Hangout Tournament Hangout Thread

[LaGOAT]

hey u guys can give zeref FH he gets no diff by every1 in this round i mean he only oneshots people that are exhausted/injure im sorry he has no feats that are even above wendy and yes im serious about that

 

[Raven]

Only accomplished it with BS guild power, without it he is as oneshottable as God Serena

Still make him the strongest.

 

[Kay3795]

Unlike Natsu, Acno cannot burn magic itself to bits so he's susceptible, in fact powerless against FH Zeref's control over time & space magic. FH Zeref would thus literally fodderstomp Acno.

In terms of power & haxx, Natsu and Zeref are quite literally standing at the pinnacle (minus the Gods) while Acno is just below.

I'm quite certain now there doesn't exist a force in this tournament that can slow Natsu down. Even displacement (Jacob) can't be said to work anymore because Natsu would just resist & burn that magic to bits.

 

[inactive lurker account]

Seeing that feelings and friendship tend to act as force multipliers, this makes me ask if we should also extend the same courtesy to certain antagonists who have solid commitments and emotional attachments. I mean, why assume, in blatantly exceptionalist fashion, that the protagonists are the only ones who can effectively access such power?

What if, instead of appealing to plot-induced stupidity, Zeref can tap into his despair assuming the contradiction curse doesn't get in his way, August can weaponize his loyalty and filial piety, Irene can channel her frustrations, and so on... maybe that would even things out when they have to face Natsu 'empowered by the guild'

 

[Seven777]

Still make him the strongest.

If he solos Acnologia then i'll agree with you, but until then August no diffs Natsu. Guild power isnt his own.

 

[Brandish μ]

It depends on how you want to apply PoF.

Laxus, Gray, Jellal etc have feats influenced by PoF as well. Just not to the same order as Erza and Natsu.

I won't be using 'Makarov's power' or the recent 'Guild power' since I think that amount of PoF is absurd. There's no reasonable argument that can be made for Natsu... he couldn't beat Zeref with Igneel power, but can do so against an improved Zeref with guild power? This isn't the usual PoF spike. This is off the charts. These are probably the only 2 PoF feats I would rule out, which I don't like doing since Hiro made it this way. Maybe I'm just being salty... Idk.

 

[Nemispelled]

Spoiler

Well i wouldn't really call him weak because of that.You may say what am i saying after this chapter.But i am basing this on evidences.


1.I still cannot fathom how a person who survived this attack and still standing gets defeated by Base Natsu.

2.I noticed that Natsu's own hand got burned

Did it ever happen before really?Natsu's own flame got so strong that it burned his own hand.Did it ever happen with DF,END or even with Igneel's Flame ever.No?

3.Zeref without FH overwhelmed Base Natsu but suddenly he got defeated.

Why wouldn't Zeref be weak? He's never shown anything impressive except for his super high durability (which is courtesy to his immortality effect).

I see nothing particularly strong about Zeref's character.

You really cannot sell it to me that Zeref is powerful when he lost to Natsu even after gaining an infinite supply of magic power.

Zeref was practically given the power to be the strongest mage on the continent.

Yet, when he and Natsu clashed evenly, he pitifully lost.

There's no excuse there. His raw power was completely inferior and a total joke all along.


And Natsu's burned hand means nothing. It was all for dramatic effect.

He could still stand, walk, and talk.

With the tumor, he collapsed and fell into a coma.

If we're talking about visual effects here, the tumor is a lot worse, not the burned hand.


We know for a fact that FH Zeref lost to an exhausted Natsu.

That means Zeref is far weaker than he was hyped up and portrayed to be.

Denying that would be denying feats.

I only give credit to people who have proved themselves.



I would even argue that Zeref needs FH in this tournament to just be a decent competitor.

 

[Arjuna]

Why wouldn't Zeref be weak? He's never shown anything impressive except for his super high durability (which is courtesy to his immortality effect).

I see nothing particularly strong about Zeref's character.

You really cannot sell it to me that Zeref is powerful when he lost to Natsu even after gaining an infinite supply of magic power.

Zeref was practically given the power to be the strongest mage on the continent.

Yet, when he and Natsu clashed evenly, he pitifully lost.

There's no excuse there. His raw power was completely inferior and a total joke all along.


And Natsu's burned hand means nothing. It was all for dramatic effect.

He could still stand, walk, and talk.

With the tumor, he collapsed and fell into a coma.

If we're talking about visual effects here, the tumor is a lot worse, not the burned hand.


We know for a fact that FH Zeref lost to an exhausted Natsu.

That means Zeref is far weaker than he was hyped up and portrayed to be.

Denying that would be denying feats.

I only give credit to people who have proved themselves.



I would even argue that Zeref needs FH in this tournament to just be a decent competitor.

Then can you make me understand few things:-

i)The most important question.How can a person who survives direct hit from Igneel's power gets defeated by Base Natsu?


ii)Why did both August and Irene say only Zeref can defeat Acnologia if he gets FH?


iii)How can a weak person injure IgNatsu?


iv)Zeref had overwhelmed Base Natsu and he needed to go DF.Then how is it that Base Natsu defeat Zeref?


v)To me it looked Natsu's flame became strong enough to burn his own hand.And see it's performance.

IgNatsu attack-Zeref still standing

Base Natsu with burning hand-Zeref gets defeated.

However unbelievable it looks it is the fact now.

 

[Nemispelled]

Then can you make me understand few things:-

i)The most important question.How can a person who survives direct hit from Igneel's power gets defeated by Base Natsu?


ii)Why did both August and Irene say only Zeref can defeat Acnologia if he gets FH?


iii)How can a weak person injure IgNatsu?


iv)Zeref had overwhelmed Base Natsu and he needed to go DF.Then how is it that Base Natsu defeat Zeref?


v)To me it looked Natsu's flame became strong enough to burn his own hand.And see it's performance.

IgNatsu attack-Zeref still standing

Base Natsu with burning hand-Zeref gets defeated.

However unbelievable it looks it is the fact now.

Simple.

i.) Triggered Base Natsu >>>> Igneel-Powered Natsu

Mashima says he changes stuff on the spot. This is one of those times.

Not only that, but IgNatsu never got to use his final attack on Zeref since he was abruptly stopped by Happy.


ii.) August and Irene is irrelevant now. They were either guessing or simply wrong.

The manga showed what happened. Those are feats and we take that into account before anybody else's words.

Feats take higher precedence over comments from fictional characters.

We, as readers, know what is the truth now, which is based off of canon evidence.


iii.) IgNatsu wasn't even that injured.

He was far from being defeated...

And Igneel's power only gave him better strength/offensive stats. It doesn't add much to durability.


iv.) I never said Base Natsu...

I said Zeref lost to an exhausted Natsu.

Even if Natsu was in DF, Zeref still should not be losing that battle especially since he has infinite magic power.


v.) Erza's hand got burned too. When she blocked Gray and END's attack, her hands were cracked and scorched.

The visual effects mean little to me.

The only significant thing here is FH Zeref losing pitifully to an exhausted Natsu.

 

[Arjuna]

Simple.

i.) Triggered Base Natsu >>>> Igneel-Powered Natsu

Mashima says he changes stuff on the spot. This is one of those times.

Not only that, but IgNatsu never got to use his final attack on Zeref since he was abruptly stopped by Happy.


ii.) August and Irene is irrelevant now. They were either guessing or simply wrong.

The manga showed what happened. Those are feats and we take that into account before anybody else's words.

Feats take higher precedence over comments from fictional characters.

We, as readers, know what is the truth is now, which is based off of canon evidence.


iii.) IgNatsu wasn't even that injured.

He was far from being defeated...

And Igneel's power only gave him better strength/offensive stats. It doesn't add much to durability.


iv.) I never said Base Natsu...

I said Zeref lost to an exhausted Natsu.

Even if Natsu was in DF, Zeref still should not be losing that battle especially since he has infinite magic power.


v.) Erza's hand got burned too. When she blocked Gray and END's attack, her hands were cracked and scorched.

The visual effects mean little to me.

The only significant thing here is FH Zeref losing pitifully to an exhausted Natsu.

There is difference between Erza burning her hand and Natsu burning.Erza is not a Fire Dragon Slayer and doesn't have immunity to fire.It is just like the time when Natsu found it difficult to completely negate Melt of August.


And secondly,Surviving an attack that burned the whole landscape is not a small feat.

 

[Nemispelled]

There is difference between Erza burning her hand and Natsu burning.Erza is not a Fire Dragon Slayer and doesn't have immunity to fire.It is just like the time when Natsu found it difficult to completely negate Melt of August.


And secondly,Surviving an attack that burned the whole landscape is not a small feat.

Well, being a Fire Dragon Slayer doesn't really make a difference here. Natsu isn't immune to his own fire either because he cannot eat it.

I've never seen a mage injure himself/herself with their own magic on accident.

It's possible that Natsu's hands were burned from the combined clash between Zeref's magic and his own magic.


Natsu found it difficult to negate August's Melt because the pillar was not just simple fire.

It was a blast/nuke, but it had fire properties to it.


Size in this manga doesn't mean much. The strength of the attack is what counts.

So the radius of IgNatsu's flames is kinda pointless.

Ikusatsunagi was huge, but ended up shattering into pieces after one punch.

And a simple flying airship like Christina was able to push the full weight of a dragon like Acnologia into a portal.

 

[Arjuna]

Well, being a Fire Dragon Slayer doesn't really make a difference here. Natsu isn't immune to his own fire either because he cannot eat it.

I've never seen a mage injure himself/herself with their own magic on accident.

It's possible that Natsu's hands were burned from the combined clash between Zeref's magic and his own magic.


Natsu found it difficult to negate August's Melt because the pillar was not just simple fire.

It was a blast/nuke, but it had fire properties to it.


Size in this manga doesn't mean much. The strength of the attack is what counts.

So the radius of IgNatsu's flames is kinda pointless.

Ikusatsunagi was huge, but ended up shattering into pieces after one punch.

And a simple flying airship like Christina was able to push the full weight of a dragon like Acnologia into a portal.

Are you really comparing Ikusa and Igneel's Flame?

Don't forget a Dragon Slayer is always immune to his own element.It is like Gray getting frozen by his own Des Ice.

But anyway this is my last post now.Going in an important business.

 

[Nemispelled]

Are you really comparing Ikusa and Igneel's Flame?

Don't forget a Dragon Slayer is always immune to his own element.It is like Gray getting frozen by his own Des Ice.

But anyway this is my last post now.Going in an important business.

I'm not comparing the two feats. My point is that size doesn't matter if the damage output isn't high.

We judge how powerful an attack is by it's strength, rather than its size...


Demons slayers are different from Dragon Slayers.

But the reason why Gray doesn't get frozen by ice is because he is an Ice Wizard. He was trained by Ur to resist the cold, which is why he has such a high tolerance for it.

 

[Kiki]

Battle 5 & 6 are now open!

 

[Hermit]

@Brandish Serious question here.
Why is DImaria's Age Seal allowed and Zeref isn't allowed to stop time himself? I mean, that's also Age Seal, right?

 

[Demon Hunter]

@Brandish my question is should we restrict base Natsu????

He is too OP and yeah this is a serious question.

--- Double Post Merged, May 21, 2017, Original Post Date: May 21, 2017 ---

And yeah it's getting ridiculous.

After the recent chapter, everyone will vote for Natsu.

That's why I suggest to restrict base Natsu.

 

[Brandish μ]

@Brandish Serious question here.
Why is DImaria's Age Seal allowed and Zeref isn't allowed to stop time himself? I mean, that's also Age Seal, right?

Zeref without time magic is still a top tier in this tournament. Zeref has the most restrictions so it is kinda unfair on him - especially when August/Irene aren't restricted much. I also anticipated that Zeref's time hax abilities were going to be given more of a showing when I made the restrictions, so that played a small part as well.

@Brandish my question is should we restrict base Natsu????

Lol.

I didn't think he'd ever solo Zeref in base form. But the rules are set. It's up to everyone how they look at the recent chapter. I think it's BS. You could even say Lucy helped him... but that's just speculation.

 

[SirSamuel016]

Lol.

I didn't think he'd ever solo Zeref in base form. But the rules are set. It's up to everyone how they look at the recent chapter. I think it's BS. You could even say Lucy helped him... but that's just speculation.

Well he was actually in FDKM when he defeated Zeref so it wasn't base and the power is at least a little bit more justified, albeit still fairly questionable as he's seemingly burnt the magic away.

 

[Brandish μ]

Well he was actually in FDKM when he defeated Zeref so it wasn't base and the power is at least a little bit more justified, albeit still fairly questionable as he's seemingly burnt the magic away.

He was? Meh, it doesn't change anything. He couldn't lay Zeref out before in FDKM with Igneel's MP, there's no justification other than guild flames >> flames from the second strongest character in the series. But I'll save this talk for the actual threads.

 

[Biri Biri]

Was away for a while, and looks like the Laxus vs Gray thread is closed. But it involves two of my favourite characters, I would still hope to share some of my thoughts regarding the match up. Especially considering the manga is concluding, chances to do so will be limited.

Spoiler

Though their feats are not aplenty in the Alvarez invasion arc, they are still mostly incredible.

Natsu sent a a guy with towering physique into the skies with a regular punch, with enough strength to blast him all the way through Ajeel's main airship.

Spoiler

When scaled to the height of the FT guild building, the fleet of airship are seemingly several hundred metres above ground level. This should put Natsu's striking strength far beyond building destruction, and on city level.

Spoiler

During his fight with Gray, Natsu had developed giant claws and his attacks were shrouded in dark flames. In conjunction with his heightened emotions, these should increase his offensive power. He shot himself towards Gray in a clash of blows. And despite the acceleration and momentum Natsu had on his side, Gray could negate and cancel out Natsu's punch with his own while remaining static with solely his strength.

Spoiler

As one would require at least an equal amount of force to nullify an incoming attack, this should reasonably place Gray's physical and striking strength in multi-City level.

This can be reinforced when Gray easily defeated Invel, despite the latter capable of covering Fiore in glaciers.

Spoiler

To be fair, Fiore according to Zeref's estimation was reduced to 1/20th of it's original size after Irene casted Universe One.

Spoiler

Regardless, Magnolia is one of the twenty cities introduced in Fiore. It's safe to surmise Invel has the magical capacity and energy to affect the entire city of Magnolia, if he could do so to a shrunken Fiore. Gray could overpower what Invel self-proclaimed to be his strongest spell, so anything below multi-City for Gray's power and damage output would be hard to accept.

Gray has grown and developed into one of the strongest characters from Ishgar's side, and he could give Laxus a run for his money with regards to strength, stamina and endurance, and pose a credible threat. The guy has suffered grievous wounds, and ignored them to continue fighting. Gray's consistency should place him in the highest echelon when it comes performing despite debilitating condition. But then again, so does Laxus. And in Laxus' argument, he is even more rounded out when it comes to attack potency. His fight with Wahl shows Laxus displaying a sharper degree of reaction and velocity, which puts him ahead of Gray and Natsu, and an even more dangerous force to be reckon with.

Spoiler

Gray is powerful, but still a man. Laxus is a friggin' beast. And it wouldn't be fair to see him not even making it to the last 8. So he gets my vote.

If any mod wishes to move my post into the vs thread which has been locked, please feel free to do so.