but usually he Will still be compared to the other scorers, he is still the spearhead of his team. It's Just a pity his bunch is less gifted overall.

Like I Said in chapter threads b4, I think there are ruler tiers: FHs, Jahad, Urek, Baek, Adori and Luslec. Rare people among the top 150 won't be Floor Rulers, because It is a bonus without an onus, and reserved to the strongest ones within the Tower. Considering you only get to be ruler of one Floor at a time, and forfeiters, people up to 140 still have a chance of being Floor Rulers. So yep, the "First Tier" can't possibly hold Monopoly over Floor ruling, meaning a Floor ruler should range from tier 0 to halfway into tier 2.

Which brings us to tier #2. It is comprised of Slayers, Branch Heads (which are special direct descendants) and Squadron Commanders. I would open a window here for vice Squadron Commanders, as equal to common DDs (those that didn't found a branch of their own).

Tier #3: Lieutenants of Slayers (Doom, Paul, Death Lady, Poken), Division Commanders (Ari Bright, Ha Cheonhee, Fuscille) and Branch Family members.

So, doing some math, If there are 11 to 20 branches in each "group", then we get 16(average branch number)* 13(groups)= 208. Branch Heads, Slayers of yore, occasional Monsters and Squad leaders should occuppy all up to rank 250, give or take. This is the likely range of rank that Kheil Hellam, Yasurach, Yama, Raivolic, Mascheny, Dowon, Cha and Ha Jinsung occuppy: 101 to 250.

We don't have a number on DD rankers for reference, but tier 3 still has High Rankers, although not only. I would dare say that the best Adv Rankers, the best branch family members, the DD rankers, all belong in the 3rd tier. Out of a pure guess, I would place this range at: 251-1250. Meaning there's clearly not enough High Rankers to fullfill every one of these positions, and no way a High Ranker wouldn't have at least this much influence, never being (as Kallavan is currently) below a Division Commander.

 

[Kaladin13]

I agree with this tier system because I see It all like a chess board, even If each piece in each team varies Power compared to their own tier and to their equivalents. The structure of Ranking System, families, FUG, Wolhaiksong and Jahad's Army is heavily based on strength.

Putting It another way, in football terms the scorer of a weak team might be weaker than the midfielder of another, but usually he Will still be compared to the other scorers, he is still the spearhead of his team. It's Just a pity his bunch is less gifted overall.

Like I Said in chapter threads b4, I think there are ruler tiers: FHs, Jahad, Urek, Baek, Adori and Luslec. Rare people among the top 150 won't be Floor Rulers, because It is a bonus without an onus, and reserved to the strongest ones within the Tower. Considering you only get to be ruler of one Floor at a time, and forfeiters, people up to 140 still have a chance of being Floor Rulers. So yep, the "First Tier" can't possibly hold Monopoly over Floor ruling, meaning a Floor ruler should range from tier 0 to halfway into tier 2.

Which brings us to tier #2. It is comprised of Slayers, Branch Heads (which are special direct descendants) and Squadron Commanders. I would open a window here for vice Squadron Commanders, as equal to common DDs (those that didn't found a branch of their own).

Tier #3: Lieutenants of Slayers (Doom, Paul, Death Lady, Poken), Division Commanders (Ari Bright, Ha Cheonhee, Fuscille) and Branch Family members.

So, doing some math, If there are 11 to 20 branches in each "group", then we get 16(average branch number)* 13(groups)= 208. Branch Heads, Slayers of yore, occasional Monsters and Squad leaders should occuppy all up to rank 250, give or take. This is the likely range of rank that Kheil Hellam, Yasurach, Yama, Raivolic, Mascheny, Dowon, Cha and Ha Jinsung occuppy: 101 to 250.

We don't have a number on DD rankers for reference, but tier 3 still has High Rankers, although not only. I would dare say that the best Adv Rankers, the best branch family members, the DD rankers, all belong in the 3rd tier. Out of a pure guess, I would place this range at: 251-1250. Meaning there's clearly not enough High Rankers to fullfill every one of these positions, and no way a High Ranker wouldn't have at least this much influence, never being (as Kallavan is currently) below a Division Commander.

Neither Urek or Luslec are Floor rulers
You are heavily underestimating Doom he is clearly stronger than Elpathion and was a Slayer candidate, had Yama not intervened he would be a Slayer
He is most likely on the level of 2nd gen Slayers