Discussion Underrated and Overrated

[Fuuji Genichiro]

Not true even without POP Tezuka and Ryoma would beat Yukimura 6-0.

maybe at the beginning of NPOT, but at this point in time no, neither require POP to beat yukimura.

---------- Post added at 10:11 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:05 PM ----------

Rikkaidai as a school is stronger than Seigaku, not individually. That's why 5 MSers were chosen compared to 2 from Seigaku.

considering that now both ryoma and tezuka are stronger then yukimura seigaku wins the match 4-1 or 5-0
ryoma beats yuki
tezuka (current tezuka anyway) beats sanada
fuuji beats any other rikkai player and and momo-Kaidoh pair wont lose to ANY rikkai pair with BJK being unreturnable, and Boomerang snake being a threat at ALL times
dream team will seal the point with syncro unless niou plays against them, niou wont win against anybody else anyways

---------- Post added at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 PM ----------

If you want to talk Seigaku vs Rikkai now? Assuming the exact same lineup as before.

S1: I always thought Yukimura's power was kind of bogus because he's got nothing if his yips doesn't work. Ryoma was always stronger than him even without PoP if yips didn't kick in, which is pretty hilarious that you'd get scared of someone after seeing that you're about to score the next point with Saiki. I'm guessing Tezuka can pull the same trick too even without PoP.

S2: Niou is just a special case because whenever he loses it's just that he can't copy well enough even though recently we're told he can copy Tezuka almost as well as the real thing. I'm just going to call this a draw even though Niou should be able to beat virtually anybody by copying someone like Volk. All he has to do is go to an ATP tour when Volk (or someone better) is playing and then nobody outside the pros would remotely have a chance of beating him.

S3: Based on their displayed powers Sanada would win this very easily because as soon as Sanada realizes that he just has to hit the ball straight down instead of left/right/up with Black Aura that means every shot Sanada hits must be volleyed which, even in POT, is a very weak shot. Now since Sanada is a guy who plays by some strange code of honor (maybe hitting the ball straight down is considered dirty) maybe he won't do that and then get spanked by Tezuka. But Sanada playing 'dirty' will always win, even in POT. You just can't stop Black Aura if he's hitting the ball straight down every time.

D1: I think Rikkai's D1 is greatly overrated and they certainly haven't displayed anything that'd live up to a reputation of the #1 doubles in the nation. Heck, Marui went to look for a new partner in the U17 camp. Golden Pair is kind of overrated but synchro will still be more than enough to win.

D2: If we're using NPOT then Kaidoh has somehow lost some of his moves and is much worse compared to nationals, so Seigaku will lose badly because their team was worse than what they had before (which they still lost) even if we assumed the Rikkai D2 has not improved any (and they did).

So that'd be 2-2-1 and I guess it comes down to which Niou Fuji happened to draw.

Niou can only copy a player to the limit of his own abilities, i.e the reason he cant copy yukimura or sanada, trying to copy volk means he will be stuck playing "simple tennis" -not even a single point against fuuji. also, with momo-kaidoh playing doubles, we have inui as reserve, meaning a draw in any scenario guarantees a seigaku win

 

[-Ken-]

I actually believe that Ryoma and Tezuka are stronger than the entire Rikkai team combine (Look at the killer toaster chapter. That's 24 potential 1st stringer level fodderized).

And as for Momoshiro, yes, I'm now 100% certain that the match doesn't end at the first BJK point. Unless the 1st stringer went crazy and beat Momoshiro and Kenya up even when the match is over.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

My entire point was no Tezuka/Ryoma = Seigaku is weak. I don't know what you're trying to justify by saying the other Seigaku members are any good.
Fuji only defeated Niou because of plot. If he didn't win, Seigaku would be nationals runner-ups, not the winners. Seigaku are by far the most overrated school because of plot. Rikkaidai would be overrated if they were the main school, but they're not. The central will always be overrated in terms of their plot powerups and how annoying their personality is.

Why am I excluding Ryoma and Tezuka? They're not playing for Japan. This entire time, I'm talking about the MS representatives for Japan. I don't think anyone even saw that. Seigaku is still weak. That's why 5 Rikkaidai, and 3 Shitenhoji were picked instead of the rest of Seigaku. Finally get it?

that would be a good argument if the coach objectively picked the best team.....which is bullshit
Momoshiro is better than EVERYONE below fuuji in the list, including akaya (rikkai) and Gin (shiten), also, niou is obviously a cheap excuse to not pick kikumaru and develop another non-seigaku character , and niou is nowhere near as fast or flexible as the real eiji, meaning the coach simply weakened the golden pair. the argument of how the team was picked fails almost exclusively because akaya was picked over renji, proving that the team wasnt picked in objective strength.

---------- Post added at 10:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:30 PM ----------

Aren't you underestimating Yukimura ? Though I agree Ryoma and Tezuka would beat him, but not with a too severe score.

he might take individual points, but he wont take whole games

---------- Post added at 10:37 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:32 PM ----------

Ryoma pisses me off the most in the original winning matches he had no to right win if not for plot.

rikkai are only as strong as they are because of the final boss status, in fact,, yukimura losing a single game in the camp would defy his whole "demigod" status,

---------- Post added at 10:49 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:37 PM ----------

Last comment for now- the niou argument is old, tezuka is a player that loses once his techniques have all been destroyed, fuuji;s is the type of player that adapts to every situation and evolves,so once the ever evolving fuuji has countered niou's half asses tezuka impersonation, the match was over, notice how niou didnt try impersonating sanada (who at the time was clearly superior to tezuka) or yukimura (same as before), it was because he couldnt, sanada's furinkazan was simply the release of his own monstrous physical capabilities, which niou couldnt even dream of attaining, in fact once these abilities are countered, its just nious own skill/power/speed, which isnt enough (then or now) to give fuuji a hard time

fuuji is the type of player to be beaten with physical stats, and pure accuracy, and if those arent enough, any special tech's you throw at him will die after a game or two
E.g, atobe beats fuuji because his physical prowess, accuracy and skill are independent of his tech's, same with yukimura and toyoma and sanada. players like marui or niou however go to die against fuuji, whenever fuuji is seen to have increased his physical stats, its a disproportionate leap in overall strength in comparison to the typical player powerup,
Atobe rulez

 

[-Ken-]

that would be a good argument if the coach objectively picked the best team.....which is bullshit

Agree with almot every point but this. The coach pick also based on potential as well. Not just current strength, but how much they might grow in the future.

 

[ybr99]

Momo is weaker than gin without a question. There is a reason why gin was picked to play Duke he is the number 1 power player. He would destroy momo 6-0. BJK doesn't come close to 108th lvl.

So "potentially" oishi or akaya will be able to beat tachibana, momo, chitose, renji, or any other high level player. That is in doubles or singles.
Either these players are learning some crazy move that is impossible to return or the coach is downright stupid.

 

[-Ken-]

Momo is weaker than gin without a question. There is a reason why gin was picked to play Duke he is the number 1 power player. He would destroy momo 6-0. BJK doesn't come close to 108th lvl.

It does come close, I believe. Do you think Gin is stronger than #18-#19 1st stringer? I don't think he is. Also consider before that Chitose/Tachibana was only 3rd court pair at best.

So "potentially" oishi or akaya will be able to beat tachibana, momo, chitose, renji, or a ny other high level player. That is in doubles or singles.
Either these players are learning some crazy move that is impossible to return or the coach is downright stupid.

Except the coach *is* Konomi and Konomi is the god of this manga and the creator of the world we're reading. He's not downright stupid. You're underrating Oishi and Akaya potential by far. There's a reason he's the head coach and no on on this forum is a head coach *of their nation* I assume.

 

[ChinkyCandie]

Momo is weaker than gin without a question. There is a reason why gin was picked to play Duke he is the number 1 power player. He would destroy momo 6-0. BJK doesn't come close to 108th lvl.

So "potentially" oishi or akaya will be able to beat tachibana, momo, chitose, renji, or any other high level player. That is in doubles or singles.
Either these players are learning some crazy move that is impossible to return or the coach is downright stupid.

Agreed.

---------- Post added at 04:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:07 PM ----------

Just wanted to add in: Niou IS a better choice than Kikumaru. He and Bunta and the best doubles partners anyone can have. Put them both together and you have two doubles specialist = best MSer doubles combo.

I never accepted Akaya as part of the team but I'm sure he'll get an upgrade. That's why he's ranked so low. Hell, Nakagauchi and Akaya are the only people I'm still questioning. I'm actually sure its their voice actors. Showtaro Morikubo is a hugely popular and talented voice actor. While Nakagauchi's voice actor is a newbie.

 

[-Ken-]

Niou is better than Kikumaru, in both doubles and singles. He's a different tier of character altogether.

 

[Fuuji Genichiro]

Niou is better than Kikumaru, in both doubles and singles. He's a different tier of character altogether.

wasnt disputing this, i was simply saying that konomi cheated his way into not picking kikumaru, and as a result he weakened the golden pair, ALOT, as for gin,
Speed: 1
Technique: 2
Mental: 5
Stamina: 2
Power:5

ASSUMING that Hado is stronger than a ......interdimensional move (which i highly doubt), there is still the problem that gin has that duke doesnt,
Duke is a lightning bolt, gin is the slowest Mschooler,
apart from having a overall higher base stat with gin even getting that extra boost from his mental, momoshiro just overall a better player.
but whats spamming the hado spam? simple
-hado require time to position his body the right way which first requires
-getting to the ball on foot in the first place, since power shots are like this, the directions of the shot is easy to see
- if he doesnt get enough time with the stance (same as duke) the shot will either be misplaced or weaker

meaning placing shots he will have to run around for weakens the power of his shots(preserving the stamina of his opponents) and disrupts his flow and forces him to run around. considering that his serves arent very hard to return, momoshiro can simply steal every serve from gin by returning with a snake
gins one in speed wont be catching any snakes, and even considering that he does there is also the fact that gins shots from having less time to do hado and the inaccuracy due to the added spin on the ball will result in weaker shots, i need not say more. as for momo's serve, gin can nevr do 108th hado on return simply because of the unpredictability and speed of the serve, He will get in a powerful hado nonetheless, but not anything that momo cant return with another snake or a simple volley (not saying it has to be an accurate volley) just needs to not go to the baseline.

stamina is essentially the killer, if he cant blow away momoshiro's racket and goes into a rally (even if he scores in those rallies or has a slighter edge) he will tire himself out and momo's higher base and superiority on an all round basis will win him the game.

i somehow feel that you guys should hold back on the oishi hate, none of the mentioned characters can go into synchro AT WILL , also, he has that 4 in tech and stamina. obviously a better doubles choice.

back to akaya...he already got an upgrade, angel mode , and he still sucks(it seems that shiraishi got one too because he was suckish in the shuffle match too.)

Not saying niou isnt a better choice than eiji, saying that niou is an excuse to not pick eiji too, as oishi will suck with any other doubles partner, and they are using a weaker version of the dream pair (unless niou uses tezuka and goes 1v2)

 

[ybr99]

I don't hate oishi or akaya they just aren't the right picks. Oishi is a good supporting doubles player but he can't compare to kite or other supporting doubles. Akaya will not play doubles unless with niou or maybe sanada because him and shiraishi is just not good enough of a pair. So with niou it can be him and renji and he will also listen to sanada. In singles he might get a chance to play IF the coaches don't care that he uses Devil because that is likely.

---------- Post added at 11:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 AM ----------

Also duke had to go all out against gin which means gin is VERY strong

 

[LetalHawk]

I don't hate oishi or akaya they just aren't the right picks. Oishi is a good supporting doubles player but he can't compare to kite or other supporting doubles. Akaya will not play doubles unless with niou or maybe sanada because him and shiraishi is just not good enough of a pair. So with niou it can be him and renji and he will also listen to sanada. In singles he might get a chance to play IF the coaches don't care that he uses Devil because that is likely.

---------- Post added at 11:46 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 AM ----------

Also duke had to go all out against gin which means gin is VERY strong

Gin is in the team because of two things:

1. He made the strongest power player of the U-17 camp go all out, and that's a pretty impressive feat (not counting Duke's destroyer mode which is a boost to his full power).

2. You don't see a match between a power player and other that isn't a power player, so that's why I think they chosed Gin.

 

[Anera]

Oishi is a good supporting doubles player but he can't compare to kite or other supporting doubles.

About that, I think Oishi is a more malleable player than Kite. The latter is more skilled in terms of techniques but I consider that Oishi is able to adapt at any situation, and above all, at all kind of players. And unlike other players who seem to reach their limit (but I'm not the author so I don't know what he have in store for them), Oishi has the opportunity to develop his abilities in a greatest way because he's mistakenly considered as a second-rate player. I'm sure he will be full of surprises during the tournament.

(and I didn't mention Synchro, of course)

 

[ybr99]

Niou can synchro with almost anyone because he can become almost anyone, so that make oishi useless.

 

[Hardy]

I'll reply to many other posts later but now I'm just too lazy.

Akaya will not play doubles unless with niou or maybe sanada because him and shiraishi is just not good enough of a pair.

...Why? They apparently did better than the overrated pair formed by Chitose and the guy in your avy.

 

[ybr99]

Shiraishi/akaya had trouble with D2 of 3rd court they are not ready to play against top tier players. (Or at least with akaya they aren't because he is the weak link)
He is better in singles than double unless with renji, so you can put him with niou instead. I also think he would be a good pair with sanada.
Chitose/tachibana came very close to beating to D1 who was way better than D2. D1 had synchro so you can't say that akaya/shiraishi are better when they played a worse team.

 

[-Ken-]

Hmm, by trouble it means when Shiraishi is playing around due to his promise with his coach. Other than that Shiraishi/Akaya actually 6-0 their opponent.

And yes, we can say that Kirihara/Shiraishi is better. Why? They got select by coach over WoK. Their result is better. Their potential is better. D1 is probably stronger than D2 pair, but it seem the coach decide 6-0ing D2 pair is more impressive feat than losing to D1 pair.

 

[ybr99]

Shiraishi is better akaya should not have been picked it's because he is/was a main character.

 

[Hardy]

How is Akaya more ¨main¨ than Tachibana, Chitose or hell, Kaidou and Momo?

 

[-Ken-]

Shiraishi is better akaya should not have been picked it's because he is/was a main character.

He's more main than Momoshiro and Kaidoh, really?

---------- Post added at 07:58 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:54 PM ----------

Anyways,

Seigaku is underrated
Rikkai is overrated
WoK is overrated

Do I miss anything?

 

[ybr99]

Hes more of the anti-ryoma. They were the ones being compared throughout the first half of PoT and he is the one who helped ryoma get muga. Momo and kaidou should have been picked over oishi. Also they can't have to many seigaku players because this series is about MSers not schools. Although rikkai still has to be the invincible school so they automatically get the most players even when they shouldn't. Also akaya is popular.

---------- Post added at 08:08 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:02 PM ----------

Seigaku is not underrated. Right now they can beat any team. It's that people dislike them because it is impossible for ryoma,tezuka,fuji, or golden pair to lose and with momo and kaidou they automatically beat any team. People want a good match not some one sided beat down. Unless other schools get a powerup it's not fair.