Discussion Three Great Powers

[aster4jaden]

This just hit me, do you think the Gorosei created the the Three Great Powers to prevent another Rocks Pirates from rising or current ones reuniting?

 

[aster4jaden]

Greated how ?

Greatest conspiracy in one piece world ?

I can't really say, but given how they acknowledged Blackbeard as the new forth Yonko. I'm guessing they created the position to keep Kaido and Linlin occupied with each other, by playing on their ego's by making them "Emperors".

 

[goldb]

I can't really say, but given how they acknowledged Blackbeard as the new forth Yonko. I'm guessing they created the position to keep Kaido and Linlin occupied with each other, by playing on their ego's by making them "Emperors".

Does that then mean they made Whitebeard an emperor too? Because we know emperors came to being after Roger.

I don't believe they make anyone anything besides the Shichibukai. They acknowledge that a certain pirate has made enough moves and caused waves to put himself in the same conversation as others. By that I mean news of Blackbeard slowly taking over Whitebeard's territories.

To me, it's more of a general consensus where with enough proven action, they can't deny it anymore.

 

[goldb]

Wouldnt that be what they want you to think...

That's why I asked, does that mean they made Whitebeard an emperor too? Was that to stroke his ego too?

In your opinion, how are the WG/Gorosei benefiting from naming certain pirates over others? Is it just an ego thing or essentially setting up a pseudo Shichibukai that they essentially have no control over?

 

[aster4jaden]

Does that then mean they made Whitebeard an emperor too? Because we know emperors came to being after Roger.

I don't believe they make anyone anything besides the Shichibukai. They acknowledge that a certain pirate has made enough moves and caused waves to put himself in the same conversation as others. By that I mean news of Blackbeard slowly taking over Whitebeard's territories.

To me, it's more of a general consensus where with enough proven action, they can't deny it anymore.

That does seem to be it, given time they may make Luffy's position as the "Fifth Emperor" official in hopes of it satisfying him. After giving it a think about the whole Pirate occupation could be the Gorosei's doing, as a form of "Controlled Freedom" like a illusion.

 

[goldb]

That does seem to be it, given time they may make Luffy's position as the "Fifth Emperor" official in hopes of it satisfying him. After giving it a think about the whole Pirate occupation could be the Gorosei's doing, as a form of "Controlled Freedom" like a illusion.

I don't think being an emperor would satisfy Luffy; he clearly wants to be pirate king. His definition of that too, is different to what most pirates see. Luffy just wants to be free and do what he wants, go where he wants when he wants. They wouldn't be able to control him in any way.

Controlled Freedom does sound possible with the emperors but when you think of the atrocities that would've happened under this "control", it makes you question what exactly is the WG getting from this. If this is true then it's not a method that cares for casualties.

 

[McNuss]

I don't think being an emperor would satisfy Luffy; he clearly wants to be pirate king. His definition of that too, is different to what most pirates see. Luffy just wants to be free and do what he wants, go where he wants when he wants. They wouldn't be able to control him in any way.

Controlled Freedom does sound possible with the emperors but when you think of the atrocities that would've happened under this "control", it makes you question what exactly is the WG getting from this. If this is true then it's not a method that cares for casualties.

The thing is, the World Government didn't seem to care that much about the New World up til now, indicated by the fact that all major New World countries both WG affiliated or not (Dressrosa, Prodence, Zou, Wano, Elbaf) introduced up till now have cultures where strength or being a warrior is important, which means that it never had been a peaceful place.

Allowing Kaido, Linlin and Co. to be Emperor's in the New World might have been a price they were willing to pay for the stability of Paradise and the Blues. The New World is landlocked between the Redline on both sides and sealocked by the Calm Belts, large Pirate forces cannot leave that easily without them noticing, unless you know about secret undersea currents like Whitebeard. It is kind of a natural huge scale prison, keep in mind that the heart of the WGs military power (Marineford, Impel Down, Enies Lobby) was directly after the Red Line.

This all changed with the timeskip and Levely, but for a long time all the WG cared about was stability, because that is in the end self-serving.

 

[kkck]

I am not quite sure I understand the question here. The three great powers are the marines, the shichibukai and the yonko... The marines are a world government organization so.... yeah, the gorosei are pretty responsible for them. The shichibukai were created by the world government and disbanded by the levely... So.... yeah, they were created by the world government and the gorosei probably had their say in this.

And that leaves... the yonko.... But how would they have created them? To me that doesn't really make sense. And "creating" the yonko in no way helps prevent another rocks. You can easily make the case that given that the world government actually implemented the shichibukai they'd be stupid enough to create the yonko but it still doesn't really fit. The only extent to which the world government could "create" the yonko is the flee publicity they get from bounties but even then it doesn't really fit either.

That said, it is entirely possible that the shichibukai were created as a countermeasure to rocks specifically.

 

[Fox666]

The thing is, the World Government didn't seem to care that much about the New World up til now, indicated by the fact that all major New World countries both WG affiliated or not (Dressrosa, Prodence, Zou, Wano, Elbaf) introduced up till now have cultures where strength or being a warrior is important, which means that it never had been a peaceful place.

Interesting.

There's also Zou, Germa Kingdom, Beehive, Broc Coli Island, Punk Hazard, Karai Bari Island, probably Majiatsuka Kingdom. Sphinx is an exception...

 

[M3J]

This just hit me, do you think the Gorosei created the the Three Great Powers to prevent another Rocks Pirates from rising or current ones reuniting?

No, absolutely not. The Three Great POwers exist because of the Yonkou, and the Marines needing shichibukai/more power to make sure the Yonkou don't dare attack them. The Gorosei want only one power, and that's the Marines.

Unless you mean the Marines and shichibukai to counter the Yonkou, which is what created the THree Great Powers. Then I still disagree, it's so the YOnkou don't think about attacking the very organization that's supposed to be about law and order.

 

[aster4jaden]

No, absolutely not. The Three Great POwers exist because of the Yonkou, and the Marines needing shichibukai/more power to make sure the Yonkou don't dare attack them. The Gorosei want only one power, and that's the Marines.

Unless you mean the Marines and shichibukai to counter the Yonkou, which is what created the THree Great Powers. Then I still disagree, it's so the YOnkou don't think about attacking the very organization that's supposed to be about law and order.

The Gorosei claim to want balance and the Yonko as of right now didn't seem to exist before the Rocks Pirates neither did the Shichibukai (until it's mentioned otherwise), the Gorosei have shown to be very shady and I wouldn't be surprised if the Yonko position was created by them in a attempt to keep them occupied with each other instead of going after Laugh Tale.

 

[M3J]

The shichibukai existed at the very least, after the concept of YOnkou did as they were created to bolster the Marines' strength against the Emperors. The Gorosei as far as I know don't want balance, they want the World Government/Marines to reign supreme, and didn't they mention getting rid of pirates before meeting with Im?

All things shown so far, the Gorosei would not want four of the strongest pirate crews to exist, especially two who used to be part of the Rocks and one who used to be part of the Rocks crew rival. What if Big Mom and Kaidou join forces? I mean, even with the shichibukai (minus their crews for some reason), the Marines had their hands full with Whitebeard.

 

[McNuss]

The shichibukai existed at the very least, after the concept of YOnkou did as they were created to bolster the Marines' strength against the Emperors. The Gorosei as far as I know don't want balance, they want the World Government/Marines to reign supreme, and didn't they mention getting rid of pirates before meeting with Im?

Balance and the WG reigning supreme is the same. What the WG fears most are not pirates, it is revolution.

An active war against the Yonko would disturb the balance, countries would be torn apart and the WG's public support would weaken. There really is no reason to wage war with them, even though they technically could, but the downsides would outweigh the benefits.

Keep in mind that while we see the WG's evil doings, most citizens don't. They never encounter a Tenryubito, when one comes to your country, that's a big event. Still, in order for the CDs to do what they want, an environment of stability has to be created, an infinite status quo. The Yonko are part of that Status Quo, they are the "Evil" that justifies the existence of "Justice".

 

[McNuss]

Why are not revolitionaries concidered as one of the great powers ?

Because they disturb the balance. They are not something that should exist in any context as they threaten the WG's very existence.

The Yonko don't do that, they don't inspire citizens to revolt against the government. The Yonko can't change the world as they would only destroy it instead.

 

[M3J]

Balance and the WG reigning supreme is the same. What the WG fears most are not pirates, it is revolution.

An active war against the Yonko would disturb the balance, countries would be torn apart and the WG's public support would weaken. There really is no reason to wage war with them, even though they technically could, but the downsides would outweigh the benefits.

Keep in mind that while we see the WG's evil doings, most citizens don't. They never encounter a Tenryubito, when one comes to your country, that's a big event. Still, in order for the CDs to do what they want, an environment of stability has to be created, an infinite status quo. The Yonko are part of that Status Quo, they are the "Evil" that justifies the existence of "Justice".

How are they the same? Balance would be just World Government existing as a power, no pirate. They fear pirates because the pirates can start revolution, especially if they learn about the Void Century. None of the Marines want the Yonkou to exist, but they lack the strength to take out the Yonkou, while the Yonkou lack the strength to take them out, while the shichibukai together could help the Marines stand a chance, hence the Three Great Powers. The World Government didn't care about the countries when they were trying to kill Whitebeard, and the other Emperors except for Shanks are evil enough to put their citizens at risk for personal gain.

Why are not revolitionaries concidered as one of the great powers ?

possibly because they're not a threat to the Emperors? They just want to take down the WG/CD but probably aren't powerful enough for that.

 

[McNuss]

How are they the same? Balance would be just World Government existing as a power, no pirate. They fear pirates because the pirates can start revolution, especially if they learn about the Void Century. None of the Marines want the Yonkou to exist, but they lack the strength to take out the Yonkou, while the Yonkou lack the strength to take them out, while the shichibukai together could help the Marines stand a chance, hence the Three Great Powers. The World Government didn't care about the countries when they were trying to kill Whitebeard, and the other Emperors except for Shanks are evil enough to put their citizens at risk for personal gain.

No Pirates seems impossible. The World Government exists on the basis of control, Pirates on the basis of freedom.

Not a single Yonko has anything to do with Revolution, and they can't learn about the Void Century anyways.

In case of an all out war with a Yonko or even two, the WG would always win even without the Shishibukai, Marineford kinda proves that. It's just not worth it, another Yonko would use that to his advantage, it could start chain reactions beyond their control. However the Yonko themselves could never start such a war as they are vastly inferior, it is for a reason that Kaido, Big Mom and Blackbeard are trying to gather power.
So as long as the WG doesn't start the chain of events, nothing will happen, that's what I mean with balance.

The Revolutionaries are a wholy different level of threat, they turn the citizens against the WG. If entire countries leave the WG that's very bad for them. No tributes, less control, a broken image etc..
The Yonko can never do that, they are feared as evil beings by pretty much everyone in the world.

 

[Rmstorm]

Luffy is different, he has done more damage to the World Government than All of the Revolutionary's and Yonko combined.

It is because of Luffy that the revolutionary's can make a move.
Doflamingo was blocking the revotionary's from making any big moves.

Luffy is also responsible for Blackbeard's success. Without Luffy taking out Crocodile, Blackbeard would not have gained access to Impel down.

Luffy's also weakened Impel Down's defenses making it easier for Blackbeard to recruit allies from there.

Not just that but Luffy has saved and liberated many islands.

He is the reason the Warlords are being disbanded.

Luffy is solely responsible for all of these major players successes.

 

[M3J]

No Pirates seems impossible. The World Government exists on the basis of control, Pirates on the basis of freedom.

Not a single Yonko has anything to do with Revolution, and they can't learn about the Void Century anyways.

In case of an all out war with a Yonko or even two, the WG would always win even without the Shishibukai, Marineford kinda proves that. It's just not worth it, another Yonko would use that to his advantage, it could start chain reactions beyond their control. However the Yonko themselves could never start such a war as they are vastly inferior, it is for a reason that Kaido, Big Mom and Blackbeard are trying to gather power.
So as long as the WG doesn't start the chain of events, nothing will happen, that's what I mean with balance.

The Revolutionaries are a wholy different level of threat, they turn the citizens against the WG. If entire countries leave the WG that's very bad for them. No tributes, less control, a broken image etc..
The Yonko can never do that, they are feared as evil beings by pretty much everyone in the world.

I agree, it's impossible not to have pirates, but the World Government would rather have weak pirates that they can deal with over strong pirates like Rocks and Kaidou.

I said pirates, not Yonkou, and it doesn't matter, the World Government is still scared.

Er, the World Government had some problems with Whitebeard's crew, and Whitebeard wasn't really fighting until near the end. If the World Government would win against a Yonkou or two, then they'd have no need for the shichibukai nor would they have forced the shichibukai to help them against Whitebeard under the threat of losing the status, like Jinbei. As per manga, the Yonkou would not start a war with each other or against the Marines because it'd result in a Pyrrhic victory, which would make them easier pickings for the next opponent. Same with the Marines, and why they're not going to start a fight unless they know they can wipe out a Yonkou crew with minimal losses. THe three emperors are trying to gather power in order to have a decisive victory rather than one with tons of losses, which would make other enemies think twice before challenging them.

The Yonkou don't want to do that though, even though they have territories.

 

[Rmstorm]

I agree, it's impossible not to have pirates, but the World Government would rather have weak pirates that they can deal with over strong pirates like Rocks and Kaidou.

I said pirates, not Yonkou, and it doesn't matter, the World Government is still scared.

Er, the World Government had some problems with Whitebeard's crew, and Whitebeard wasn't really fighting until near the end. If the World Government would win against a Yonkou or two, then they'd have no need for the shichibukai nor would they have forced the shichibukai to help them against Whitebeard under the threat of losing the status, like Jinbei. As per manga, the Yonkou would not start a war with each other or against the Marines because it'd result in a Pyrrhic victory, which would make them easier pickings for the next opponent. Same with the Marines, and why they're not going to start a fight unless they know they can wipe out a Yonkou crew with minimal losses. THe three emperors are trying to gather power in order to have a decisive victory rather than one with tons of losses, which would make other enemies think twice before challenging them.

The Yonkou don't want to do that though, even though they have territories.

How were the World Government so useless watching these Emperors get stronger without doing anything.

 

[M3J]

Probably weren't aware of what was going on or couldn't devote as much time to stopping them?