Theory Theory about the National Treasure of the Tenryuubito

[Hannibal Psyche]

Doflamingo also said he would "use" the National Treasure... by this, he meant exchanging bodies with a living person?

That would be a crappy twist.

You do know there's something called "using people".

If the National Treasure is a person, he is literally using a person.

A crappy twist is an opinion, therefore it's irrelevant what you think about it. Facts don't change just because you have negative opinions about them.

There's nothing odd about that. It happens every day.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Jan 3, 2022 ---

Someone remembers, or keep track of history.

Yes, an entire nation was wiped out and you think few people will be able to just pass on history when the Ds spread into different places from East, West, South, North Blue and the Grand Line?

You think a nation that separated and fled after being destroyed would individually be able to pass on their history?

The entire reason they made Poneglyphs was because they wouldn't be able to pass on history because they were destroyed and separated.

Your reasoning makes no sense.

1 person, even a few people cannot pass on history to an entire nation. Again, your reasoning, it's non-existent here.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 3, 2022 ---

It's like you're not aware of what happened to Ohara.

Do you know why they tried to save the books? because information from person to person is pretty much like Chinese whispers. It will eventually get lost. Books don't change, they hold information and the information is reliable as long as the book is in good condition to be read.

If Robin died and another kid from Ohara survived, the history of Ohara would be completely lost. No one would know about it once a few decades had gone by. Ohara is lucky they have a Nico Robin who is a genius that can remember everything and is well educated on history.

History and Information doesn't just get passed on as easily as you think.

Hell, even languages get lost through time. It's not like "LATIN" people were wiped out. Knowledge just got lost. Only about 1% if not less are still capable of speaking latin. The language is regarded as a dead language.
If languages can get lost, so can history. Has nothing to do with wiped memory, that's just a really bad logic.

How did Robin even learn what she knows? From Books, not from people. Once books are lost, information pretty much is lost.

People can learn a new language, and if they don't speak it often enough, they lose the ability to speak that language.

If history is not taught, it will get lost. This theory really makes no sense at all.

 

[Fox666]

You do know there's something called "using people".

If the National Treasure is a person, he is literally using a person.

A crappy twist is an opinion, therefore it's irrelevant what you think about it. Facts don't change just because you have negative opinions about them.

There's nothing odd about that. It happens every day.

But that makes no sense based on what Doflamingo said...

He returned to Mary Geoise, around the age of 10. Then, according to himself, if he had the power of the Ope Ope no Mi on his hand that day, he would be able to use the Nationa Treasure to control the world

By this, he meant that by the age of 10, he would have someone else with the Ope Ope no Mi to exchange personality between him and Im?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

But that makes no sense based on what Doflamingo said...

He returned to Mary Geoise, around the age of 10. Then, according to himself, if he had the power of the Ope Ope no Mi on his hand that day, he would be able to use the Nationa Treasure to control the world

By this, he meant that by the age of 10, he would have someone else with the Ope Ope no Mi to exchange personality between him and Im?

It makes sense.

You are just choosing not to be logical.

It looks like you're not aware Joker already had subordinates before he killed his father and took his head to Mariejoa:

1. Trebol
2. Vergo
3. Diamanta
4. Pika

All he'd have to do is swap IM's personality with anybody, with anyone of his subordinates, and he'd have control of the world by using IM's body. Joker's subordinates are entirely loyal to him.

Not sure how you can claim this doesn't make sense.

 

[Fox666]

Doflamingo went to Mary Geoise all by himself:

Rosinante was not with him either, since he meet Sengoku after his father's death (chapter 767)

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Doflamingo went to Mary Geoise all by himself:

Rosinante was not with him either, since he meet Sengoku after his father's death (chapter 767)

Actually, we're both wrong about Joker's plan.

Joker never actually tried to get the Ope Ope no Mi until he was an adult.

He never knew about the Ope Ope no Mi at the age of 10. He knew about it after.

He was going to use the Ope Ope no Mi on Rocinante and use that to take advantage of IM.

When Joker said "ON THAT DAY", he meant the day he went to Swallow Island to get the fruit. Not a reference to when he was 10.

So, it does make complete sense.

• He was going to give the fruit to Rocinante or a trusted subordinate to eat.

To probably swap places with IM and acquire Immortality.

 

[Fox666]

When Joker said "ON THAT DAY", he meant the day he went to Swallow Island to get the fruit. Not a reference to when he was 10.

Oh, that's very interesting. It does creates a hole in my theory, that the Ope Ope no Mi was lost 29 years ago. It's only known to have been out of the government hands for at last 13 years.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Oh, that's very interesting. It does creates a hole in my theory, that the Ope Ope no Mi was lost 29 years ago. It's only known to have been out of the government hands for at last 13 years.

I think the WG probably knew about its powers for the longest time, I guess they just didn't know where it was since the last user died. Even the seller, X Drake's father knew its value, so I'm pretty sure the WG would know more of its powers. They were willing to spend 5 billion beries just to acquire it after all.

I think Joker just learned of its powers at some point after he fled Mariejoa.

 

[Fox666]

I think the WG probably knew about its powers for the longest time, I guess they just didn't know where it was since the last user died. Even the seller, X Drake's father knew its value, so I'm pretty sure the WG would know more of its powers. They were willing to spend 5 billion beries just to acquire it after all.

I think Joker just learned of its powers at some point after he fled Mariejoa.

From what I could find, I find it hard to believe Doflamingo wants to exchange bodies with Im.


From what I can attest, the Nationa Treasure has the supernatural ability to control the world, and it can only be used by someone with eternal youth.


According to the Vivre Card, the National Treasure "sleeps deep within Mary Geoise". That doesn't seem to describe a person, but would match the giant hat in the freezes.

While Doflamingo briefly mentions exchanging bodies (or personalities) as one of the Ope Ope no Mi, he's doesn't seem interested at all in that ability.

Doflamingo tried to persuade Law into giving him eternal youth:

According to Rosinante, Doflamingo was after eternal youth, and planned on using him for that:

Considering the user would die after using the eternal youth operation, he would loose the Ope Ope no Mi.


And Doflamingo doesn't know how to extract a Devil Fruit from a dead body.

It's ridiculous for Doflamingo to ask Law to give him eternal youth, it's something Law would never do. That means Doflamingo was desperate for Law to do it. if he knew how to extract the fruit from his body, he would have just killed him.

And of course, Doflamingo "killed" Law anyway, and ignored his body. Law's body was irrelevant, and Doflamingo didn't even realized Law swapped with another body before being shot.

Doflamingo already has a subordinate with eternal youth that is Sugar. That's too much of a big coinscidence.

Unless, of course, Sugar was Doflamingo's Plan B.

The existence of the National Treasure would "shake the world".

This secret alone is enough for Doflamingo to have full control over the Tenryuubito:

The Vivre Card also says that, at some point after his father's death, Doflamingo experienced something that made him laugh maniacally no matter the situation.

While it's not specific what it is, the only thing I can think of is Doflamingo discovering the National Treasure.

Would revealing Im's existence have this effect? It sure would make Morgans exclaim "This is big news!", but shake the world? Make the Tenryuubito submissive? Change Doflamingo's personality?

In the world of One Piece, politics is something distant for the people. The Tenryuubito are complete dipshits, and the population absolutely hate them. But nations are forced to tolerate the Tenryuubito, they need the protection of the World Government against pirates. Would people really care much if it's 20 families or 1 people behind the World Government?

There must be something bigger behind it. Compare to how Doflamingo used Sugar's power to control Dressrosa. Something like that in a global scale would surely shake the world.


Lastly, this is One Piece. Of course the Tenryuubito are using some supernatural ability to control the world. Crocodile, Enel, Doflamingo... they all used supernatural abilities to rule. Besides, those who call themselves gods always have some godly power, until Luffy puts them in their place.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

From what I can attest, the Nationa Treasure has the supernatural ability to control the world, and it can only be used

by someone with eternal youth.

Instead of addressing every point, address this one first.

Joker never specified what part of the Ope Ope no Mi the National Treasure required.

Therefore, you can't say Joker said it requires Immortality.

Otherwise, can you show where he said that immortality is needed for the National Treasure to be used?

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2022, Original Post Date: Jan 5, 2022 ---

According to the Vivre Card, the National Treasure "sleeps deep within Mary Geoise". That doesn't seem to describe a

person, but would match the giant hat in the freezes.

Second point.

Sleeps within simply means Lives in Mariejois.

It doesn't specify what it's describing other than it's a location.

Both Objects and People can sleep/live in Mariejois.

National Treasure of Japan lives in Tokyo. Could be an item or a person, so this point of yours here doesn't really add up.

 

[Fox666]

Instead of addressing every point, address this one first.

Joker never specified what part of the Ope Ope no Mi the National Treasure required.

Therefore, you can't say Joker said it requires Immortality.

Otherwise, can you show where he said that immortality is needed for the National Treasure to be used?

Doflamingo said with the Ope Ope no Mi he could use the National Treasure. And he's willing to "throw way" the Ope Ope no Mi to give himself eternal youth.

I assume the eternal youth is necessary to use the National Treasure...

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Doflamingo tried to persuade Law into giving him eternal youth:

According to Corazón, Doflamingo was after eternal youth, and planned on using him for that:

Consiering the user would die after using the eternal youth operation, he would loose the Ope Ope no Mi.


And Doflamingo doesn't know how to extract a Devil Fruit from a dead body.

It's ridiculous for Doflamingo to ask Law to give him eternal youth, it's something Law would never do. That means

Doflamingo was desperate for Law to do it. if he knew how to extract the fruit from his body, he would have just killed

him.

And of course, Doflamingo "killed" Law anyway, and ignored his body. Law's body was irrelevant, and Doflamingo didn't

even realized Law swapped with another body before being shot.

Lastly, Doflamingo already has a subordinate with eternal youth that is Sugar. That's too much of a big coinscidence.

Of course he tried to acquire immortality from Law.

He knows Law hates him and isn't loyal to him. The only thing he can get out of Law is immortality at best.

And whoever ate the Ope Ope no Mi was going to die either way. Doesn't mean he never intended to use immortality. Personality swaps can still occur before immortality.

You have a bias, you simply don't want to acknowledge that IM could be the National Treasure when factually:

• National Treasures can be People.
• National Treasure controls the world - IM does.
• National Treasure being revealed would shock the world - World doesn't believe there's a king of the world, revealing IM would make countries leave the World Government.

The Vivre Card also says that, at some point after his father's death, Doflamingo experienced something that made him

laugh maniacally no matter the situation.

While it's not specific what it is, the only thing I can think of is Doflamingo discovering the National Treasure.

This really has nothing to do with National Treasures.

He killed his father and begun to laugh. Very likely mental shock. If you listen to his monologues, he's well aware about the irony of the world. The world to him is a joke, so he laughs at the irony of it which makes sense.

The existence of the National Treasure would "shake the world".

This secret alone is enough for Doflamingo to have full control over the Tenryuubito:

The world government was formed 800 years ago. They said there is no 1 king of the world, and that they are a democracy. They all come together at the summit to decide the decisions and directions the world takes.

You really think that if it came to light that their opinions didn't matter, and there was actually a king of the world... that wouldn't shake the entire world?? Let's be honest, One Piece is about power and control, and you maintain power and control through manipulation and strength. It's much easier controlling with manipulation and lies than with force.
Once you can't use manipulation and lies, you have to resort to force, and that makes holding on to power extremely difficult. And then Revolutions happen. And then they lose power.

IM is the only thing that literally fits the description of the National Treasure.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 5, 2022, Original Post Date: Jan 5, 2022 ---

Doflamingo said with the Ope Ope no Mi he could use the National Treasure. And he's willing to "throw way" the Ope Ope no Mi to give himself eternal youth.

I assume the eternal youth is necessary to use the National Treasure...

Okay, so you're making assumptions that fit your theory.

He never said nor indicated he's willing to throw it away.

He just knows the only thing he can get out of it from Law is immortality.

Would you really trust someone that hated you.. to cook you food? get you a glass of water? to deposit your money in the bank? No way Joker could ask Law to swap personalities with IM for example, we know Law wouldn't do it if it'd make Joker the king of the world.

Law has no loyalty to him. Only reason he was giving Rocinante in the first place was because Rocinante was someone he thought was 100% loyal to him.

 

[Fox666]

I noticed something interesting

Doflamingo said to Law that D being God's natural enemy is a superstition

This would fit my theory, that being D has a more practical effect (and Doflamingo knows)

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I noticed something interesting

Doflamingo said to Law that D being God's natural enemy is a superstition

This would fit my theory, that being D has a more practical effect (and Doflamingo knows)

You're too focused on trying to prove your theory than looking for the truth.

Doflamingo is wrong.

The superstition is actually true.

D's have the ability to read the Poneglyph, VOAT, and taking down the Tenryuubito.

What happened during the Dressrosa arc? He got exactly what he didn't see coming from the Ds... he got defeated.

Reason Joker got defeated is because of Superstition, destiny, prophecy.

 

[Fox666]

> post stuff about theory on theory thread
> Habbinal Psyche: you are too focused on proving theory

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

> post stuff about theory on theory thread
> Habbinal Psyche: you are too focused on proving theory

My point is if you have to:

1. Misinterpret things to make your theory look possible.
2. Deny any logical arguments against it essentially.

Then, there's something wrong with the theory.

If a theory is likely to be true, when you try to debunk it, it would pretty much be impossible or very difficult at the very least. This theory is flawed because there's no proof or evidence to back it up.

 

[Diivil]

> post stuff about theory on theory thread
> Habbinal Psyche: you are too focused on proving theory

In this case, Hannibal is most likely right.


Let's say that the Straw Hat (or another object) is the national treasure, and it has some supernatural powers.

How would that be any different than Devil Fruits? Or any of the other whacky phenomenons that happens in the One Piece world?

A regular object exhibiting supernatural powers is not something that would shake / shock the world (or w.e the term that was used) simply because that type of stuff is actually common place.

So, a magical Straw Hat isn't going to shock the world any more than any of the whacky overpowered Devil Fruits we have seen.

There is only a single thing that would. The only "absolute" in this world is the fact that there are 20 kings who govern the world, and none of them can ever sit on the throne. There is no single person who rules the world.

Any of the 20 Kings becoming aware of Im-sama's existence would shake the foundation of the world, for the same reason that the WG doesn't want anyone to know about the Void Century.

This makes it so that the single entity that controls the Gorosei, IM-sama, is a sacred treasure that must never be seen by anyone else.

Now, maybe Oda has some other whacky explanation in mind, but from everything we know so far, it has to be IM.

Whacky world-breaking supernatural objects are common in this world. A single person ruling the world from the shadow is not.

 

[grey matter]

Who do you all think Imu is?

Is he a OG Tenryubito? Or was he the power behind the 20 OG Tenryubitos who joined forced to overthrow the great kingdom?

 

[Fox666]

Let's say that the Straw Hat (or another object) is the national treasure, and it has some supernatural powers.

How would that be any different than Devil Fruits? Or any of the other whacky phenomenons that happens in the One Piece world?

A regular object exhibiting supernatural powers is not something that would shake / shock the world (or w.e the term that was used) simply because that type of stuff is actually common place.

So, a magical Straw Hat isn't going to shock the world any more than any of the whacky overpowered Devil Fruits we have seen.

That's a good question.

But isn't the same thing true for the Ancient Weapons, for example? Supposedly they are a big deal, but are they different from any wacky ability?

The only difference would be the scale. And the National Treasure has the power to affect people world-wide.

Who do you all think Imu is?

Is he a OG Tenryubito? Or was he the power behind the 20 OG Tenryubitos who joined forced to overthrow the great kingdom?

Dunno. But if they have eternal youth, it could be the person who created the World Government 800 years ago.

 

[Diivil]

That's a good question.

But isn't the same thing true for the Ancient Weapons, for example? Supposedly they are a big deal, but are they different from any wacky ability?

The only difference would be the scale. And the National Treasure has the power to affect people world-wide.

Their existence being made public wouldn't shake the world. It would just be extremely dangerous because of the destruction they are capable of.

In the same manner that Whitebeard with the power of the Gura-Gura No Mi has the potential to destroy the world, yet it's existence in of itself isn't shocking or alters the "absolute" hierarchy of the world.

Same with the Sea Kings. They could all one day decide to leave the Calm Belt to go terrorize the Grandline / New World. But could never alter it's hierarchy the way that IM-sama's existence being made public would.

Regardless of the scale of destruction and how easily you can cause it, the world is simply too big to be able to be "destroyed"

Yet a single entity rules over that world. That is the number one thing that the 20 kings would never accept, hence the need to keep it hidden.

 

[Fox666]

Their existence being made public wouldn't shake the world. It would just be extremely dangerous because of the destruction they are capable of.

In the same manner that Whitebeard with the power of the Gura-Gura No Mi has the potential to destroy the world, yet it's existence in of itself isn't shocking or alters the "absolute" hierarchy of the world.

Same with the Sea Kings. They could all one day decide to leave the Calm Belt to go terrorize the Grandline / New World. But could never alter it's hierarchy the way that IM-sama's existence being made public would.

Regardless of the scale of destruction and how easily you can cause it, the world is simply too big to be able to be "destroyed"

Yet a single entity rules over that world. That is the number one thing that the 20 kings would never accept, hence the need to keep it hidden.

From what we know of One Piece world, the World Government having an Ancient Weapon would definitely shake the world

Perhaps, being realistic people in One Piece world should be desensitized by anything by this point. But that's not important for this discussion


My biggest problem with Im being the National Treasure is from a narrative perspective.

We didn't knew how the political system of the world worked until the Levely arc, we didn't knew that the 20 families having equal power was important. Im was revealed at the same time.

The National Treasure was mentioned 140 chapters earlier. I don't think it was something impossible for the readers to figure.


That would be a cheap trick for the author, and not One Piece style at all.

For example, the reveal of Poseidon's power was huge because we knew about the Sea Kings and the Calm Belt and how important they are for the story as a whole. If these were only explained right before Poseidon was revealed, it wouldn't have much impact.


We shouldn't ask how Im's existence could shock the world, but why it's a secret in the first place. And the reason is most likely because Im has eternal youth, and that's the key to using the National Treasure. For that reason, Im cannot be a public figure.