Discussion Thoughts about the : Chimera ant arc

[apellon]

*Discussion may contain some spoilers // respect other people opinion// it is a open conversation*

1-Are you excited for this new arc ?

2-what did you think about this arc ? what did u like or not like?


1-Chimera ant arc is a huge arc , the longest so far ... Almost 1/3 of the manga chapters .
But personnaly i found it to be the worst arc of togashi so far...

-the power lvls are all over the place to the point that its hard to follow whats going on ... This is something that never happened before in hxh , since usually hxh is well balanced and thought.Yet in this arc things going crasy.. (Lets go super sayan cause the king is freezer.)
-the ants : its a very generic plot in essence , some kind of monster appears and you have to save the world ..
Design/art : almost no backgroud, and weird "monster" designs i mean.. insects really? -_- and an octopus head ?...
Also i feel bad foe Gon "new ability" , i mean togashi gabe him such an ugly power, kind of messed up gon style along the way, on the other hand killua new abilities are pretty awesome.
-in term of scenario, it also felt short in that area.. Lot dragging unuseful talks in this arc..
So to be honnest it left a weird taste in My mouth ..... It wasnt baaddd i mean hxh is always awesome , but it wasnt what i expected.

That said , the end is pretty cool, and how it conclude has a very interesting impacts on the hxh world.... the perspective of new arcs have never been better...this chairman arc soud promising, if it is ever continued.

2-even if i didnt enjoy it much , i m still excited and interested in
Watching this arc .. I wonder if animated, it will comeout better ...

 

[REN KOUEN]

im excited about the anime, i am only on chapter 206 of the manga (i didnt get to read any last night or today ) but it seems epic so far, maybe even as epic as yorknew

 

[Spectrum]

*Discussion may contain some spoilers*

1-Are you excited for this new arc ?

2-what did you think about this arc ?


1-Chimera ant arc is a huge arc , the longest so far ... Almost 1/3 of the manga chapters .
But personnaly i found it to be the worst arc of togashi so far...

-the power lvls are all over the place to the point that its hard to follow whats going on ... This is something that never happened before in hxh , since usually hxh is well balanced and thought.Yet in this arc things going crasy.. (Lets go super sayan cause the king is freezer.)
-the ants : its a very generic plot in essence , some kind of monster appears and you have to save the world ..
Design/art : almost no backgroud, and weird "monster" designs i mean.. insects really? -_- and an octopus head ?...
Also i feel bad foe Gon "new ability" , i mean togashi gabe him such an ugly power, kind of messed up gon style along the way, on the other hand killua new abilities are pretty awesome.
-in term of scenario, it also felt short in that area.. Lot dragging unuseful talks in this arc..
So to be honnest it left a weird taste in My mouth ..... It wasnt baaddd i mean hxh is always awesome , but it wasnt what i expected.

That said , the end is pretty cool, and how it conclude has a very interesting impacts on the hxh world.... the perspective of new arcs have never been better...this chairman arc soud promising, if it is ever continued.

2-even if i didnt enjoy it much , i m still excited and interested in
Watching this arc .. I wonder if animated, it will comeout better ...

Agreed.

I think Ants arc is the worst for the same reasons, but i'm still interested in watching this arc... maybe because it's a brand new arc in the anime.

 

[lasso]

Don't forget, the hiatus killed this arc, also not going as other shounen has done before, the main protagonist doesn't power up to beat the main villian.

I think watching it in the anime will help this arc's case, especially from the animation and design aspects, Togashi i think was sometimes drawing with his toes in some chapters -_-", it will seem slow at first until the palace invasion which i think you can't complain about it.

 

[xScar]

If you think the art in the arc is bad, please actually purchase the manga to read it instead of viewing 5 year-old Edited Mangas. It annoys me to no end when people say the art sucks when all they've done is illegally read inferior copies of the series and it's tainted their perception of it.

And you're really going to criticize the design? The Chimera Ant arc has an even larger cast than the Hunter Exam and every single character is unique in every way imaginable. Personality, attacks, physical appearance, etc. The world of Hunter x Hunter is fully of creatures, which should be evident from the beginning of the series. (I think Madhouse particularly pointing out all the monsters during the Hunter Exam really helped it reminding/illustrating that).

"(Lets go super sayan cause the king is freezer.)"
Because Gon even faces Meruem? I think this point alone sets this whole arc outside of the generic shonen plots. The main character doesn't even go up against the "bad guy." Not even once. Gon's transformation is not even about "leveling up." His transformation is literally a transformation. Over the series you see this giddy kid constantly get hit in the face with reality, yet stays manically strong through it all. After running around trying to save someone not only dear to himself, but also someone close to his father, when Pitou tells Gon that Kite is dead and cannot be saved, Gon freaking loses it. Yes, he wants to murder Pitou in this instant, but this transformation is not purely to defeat the enemy. It's a release of Gon's world falling apart around him. He's unable to keep it together as he usually does, especially since Killua is not around.

I haven't read the Ant arc since Viz's original release of it, so I'm a bit hazy on the specifics (plus I wasn't reading it in any analytic way at the time either) -- so I'm going to stop here for now. If I ever do get to re-reading it, I feel as though it would be really easy to write a critical essay on the Ant arc. It has so much to offer and it really tears me apart when people are ignorant of it.

 

[futurefrog]

I think it is the best arc in the series and disagree with everything in OP

 

[ContractHunterMEMO]

I think it is the best arc in the series and disagree with everything in OP

Completely agree with you. I'll just touch upon a few points the OP made:

Spoiler

"its a very generic plot in essence , some kind of monster appears and you have to save the world".

Assuming you've read the manga from the beginning, one would assume that you would know about Togashi's consisting trope-breaking plot points (sorry if that was worded awkwardly!). Togashi introduces this monster that obviously overpowers anything and anyone we've known about thus far. The King could've easily been a generic super villain, but what about Komugi's introduction to the plot? The complexity between the ants and their past lives/memories? Why was Gyro (someone who's so mysterious yet developed far more than the average hxh/shounen character) introduced in the arc?

These questions make the reader think, or at least did so in my personal experience while reading the arc. I respect the OP's opinions and I may know where he's coming from, but the points made aren't done so in more depth to yield a more compelling argument. I can elaborate more, but I feel that these points have been gone over by other users in related threads, so I'll spare the redundancy for now at least.

 

[apellon]

If you think the art in the arc is bad, please actually purchase the manga to read it instead of viewing 5 year-old Edited Mangas. It annoys me to no end when people say the art sucks when all they've done is illegally read inferior copies of the series and it's tainted their perception of it.

And you're really going to criticize the design? The Chimera Ant arc has an even larger cast than the Hunter Exam and every single character is unique in every way imaginable. Personality, attacks, physical appearance, etc. The world of Hunter x Hunter is fully of creatures, which should be evident from the beginning of the series. (I think Madhouse particularly pointing out all the monsters during the Hunter Exam really helped it reminding/illustrating that).

"(Lets go super sayan cause the king is freezer.)"
Because Gon even faces Meruem? I think this point alone sets this whole arc outside of the generic shonen plots. The main character doesn't even go up against the "bad guy." Not even once. Gon's transformation is not even about "leveling up." His transformation is literally a transformation. Over the series you see this giddy kid constantly get hit in the face with reality, yet stays manically strong through it all. After running around trying to save someone not only dear to himself, but also someone close to his father, when Pitou tells Gon that Kite is dead and cannot be saved, Gon freaking loses it. Yes, he wants to murder Pitou in this instant, but this transformation is not purely to defeat the enemy. It's a release of Gon's world falling apart around him. He's unable to keep it together as he usually does, especially since Killua is not around.

I haven't read the Ant arc since Viz's original release of it, so I'm a bit hazy on the specifics (plus I wasn't reading it in any analytic way at the time either) -- so I'm going to stop here for now. If I ever do get to re-reading it, I feel as though it would be really easy to write a critical essay on the Ant arc. It has so much to offer and it really tears me apart when people are ignorant of it.

First of, why would you believe that anyone not agreeing with you is a ignorant internet scammer ? Are u the only worthy people here? So that you know i bought , yes in a store, over 12 years ago my first hxh book , volume 6... Am i qualified enough ? Yet i still think this arc was the worst on in the serie.
Do i think it was horrible ? No ofcourse not, its hxh , one of the best manga ever written ...

Now that aside, i respect ur opinion , and in fact i do agree with you : gon not facing the king is brilliant , in Fact i never said it wasnt so .. I really enjoyed the end wich leads to many bew possibilites and the overall darker side of the plot ... but i personaly think that the more people is not always the best, i rather have quality over quantity . many chapters were not necessary and ending up with a zoo like event , an octopus sniper , and pretty much a copy paste of freezer, is a good indication that togashi overstrecth himself a little too much... Same for gon becoming biscuit like... it was a little disconcerting to me. i would have rather seen him transform some other way ... now thats my opinion..

Thanks for ur input
Peace

 

[Spectrum]

First of, why would you believe that anyone not agreeing with you is a ignorant internet scammer ? Are u the only worthy people here? So that you know i bought , yes in a store, over 12 years ago my first hxh book , volume 6... Am i qualified enough ? Yet i still think this arc was the worst on in the serie.
Do i think it was horrible ? No ofcourse not, its hxh , one of the best manga ever written ...

Now that aside, i respect ur opinion , and in fact i do agree with you : gon not facing the king is brilliant , in Fact i never said it wasnt so .. I really enjoyed the end wich leads to many bew possibilites and the overall darker side of the plot ... but i personaly think that the more people is not always the best, i rather have quality over quantity . many chapters were not necessary and ending up with a zoo like event , an octopus sniper , and pretty much a copy paste of freezer, is a good indication that togashi overstrecth himself a little too much... Same for gon becoming biscuit like... it was a little disconcerting to me. i would have rather seen him transform some other way ... now thats my opinion..

Thanks for ur input
Peace

Exactly!

I can't stand this arc, it's totally opposite to the others arcs... like i said before in another discussion, this arc is kinda DB's history, demigods that nobody can beat, then a superpower shows up from somewhere and the world can be saved again. HxH's history is different for me.

 

[xScar]

First of, why would you believe that anyone not agreeing with you is a ignorant internet scammer ? Are u the only worthy people here? So that you know i bought , yes in a store, over 12 years ago my first hxh book , volume 6... Am i qualified enough ? Yet i still think this arc was the worst on in the serie.
Do i think it was horrible ? No ofcourse not, its hxh , one of the best manga ever written ...

Now that aside, i respect ur opinion , and in fact i do agree with you : gon not facing the king is brilliant , in Fact i never said it wasnt so .. I really enjoyed the end wich leads to many bew possibilites and the overall darker side of the plot ... but i personaly think that the more people is not always the best, i rather have quality over quantity . many chapters were not necessary and ending up with a zoo like event , an octopus sniper , and pretty much a copy paste of freezer, is a good indication that togashi overstrecth himself a little too much... Same for gon becoming biscuit like... it was a little disconcerting to me. i would have rather seen him transform some other way ... now thats my opinion..

Thanks for ur input
Peace

I never called anyone a scammer, especially those who disagree with me. However, the majority of the time people read the Ant arc through Edited Mangas and then thrash Togashi for having terrible art throughout the whole arc. That was my only point with that.

Randomly pulling a page for comparison:

Spoiler

When you said "almost no backgroud," I took that as an attack at the art. And even if you are talking about characters, I'm not sure how that's accurate either.

Could you go into detail on how you don't think there's "quality" in the characters outside of just listing that there's an octopus character or someone who looks like Frieza? It's hard for me to see how they are not characterized as well as any other secondary character.

 

[GingFuriksu]

I think its the best written arc in terms of themes, has the best fights, has one of the best Shonen villains ever, and has the best character development for Gon and Killua.

 

[apellon]

I never called anyone a scammer, especially those who disagree with me. However, the majority of the time people read the Ant arc through Edited Mangas and then thrash Togashi for having terrible art throughout the whole arc. That was my only point with that.

Randomly pulling a page for comparison:

Spoiler

When you said "almost no backgroud," I took that as an attack at the art. And even if you are talking about characters, I'm not sure how that's accurate either.

Could you go into detail on how you don't think theirs "quality" in the characters outside of just listing that there's an octopus character or someone who looks like Frieza? It's hard for me to see how they are not characterized as well as any other secondary character.

You kind of did indirectly in ur previous message bro ahah but dont worry i really dont mind , you are chill anyway since you read hxh ! .. But i will i dont have time right now , got a exam on heart ischemia and Tx tomorrkw and im writing through my iphone so ill answer later ... But , im not talking about the art itself , i m talking about the concept art aroubd this arc and gow the charachter turned out to be .. But ill get u back on that .

 

[ContractHunterMEMO]

Exactly!

I can't stand this arc, it's totally opposite to the others arcs... like i said before in another discussion, this arc is kinda DB's history, demigods that nobody can beat, then a superpower shows up from somewhere and the world can be saved again. HxH's history is different for me.

This is probably what Togashi wants the reader to think; he wants the audience to contemplate whether or not this will be like DB or other shounen with villains of impeccable strength and power. Then something happens in the plot (not going into specifics for anime-only watchers) that actually adds depth to characters/villains that we wouldn't think twice of attributing to. He's deconstructing a trope, or a cliche in manga as some sort of mutiny to that archetype. He's trying to convey a message to not just the audience, but to other shounen series as well. This is one of the reasons, IMO, why Togashi is one of the best manga authors and why it makes this arc something that more than meets the eye.

 

[Mikisi]

[quote="Spectrum]Exactly!

I can't stand this arc, it's totally opposite to the others arcs... like i said before in another discussion, this arc is kinda DB's history, demigods that nobody can beat, then a superpower shows up from somewhere and the world can be saved again. HxH's history is different for me.[/quote]
What the, what the? Only Royal Family is demigods, and nobody can defeat them. Pouf, Youpi and Meruem dead beacuse of poison, and Pitou dead beacuse of Gon power-up, but Togashi don't even have chance to explain that, HxH isn't over, just wait. And every arc in HxH have different history. Hunter Exam is adventurous, without superpowers; Heavens Arena is just fighting (and this arc is more like DB than CA imo) Yorknew is dark, without many battles, action and with good characters, GI is fun, lighthearded, and CA is tragic, sad, with many LOGICAL battles, with great written history, characters development, great main viliian and with ONE unexplained event.

 

[Cinnabar]

Hoo boy. It's this topic.

My personal take on this:

Spoiler

> Yes, I am excited for this arc.

> I think the Ant arc isn't perfect, and it has its own flaws. But it also has its own merits. It is a thematically powerful arc, but it's not the arc that would please everyone (Yorknew fits that category more, it seems).

> I felt disgusted and sad and impatient. But that's okay with me. (Just to be clear, I felt positive emotions too.)

> The power balance doesn't ruin the story, but Togashi sure is pushing the boundaries here. The consequences it has (shown in the Election arc) makes me question the power balance slightly, but I'm willing to accept it for what it is for now. That is, the limit of [my suspension of disbelief] as [the power balance] progresses through the story slowly diminishes. But that is not to say it's completely gone. I can still accept these story conditions for now, but I will find it hard to believe if Gon can pull that stunt again, or if Alluka shifts the balance too much without good explanation.

> I don't think the plot has to be 'original' or 'different' to be good. Generic != bad. It's why people love the classic plots (boy meets girl, save the world plot, growing up stories, etc.); it's how you present them and make them your own that matters. And I think most of you will agree that no one can do the Ant arc quite like Togashi could.

> I like how Gon doesn't get fancy in his transformation, and that he looks kind of ridiculous and sad instead of cool in his adult form. Though I was pretty startled at first, and I didn't quite know what to think of it. But someone said something in the forum (can't remember who or what) that made me appreciate how not-awesome Gon looks.

> I don't like how Kaito was written in the arc. But it has been a while since I last read, so I'm hoping Madhouse can make me change my mind about that. I want more of his character, without sacrificing his role as a plot device. (That is not to say he was static and uninteresting; just that maybe he could have been portrayed better as both character and plot device? The more I get to see him as a character, the more effective his role will be later on. Maybe that's my whole problem with my perception of Kaito./opinion)

> I like all the other characters though. From Palm to Yupi to Komugi.

> I like the info dumps. I'm sure everyone doesn't agree with me on that one.

> It's a masterpiece and a trainwreck at the same time.

> It dragged on way too long. I don't know if that's a good or bad thing, because I don't think Togashi could fit everything and end it right if he cut the story short.

> I don't care what you say. I'm excited for Butterfly Douche.

> Also Pitou.

> I'm gonna miss a lot of characters soon now that the anime is here.

> Basically for everything in this arc, YMMV.

 

[Demonspeed]

So,it's the worst arc for you because:
1-It's totally different.
2-Power levels.
3-The plot that you think generic.
I won't talk about the art because it was fixed in the volume.

OK,first HXH can be different from many shounen but it's still a shounen,and some shounen codes are impossible to avoid,all HXH arcs have been totally different since the beginning and the Chimera Ants arc is one of the arcs which fits the most with the theme of the series,for the first time since the beginning,magical beasts had a huge role in the story.
HXH is an Adventure/battle shounen so,power levels are always important,since the beginning of the series Gon is trying to reach Hisoka's level,even if you fight with tactics and tricks,it doesn't mean you should be weak and Meruem was the ONLY exception,Togashi created him to represent the ULTIMATE POWER(which is very funny because we learn latter that he has been outsmarted by Netero),I don't remember exactly but he wrote something like"In a battle involving Nen,power isn't sufficient to beat your opponents but Meruem's aura was so strong that etc..."

I don't understand why you think the plot is generic.I could resume every arc with one phrase like that:
Hunter Exam:I must be a Hunter.
Zoldyck arc:I must see my friend.
Celestial Tower arc:I must punch Hisoka to the face!
York Shin City arc:We must beat the PT.
Greed Island arc: I must complete the game.

It seems pretty generic like that,the 2 first arcs are the most generic,GI too but in the 3rd arc,Gon has many things to do,if he wants to punch Hisoka he must learn Nen and all it's the same in following arcs.
YS arc which is the most praised arc is a bit off in the story,it is clearly the most different arc in the manga.
CA arc is not generic at all even if it follows many codes of shounen,the most tactical battles are in this arc,you can't win with power alone(excepted Gon vs Pitou),awesome characters,awesome plot.For me it's the best arc in the series.

The story of HXH is generic itself:A young boy wants to find his father...But when you read the manga you see that it's completely different from generic shounen manga.


And yes,of course I am excited to see my favorite arc being animated.

 

[HybridBloodsZak]

Want to add something to what Demonspeed says about HxH in regards to the series still being a shonen in relation to the OP's complaints about the Chimera Ant arc

These aren't my words but from someone on the Interwebs I don't see anymore but respect a lot as someone who can explain why he loves HxH in an intelligent and coherent fashion. Mr. Toto!

"One more thing is that you mention that Hunter x Hunter's arcs seem to be reminiscent of other popular series, but I'm pretty certain that this is entirely intentional. Togashi tries to filter the cliches of shonen through a logical and rational approach. He's trying to seriously examine his characters and what drives them (often a psychological disorder, presented in textbook fashion), as opposed to the shallow characterization present in most shonen manga."

"This is what I've found after reading the series. The protagonist, Gon, is made entirely amoral as a result of his curiosity always taking precedence over anything else. Togashi does a very good job of distracting his readers from picking up on this through subtle dialogue choices and doesn't explicitly state it until the Yorknew City arc. Gon's drive for power isn't written about in a positive light; his flaws are significant and portrayed as self-destructive as a result of his purity. On the other side of the coin, characters whom are supposed to be "villains" also exhibit traits opposite from what one would expect. "


Excerpts sourced from
http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/bbs/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=1031785

 

[Nii]

To be honest I never enjoyed the Ant Arc that much. It had it's awesome moments but I never really got attached to the Arc as a whole. Didn't have much interest in any "villain" besides Pitou so yeah, I was rather so-so towards the arc. Me reading through the arc too fast and the amazingly long breaks towards the end probably did the rest.

Looking back on it now (I actually realized it months ago) I have to say that I was totally in the wrong. I haven't even reread the Ant Arc but when the anime started I thought about what's ahead of us and then had a discussion with another MH fellow over in my thread. He bashed the arc, calling it really bad. Then I started reflecting on it, for some reason I thought about it really hard instead of just agreeing or disagreeing. Then it came to me that the arc is way more amazing than what I thought about it years ago. Maybe I wasn't mature enough to realize it, I dunno. Maybe I even was too action-focused too.

Thinking about it though, I have to say Togashi really put a damn lot of thoughts onto this arc. It's nothing for a fast read, you have to use your mind and realize all the themes he's scratching, the astonishing character development (and I'm not just talking about Gon and Killua here but a lot of the Ants too) and the detailed fights. I doubt I've seen that much strategy being used in such a short span of chapters. Sure Pitou, Yupi, Pouf and Meruem were/are so extremly strong that there was no way to beat them, none. We don't got a lame powerup for the protagonists though, but an intense amount of strategy used. Not just your masterfully planned out strategy, where the hero totally overhelms the villains and puts on a confident grin at the end, but a desperate struggle to win with your wits, if everything somehow works out and you have a damn lot of luck. That's what made the fights so stunning.

Well, that's only a small part of it but I just wanted to say that I feel like a fool downgrading the arc back then. I would always recommend to not just read HxH like your everyday action shounen but rather really sit down and think about it for a few minutes. That probably makes you realize a lot of things you didn't notice at first, at least that's how it went for me. I'm calling it and saying that Togashi is just that amazing. A lazy genius but still a genius, no matter what you think about how he's handling the serialization of Hunter x Hunter.

 

[Akia999]

I like and hate this arc at the same time.At first glance, I actually found the idea of insanely strong ants eating humans taking over the world pretty ridiculous.I really wasn't to keen to read it.But then I did.I finished 2/3 of the arc in a day or two and I freaking love it.(I cry when I was realize Togashi is on hiatus)The horribly drawn art didn't really bother me.
The fights and the strategies used in battle were really good.(Killua's fight and Moral's fight were some of my favorite)I also like a lot of other things in the arc but I just can't quite describe it in words.As some pointed out, this arc is actually pretty deep and dark contrary to what people think.
Though I still can't quite get over the fact that some of the ants were overly powerful but at least they got defeated in a way that wasn't too much of a deus ex machina.

This arc suffered a lot once it hit the last 1/3 of the arc.The constant hiatus make it hard for me to enjoy the arc because I can't remember much details.Also,this arc was seriously starting to drag and I just wanted it to end asap.One of the royal guards was also starting to annoy the crap of me.

I was pretty meh with the chapters leading to the ending.But I liked the ending of the arc a lot.It wasn't the ending I have imagined for this arc but at least it didn't end in a cliche fashion.

Overall,the chimera ant is a pretty good arc despite its rather ridiculous premise.Give this arc a chance.I think those that read it in one go would enjoy it a lot better.I plan to reread it again once I have the time.

 

[REN KOUEN]

im on chapter 218 now

this arc is great thus far, i love the training growth and the enemies
i dont want to say too much incase anime only people read this thread