Discussion Traumerei vs Revolution

[Shadowlord123]

Curious to see how people scale the Revolution in general. Urek seemed to give them some hype back against Luslec, and the members showcased had pretty interesting feats.

- Scenario: Alternate reality where full power Traumerei and his evil spirit cross over to deal with Revolution. Urek doesn't come, Gustang isn't there, and no one else on that battlefield (Robadon, Proust, Yama, and others) can intervene.

- Knowledge: Canon. Neither party knows much about the other's specific abilities.

- Members: Traumerei (full power) vs The Boss + 10 FH replacements (including Ratna Gra, Astronaut, and Kirin) + Subordinates (let's assume each FH replacement got 2 subordinates of similar strength to the lightning girl and Jade; that'd make a total of 20).

If you think it's too one-sided in favour of Traumerei, add Luslec to Revolution's side. If it's still too one-sided, downscale Traumerei to his nerfed self (he can still use 2D Disconnection, Valhalla, and the other Shinheuh).

If you think it's too one-sided in favour of Revolution, add Gustang on Traumerei's side. If it's still too one-sided, add the full armies of both Great Families + current Yama.

Immortality Contract is taken away from any FH.

Thoughts?

 

[Ray Barracuda]

Ma nigga what is this absolute slaughter fest you're serving up to Traum here man.


His stray aura nearly wiped their asses from existence.


They get bitched to death.

 

[Jackjohsnon]

Traumerei wins all the scenarios and I think he can win with the same release he did at Nest. Even If the creatures are fodders, they are immortal. At some point, Revos will die, and their spells will be useless too.

I don't think Valhala is needed to win, but If the goal is to win fast, then use It too.

 

[Demonspeed]

Traumerei wins with ease in all scenarios. They are strong, but strong Traumerei is in a different realm. Urek's attack would have killed them all. It's not an attack any of them could have handled.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2025, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2025 ---

Traumerei wins all the scenarios and I think he can win with the same release he did at Nest. Even If the creatures are fodders, they are immortal. At some point, Revos will die, and their spells will be useless too.

I don't think Valhala is needed to win, but If the goal is to win fast, then use It too.

Yes, the All Creatures from the Nest would kill them all. We have also seen him demolish Gustang's army with sheer number. Valhalla is overkill but Valhalla also has a charm , which makes things even worse.

 

[Lonatian]

Traumerei would easily win without a doubt in any scenario.
Traumerei is a strategic thinking warrior. Not the type to say "don't think, just punch".
Luslec would definitely be humiliated a second time if he faced Traumerei.

 

[Anne isn't a TT]

Revs don't hold a candle to Rei unless the real one appears. Only an irregular can stop the rampage of another irregular.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2025, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2025 ---

Speaking of Revs, we do know there are many boss atleast there are 3 of them and they used to fight each other. So, they should have their own men. This brings me to the question, do every boss have 10 people who wannabe GFLs?

 

[Lonatian]

Speaking of Revs, we do know there are many boss atleast there are 3 of them and they used to fight each other. So, they should have their own men. This brings me to the question, do every boss have 10 people who wannabe GFLs?

I don't think everyone has the goal of becoming 10 FHs. Their main goal up to now is still to take revenge on those who abandoned them.

Or in another way of thinking, on that ship were 10 people from Red Dump who were chosen to become the new 10 FHs.

 

[Anne isn't a TT]

I don't think everyone has the goal of becoming 10 FHs. Their main goal up to now is still to take revenge on those who abandoned them.

Or in another way of thinking, on that ship were 10 people from Red Dump who were chosen to become the new 10 FHs.

Do U believe all 10 will survive at the Eos? I believe the GF system will be abolished by that time? Wonder how they are planning to destroy the families. They had to give one seat to Kirin for LPB family to fall. Gussy directly supported bellerire in turn revs. One thing common between bellerire and Kirin was they were overseeing the family at that time as they were placed at the highest hierarchy after FL.

 

[Lonatian]

Do U believe all 10 will survive at the Eos? I believe the GF system will be abolished by that time? Wonder how they are planning to destroy the families. They had to give one seat to Kirin for LPB family to fall. Gussy directly supported bellerire in turn revs. One thing common between bellerire and Kirin was they were overseeing the family at that time as they were placed at the highest hierarchy after FL.

I'm not sure what you mean.

Who do you think died?

Kirin was obviously invited by Red Dump (or Bellerire). So Kirin having a place in the new 10 FHs was their deal. Similar to how Captain made a deal with Maschenny.
As I said, it's not certain that the goal of all Red Dump's people is to become the new 10 FHs, but it's true that the people chosen to become the 10 FHs are clearly very strong.

If you think they'll give up on that plan, that's another matter. But I don't think they'll give up, if someone dies, they'll find a replacement.

 

[undefined]

Traumerei low diffs without even using disconnect or valhalla

 

[Anne isn't a TT]

I'm not sure what you mean.

Who do you think died?

Kirin was obviously invited by Red Dump (or Bellerire). So Kirin having a place in the new 10 FHs was their deal. Similar to how Captain made a deal with Maschenny.
As I said, it's not certain that the goal of all Red Dump's people is to become the new 10 FHs, but it's true that the people chosen to become the 10 FHs are clearly very strong.

If you think they'll give up on that plan, that's another matter. But I don't think they'll give up, if someone dies, they'll find a replacement.

I was asking if GFLs wannabe like Neil and Ratna will survive at the end of the series. Don't think FUG and even WHS and maybe Workshop will support that idea of them replacing GWs. The way I see it that system of GFs will be abolished by that time.

As for the place regarding, like it took the inside information from Kirin to make LPB family fall. Likewise Bellerire was directly supporting Revs. Do U think they will give out offer to other family reagent who manage the family like Kirin?

 

[Lonatian]

I was asking if GFLs wannabe like Neil and Ratna will survive at the end of the series. Don't think FUG and even WHS and maybe Workshop will support that idea of them replacing GWs. The way I see it that system of GFs will be abolished by that time.

My opinion is that they are not dead. And even if they were, like I said, they would find a replacement to continue that plan.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2025, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2025 ---

As for the place regarding, like it took the inside information from Kirin to make LPB family fall. Likewise Bellerire was directly supporting Revs. Do U think they will give out offer to other family reagent who manage the family like Kirin?

Kirin and Bellerire are special cases.
Bel was brought in by Gustang to destroy the 10 great families.
As for Lo Po Bia, it was Traumerei who was too distant from his children, causing them to dislike Traumerei.
This may not apply to other families. Even for the Lo Po Bia and Po Bidau families, Proust, Dumas, and Lobadon were not traitors.

If you ask whether there are traitors within the 10 great families, of course there are. As for whether they are regents, that is not certain.

 

[arrowofsky]

Traumerei would easily win without a doubt in any scenario.
Traumerei is a strategic thinking warrior. Not the type to say "don't think, just punch".
Luslec would definitely be humiliated a second time if he faced Traumerei.

I am sure Luslec would definitely not be humiliated, because he was against not only Traumerei, but Gustang and Urek together and snatched V from them without an issue. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the times Ameuz was alive, it is more than a caring or not caring thing. Moreover, I disagree with Traumerei being a strategic warrior, especially when he first encountered Gustang and fought in webtoon, he aimlessly sent some animals again and again and again and Gustang kept saying "they are still trash no matter how you combine or enhance them, I can just burn, is this place a landfill?". The final fight of Gustang and Traumerei was affected by a common manga lore of showing all types of attacks from weakest to strongest, and for example, the way he was trying to handle Hunos was anything but strategic. But yeah, he is good at chess.

Coming to the OP's question though, I don't yet know any way Luslec would help Revs or cause ruckus in Lo Po Bia. He can individually take down anything other than Traumerei but that is not the point. He does not seem to have a very large-wide attack types, too. In the end, he would take down several people and get bored or tired and escape, most probably.
As for the revs, they also generally have one-to-one fighters. They just go assassinate startled people. Revs would probably be an excellent slayer source for FUG, but nothing against Traumerei.

 

[Lonatian]

I am sure Luslec would definitely not be humiliated, because he was against not only Traumerei, but Gustang and Urek together and snatched V from them without an issue. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the times Ameuz was alive, it is more than a caring or not caring thing. Moreover, I disagree with Traumerei being a strategic warrior, especially when he first encountered Gustang and fought in webtoon, he aimlessly sent some animals again and again and again and Gustang kept saying "they are still trash no matter how you combine or enhance them, I can just burn, is this place a landfill?". The final fight of Gustang and Traumerei was affected by a common manga lore of showing all types of attacks from weakest to strongest, and for example, the way he was trying to handle Hunos was anything but strategic. But yeah, he is good at chess.

Coming to the OP's question though, I don't yet know any way Luslec would help Revs or cause ruckus in Lo Po Bia. He can individually take down anything other than Traumerei but that is not the point. He does not seem to have a very large-wide attack types, too. In the end, he would take down several people and get bored or tired and escape, most probably.
As for the revs, they also generally have one-to-one fighters. They just go assassinate startled people. Revs would probably be an excellent slayer source for FUG, but nothing against Traumerei.

Luslec is no match for Traumerei at any point. I don't understand why you would include Gustang and Urek in this scenario. I'm talking about Traumerei facing Luslec in a 1:1 fight, Luslec would lose miserably the second time. Of all the abilities Luslec has (including spells), none can tank Disconnect/Rupture.

Hunos is basically an illusion, attacking an illusion is useless. Traumerei wasn't trying to kill Hunos, he was just looking for the real Gustang. Gustang used his arm to trick Traumerei and he fell for it. That was Gustang's good handling of the situation, not Traumerei's bad.

As for Traumerei constantly summoning creatures to attack Gustang even though it's not really effective, it's because Traumerei's power is basically Anima. There's no loss in spamming creatures endlessly that never die, not to mention he's upgrading it, not repeating a shinheuh.
Disconnect/Rupture is Traumerei's strongest move. Once deployed, he's determined to kill Gustang (and he actually manages to decapitate Gustang).
As for Valhalla, even Gustang is rarely seen, which just shows the upgrade Traumerei uses.

Gustang is the one who's less tactical than Traumerei. He has a whole library but he spams fire and dances with a jade awakening stick. Even Blossom's spark is something he accidentally realized he had.

 

[Demonspeed]

I am sure Luslec would definitely not be humiliated, because he was against not only Traumerei, but Gustang and Urek together and snatched V from them without an issue. A lot of water has passed under the bridge since the times Ameuz was alive, it is more than a caring or not caring thing. Moreover, I disagree with Traumerei being a strategic warrior, especially when he first encountered Gustang and fought in webtoon, he aimlessly sent some animals again and again and again and Gustang kept saying "they are still trash no matter how you combine or enhance them, I can just burn, is this place a landfill?". The final fight of Gustang and Traumerei was affected by a common manga lore of showing all types of attacks from weakest to strongest, and for example, the way he was trying to handle Hunos was anything but strategic. But yeah, he is good at chess.

Coming to the OP's question though, I don't yet know any way Luslec would help Revs or cause ruckus in Lo Po Bia. He can individually take down anything other than Traumerei but that is not the point. He does not seem to have a very large-wide attack types, too. In the end, he would take down several people and get bored or tired and escape, most probably.
As for the revs, they also generally have one-to-one fighters. They just go assassinate startled people. Revs would probably be an excellent slayer source for FUG, but nothing against Traumerei.

Managing to escape with V isn't relevant in a fight. Revolution escaped Urek too, they still get stomped. No Towerborn can deal with All Creatures's release. He also has Disconnection, his countless Shinheuhs etc.

Traumerei's Shinheuhs were fodder to Gustang, but it's because it's Gustang and the former wasn't focused most of the times when he faced Baam or Towerborns(plot armor). Even Vanquish's short skirmish with Dumas handicapped the latter.

 

[arrowofsky]

Both of you missing the point.
I did not mention any one-on-one Luslec Traumerei at all. I just don't see any canonical way for him to be as humiliated as before, of course he is not an asset against fighting Traumerei as far as we know his capabilities. You can wish the rest.
-For Traumerei endlessly spamming animals even if it is useless because he is an anima shows how unstrategic he is. That is that.
-"Hunos as an imagination." is a huge misunderstanding. At that chapter, Gustang was talking about imagination is the biggest power blabbering, not specifically for hunos as an imagination. As we already talked, there is an intangibility concept of him because it is from outside of the tower (not that Gustang imagined it, he imagined lots of others without the intangibility), but there are two plot holes regarding this: as you can not both physically do something and still be intangible at the same time, and that irregulars are all out of tower so disconnection should not have worked on Gustang as well. You are mistakenly cling the word imagination there, it just signifies Gustang can spawn things right out of his ass, nothing more. Finally, comparatively Gustang's being less strategic does not put Traumerei as a strategic char.
-Revos could not escape Urek if not Luslec interfered there. This is what I already stated above, adding Luslec to the equation, with what we have seen up to know, only put an escaping window and some attrition if not all, nothing against Traumerei. It does not help fighting, and I said it above.

"No towerborn can deal with all creatures", we don't know. Maybe you can tire Traumerei out and he will stop regenerating them at some point. This statement is beyond the webtoon.

 

[Lonatian]

Both of you missing the point.
I did not mention any one-on-one Luslec Traumerei at all. I just don't see any canonical way for him to be as humiliated as before, of course he is not an asset against fighting Traumerei as far as we know his capabilities. You can wish the rest.
-For Traumerei endlessly spamming animals even if it is useless because he is an anima shows how unstrategic he is. That is that.
-"Hunos as an imagination." is a huge misunderstanding. At that chapter, Gustang was talking about imagination is the biggest power blabbering, not specifically for hunos as an imagination. As we already talked, there is an intangibility concept of him because it is from outside of the tower (not that Gustang imagined it, he imagined lots of others without the intangibility), but there are two plot holes regarding this: as you can not both physically do something and still be intangible at the same time, and that irregulars are all out of tower so disconnection should not have worked on Gustang as well. You are mistakenly cling the word imagination there, it just signifies Gustang can spawn things right out of his ass, nothing more. Finally, comparatively Gustang's being less strategic does not put Traumerei as a strategic char.
-Revos could not escape Urek if not Luslec interfered there. This is what I already stated above, adding Luslec to the equation, with what we have seen up to know, only put an escaping window and some attrition if not all, nothing against Traumerei. It does not help fighting, and I said it above.

"No towerborn can deal with all creatures", we don't know. Maybe you can tire Traumerei out and he will stop regenerating them at some point. This statement is beyond the webtoon.

I'm talking about one on one, why are you quoting me but applying it to your scenario?

What's your problem with the strongest Anima user using Anima? It doesn't work on Gustang because Gustang is stronger than it, not Traumerei using the same one. From normal shinheuh to 7 beasts to Megalodon to Valhalla are all Anima. Traumerei upgrades his creatures to fight Gustang.

Don't you know the difference between "imagination" and "illusion"? I said Hunos is basically an illusion, it creates illusions, uses illusions, etc.
Basically Traumerei's attacks don't work because he's attacking an illusion.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2025, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2025 ---

I still don't understand.
Do you complain like that about swordsmen using swords, spearmen using spears?
It's absurd that you complain about the strongest Anima user in history that he was ineffective.
For example Eduan couldn't defeat Zahard with a lightning spear or Hon couldn't defeat Zahard with a sword and then you say they're showing a lack of strategy.

 

[Anne isn't a TT]

For Traumerei endlessly spamming animals even if it is useless because he is an anima shows how unstrategic he is. That is that

No bruh. He used his animals to create a mage which he believed can hold off Gussy, a FL for a while and it was Gussy's precaution measure that he had cursed holan before hand or else, Rei would have finished the game right there. If he creates a mage and traps Mirchea, I don't think he can come out of it. Not to mention if he surrounds the mage with incantation of rupture, even if he gets out of the mage, it is certain death for him. We also know Rei never used Valhalla after the war and he never believed he will need one later. Just that mindset shows how trifle towerborns are to FLs.

 

[Demonspeed]

Both of you missing the point.
I did not mention any one-on-one Luslec Traumerei at all. I just don't see any canonical way for him to be as humiliated as before, of course he is not an asset against fighting Traumerei as far as we know his capabilities. You can wish the rest.
-For Traumerei endlessly spamming animals even if it is useless because he is an anima shows how unstrategic he is. That is that.
-"Hunos as an imagination." is a huge misunderstanding. At that chapter, Gustang was talking about imagination is the biggest power blabbering, not specifically for hunos as an imagination. As we already talked, there is an intangibility concept of him because it is from outside of the tower (not that Gustang imagined it, he imagined lots of others without the intangibility), but there are two plot holes regarding this: as you can not both physically do something and still be intangible at the same time, and that irregulars are all out of tower so disconnection should not have worked on Gustang as well. You are mistakenly cling the word imagination there, it just signifies Gustang can spawn things right out of his ass, nothing more. Finally, comparatively Gustang's being less strategic does not put Traumerei as a strategic char.
-Revos could not escape Urek if not Luslec interfered there. This is what I already stated above, adding Luslec to the equation, with what we have seen up to know, only put an escaping window and some attrition if not all, nothing against Traumerei. It does not help fighting, and I said it above.

"No towerborn can deal with all creatures", we don't know. Maybe you can tire Traumerei out and he will stop regenerating them at some point. This statement is beyond the webtoon.

Canonical reason? The power gap. Traumerei can annihilate Revolution and adding Luslec wouldn't change a thing.

I didn't say anything about he being very strategic, he was a step behind Gustang all the time anyway. But there is no need for strategy there. He can annihilate them all simply by releasing All Creatures. The only reason why the people at the Nest didn't die is because he was interrupted by the news about Gustang.

Traumerei isn't Urek. He doesn't adjust his power level for fun. No one has feats good enough to claim that they can match the raw power of Traumerei's Shinwonryu.

 

[arrowofsky]

Let me be so specific with quotes now

I'm talking about one on one, why are you quoting me but applying it to your scenario?

What's your problem with the strongest Anima user using Anima? It doesn't work on Gustang because Gustang is stronger than it, not Traumerei using the same one. From normal shinheuh to 7 beasts to Megalodon to Valhalla are all Anima. Traumerei upgrades his creatures to fight Gustang.

Don't you know the difference between "imagination" and "illusion"? I said Hunos is basically an illusion, it creates illusions, uses illusions, etc.
Basically Traumerei's attacks don't work because he's attacking an illusion.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 10, 2025, Original Post Date: Apr 10, 2025 ---

I still don't understand.
Do you complain like that about swordsmen using swords, spearmen using spears?
It's absurd that you complain about the strongest Anima user in history that he was ineffective.
For example Eduan couldn't defeat Zahard with a lightning spear or Hon couldn't defeat Zahard with a sword and then you say they're showing a lack of strategy.

https://comick.io/comic/02-tower-of-god/7EwjI6TC-chapter-639-en

This translation says imagination, and I am basing it always. It is a wind god, not a magician or trickster, it creates negative or positive pressures to deal with things, not illusions. "Concept of the wind blowing outside the tower" is what I am using. I don't know the exact korean word but it looks like a bad translation as an illusion, there is no illusion here. Traumerei once says illusion to derogate/mock.
I am not complaining about swordsmen using a sword, if he does not change tactics/strategy for a while and insisting on using it, it is foolish. Analogy of Eduan or Hon vs. Zahard is unrelated here. Traumerei only very lately started to use his actually useful powers, malice wall, disconnection, valhalla, but the rest's worthlessness was apparent even from the first case.

No bruh. He used his animals to create a mage which he believed can hold off Gussy, a FL for a while and it was Gussy's precaution measure that he had cursed holan before hand or else, Rei would have finished the game right there. If he creates a mage and traps Mirchea, I don't think he can come out of it. Not to mention if he surrounds the mage with incantation of rupture, even if he gets out of the mage, it is certain death for him. We also know Rei never used Valhalla after the war and he never believed he will need one later. Just that mindset shows how trifle towerborns are to FLs.

Holan thing was interesting but as we have seen from Hunos, Gustang could just passed through it, I doubt it would hold him for a while. Yet Traumerei did not really know this intangibility card and was really an interesting move, still though, some precautions, not a strategy. I don't know if Luslec once trapped there, can get out or not, whether he can activate dark charge/bright charge within the maze. Obviously he can't pierce it, even blatantly assuming an all-piercing hook, then, shinwonryu-assisted infinite healing.

Canonical reason? The power gap. Traumerei can annihilate Revolution and adding Luslec wouldn't change a thing.

I didn't say anything about he being very strategic, he was a step behind Gustang all the time anyway. But there is no need for strategy there. He can annihilate them all simply by releasing All Creatures. The only reason why the people at the Nest didn't die is because he was interrupted by the news about Gustang.

Traumerei isn't Urek. He doesn't adjust his power level for fun. No one has feats good enough to claim that they can match the raw power of Traumerei's Shinwonryu.

I already agreed with adding Luslec will not change the outcome. Furthermore, I don't see any point of killing family members as long as you don't have a way to kill a FH. It is like blowing cold air to a very big, boiling cauldron without doing anything to the flame beneath. If Revos did not have any way to kill a FH (harboring a hidden irregular or whatever), I could care less about them. I also don't discuss on strategy term considering your post. I just don't give too much emphasis on all creatures. Yama kept ripping them apart, yeah, he can't do anything as while he exhausting himself it is a flick of a wrist for Traumerei, but this is not raw power, it is Traumerei's attrition.