Discussion The Japanese Study Thread

pocketmofo

Translator
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
230
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Re: The Japanese Language

English is certainly scewed up, but who the hell would refer to themselves as 晩生 or 鼻様?
 

destinator

MH Senpai
MH中毒 / MH Chuudoku / MH Addicted
Joined
Mar 31, 2006
Messages
5,646
Reaction score
561
Gender
Male
Country
Germany
Re: The Japanese Language

Well only 129 ? Damn I guess I shouldnt start again to learn japanese xD
 

Nihongaeri

Translator
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
359
Reaction score
112
Age
45
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Re: The Japanese Language

pocketmofo said:
Nice job, Nihongaeri (what have I wrought by reviving the topic of first-person pronouns...)! It's been quite a while since I've seen pronouns like "朕" mentioned in any form (let alone the other, even more archaic ones you listed)!
I always wondered why the hell they have 朕 on the 常用漢字 list though (and 勅 from 勅令, for that matter)... I mean I understand it from a political perspective, but still, there's tons of other kanji that get more usage that aren't on the list. The Naniwa-phile part of me really wants to see 阪 on the list.
Even many of the slightly old ones are still often used in manga and TV (the infamous 大河ドラマ like the recent Musashi, Shinsengumi and Yoshitsune) so it's great that you posted that list!
And I've always how much a part 大河ドラマ and other such period media plays in keeping the average Japanese person aware of words like 拙者.
Hopefully it won't confuse the hell out of anyone though (or scare them away from trying to learn a language that is so incredibly screwed up...).
Yeah, people always get scared of things like this (another one that gets thrown around as being overly complex by English-speakers starting out in Japanese is counters). But in my opinion, things like pronouns and counters are really only trivial issues in a quest to become proficient in Japanese. You can still tell I'm not Japanese by the way I speak/use Japanese, but I feel confident in saying it's not because of my usage of pronouns or counters.
zindryr said:
In any case, you listed 手前 as a first person pronoun? I've never heard it used in the first person sense.
I vaguely remember seeing it used in a novel in the first person myself, but it's really uncommon (as are the majority of the pronouns I have listed there). One good way to get a quick list of first-person pronouns (or second or third person pronouns for that matter) is to go to say, dic.yahoo.co.jp, type in 一人称 (or 二人称 or 三人称) in the search box, set the search options to を解説に含む and 国語, and then run the search. Most of the entries that pop up will be words that, at least in some contexts, are or have been valid pronouns.
des said:
Well only 129 ? Damn I guess I shouldnt start again to learn japanese xD
Well, most of those in the list might as well not exist, as you're chances of running into them in real life is next to zero.
 

Axysses

Registered User
下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
Joined
Jun 18, 2006
Messages
51
Reaction score
0
Re: The Japanese Language

hmmm. i'm better on Kanji cos my second language is chinese and i studied a little Sho in the second term of secondary school so I should know a LITTLE kanji but I am totally clueless to Hiragana and Katakana unless you ask me what is あorアwhich is totally lame. :D Note that Kanji lettering is a mix of Hiragana and 汉字( han zi) but the sounds are completely from Hiragana and one kanji word can make up more than one hiragana letter. :d

What am I talking about. Gosh...
 

NeoShweaty

Manga Editor
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
1,590
Reaction score
20
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Re: The Japanese Language

anyone have a page or something that gets into the specifics of the various dialects of japan?
 

pocketmofo

Translator
中級員 / Chuukyuuin / Member
Joined
Jan 21, 2006
Messages
230
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Re: The Japanese Language

There would be many pages which cover the topic. The best pages, however, will likely be in Japanese. I can give you a few for Nagoya and Mikawa (both in Aichi) as well as Osaka or Kyoto. I'm sure there are others on the board who would be able to cover other areas as well.

When in doubt, Wikipedia for general information (generally not totally riddled with inaccuracies):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Japanese_dialects

Kansai-ben (in general, Wikipedia but likely pretty accurate if basic):

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kansai-ben

Nagoya:

(English Site)

http://mediazone.tcp-net.ad.jp/MISO/EBITENW/NB/

(Japanese Site)

http://www.gctv.ne.jp/~nagoya/nagoyaben.htm

http://ja.wikipedia.org/wiki/名古屋弁

(Mikawa dialect Japanese site)

http://www.sun-inet.or.jp/~massa/word.htm


As for the Nagoya site information, a lot (A LOT) of those words are no longer used. Pretty much the only time you're going to hear someone say "おみゃ~さん" would be if it's an old person talking (or a crazy foreigner experimenting with the language). Other words like でら are still used frequently by people who are very Nagoyan. The same would be true for just about any dialect though, I'd imagine.
 

Nihongaeri

Translator
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
359
Reaction score
112
Age
45
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Re: The Japanese Language

pocketmofo said:
The same would be true for just about any dialect though, I'd imagine.
Yeah... I'm convinced that Osaka-ben has become much less Osakan, just in comparing people my age with people 50 plus. I mean you can listen to some 落語家 and say, "now, *that* is Osakan", but I think that most of the Osakan that you hear on television and coming out of the mouths of younger generations tends to be much more so 共通語 "plus alpha" (as they're so fond of saying in Japan).

But further weakening of regional variation is probably an inevitability with TV and amount of intermingling you have between regions now...
 

abu80

Registered User
初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
Joined
Jun 6, 2006
Messages
17
Reaction score
0
Gender
Male
Country
Malaysia
Re: The Japanese Language

hello...
Im kinda interested in this "Romaji" or the alphabeticise Japanese e.g ohayo gozaimas(is this right???)..
So do yuo have any advise or site or software or e-book or language translator or something???
 

Nihongaeri

Translator
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Jul 7, 2005
Messages
359
Reaction score
112
Age
45
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Re: The Japanese Language

abu80 said:
So do yuo have any advise or site or software or e-book or language translator or something???
If you're asking for an explanation of *how* to romanize Japanese, then there's a general synopsis of some of the common methods available on Wikipedia, which can be found at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romaji
 

karasu

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
455
Reaction score
18
Age
41
Gender
Male
Country
Australia
Re: The Japanese Language

guys.. i need help translating some sentence with kanjis on it :(
i wish i can read kanjis..



and



thanks for the help :p
 

NeoShweaty

Manga Editor
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
1,590
Reaction score
20
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Re: The Japanese Language

perhaps you should give the rest of the page and context so people can translate it better. That is what most ask for when people ask
 

karasu

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
455
Reaction score
18
Age
41
Gender
Male
Country
Australia
Re: The Japanese Language

hm.. ok
i'll upload the page..wait a sec...



here you go :p
 

NeoShweaty

Manga Editor
英雄メンバー / Eiyuu Menbaa / Hero Member
Joined
Apr 13, 2006
Messages
1,590
Reaction score
20
Gender
Male
Country
United States
Re: The Japanese Language

you translate beck? interesting...
 

njt

Last Boss ♪~( ̄。 ̄)
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Administrator
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
4,262
Reaction score
2,130
Age
42
Gender
Male
Country
Japan
Re: The Japanese Language

言葉の通じない国で
迷子になってんだぜ

え~っと
確か

あれ
違うか

here are the things you wanted ;).
I'll let you give it a shot, but about the 違う漢字 the top was different, so I'm not sure if chigau is the right one for it, since the top part is reversed (anyone care to comment?)
 

karasu

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
455
Reaction score
18
Age
41
Gender
Male
Country
Australia
Re: The Japanese Language

Thanks NJT..
hm..here's my translation..please comment :p

In this country where we can't speak the language, we've become a lost child..

E-tto... (what's similar term in english for this? 'huh?' or 'erh..?' ?)
If I'm not mistaken...

Are.. (and this one? 'Eh?')
That's not it?

comments :p
 

5il3nc3r

Registered User
下級員 / Kakyuuin / Jr. Member
Joined
Jul 4, 2006
Messages
66
Reaction score
0
Re: The Japanese Language

I got myself Pimsleur's Japanese Language. There's something like 60-90 lessons, of 30 minutes each for the oral japanese (spoken/heard)as well as books for the written/read part.

Right now I'm sticking with the oral section and although I'm only at, like, lesson 6 or 7, I can understand about 2-5% of what is said in anime ^^; (Of course, I can guess, based on the context and the words I understand to see what they might be saying but I'm not quite there yet.

However, I personally find it a very good way to learn the language as they apply 2 key principles that are proven to help learn something:
1- Principle of Anticipation: Throughout each lesson, the narrator will constantly ask you to answer to what a character is saying, giving you a blank space of time to come up with it, after which another character will say the answer and you can compare weither you had it correctly or not.
2- Graduated Interval Recall: Basically, when you're told something, you tend to forget it after a specific lapse of time. If you ask the student to remember it just before he forgets it, the said lapse of time will lengthen so that it will take even longer to forget it, and right before you tend to forget it again, he'll bring it back, so you freshen up and so on.

I'm not really that good at explaining this, but if you guys want, I could cite the whole example(s) that are in the pimsleur book, explaining those principles.

In short, if you want to learn japanese, consider trying out Pimsleur's method. I personally think it works well.

§ıĿ
 

njt

Last Boss ♪~( ̄。 ̄)
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Administrator
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
4,262
Reaction score
2,130
Age
42
Gender
Male
Country
Japan
Re: The Japanese Language

karasu said:
Thanks NJT..
hm..here's my translation..please comment :p

In this country where we can't speak the language, we've become a lost child..

E-tto... (what's similar term in english for this? 'huh?' or 'erh..?' ?)
If I'm not mistaken...

Are.. (and this one? 'Eh?')
That's not it?

comments :p
ummmmmmmmm

let's continue studying before we translate manga! (unless you're just doing this for fun then we can discuss this trans ;))
 

karasu

Registered User
上級員 / Jyoukuuin / Sr. Member
Joined
Apr 1, 2006
Messages
455
Reaction score
18
Age
41
Gender
Male
Country
Australia
Re: The Japanese Language

well i'm doing it just for fun anyway..
so go ahead.. bash me :p
the first bit.. is it:

a. we've become a lost child in a country where we can't speak the language..
or
b. i don't wanna be a lost child in a country where we can't speak the language..
or
c. none of the above :p
 

njt

Last Boss ♪~( ̄。 ̄)
有名人 / Yuumeijin / Celebrity
Administrator
Joined
Feb 28, 2005
Messages
4,262
Reaction score
2,130
Age
42
Gender
Male
Country
Japan
Re: The Japanese Language

karasu said:
well i'm doing it just for fun anyway..
so go ahead.. bash me :p
the first bit.. is it:

a. we've become a lost child in a country where we can't speak the language..
or
b. i don't wanna be a lost child in a country where we can't speak the language..
or
c. none of the above :p
haha as long as it's for fun then you're cool :D. (That's what I like to see :p)

as for help...
I don't know much about the manga, but I believe he's thinking to himself....

So...

In a country where I can't speak the language I'm becoming lost...
or vice versa
I'm becoming lost in a country where I can't speak the language...

and the bottom part he says...


Yeah... true...

er wait a minute? / on second thought?
 

Zero Blitz

Registered User
初心者/ Shoshinsha / Beginner
Joined
Feb 17, 2006
Messages
9
Reaction score
0
Re: Japanese Learning Resources

You can get a free Japanese teaching program here but it only teaches you about 244 (by my count) of the most common phrases/words.

It seems really useful for free software. There's audio so that you can hear the words you're trying to remember.

It scrolls through the word lists, saying the Japanese word and you to tell it whether you got it right after you reveal the answer and after you get a certain word/phrase correct enough times it notes on the side that you've mastered #/# word/phrases in the list.

That's just the first mode. I haven't tried the others since you get to them once it believes you understand all of the words in a list in Romanji or Kanji (e.g. you can tell that if the card reads 'wakarimashita', it will say 'I understand' when you reveal it).

I do know that in mode two, you need to type the English meaning after seeing the Romanji or Kanji, in mode 3, you see the English term and need to think of it in Romanji/Kanji and say whether you got it right after revealing it then in mode four you type in the Romanji or Kanji.

It sounds good and if you get the paid version (maybe someone knows a way to download it for free?), you get about 1000 words and 250 phrases plus you can add your own lists. I was thinking of buying it...

I wouldn't mind if any of the translators here could download it and tell me how efficient they find it.

By the way, the email address you put in to download it doesn't have to be real as the download link appears on the page after you register.. instead just by email.

Too bad there's nothing on katakana/hiragana in it...
 
Top