Hangout Tournament Hangout Thread

[Takuan]

Meh, i'm more and more annoyed by the bullshit from last chapter and what it resulted in. Now Natsu is basically a God and Zeref is trash tier. Power levels have always been ridiculous and hard to determine, but right now nothing makes sense at all.
Zeref got defeated by an exhausted base Natsu, makes him trash tier? Would Acno be considered trash tier if he ended up the same way? Probably, since we're looking at feats, and those endgame feats are garbage as fuck. Zeref went from top tier to garbage tier in an instant, and now people consider him inferior to regular Spriggans. That's how incredibly stupid this manga has become.
I refuse to keep arguing about the consequences of the stupidest, most bullshit moment i've ever read or watched from any source. I refuse to sweep away all logic and 99% of Zeref's hype throughtout the manga due to one punch of Natsu's wild emotions.
I'm done with power level threads, and eventhough i'll still be following the tournament, i won't be participating anymore.
.

 

[Hermit]

Meh, i'm more and more annoyed by the bullshit from last chapter and what it resulted in. Now Natsu is basically a God and Zeref is trash tier. Power levels have always been ridiculous and hard to determine, but right now nothing makes sense at all.
Zeref got defeated by an exhausted base Natsu, makes him trash tier? Would Acno be considered trash tier if he ended up the same way? Probably, since we're looking at feats, and those endgame feats are garbage as fuck. Zeref went from top tier to garbage tier in an instant, and now people consider him inferior to regular Spriggans. That's how incredibly stupid this manga has become.
I refuse to keep arguing about the consequences of the stupidest, most bullshit moment i've ever read or watched from any source. I refuse to sweep away all logic and 99% of Zeref's hype throughtout the manga due to one punch of Natsu's wild emotions.
I'm done with power level threads, and eventhough i'll still be following the tournament, i won't be participating anymore.
.

Lol, that makes two of us Taku
This is why I always say that all feats for a character shouldn't be considered, there should be a gray area even when looking at stuff like these, and all prior factors before and after should be considered.
You can't just TAKE everything before you at face value, that just doesn't cut it for me imo.
It's why Erza slashing through Irene's meteor is frowned upon.
It's why Natsu beating an enchanted Spriggan after needing FDKM earlier in the arc to beat an even weaker one is unreasonable (in my opinion anyway). And beating down Zeref in base after needing Igneel's flames earlier? Naaah, I can do without losing some of my brain cells from considering that

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

This tournament, while being a great idea, seems to suffer from the same thing the last tournament suffered from: bias and emotions clouding our judgement. Of course no human is exempt from being bias but this amount of bias is crazy. The fact that Erza got 19 people to vote for her over mother trucking August and the fact that there are people arguing that Invel of all people can beat Zeref is frightening. I think that since power levels don't make a bit of sense in this manga people have stopped caring about who's stronger and focus more on who they like more.

 

[Arjuna]

Some users are basing it too on emotions.They forget Zeref's performance against Igneel-Powered Natsu.They are so downgrading him that they are even saying Neinhart>Zeref.So sad thing.

 

[Invel > Zeref]

This tournament, while being a great idea, seems to suffer from the same thing the last tournament suffered from: bias and emotions clouding our judgement. Of course no human is exempt from being bias but this amount of bias is crazy. The fact that Erza got 19 people to vote for her over mother trucking August and the fact that there are people arguing that Invel of all people can beat Zeref is frightening. I think that since power levels don't make a bit of sense in this manga people have stopped caring about who's stronger and focus more on who they like more.

I don't think it's fair to call anyone who disagrees with your opinion biased or overly emotional. Most of the people siding with Invel have provided logic behind their points that has yet to be refuted even if you think it's ridiculous. But I agree that emotions do play a role in some people's posts.

 

[~Charging Lightning~]

I don't think it's fair to call anyone who disagrees with your opinion biased or overly emotional. Most of the people siding with Invel have provided logic behind their points that has yet to be refuted even if you think it's ridiculous. But I agree that emotions do play a role in some people's posts.

As I said before, every human has bias. That includes the people that think Invel beats Zeref and the people who think Zeref beats Invel. The reason I say that emotions are clouding people's judgement with the Zeref and Invel fight is because before the Natsu vs Zeref fight most of the Invel supporters would have agreed that Invel would get destroyed. Every time Natsu defeats his opponents there a lot of people that just assume that it's because they're weak instead of him just being strong. That's not fair because if you replace any character with Zeref in that Natsu fight (be it Acno, August, Irene, etc), the result would be the same. I don't know enough about you to say that you simply changed your opinion after the Natsu v Zeref fight since you just joined, but there are others who I'm certain did.

No hard feelings bro. I hope we can move past this Invel v Zeref situation and get along in the future (still tho, your name kills me ).

 

[Invel > Zeref]

As I said before, every human has bias. That includes the people that think Invel beats Zeref and the people who think Zeref beats Invel. The reason I say that emotions are clouding people's judgement with the Zeref and Invel fight is because before the Natsu vs Zeref fight most of the Invel supporters would have agreed that Invel would get destroyed. Every time Natsu defeats his opponents there a lot of people that just assume that it's because they're weak instead of him just being strong. That's not fair because if you replace any character with Zeref in that Natsu fight (be it Acno, August, Irene, etc), the result would be the same. I don't know enough about you to say that you simply changed your opinion after the Natsu v Zeref fight since you just joined, but there are others who I'm certain did.

No hard feelings bro. I hope we can move past this Invel v Zeref situation and get along in the future (still tho, your name kills me ).

I agree with most of the things you said. Even I am still laughing at myself for making an account to defend Invel.

 

[Biri Biri]

Don't mind me I am just stopping by to mourn Gray's elimination.

Some of my favourite scenes in the Alvarez invasion.

Spoiler

And still the best quote from this arc.

Spoiler

Vintage Gray is vintage.

Too bad they have so little interaction throughout the entire series until then.

So Erza has 19 votes against August.

Spoiler

 

[M3J]

If he solos Acnologia then i'll agree with you, but until then August no diffs Natsu. Guild power isnt his own.

No diffs is exaggerating it, no? August will definitely win (he had to be plotsu'd to lose, like Irene), but it won't be an easy fight. As far as we know, only Acnologia and FH Zeref stand above August.

 

[Orgastthemage]

Meh, i'm more and more annoyed by the bullshit from last chapter and what it resulted in. Now Natsu is basically a God and Zeref is trash tier. Power levels have always been ridiculous and hard to determine, but right now nothing makes sense at all.
Zeref got defeated by an exhausted base Natsu, makes him trash tier? Would Acno be considered trash tier if he ended up the same way? Probably, since we're looking at feats, and those endgame feats are garbage as fuck. Zeref went from top tier to garbage tier in an instant, and now people consider him inferior to regular Spriggans. That's how incredibly stupid this manga has become.
I refuse to keep arguing about the consequences of the stupidest, most bullshit moment i've ever read or watched from any source. I refuse to sweep away all logic and 99% of Zeref's hype throughtout the manga due to one punch of Natsu's wild emotions.
I'm done with power level threads, and eventhough i'll still be following the tournament, i won't be participating anymore.
.

But..but.. August squad.

 

[Seven777]

No diffs is exaggerating it, no? August will definitely win (he had to be plotsu'd to lose, like Irene), but it won't be an easy fight. As far as we know, only Acnologia and FH Zeref stand above August.

You think? August is immune to magic, which means Natsu cant hurt him. Can a fight be more than no diff if one side doesnt take any damage? Though I suppose August will have to pull out some powerful spells to put down Natsu, so you could say that it was more than a no-diff fight on that account. But anyway, my point was that August can go into this fight without any worry of losing, he doesnt need to take Natsu seriously.

 

[M3J]

You think? August is immune to magic, which means Natsu cant hurt him. Can a fight be more than no diff if one side doesnt take any damage? Though I suppose August will have to pull out some powerful spells to put down Natsu, so you could say that it was more than a no-diff fight on that account. But anyway, my point was that August can go into this fight without any worry of losing, he doesnt need to take Natsu seriously.

He actually does, as Natsu can be pretty dangerous. While Natsu uses magic, wouldn't it also enhance his physical attacks? Even if Natsu uses fire punch, it'll still affect August even without the fire if he takes the punch.

 

[Seven777]

He actually does, as Natsu can be pretty dangerous. While Natsu uses magic, wouldn't it also enhance his physical attacks? Even if Natsu uses fire punch, it'll still affect August even without the fire if he takes the punch.

Not really, Gildarts couldnt do shit without his prosthetic. Magically enhanced punches are just as useless as normal spells.

 

[Nemispelled]

What kind of joke is this?

People voting for Invel are not judging off of emotions and bias... Well, I can't say for everybody else, but I definitely did not consider myself biased or emotional.

Look, I'm going straight off the manga. If everybody wants to deny feats, let me know, so I can backtrack my votes on Gray and Mira.

I purposely eliminated Gray and Mira over people like Natsu and God Serena.

Why should I let Zeref's feats go, but count Gray and Mira's?!

That's literally being unfair to Gray and Mira as well as denying them of their credit.

This is absurd, if we start denying or ignoring Zeref's feats, I'll have no problem extrapolating the power of all my favorite characters in future rounds.



This tournament is not to show who we believe is the winner.

This tournament is supposed to reflect Mashima's poor/bad logic and writing.

We can't mix both, otherwise that would be unfair to certain characters. I was under the impression that we go with the second option, but I could just as well go for the first if that's how everybody is judging their votes.

 

[M3J]

Not really, Gildarts couldnt do shit without his prosthetic. Magically enhanced punches are just as useless as normal spells.

But if August can remove magic, it still makes Natsu somewhat dangerous if he can land hits. I don't know how good Natsu's normal punches are, though, so moot point?

 

[Invel > Zeref]

You think? August is immune to magic, which means Natsu cant hurt him. Can a fight be more than no diff if one side doesnt take any damage? Though I suppose August will have to pull out some powerful spells to put down Natsu, so you could say that it was more than a no-diff fight on that account. But anyway, my point was that August can go into this fight without any worry of losing, he doesnt need to take Natsu seriously.

August would have to defeat Natsu before he thinks about his friends for too long. It seems friendship magic gets more powerful the longer Natsu fights, so if the fight goes on for too long Natsu's flames will become so emotional and the friendship magic will grow so much that his flames would burn away August's nullification. Sounds incredibly ridiculous but no doubt in my mind that is how the fight would go down if Hiro wrote it

 

[Takuan]

But..but.. August squad.

Haha xD I'll admit i considered changing my avi and sig to some August pics. But i didn't find anything great enough unfortunately.
August will rmain the righteous winner of this competition in my eyes, don't worry about that =)

What kind of joke is this?

People voting for Invel are not judging off of emotions and bias... Well, I can't say for everybody else, but I definitely did not consider myself biased or emotional.

Look, I'm going straight off the manga. If everybody wants to deny feats, let me know, so I can backtrack my votes on Gray and Mira.

I purposely eliminated Gray and Mira over people like Natsu and God Serena.

Why should I let Zeref's feats go, but count Gray and Mira's?!

That's literally being unfair to Gray and Mira as well as denying them of their credit.

This is absurd, if we start denying or ignoring Zeref's feats, I'll have no problem extrapolating the power of all my favorite characters in future rounds.



This tournament is not to show who we believe is the winner.

This tournament is supposed to reflect Mashima's poor/bad logic and writing.

We can't mix both, otherwise that would be unfair to certain characters. I was under the impression that we go with the second option, but I could just as well go for the first if that's how everybody is judging their votes.

I don't understand. What's wrong with Mira and Gray? I don't see how this is comparable to Zeref. Personally i think the latest chapter messed everything up due to base Natsu one shotting FH Zeref, which is insanely ridiculous. Feel free to take these feats in consideration but imho these defy every logic As @Emperor Spriggan said there has to be at least a reasonnable limit when taking feats into account, this is also my opinion. Hence i'm judging Zeref by what he had shown and his hype/portrayal from the beginign of the series to chapter 536 NOT included.
Mira and Gray never had to deal with a character or a fight that completely messed up every power level standards with a wild emotionnal punch or something.

Lol, that makes two of us Taku
This is why I always say that all feats for a character shouldn't be considered, there should be a gray area even when looking at stuff like these, and all prior factors before and after should be considered.
You can't just TAKE everything before you at face value, that just doesn't cut it for me imo.
It's why Erza slashing through Irene's meteor is frowned upon.
It's why Natsu beating an enchanted Spriggan after needing FDKM earlier in the arc to beat an even weaker one is unreasonable (in my opinion anyway). And beating down Zeref in base after needing Igneel's flames earlier? Naaah, I can do without losing some of my brain cells from considering that

I'm glad that even a Cavendish fan feels the same way
Just kidding dude, you know i value your opinion highly.

 

[Seven777]

But if August can remove magic, it still makes Natsu somewhat dangerous if he can land hits. I don't know how good Natsu's normal punches are, though, so moot point?

Dunno, but if Gildarts couldnt do it, i doubt Natsu can. There is a reason August kept gabbing on and on about how "none of your magic will work" despite Gildart's magic being mostly physical punches.
Besides, if August isnt hindered by PiS he will be blitzing Natsu with Meteor, reading his every thought with Sound, slowing all his movements with Slow, etc. Even his base form has pretty good CQC and reaction speed, but add in all those enhancements and i cant think of any way anyone but Acno(the human version, not the fodder that got beaten by Ichiya) can hit him.
But it doesnt really matter, we both already agreed August would win right? Thats the main thing

 

[Nemispelled]

I don't understand. What's wrong with Mira and Gray? I don't see how this is comparable to Zeref. Personally i think the latest chapter messed everything up due to base Natsu one shotting FH Zeref, which is insanely ridiculous. Feel free to take these feats in consideration but imho these defy every logic As @Emperor Spriggan said there has to be at least a reasonnable limit when taking feats into account, this is also my opinion. Hence i'm judging Zeref by what he had shown and his hype/portrayal from the beginign of the series to chapter 536 NOT included.
Mira and Gray never had to deal with a character or a fight that completely messed up every power level standards with a wild emotionnal punch or something.

No, Mira and Gray got as far as they did with their earned feats. I based my votes off of their performance and even Natsu/God Serena made it farther than them in this tournament.

I was never a fan of God Serena, but under the circumstances, I voted him to proceed to the next round while I eliminated Gray and Mira.

If people started ignoring Zeref's performance, I could have ignored Gray and Mira's weaknesses/losses.

All of my votes were based off of their feats and performance, not bias and emotions..

So, why should I treat Zeref any differently? He's a character in this manga like everybody else.



I'm really curious, aside from pointless hype, what has Zeref done that should be considered impressive in the current arc?

In this tournament, he doesn't have unlimited magic power nor does he have his immortality (aka high durability).

And keep in mind he lost to an exhausted Natsu even with those two qualities (infinite magic & immortality).

He hasn't shown anything out of the ordinary since Tenrou, so I'm not willing to give him the pass here.

Each and every arc, he appears for a few seconds, talks to Natsu about him being END, and then disappears again saying something like "We'll meet again".

That shows me nothing of his power.

Invel actually froze people (Natsu), caused Gray to shiver by the sheer coldness, and dealt some damage.

Not to mention, Zeref cannot counter his hax since he is not an ice mage like Gray.



I'm going straight off of Mashima's writing, but I'll start going off of my own belief and ignoring other people's feats if I have to.

 

[Takuan]

No, Mira and Gray got as far as they did with their earned feats. I based my votes off of their performance and even Natsu/God Serena made it farther than them in this tournament.

I was never a fan of God Serena, but under the circumstances, I voted him to proceed to the next round while I eliminated Gray and Mira.

If people started ignoring Zeref's performance, I could have ignored Gray and Mira's weaknesses/losses.

All of my votes were based off of their feats and performance, not bias and emotions..

So, why should I treat Zeref any differently? He's a character in this manga like everybody else.



I'm really curious, aside from pointless hype, what has Zeref done that should be considered impressive in the current arc?

In this tournament, he doesn't have unlimited magic power nor does he have his immortality (aka high durability).

And keep in mind he lost to an exhausted Natsu even with those two qualities (infinite magic & immortality).

He hasn't shown anything out of the ordinary since Tenrou, so I'm not willing to give him the pass here.

Each and every arc, he appears for a few seconds, talks to Natsu about him being END, and then disappears again saying something like "We'll meet again".

That shows me nothing of his power.

Invel actually froze people (Natsu), caused Gray to shiver by the sheer coldness, and dealt some damage.

Not to mention, Zeref cannot counter his hax since he is not an ice mage like Gray.



I'm going straight off of Mashima's writing, but I'll start going off of my own belief and ignoring other people's feats if I have to.

You didn't understand where i was going with Mra and Gray not being comparable to Zeref. I'm not saying we should disregard every negative feat from Zeref, i'm making an exception for the latest chapter which makes the least ammount of sense out of every manga chapter i've read thus far. (Though i didn't read a whole lot so this isn't that huge coming from me but you get the point).

Feel free to think Zeref is weak and never proved anything throughout the manga. That's debatable, but i could agree, or we could get a middle ground. But judging Zeref VS Invel by saying "Invel froze Base Natsu and that same Base Natsu one shot Zeref" is wrong in my opinion. The Base Natsu from the latest chapter was INSANELY ridiculous. It's like saying Zeref is Bakel level sincethey got demolished the same way by the same character in the same mode.
Or saying Ichiya > Jellal because his magic made Acno lose his grip while Jellal's attacks didn't damage him at all. Or that Christina is physically stronger than Igneel. The latest chapter made no sense whatsoever and was in total contradiction with what happened before (Zeref toying with DF Natsu for instance).

I agree that in this tournament we have to judge based on what Mashima wrote. But there's a limit to how much bullshit/PiS/PoF i can take. I respect the fact that you, amongst several others, will take every feat into consideration even those from the latest chapter. I'm not willing to do that, since in my humble opinion, the Zeref VS Natsu ending was incredibly absurd.

I'm not trying to force you feel the same way, in fact i gave up on trying to convince people. That's the reason why i'll stop participating in the tournament.