Politics United States Presidential Election Thread

[Franckie]

The same people who buy the stupid "experience" argument.

Experience? That word reminds me of one of the most well-qualified individuals for the presidency who ever existed. Hee had the following achievements on his resume.

• Served 10+ yrs. in the U.S. Congress
• Served as an ambassador to Russia
• Served as a potential nominee for the U.S. Supreme Court
• Served 4 yrs. as Secretary of State

Who is the guy? James Buchanan. The kicker about the guy? His average historical ranking by scholars considering presidential achievements, leadership qualities, failures and faults (such as corruption), place him among the two or three worst Presidents in history.

 

[miyi]

The same people who buy the stupid "experience" argument.

lol, Hillary's foreign policy experience is not to be underestimated....and here is why.

 

[xi0]

lol, Hillary's foreign policy experience is not to be underestimated....and here is why.

That's just a boob thing to say. Anyone could call her on that BS...it makes me doubt her intelligence/judgement in saying such a thing.

---

ok, why is it so wrong to admit to the obvious fact that Obama's win in Mississippi, with an overwhelmingly large percentage of African Americans supporting Obama, that race played a factor? I don't think Obama needed to be so utterly defensive about Geraldine Ferraro's comment. It was a factor, it's the truth, and I don't think her intent was in any way "racist". This is yet another example of how political correctness in America is so pervasive and counterproductive in overcoming the issue of race. Obama's accusation of Ferraro's comment as "racist", in my opinion, is in itself "divisive" and he could have capitalised on this opportunity by simply admitting what is fact.

Here's the story I am referring to: Ferraro Controversy

I can agree with her in respect to particular states which have a large Black population, but her comments were just unfounded in respect the election as a whole. African-Americans only make up roughly 12% of the population of the US, I believe. Even less are over the age of 18, and also take into consideration that those who are adults aren't all registered to vote. So to say that Obama benefits from being Black is just preposterous to me. While I agree that political correctness is out of hand in this day and age, and Ferraro is being skewered because of such correctness, she should still be ridiculed for saying a stupid, unfounded thing.

If you take the entire amount of registered white voters, many have doubts about voting for a Black person...let's just face facts...there is definite racism in effect in today's world. So let's say that the entire population of voters who are a black and give Obama 100% of their vote, it probably wouldn't offset the white voters who wouldn't vote for a Black candidate. I say this because you have to take in the consideration that not all primaries are close to only registered party members.

But regardless, it's just a stupid thing to say.

 

[miyi]

^and I agree, I think Obama is where he is today not because of his race, but because of his other qualifications. Is race a factor? I think in some states, it is. But like you said, it probably is irrelevant given the bigger picture.

But I'm looking at Ferraro's comments (here), and she seems to be making the point that gender/sex is "secondary" in importance to Americans today than race.

It is not like she purposely brought the topic of race for no reason, she was making a comparison. Do I agree with her views, I'm not so sure. This country has been historically racist and sexist, but it's gotten better.

Is her comments dumb? probably, but I don't see it as being racist. And thanks to political correctness, her reputation is ruined because of this. We need to carefully delineate what constitutes as being "racist" and what is not. But if any mention of race in this country automatically is considered racism, then we'll all be racists.

[edit]

oops....I was reading the news again about the Ferraro controversy, and Obama did not accuse her of being "racist", but he did repudiate her claims....I mistook it this whole time as if he did call her racist. In that case, I accept Obama's response.


In other news, here's an interesting story: Obama's pastor

It appears that "race" is becoming an issue in this presidential election. I think Jeremiah Wright's comments are radical and unfounded (even worse than Ferraro's comments).

I think Mr. Wright owes a public apology (unless he can back up his statements with facts and not emotionally charged opinions).

I'm hoping Obama does not share similar views, but I'm glad he distanced himself from this pastor. Good for him.

 

[mrcongojack]

The Ferraro comments are completely ridiculous. Sure, part of the reason Obama got to where he is because he's black, but in the same way being a woman helped Clinton. What, is she where she is right now because of her experience? There were plenty of candidates with much more experience than her (Dodd and Gravel have decades on her).

As for Wright's comments, I think we can believe Obama's statement that Wright is kind of like a crazy uncle. I mean I've had plenty of people who I have considered mentors who have some out-there ideas.

 

[Gold Knight]

Since I'm a known Republican I'm not sure my opinions count for much here but is anybody as disturbed as I am by Obama having such unpatriotic people around him (first his wife, now his minister whose church he's attended for years?) And don't tell me that minister probably didn't say things like "God Damn America" already before recently. Oh, boy...

EDIT: Ah, miyi already mentioned him.

Re: miyi - for me, it's a bit late for him to be distancing himself from his pastor. It's because of politics now.

Re: mrcongojack - well, I dunno. A "crazy uncle" is one thing but Obama regards this person as somebody who influenced & inspired him. Oh well, I'm not saying that Obama may feel the same way but it's all a little weird right now. And as mentioned before, Obama has a diverse background as well. He may become the leader of the most powerful country, let's not forget this. Is he going to care about it?

 

[xi0]

Why do Republicans label Michelle Obama's comments unpatriotic? She may have spoken out of turn. I consider myself a patriotic person, yet I can admit that many times my country makes me feel less proud.

 

[Gold Knight]

She said she was never proud in her whole adult life though, but I'm not really so much concerned about her as I am the minister, and together it does have to make you feel a little weird about the whole thing. Of course, maybe Obama is like Christ and likes to hang out with the people who haven't been saved, so he can save them, heh.

 

[miyi]

you know what? I think this whole "racist" issues that are surfacing are all part of dirty politics, although it's difficult not to take note of them. I think it is better for America as a whole, and the media, to simply cover this for a little bit, and then we should all move on. I think it's safe to say that we have other more immediate problems to worry about than to re-visit the issue of race. True, it's still prevalent, but part of maturing as a society requires recognizing our faults and at the same time, overcoming it and looking past it.

As for Obama, I think he'd be a capable President, but not Hillary. I think having charisma is a great "plus" for Obama, and we need that in a leader. The only disagreement I have with him is foreign policy. I'm more Democrat-leaning when it comes to domestic policies, so I don't really mind Obama at all.

But I've decided I'll vote for Mccain, and as you all might have already guessed, I'm quite vocal about the current war, and I think he has the best credibility in regards to war experience and leadership. I'll vote for him, unless he does something utterly stupid.

 

[Gold Knight]

Yeah, I'll probably vote for McCain as well. Of course maybe McCain simply lucked up in that neither Huckabee and Romney gave him such a challenge that he had to get into the dirty politics aspect of running yet. I'll be very curious to see what happens during the campaign where McCain has to run against Obama. But simply because McCain, while I'm not sure I trust him, does claim to want to stay with the war, I'll probably vote him just for that. I wish it wasn't quite as clear-cut as that, but I guess this time it will have to be.

 

[miyi]

You have to give Mccain credit though, he was one of the strongest advocate of the troop surge, which apparently does not get any media attention although it's working.

 

[mrcongojack]

Hey, McCain's not clean when it comes to his supporters either. Let's not forget anti-Catholic John Hagee who thinks Katrina was the result of God's anger with the people of New Orleans (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Hagee#Personal_beliefs). All of the candidates have a a crazy uncle/aunt. McCain has Hagee, Obama has Wright, and Clinton has Ferraro. Of those three I would say I am the most worried about Ferraro, not because her remarks are the most scandalous but because they are the most hypocritical. The only reason she was a VP candidate was because she was a woman. She wasn't experienced, she only had three terms as a House Rep under her belt. She wasn't very charismatic. Her only attribute of note was her gender. Now, the gender/race of Hillary and Obama has played a part in their being in the "final two", but Hillary also has experience (how much of which is up to debate), and Obama has to be one of the most charismatic politicians in a generation. Obama is also the only one of the candidates to categorically refute his crazy uncle's statements, McCain has made a few passing remarks and Hillary has agreed with them to an extent.

In regards to the war: I think no matter who gets elected, we will be stuck in the war. We're trapped there, there's no question about it. I will still vote Democratic though (hopefully Obama), because I think the Dems will give the Generals more freedom to do their job and not try to micromanage the war and give out no-bid contracts. It's the generals who are the experts, they have a better idea what will need to be done. And I think a Dem will do a better job of using diplomacy (McCain seems too ornery to be a very good diplomat), which is what we need if we want to win over the "hearts of the Iraqi people". I'm not calling Obama and Hillary liars; I think they want to get us out of there, but there's just no good way of doing it without letting the country collapse. We have accomplished much there, even if the Bush administration has set rather low expectations. I just think it will take more than our military (which is by far the best in the world) to win this battle: we didn't fix Germany and Japan with guns alone, we had to rebuild their infrastructures. It'll be harder in Iraq, seeing as they really didn't have that great an infrastructure to begin with. But the focus on troops and military action that is the Bush administration's plan and which McCain has vowed to continue just doesn't sound smart to me.

 

[miyi]

In regards to the war: I think no matter who gets elected, we will be stuck in the war. We're trapped there, there's no question about it. I will still vote Democratic though (hopefully Obama), because I think the Dems will give the Generals more freedom to do their job and not try to micromanage the war and give out no-bid contracts. It's the generals who are the experts, they have a better idea what will need to be done. And I think a Dem will do a better job of using diplomacy (McCain seems too ornery to be a very good diplomat), which is what we need if we want to win over the "hearts of the Iraqi people". I'm not calling Obama and Hillary liars; I think they want to get us out of there, but there's just no good way of doing it without letting the country collapse. We have accomplished much there, even if the Bush administration has set rather low expectations. I just think it will take more than our military (which is by far the best in the world) to win this battle: we didn't fix Germany and Japan with guns alone, we had to rebuild their infrastructures. It'll be harder in Iraq, seeing as they really didn't have that great an infrastructure to begin with. But the focus on troops and military action that is the Bush administration's plan and which McCain has vowed to continue just doesn't sound smart to me.

^I like hearing that from Democrats, the acknowledgment that abandoning the Iraqi people is a bad decision is something I've been wanting to hear for a long time.

Yes, I agree, we need other approaches other than military, and we cannot allow no more senseless bloodletting to go on between the Sunni and Shia. They've had their chance to let out their anger and get their revenge, they should reconcile, have their time to heal from all of this, and move on. It'll be tough, but I am optimistic that it'll work. People are tired of violence, and as we are now seeing, both Sunni and Shia are working together to drive out al Qaida and even they are fed up with all their BS. I remember there was news about a week ago in which the Saudi King is agreeing to help out in the democratization of Iraq, and other Arab countries are following suit, so the USA are getting help. It's about time.

As far as Ferraro's comments, I still don't understand why it was racist. Perhaps she have felt for a very long time that being a woman was more disadvantageous than it is to be an African American when running in office, and that's understandable. I don't agree with her, but it's a stretch to claim she is racist because of that view.

Black separatism in my opinion is even more racist than Ferraro's views. But enough already, it's a non issue, both candidates made the effort to distance themselves and I'm fine with that.

As far as Hillary, whether or not she has sufficient experience, she cannot even pronounce the new President elect of Russia. That's just unacceptable.

 

[mrcongojack]

^I like hearing that from Democrats, the acknowledgment that abandoning the Iraqi people is a bad decision is something I've been wanting to hear for a long time.

Yes, I agree, we need other approaches other than military, and we cannot allow no more senseless bloodletting to go on between the Sunni and Shia. They've had their chance to let out their anger and get their revenge, they should reconcile, have their time to heal from all of this, and move on. It'll be tough, but I am optimistic that it'll work. People are tired of violence, and as we are now seeing, both Sunni and Shia are working together to drive out al Qaida and even they are fed up with all their BS. I remember there was news about a week ago in which the Saudi King is agreeing to help out in the democratization of Iraq, and other Arab countries are following suit, so the USA are getting help. It's about time.

As far as Ferraro's comments, I still don't understand why it was racist. Perhaps she have felt for a very long time that being a woman was more disadvantageous than it is to be an African American when running in office, and that's understandable. I don't agree with her, but it's a stretch to claim she is racist because of that view.

Black separatism in my opinion is even more racist than Ferraro's views. But enough already, it's a non issue, both candidates made the effort to distance themselves and I'm fine with that.

As far as Hillary, whether or not she has sufficient experience, she cannot even pronounce the new President elect of Russia. That's just unacceptable.

Thanks. I'm just telling it like it is, though. Whether or not it was right to go there, we are there, and we can't pull out without bringing it down with us and staying there is going to cost an arm and a leg. It's a damned if we do damned if we don't situation. We're going to have to stabilize it sooner or later, might as well do it now.

I don't think the Ferraro comment was so much racist as it was just plain old stupid. To say Barack was where he is only because he is black is down right idiotic. I can see why she didn't win in '84.

 

[Deleted_User_50953]

What Ferraro said a Obama was straight up stupid.
I'm a Democrat but I really don't dislike McCain, its his age that scares me I think he's a bit to old. I used to be big on Hillary but not anymore, I'm starting to like Obama.

 

[mrcongojack]

What Ferraro said a Obama was straight up stupid.
I'm a Democrat but I really don't dislike McCain, its his age that scares me I think he's a bit to old. I used to be big on Hillary but not anymore, I'm starting to like Obama.

Welcome to the Obama Team!

Obama's speeches were great. I like how we just took on the issue of race straight on. Obama's going to be on Larry King tonight, which I can't wait for.

 

[Gold Knight]

As I said much earlier in the thread, Obama is the most impressive candidate we have for President right now - and in a very long time, I might add. I just wish that I agreed with his views, or that he was a Republican - he delivers speeches excellently and he definitely has all the airs of a leader. Unfortunately I don't agree with his views, so I can't vote for him.

Still, McCain isn't too bad at giving speeches himself either. He's a very influential guy. As for his age, it's nothing compared to the leader of Israel these days (Peres is 84), and he's not as old as Reagan was, either. I'm not worried about that. In a way, his being a maverick and deriving somewhat from the Republican views at times is somewhat encouraging too, in that he is the sort of guy who does seem like he makes decisions for himself and he's not just some puppet.

EDIT: Hmm, I was mistaken. If McCain is elected President, he'd be the oldest elected President at 71, over Reagan who was 69. My bad. Still, it's nothing compared to Peres.

 

[manu]

Wow, y'know everyone was talking about how this presidential election will be about race and gender. I'm guessing the final two will be all about age. Senior citizens versus the youngsters. I mean Obama's already got the youth rallied up, just wait until the media makes it an issue.

 

[Gold Knight]

I never really thought about McCain's age at all the entire race. I don't know if it actually occurred to most voters but I dunno. But yes, the media will probably an issue of it, like they do everything.

 

[mrcongojack]

Why would old people vote for McCain? With the exception of lifelong Republicans, most elderly people would enjoy the universal health care proposal Obama has. McCain would just cut existing funding to federal medicare. Currently the elderly vote is going to Clinton in the Democratic party, but come November Obama will have wooed them.