Discussion The Ten Commandments

[FKS]

For Reticence, the word used is 沈黙 which means silence (and also inaction).

 

[Siddz1988]

Dunno what's with Zeldris hype train. But he is weaker than Estarossa.
Pre Meliodas training mode death, Escanor> Estarossa > Meliodas > Zeldris. Before Estarossa stopped Revenge Counter, the other commandments had to gang on Meliodas to do any damage.

Had Estarossa not butted in, pretty much the lame commandments would have faced the full force of revenge counter. Zeldris' hype should be kept aside till there is some character development.

Till now Zeldris has been pretty much useless with an exception of taking Meliodas' arm, which Meliodas stole back. Besides that Zeldris got KOED from Escanor, while Estarossa was thoroughly defeated. So till further progress is shown on the Escanor battlefield, Zeldris' should not be hyped.

P.S.. Zeldris is A FUCKING NOOB.

 

[Gallon]

Dunno what's with Zeldris hype train. But he is weaker than Estarossa.
Pre Meliodas training mode death, Escanor> Estarossa > Meliodas > Zeldris. Before Estarossa stopped Revenge Counter, the other commandments had to gang on Meliodas to do any damage.

Had Estarossa not butted in, pretty much the lame commandments would have faced the full force of revenge counter. Zeldris' hype should be kept aside till there is some character development.

Till now Zeldris has been pretty much useless with an exception of taking Meliodas' arm, which Meliodas stole back. Besides that Zeldris got KOED from Escanor, while Estarossa was thoroughly defeated. So till further progress is shown on the Escanor battlefield, Zeldris' should not be hyped.

P.S.. Zeldris is A FUCKING NOOB.

Revenge Counter wouldn't have done anything anyway, since Meliodas had already fallen prey to "Love" as noted by the Demon King. Estarossa knew, so he was the only one who wasn't afraid even a little.

 

[Meliodaf]

Dunno what's with Zeldris hype train. But he is weaker than Estarossa.
Pre Meliodas training mode death, Escanor> Estarossa > Meliodas > Zeldris. Before Estarossa stopped Revenge Counter, the other commandments had to gang on Meliodas to do any damage.

Had Estarossa not butted in, pretty much the lame commandments would have faced the full force of revenge counter. Zeldris' hype should be kept aside till there is some character development.

Till now Zeldris has been pretty much useless with an exception of taking Meliodas' arm, which Meliodas stole back. Besides that Zeldris got KOED from Escanor, while Estarossa was thoroughly defeated. So till further progress is shown on the Escanor battlefield, Zeldris' should not be hyped.

P.S.. Zeldris is A FUCKING NOOB.

Wrong place to discuss this but there is absolutely no reason to believe that Estarossa is stronger. And Estarossa stopping Revenge Counter isn't a testament to his strength, it's a testament to Meliodas' hatred. There is also no reason to believe that Mel wouldn't have shitstomped Estarossa along with the commandments had it not been for his hatred. There's probably a reason Zeldris was the one fighting Meliodas in the past and why he is the commandment of piety.

 

[Siddz1988]

Wrong place to discuss this but there is absolutely no reason to believe that Estarossa is stronger. And Estarossa stopping Revenge Counter isn't a testament to his strength, it's a testament to Meliodas' hatred. There is also no reason to believe that Mel wouldn't have shitstomped Estarossa along with the commandments had it not been for his hatred. There's probably a reason Zeldris was the one fighting Meliodas in the past and why he is the commandment of piety.

I don't recollect Zeldris fighting Meliodas in the past, highlight this chapter or pics for me!

Estarossa stopping revenge counter was at least a testament to his power over the other commandments IMO. I remember the panel where the other commandments were worried when Meliodas released revenge counter only to be diffused by Estarossa.

Escanor's single strike blew away the Zeldris, who had not even fought with Escanor and decided to sucker punch the Sin. At least Estarossa showed could damage Escanor.

Let the manga demonstrate Zeldris' commandment of piety's hax. For now Zeldris doesn't look significant.... And I don't recollect seeing Zeldris in Meliodas fashback, we can only see Chibi Estarossa and Meliodas.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2016 ---

Revenge Counter wouldn't have done anything anyway, since Meliodas had already fallen prey to "Love" as noted by the Demon King. Estarossa knew, so he was the only one who wasn't afraid even a little.

This explanation makes sense, that Meliodas has fallen to Estarossa's commandment, hence he stopped the revenge counter. The other commandments looked scared though.

 

[Meliodaf]

I don't recollect Zeldris fighting Meliodas in the past, highlight this chapter or pics for me!

Estarossa stopping revenge counter was at least a testament to his power over the other commandments IMO. I remember the panel where the other commandments were worried when Meliodas released revenge counter only to be diffused by Estarossa.

Escanor's single strike blew away the Zeldris, who had not even fought with Escanor and decided to sucker punch the Sin. At least Estarossa showed could damage Escanor.

Let the manga demonstrate Zeldris' commandment of piety's hax. For now Zeldris doesn't look significant.... And I don't recollect seeing Zeldris in Meliodas fashback, we can only see Chibi Estarossa and Meliodas.

--- Double Post Merged, Sep 9, 2016, Original Post Date: Sep 9, 2016 ---

This explanation makes sense, that Meliodas has fallen to Estarossa's commandment, hence he stopped the revenge counter. The other commandments looked scared though.

The fight wasn't shown Meliodas brought it up talking to himself after Edinburgh. I would post the panel if I knew how. But still there's no reason to think he's weaker than Estarossa because he didn't fight and Escanor Possibly killing him pretty close to noon with the same attack he may have killed a recently healed Estarossa with is not proof that Estarossa is stronger. Zeldris was the one commanding everybody too. We don't know yet but it looks like he took Meliodas' place and Meliodas was the strongest. But the point is just because we haven't seen Zeldris do much doesn't mean we have evidence that he's weaker than anybody.

 

[Gallon]

This explanation makes sense, that Meliodas has fallen to Estarossa's commandment, hence he stopped the revenge counter. The other commandments looked scared though.

There's probably some sort of "impulse" which is sent to both the holder of the decree and the one who falls prey to it, so he was maybe the only one who could tell. As in, it was a *bing* in his brain when the decree activated, so he went in like a badass.

 

[ShadowHeart]

Could Merlin of been the one to destroy and crush Drole?

 

[Yakkun]

Could Merlin of been the one to destroy and crush Drole?

Based on her feats, yeah, why not. She also has the Balor Eye. And Dolor (I'll keep calling him that because Drole makes zero sense) already lost his eye before he became demonified, so that could have triggered him switching sides later on.

Makes me wonder how that went with him anyway, the guy has future vision. Did he actually know beforehand he would lose and then it became a self-fulfilling prophecy because he was too emotionally devastated to even fight properly? It's kinda weird.

 

[BaseNeptune]

Based on her feats, yeah, why not. She also has the Balor Eye. And Dolor (I'll keep calling him that because Drole makes zero sense) already lost his eye before he became demonified, so that could have triggered him switching sides later on.

Makes me wonder how that went with him anyway, the guy has future vision. Did he actually know beforehand he would lose and then it became a self-fulfilling prophecy because he was too emotionally devastated to even fight properly? It's kinda weird.

Does he have future vision? I thought he could just see into plans and minds. I like to think Estarossa was the one who beat him down and turned him into a demon.

 

[Yakkun]

Does he have future vision? I thought he could just see into plans and minds. I like to think Estarossa was the one who beat him down and turned him into a demon.

He doesn't see clearly. I assume it is similar to Bartra's visions. He has some vague idea what will happen but he can't see elaborate details. He predicted Meliodas would meet a humiliating defeat when he got beaten up by him, then the Commandments came in and bullied Meliodas to death. So I guess he can at least predict the outcome of an event that is in the near future, although I have no idea how that works. Maybe due to his connection with nature and the energy flow in the world or whatever.

 

[ShadowHeart]

Based on her feats, yeah, why not. She also has the Balor Eye. And Dolor (I'll keep calling him that because Drole makes zero sense) already lost his eye before he became demonified, so that could have triggered him switching sides later on.

Makes me wonder how that went with him anyway, the guy has future vision. Did he actually know beforehand he would lose and then it became a self-fulfilling prophecy because he was too emotionally devastated to even fight properly? It's kinda weird.

Really wished Merlin and Doler met at Vaizel.

 

[Yakkun]

Really wished Merlin and Doler met at Vaizel.

I don't think he could've done much unless he goes right on the initiative. Nakaba writes his manga based on typical cliches but in a realistic scenario Merlin could solo most fights by teleporting people to bumfuck nowhere. Sure, the Commandments can fly but what about being teleported right into an ocean deep underwater or into a volcano or whatever? It's casually yet super effective.

Either way, in a physical fight Merlin wouldn't stand a chance but who knows what she got up her sleeve. I doubt unless it is some super hax ability, she could easily kill Dolor with offensive spells like a tornado or fireballs or that laser beam if he has the chance to turn into diamond. But that's all highly hypthetical.

---

As of this chapter it only occured to me how terrifying it must be to fight Gray Road one on one if you are not somehow protected by hax or some other convenient gentic ability or circumstance like a curse. Cursed Chains prevent the target from fleeing, so you have to fight. Gray Road can summon breakable bugs that perish easily, triggering her decree. That means people who just ooze latent power that is not really hax, like Escanor, this is super bad because he could kill the bugs without even wanting to due to his natural heat. Boom, old man, death.

If you by some means manage to avoid any of Gray Road's spawns, she can still take your five senses away, rendering you absolutely immobile. She won't go and kill you after that because hell, that would be stupid as fuck. But she can just pod you and turn you into a demon, making you part of her offspring. Boom, flawless victory plus the demon ranks were strengthened.

Merlin was just a bad match-up but honestly, she is an equally broken Commandment you don't wanna mess with.

 

[ShadowHeart]

I don't think he could've done much unless he goes right on the initiative. Nakaba writes his manga based on typical cliches but in a realistic scenario Merlin could solo most fights by teleporting people to bumfuck nowhere. Sure, the Commandments can fly but what about being teleported right into an ocean deep underwater or into a volcano or whatever? It's casually yet super effective.

Either way, in a physical fight Merlin wouldn't stand a chance but who knows what she got up her sleeve. I doubt unless it is some super hax ability, she could easily kill Dolor with offensive spells like a tornado or fireballs or that laser beam if he has the chance to turn into diamond. But that's all highly hypthetical.

.

What I meant was they just met each to see if Merlin and Doler really know each since she did create one and name 1 of her magical items after him most likely with his real eye. Merlin was still a statue at that point so it would've been an easy win for Doler. But I do think Nakaba kept Merlin out of the Vaizel arc because of her connection to Doler as well as Meliodas situation.

 

[Yakkun]

I keep coming back to this question because it is the most controversial fight in the series so far, at least to me.

Were Dolor and Gloxinia really at full strength when fighting? We know that Zeldris ordered the group to split up and go recover their magic power first. Galan's fight seemed to prove that they all succeeded at that but it doesn't really take into account the differences in subjective levels. Galan has a magic level of 1000. Dolor has one of 14.000. Gloxinia of 47.000 even.

I have read the argument before that Dolor and Gloxinia feasted on the people they drew to the fight festival. But Gloxinia makes a point that the festival is there in the first place to spare them the effort of scrap hunting and instead bringing the juicy powerful souls directly to them.

Spoiler

It is therefore rather unlikely that they were actively hunting for souls prior to this festival nor during its initial stage. The only people who were most likely consumed were the workers that Taizoo was supervising:

Spoiler

They are not all in the panels but as you can see, there aren't a whole lot of workers to begin with. Some dozen or a few dozens at best. Which would have to be divided by two and are only ordinary weak souls with much less power than even low-ranking Holy Knights.

In my opinion that is hardly enough for either of them to replenish their rather high magic levels which are insane compared to Galan's measly values. It sure is enough for them to put up a fight and to display some impressive feats but I don't think that they were at the full extend of their strengths. This could also be supported by Gloxinia's Yggdra Armor breaking shortly after he donned it, since nothing on-panel in the fight supports that Meliodas somehow broke it; neither physically nor with flexing his darkness powers. I think this is simply a case of what Arden explained to Dreyfus - if certain techniques exceed a certain value needed to activate them, they will fail. And I think that the Yggdra Armor might be one of Gloxinia's stronger abilities.

Furthermore, at the end of the fight with Meliodas (if you read that fight as a whole, it is rather fast paced actually. Like, really fucking fast. It is an endless back and forth that should only last a few minutes if you ignore all the talking) Gloxinia heals Merascylla and then admits it was the last time he could use Drop of Life for a while. His magic was depeleted in mere minutes which seems strange for someone of his caliber IF he had truly been at max power.

I wonder if they will show better feats when they appear again in the series because either of them had so much hype about them initially that this entire affair seems just weird.

 

[Demonspeed]

You are right about that, I and many other fans assume they were at full power because of their incredible feats and the PL reveal but if they are not it means their PLs will be much higher at their return. It would not be incoherent, but in this case, how strong do you think it will be? Above Zeldris and Estarossa's PL? NNT is that kind of series but for now it's a bit hard to imagine.

For now I will assume that they were at full power. I can at least say that maybe Dolor was not able to give his all because he lacked a weapon and didn't use any kind of dance, but Gloxinia had his Basquias and was still outmatched, it's possible he has a Release as well but there are no hints.

I talked about the lack of ST- tiers weapons for the TCs since the beginning of this arc, especially since Galan praised Rhitta but so far we have seen nothing like that besides Basquias(and Estarossa's sword maybe?) and some even fight without weapon(Dolor, Derrierie and so on). Nakaba could make them return with weapons, I would accept it and would make sense, but I am sure many fans will scream.

 

[Gallon]

But technically, they fought with what they would at "full power". Gloxinia's 47,000 magic probably takes a lot of time to refill, but even at, say, a 20,000 stat, he would likely be able to use all of his techniques, but he would run out of "stamina" sooner. That being said, unless they had magic powers which take a LOT of magic for one activation (even more than Basquias' various forms, seeing as one release was able to drain King to almost nil, and Gloxinia wasn't fazed by it until he used Basquias for like 10 different forms) and can change the tides in a battle, I don't really think they were lacking anything. But hey, I wouldn't complain if they did have some techniques like these, because it's possible.

 

[oxtopus]

Estarossa confirmed her death and she wasn't part of the TC after the one month timeskip. Seeing how Galan was stoned, she must be dead.

Are you sure about that cause nothing implies merascylla is dead. First of all we know the demons have 7 hearts,ban only removed 5.

Secondly,we also got to know through elaine that merascylla zombies cannot exist without her magic but then,we've
seen zaratras still alive and we never saw elaine dead.

Finally,during the escanor vs estarossa fight,we also got to know through estarossa that mera warned them about escanor and told them about him defeating galan. She likely told them after the meliodas vs Tc battle.

So this means merascylla is most likely still breathing

 

[BasedAnon]

Are you sure about that cause nothing implies merascylla is dead. First of all we know the demons have 7 hearts,ban only removed 5.

Secondly,we also got to know through elaine that merascylla zombies cannot exist without her magic but then,we've
seen zaratras still alive and we never saw elaine dead.

Finally,during the escanor vs estarossa fight,we also got to know through estarossa that mera warned them about escanor and told them about him defeating galan. She likely told them after the meliodas vs Tc battle.

So this means merascylla is most likely still breathing

1. Estarossa said that the highest class of Demons have seven hearts and the only one that was confirmed to have seven was Meliodas. Therefore we can assume that the Demon King's other sons Estarossa and Zeldris (doesn't matter if he's a failed clone or whatever) have seven as well and are "the highest class". This would explain why Esta and Zel are the strongest TC currently and why Mel lead them in the past. One could argue that the TC itself are the best Demons, but seeing how Gray Lord and Fraudrin - Demons who are actually low class shitter - could join because of different reasons makes me think that only the ones directly related to the DK are "the highest class". Estarossa confirming Mera's Death although Ban didn't steal seven hearts supports this thesis. That would mean that Mera only had five hearts OR six if Gloxinia didn't heal the one Ban stole in their previous fight which I doubt. So all in all Estarossa is the one here that made the reader understand that the DK Family is worth more than the rest of the TCs once again. Which means that the other TCs have less than Seven Hearts.

2. I'm also irritated why Elaine wasn't shown dead, but the Zaratras ordeal can be easily explained as his grudge being the thing keeping him alive and Mera's magic isn't needed anymore. Like her making it possible for the Soul's to come back, but the grudge being the thing that actually keeps them alive for eternity. Elaine dying would make sense in that case as she lost her grudge already and was basically running on fuels.

3. Mera arrived with the other TC, so it means they obviously talked about what happened to her before they went to "rescue" Gloxinia and Dolor. Again, she wasn't shown as part of the TC order after the TS, just like Galan.

 

[oxtopus]

1. Estarossa said that the highest class of Demons have seven hearts and the only one that was confirmed to have seven was Meliodas. Therefore we can assume that the Demon King's other sons Estarossa and Zeldris (doesn't matter if he's a failed clone or whatever) have seven as well and are "the highest class". One could argue that the TC itself are the best Demons, but seeing how Gray Lord and Fraudrin, Demons who are actually low class shitter could join because of different reasons, makes me think that only the ones directly related to the DK are "the highest class". Estarossa confirming Mera's Death although Ban didn't steal seven hearts supports this thesis. So all in all Estarossa is the one here that made the reader understand that the DK Family is worth more than the rest of the TCs once again. Which means that the other TCs have less than Seven Hearts.

2. I'm also irritated why Elaine wasn't shown dead, but the Zaratras ordeal can be easily explained as his grudge being the thing keeping him alive and Mera's magic isn't needed anymore. Like her making it possible for the Soul's to come back, but the grudge being the thing that actually keeps them alive for eternity. Elaine dying would make sense in that case as she lost her grudge already and was basically running on fuels.

3. Mera arrived with the other TC, so it means they obviously talked about what happened to her before they went to "rescue" Gloxinia and Dolor. Again, she wasn't shown as part of the TC order after the TS, just like Galan.

1. There's nothing to Base estarossa and his family being the only ones with seven hearts on. Estarossa said superior demons have 7 hearts,the Tc are the most superior demons,so I dunno why mera wouldn't have 7 hearts. Btw Fraudrin is a substitute and graylord is a mutation from an expiriment.

2. I dunno about the grudge thing,all I know is mera said magic disappears when the caster dies. Merascylla magic is the one keeping her zombies alive and that's a fact known when elaine said she's alive because merascylla is alive.

3. Yes she arrived with them but all of them came from separate locations before arriving in vaizel and if she already told them about escanor and galan situation before arriving in vaizel then her explanation to estarossa for why she wanted to kill meliodas was unneccesary.