Theory Titans, Their Origin, and Their Purpose.

[Utsune]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

Anyways, the only thing that makes sense right now is that their hometown is somewhere they can return to where they can be safe and there are people they give a crap about. The more I think about it the more I get the impression that people within the walls are just an experiment to make more titans.

I generally agree with the rest of your post, but I have a bit of an issue whenever R&B mentions "their hometown," because it feels as if it's not really a home, nor is it some sort of settlement (i.e. a town or village etc,) but merely a hideout or whatever. Just pure speculations here.



Also, sorry for being nitpicky on the 'technology' point, but I wonder if humans back in the days were much stronger than their current state (or at least, the humans within the walls.)
http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/4/24
Humans were apparently "powerful enough" "back in the days" for that to get specifically mentioned. Of course, this isn't necessarily a sign of more advanced technology in the past, and that there were simply more of them to get things done, especially overwhelming manpower in the production of equipment. Nonetheless, we could also consider a regression in technology due to the Titan crisis. Well in any case, this doesn't really concern the wall-building anyway if they were built with Titans in the first place.

 

[kkck]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

I always got the impression that is somewhat of a translation issue. They were speaking of titan's regenerative abilities so I think he meant to say that back in the day they had the firepower to hurt them but could not stop the regeneration. Looking at the image shown it seems like he was speaking about cannons, the same ones they have today. It is weird that significant improvements haven't been made on technology for 100 years though.

As for the hometown, for me the issue with it being a hideout is the fact that reyner seems to want to go back there so badly. Berholt has not mentioned it much however reyner was desperate to the point where it was that desperation which basically made him crack and talk to eren recently about them being titans. I get the impression that at least reyner thinks of the place as a home to return too. If it was just a hideout it wouldn't make sense for them to destroy the wall, they would be destroying humanity and have no place to return to. On the other hand destroying the wall while having a place to return to makes perfect sense overall.

 

[Utsune]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

I always got the impression that is somewhat of a translation issue. They were speaking of titan's regenerative abilities so I think he meant to say that back in the day they had the firepower to hurt them but could not stop the regeneration. Looking at the image shown it seems like he was speaking about cannons, the same ones they have today. It is weird that significant improvements haven't been made on technology for 100 years though.

As for the hometown, for me the issue with it being a hideout is the fact that reyner seems to want to go back there so badly. Berholt has not mentioned it much however reyner was desperate to the point where it was that desperation which basically made him crack and talk to eren recently about them being titans. I get the impression that at least reyner thinks of the place as a home to return too. If it was just a hideout it wouldn't make sense for them to destroy the wall, they would be destroying humanity and have no place to return to. On the other hand destroying the wall while having a place to return to makes perfect sense overall.

Hmm yeah fair point. There is one thing I don't get though. Reiner states that there's no need to continue with the mission or something, and bargained with Eren that if he left with them, they would be leaving too and it would be a good deal for Eren. What exactly is the "good deal?" Is that simply R&B won't be attacking the humans anymore? But naturally, since R&B knows Eren wants to protect the humans from Titan, by "good deal" does it mean the whole "Titan crisis" end here for now? Or is Reiner just sleep-talking? Do you see where I'm getting at, or is my question too confusing? Wait I think I'm confusing myself, too.



Oh and thanks for raising the translation issue, never thought about that myself, so I tried to look up the original text. Although I don't have access to the raws, several sources have the same phrase quoted. It seems that the phrase is meant to be "Ever since the past" rather than simply "Back in the days."

"Ever since" implies they've had the technology all along, so you are definitely right on this.

I think the whole community has been driven to advance specific technology, eg. the 3D gear. Also, resources (most importantly food) and manpower are on the low, so certain improvements (especially those requiring more manpower to mass produce) are not possible, even if they had the brains.

 

[kkck]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

No clue on the good deal lol. Who knows on why meeting the guys for whom R&B work would be a good deal for eren. I do get the impression they were hoping for eren to change sides though. It doesn't make sense for them to want eren otherwise because at the moment he is in fact their enemy. Worst, eren is potentially they only enemy they have reason to fear at large.

Well, for me developing the 3d gear is what makes no sense at all, specially if their most scarce resource is manpower. I mean, they lack humans and develop a method for killing titans which according to the manga takes 30 human lives on average? It would have made more sense for them to focus for the past 100 years on mobile ranged weapons which specifically damage the nape.... Instead they developed a steam punk version of spiderman which sends food remarkably close to the mouths of the predators in question. I guess they simply do not have the technology to make better cannons and weapons, they would have seen to be in the middle. Mass production is not an issue for that matter. Didn't we have a chapter which specifically said they fired the cannons non stop for days?

I also doubt the humans were ever remotely close to us in technology terms. Can you imagine how titans would fare against current technology? Titans are huge, at most run at horse speed and have a rather large weak point precisely in their blindspot. While they could cause trouble, I doubt they would present a threat to us as a specie.

 

[ImmortalZodd]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

Reiner states that there's no need to continue with the mission or something, and bargained with Eren that if he left with them, they would be leaving too and it would be a good deal for Eren. What exactly is the "good deal?"

I'm guessing Reiner was just trying to convince Eren to leave with them.

Or, he was trying to imply to Eren that he's being blackmailed to leave.
http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/14
"You get my drift, right?" Is the line that catches my attention.

But still, the question "what is RBA's objective?" is the one that could give us the most answers.

No matter what theory I make, it just doesn't make sense the fact that they are destroying the walls with intention of wiping out humans within. In every page of chapter 46 I was just waiting for Eren to ask them WHY. Why did they do it? Knowing that answer would solve so much, don't you think?

Reiner and Bertholdt also often said that they are warriors, opposed to soldiers that they play to be.
Wiki said that:
"A warrior is a person skilled in combat or warfare, especially within the context of a tribal or clan-based society that recognizes a separate warrior class."
Clans were already often mentioned in the manga as well.

Then, seeing how Reiner mentiones warrior's duty,
http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/26
I searched google a bit, and found a warrior's code that stated that:

"A warrior is not a murderer because a warrior has a code that he lives by which is influenced by morals which must be justified."
Could that mean that they somehow still believe killing all those people was justified?

 

[kkck]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

Actually there is something which does not make sense at all, in particular with a point I made earlier.
http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/25
In here reyner said he didn't know about someone's existence. Who didn't he know about? Was his mission to destroy humanity a whim or an order?

Anyways, if he is talking about the true enemy then it would appear he carried out his little genocide with no orders from others. Isn't that weird? That would be in complete contrast with the notion that he carried out the destruction under the assumption that he had somewhere to return too.

Thinking about it, what if annie, reyner and berholt have something in common with eren? We saw earlier that annie's dad knew something about the titan power... as was the case with eren's dad. Perhaps titanism is somehow related to all of their parents? Perhaps the difference between eren and the others is that his dad did not live to tell him about the titan powers. Perhaps if eren had seen the basement he would have turned out like the other titans.

 

[nyamonyamo]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

No matter what theory I make, it just doesn't make sense the fact that they are destroying the walls with intention of wiping out humans within. In every page of chapter 46 I was just waiting for Eren to ask them WHY. Why did they do it? Knowing that answer would solve so much, don't you think?

I've been waiting for that too. But Eren is just too stupid and act like some add kid. I wish it was Armin who they caught. The only thing on Eren's mind is mad mad mad revenge with huge moral ego.

 

[ImmortalZodd]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

Actually there is something which does not make sense at all, in particular with a point I made earlier.
http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/42/25
In here reyner said he didn't know about someone's existence. Who didn't he know about? Was his mission to destroy humanity a whim or an order?

Well, a page earlier he said: "I've spent three years of my life, surrounded by fools...".
And then, on the page you linked: "If only I'd never learned about those fools existence..".
Is he reffering to the same fools, ie. humans within the wall?

 

[kkck]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

Well, a page earlier he said: "I've spent three years of my life, surrounded by fools...".
And then, on the page you linked: "If only I'd never learned about those fools existence..".
Is he reffering to the same fools, ie. humans within the wall?

I would think he is talking about different fools, in context it makes more sense that way. I would think he was speaking of the 3 years he spent training to become a soldier at large. In turn with the other fools it seems he learned of someone's existence altogether. It wouldn't make sense for him to not have known of humans or the soldiers at large.

 

[Utsune]

Re: Okay, I have a pretty good idea about what is going on.

I think it can go both ways, as far as this conversation is concerned.

Sorry for bringing in original text again, but after looking at it I feel the translation we have now is kind of misleading. I'll try to be as literal as possible here:

"It's the fault of spending 3 years here surrounded by stupid people..."
"We, as kids... didn't know a thing"
"If only I didn't know there are these people..."
"I wouldn't have become such a pathetic shitty bastard..."

Note that the two serious words, "learn" and "existence," are not necessary (although it is one possible implication, the real wording here is as vague as Isayama can be, as usual lol.)

I would've thought if Reiner were referring to Eren and co, he'd be mainly saying: the 3 years spent with Eren and co made him feel like one of them. As kids, they only did as they were told, and if Reiner didn't know that there were such "great" people around, he wouldn't have become pathetic, stuck in between "friendship" and mission.

(I don't really mean "great" and "friendship" as they are... but you get my drift lol)

But IF Reiner were referring to some other people, then it would kinda go like this: the 3 years spent here surrounded by stupid people made him forget the depressingly serious mission. As kids they didn't know the reality of the world, and if Reiner didn't know about the existence of this reality, he wouldn't have been a pathetic person stuck in between killing (with a reason he's somewhat forgotten over the 3 years) and warrior's pride.



Personally I agree with kkck, but only by a hair's width. Just from the outset, the general flow of the monologue goes slightly better if he were talking about Eren and co. But explanation-wise, it makes a bit more sense with the second option. Though when he said "As kids......about these people" I'm not too sure how to interpret it. It could mean something like, "if only he stayed clueless like a kid without having to face decisions with certain knowledge..." but again, this can go both ways.

 

[icha7]

Hello,

My first post and have only recently started watching/reading Attack on Titan. Maybe it's because I've recently read the mangas, but I have a more simpler approach than many of the theories here. I agree with some but deviate with others.

First, I think that the injection into Eren was a vaccine of some sort. I think it was something in which after being eaten by a titan, it activates his ability to transform into one. The injections occurred sometime after the wall falling. He would have received the injection before training. Eren has always been determined, hot headed and always reckless. All these qualities were in him since he was young. These are the same qualities, when controlled and activated by self inflicted injury, turns him into a titan. My point is, if the injection was a titan turning ability, he would have had so many chances during the 3 years of training camp to turn into one. It only became activated when he was eaten. If something as ubiquitous as reaching for a spoon can trigger transformation, the injection must be a vaccine of some sort. Hence, like alot of Zombie trended comics recently, this series seems to allude to a virus that turns humans into Titans.

I feel as though the information on Ymir (being titan but also the titan who spoke of her), R + B, and Hanji/Armin's similar hypothesis on the structure of the wall and Christa, may seem to diverge into different story threads but rather, tries to say the same thing. From the posts I've read on this site, I feel as though most users are saying similar things. The enemy or the secret is what happened 100 years ago and all these different plot hints seem to tackle the question but from different perspectives.

The arcs of all the teenagers seem to question the existence of humanity. Like alot of sci-fi or apocalyptic genres, Attack on Titan seems to centralise the question of 'What is it to be human'. It seems that all the titan changing teenagers have concrete views on humanity (all negative) and like other stories within the genre, this story is about finding a new positive quality or reasons why humanity must go on. I mention this point because the plot seems to be heading towards some sort of conspiracy theory which happened 100 years ago, something only the religious sect knows. I'm sure the sect has a prophecy (as most religions do) and the prophecy is imminent.

I wouldn't be surprised if the prophecy is some sort of Evangelion fourth impact sort of plan, where the conspirators have heard of the prophecy (something to do with the titans in the walls) and need to activate it. Attack on titan seems to have similarities with Evangelion, in terms of the evas being piloted but bio-mechanically, as it seems to with the case with the titans that Eren and co use. The existential questioning seems to be similar with that genre, though the protagonist of both stories differ considerably. But maybe consciously, the idea of family is the point which the creators stick to, unlike its abandonment in Evangelion.

The ape is the spanner in the works though. He's not familiar with the city, its technologies and assumes that its inhabitants should speak a certain language (as if he's heard it from someone else, who's been feeding him info). He seems to be not from within the city. Could their be 2 groups of conspirators, one in the city and a foreign force? I won't be surprised if all the titans rehabilitate and start fighting against the ape. Eren is someone who doesn't have special qualities. He isn't especially skilled but throughout the story, he has inspired people through his force of will. Whether it is his speeches and the changing of Jean, the interest of Annie when he learns something new, the Survey Corp finding respect for him etc, his main quality is his will. I wouldn't be surprised if this is the positive quality that revitalises the teenagers who are attacking the city.

 

[ImmortalZodd]

I wouldn't be surprised if the prophecy is some sort of Evangelion fourth impact sort of plan, where the conspirators have heard of the prophecy (something to do with the titans in the walls) and need to activate it.

Maybe RBA were the ones trying to 'activate' something with their actions.
Have you read the Time Leap thread?

And in this page,
http://www.mangareader.net/shingeki-no-kyojin/46/42
one could think that they know the world has no future, but are somehow trying to change the outcome.

 

[kkck]

I can see titanism as something that spreads much like a disease however I can't imagine it being something which can be transmited from normal/human titan to humans. If that was the case then there wouldn't be any surprises regarding people transforming into titans (which there have been) as members of the scouting legion would easily turn into them. Now, perhaps the beast titan can do this however at most I would think it'd be a special ability from as select few special titans.

As for the religion, we have to remember it is a new thing which appeared shortly after the colossal titan first attacked the outer wall. It is a new institution. I doubt they have something like a prophecy, they were purposely created for the sake of the wall. I doubt even they believe in the godhood of the wall so to speak. The church is not an actual church, it is a calculated move to keep people from the wall and under control.

 

[Kaiten]

A few clues:

• Eren received his Titan powers from the serum his father administered.
• After first transforming, Eren was overwhelmed by the desire to kill.
• After initially going berserk and attacking Mikasa, Eren is shown losing his will power, drifting into apathy.
• Erin learns to control his Titan powers after Armin reminds him about what he is fighting for.
• The walls were built using live Titans as supports.
• Pixis mentioned that humanity might put aside their differences, and unite, if they were faced with powerful enemy that was not human.
• The monarchy and church both know the truth. They are will to sacrifice their own lives rather than share their secrets.

The Titans were all normal humans, given the serum Erin's father administered. Transforming into a Titan triggers an unconscious urge, while sapping the will power. For most people, all sense of self is lost, turning them into a mindless killing machine. Individuals with a strong enough sense of self can overcome this, retain their individuality, and transform at will. Abnormals are people in between, strong enough not to entirely lose their will power, but not strong enough to control their new powers. The serum was administered by the forerunners of the church and monarchy. They then built the walls, using the threat of the Titans to seize absolute power, uniting humanity under their control. This would fit in with the theme of sacrificing freedom for security, that the walls represent.

I can't imagine the serum Erin's father administered was a vaccine. The context is all wrong. That scene came right after it was first revealed that Eren was a Titan. The scene only really makes sense as an explanation about how Eren gained his powers. His father also gave him the key to the basement at that time. It makes the most sense that his father turned him into a titan so that he would have the strength to find their old house, deep within Titan territory.

 

[icha7]

Hmm...

Eren has always gone berserk. He's always been hot headed and has had the desire to kill all the titans. Before he gets eaten up and also that he says he won't die today, shows that he had always had determination.

The timeline can't be wrong at all. When did his father administer the injection? If it was right before he went into his first battle then I'm wrong but it was a flashback to him when he was younger and before joining the training camp. He turned into a titan just trying to pick up a spoon. From the training reports, everyone knows how determined Eren is. My point is that he had ample opportunity to turn into a titan if the serum was for him to turn into a titan. It only became activated when he was in the belly of the titan that ate him. Only after that could be transform. Everyone else died in that belly and he was the only one that transformed, hence he needed to be in that belly.

The scene coming after he turned into a titan, to me, only supports my theory. But also, shows that he is still inexperienced while someone like Annie can control her powers.

Ymir's second chance could be that she turned into a human. In the later chapters, R+B remember her being the one who ate their friend. Connie's parent spoke to him when lying upside down and the titan that ate a girl scout talked about how the girl was one of 'Ymir's people'. I believe that these titans are human but loose their minds. While loosing their minds, their human body disappears and hence when cut into the nape of a titan, nothing is there. It could be that their human self disappears, while the controlled titans still exist and control the titan from the nape of the neck.

The church consists of noble families and Historia was someone who was born and knows the secret. Even if the church was something that was recently created I think the secret is something that has lasted a long time. Also, I believe that Annie creating the crystals and it being similar to the wall, does strengthen a prophecy. Annie is in a coma, she is dorment and it seems as though that the titans in the wall are similar. My point is that they are dorment, awaiting for the wall to be broken. I'm starting to believe that the titans want to break the wall to try to awaken the people in the wall. Maybe the people trapped inthe wall are heroes or leaders from the other lands and needed to protect themselves like Annie did. So to contain them, they just decided to build a city around them, almost like a prison. So, maybe the church knows about all this and hence want to protect the wall. Maybe in that sense, it's like Prometheus and the people sleeping are somehow the real danger to humanity.

The real interesting about this manga from the beginning was its video game like setting. Like the walls need to be broken down one by one for the player to win. If the inner most wall is the wall you need to protect, you would build many other walls around it. It makes sense because all the different walls houses different classes of society and the most central one is for the highest class of people. But what if that wall was the one to be protected? The church people saying that the walls are sacred or god's creation etc maybe crazy but what if that is the truth in a way. We know that there are titans in the innermost wall. We know that people were shipped 100 years before and no one knows how the walls were made. I believe that the city is a prison of that wall which contains some important titans. What if the people in that wall were the first one's who could control titan power and a struggle 100 years ago made the leaders turn into crystals to save their own lives. And hence they need to protect that wall so the leaders never see daylight again.

 

[iloveonepiece]

my theory is that all the intelligent titans are or the offspring of the original expedition force. they went out to fight mindless titans, but discovered a way to turn into titans in the process.
(but need time to gain back their own will from the bereserk state)

after they gain back their intellect, they realize they hold a grudge towards the people in the city because they sent them to their deaths.

 

[Utsune]

Speaking of Titans inside the wall, does anyone remember our beloved Armin's prophecy?

It's about time they all go out together for a walk...
or words to that effect.

This is probably my number one concern. It's Armin lol, it's bound to come true... :/



On this note, I have a feeling Bertholdt is very related to them (stating the obvious I know,) but as somebody said before, I don't think they're the same either.
Compare chapter 4 and 34:
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/6242/shingeki-no-kyojin_v1_ch4_by_gantz-waitingroom/3
http://www.batoto.net/read/_/106703/shingeki-no-kyojin_v8_ch34_by_tdx/8

(Chapter 34 pages 8-9 are both drawn very clearly)

 

[Bandreus]

They do look different. When the Titan inside the Wall was shown first, I thought the minor differences were because of a shift in Isayama's style (ch34 came ~2 years later than those initial chapters), also by looking how differently the later Armored Titan looks compared to the one in the beginning.

But then Colossal's design remained pretty much consistent up to the recent chapters.

It's interesting how only a slice of the Wall Titan's face is shown, so we can notice some minor differences in facial features but are left wondering about it's overall look.

Most noticeably, the 'skin' for the Wall Titan looks bark-y or slightly rough stone, in contrast to Berth's exposed muscle-tissues. Of course there's the possibility the Wall Titan looks like that just because of the stone-transformation used to create the walls in the first place...

 

[Demonspeed]

Maybe the tallest titans are skinless. Bert is the tallest titan we have seen and he is 60 meters. The titans inside the walls are 50 meters and they are skinless too.

 

[teioh]

I always thought that Colossal Titan was skinless cuz he's like "unfinished", infact the last time Bert transform into it cuz of walls he never develop his lowerbody/legs and feet. Something similar happened when Eren tried to transform to protect from the cannon shot and he develop only a skinless near meatless titan body.