Society Universal Healthcare

[thsv]

In previous threads I've read posts being critical towards European social policy in general, health care in particular. I was also amused at comments in the Obama wins thread deploring the idea of a European health care system being implemented in the US.

What gets me is why the opposition to it? In the UK it's not entirely free in the true sense of the word. Everyone is required to make a national insurance contribution, separate from our taxes to pay for it (it also covers our state pension and any unemployment benefits we might require). It means that you can walk into any hospital in the UK and get treated. All you need to do is provide your address and the name of the doctor you're registered with. If you're not happy with the quality of care and can afford it you can get additional private coverage.

So come on people educate me. Why the (sometimes hostile) opposition to such a system?

 

[Tenryuken]

It is called being a Republican.
They don't care about other people than themself.

 

[thsv]

It is called being a Republican.
They don't care about other people than themself.

And that's called a generalisation.

Considering Democrats have also been in power and not instituted some kind of Universal Healthcare system as outlined above I think you'll find thats not the whole story.

 

[Koen]

I think it has to do with liberal capitalism in america. American politics doesn't like state intervention at all. They will only use it as an ultimate remedy. Social security is mostly state made and it isn't cheap.

Now I want to say our social security isn't universal too (some exceptions). It's professional divided into three systems which differ a lot. But I think if there'll be need for one in america, given the amount of habitants: it has to be universal

 

[Tenryuken]

Even if it's due to capitalisme, I think that the well being of millions(that doesn't have healthcare) of citizen is actually really good for their economy.

 

[mrcongojack]

There are plenty of arguments against universal healthcare.

1. It would cost too much.
2. The bureaucracy would cause incredibly long wait times and scheduling backups.
3. It's a step away from communism.

Those are some of the arguments against it. Personally I think all health care is a scam. I don't see why I just can't pay the doctor for what I need and save the rest.

 

[Tenryuken]

There are plenty of arguments against universal healthcare.

1. It would cost too much.

what do you mean by that?

2. The bureaucracy would cause incredibly long wait times and scheduling backups.

Vote for good politicians.

3. It's a step away from communism.

America has the best Military Security, rite?
Then why having a Medical Security from the same level would be communism?
Or is America since long a communist country?

I don't see why I just can't pay the doctor for what I need and save the rest.

The day you'll have bill a lil' to high to pay, you'll understand.

 

[Koen]

There are plenty of arguments against universal healthcare.

1. It would cost too much.

With all due respect. It costs yeah but then again you have some social security in reward when you'll be in need of it. Take that and restrict some excessive health costs, etc and life will maybe less expensive, easier and carefree

2. The bureaucracy would cause incredibly long wait times and scheduling backups.

That's a matter of policy, organisation and politics. You can be right then again there are lots of examples proving the opposite too

3. It's a step away from communism.

Those are some of the arguments against it. Personally I think all health care is a scam. I don't see why I just can't pay the doctor for what I need and save the rest.

Universal healthcare or social security isn't communism. It's even more steps closer to capitalism/liberalism than communism. Don't confuse economics with this matter. There are many european countries having a social security, yet having economics that's totally different to what you call communism

 

[thsv]

3. It's a step away from communism.

Yes because Canada, France, Britain, and Germany are all hotbeds of communism.

I'll give you the second point because that tends to be a problem here since the mid 90's when the government became obbsessed with all medical authorities meeting targets instead of letting them concentrate on just taking care of patients.

As to cost, note I said that I make a contribution to it each week. Its down to the government to make it work. That was the deal.

 

[Onomatopoeia]

Communism the most used word in politics, right behind liar.

 

[mrcongojack]

Universal healthcare is an economic matter because it involves money. And to insure 300 million Americans it would cost. A lot. Also it is in fact a step towards communism infinitely more than towards capitalism. Capitalism is by definition about free markets and open trade. Government run programs are bulky and expensive especially when dealing with American politics. We've got 50 states with 300 million people in them. That's a much different cat that anything in Europe. Universal Healthcare is a social program. While I was just being a tad sarcastic by calling it "communism" it is indeed a socialist idea.

Perhaps you all need a refresher in what communism is. It is a system of government where the government runs and regulates all economic activity. Healthcare is an industry (one that does incredibly well.) Government-sponsored health care would be the socialization of basically an entire industry.

 

[Tenryuken]

to insure 300 million Americans it would cost.

It's just the same as taxes.
Don't you pay taxes?

Healthcare is an industry (one that does incredibly well.)

That's the main problem of the US, it's an INDUSTRY.
It makes me sick.

 

[mrcongojack]

It's just the same as taxes.
Don't you pay taxes?




That's the main problem of the US, it's an INDUSTRY.
It makes me sick.

Yeah I pay taxes. Too much in fact. With private health care I at least have a choice on who steals my money.

 

[thsv]

Yeah I pay taxes. Too much in fact. With private health care I at least have a choice on who steals my money.

So mrcongojack, is it a case that you'd like to not pay taxes at all or just that they take too much off you. Because if you lived in a communist country you wouldn't pay taxes at all.

And throwing healthcare to the free market seems wrong. If you're suffering from a gunshot wound its not like you've got time to shop around for the best deal.

 

[Forever_Melody]

Well the root does lie in Capitalism IMO. We have Universal Health Care in Canada and my American friends' main argument lies in personal wealth and the individual really. Capitalism is an economic system which favors the individual and individual gain/success over collective.

Basically, my friends did not want to:
- wait absurdly long times in hospitals(a big problem here as well)
- pay for health care which they did not themselves profit from

So yeah, it comes back to the root of Capitalism: the individual. Why would you pay for someone else's health(even more so if you don't know said person)? Why would YOU have to sacrificed YOUR hard earned income to pay for a benefit you might not fully take advantage of. If for example you get really sick only once every 10 year versus that other guy who gets sick every 10 days, the other guy is obviously taking more advantage of the taxes he's spending than you.

The purpose of Universal Health Care is to say that Health is not an industry and every individual, regardless of income or status, should be allowed a minimum level of Health Care.

Many people do not think this is worthwhile though. Many people believe that stinky homeless guy doesn't deserve to be one of the factors which make you wait over 20h at the clinic and even less that you should be paying for that guy's Health Care.

There also comes the idea of Health Insurance.

Health Insurance in the US from what I've heard is very selective and it gets harder and harder to obtain if you've already been at risk once form some type of health problem so really, it doesn't benefit that many it seems.

Anyways, bottom line is that there are many factors playing into people's dislike of Universal Health Care. It's definitely not perfect, and nothing really is, but I find it a good system and so do most Canadians. In fact, the idea of a "private" hospital where those who'd pay more would pass before those with Health Care was rejected because of the principle idea of Universal Health Care. That makes us Socialist in a sense, but hey, nobody said it was THAT bad a thing >_>

Here, Health & Basic Education are considered those basic needs which are governed by the state since the belief is that most individuals should have access to these things even if they make little money.

Btw the system where the Government rules everything is Socialism no?

 

[Monte]

Perhaps you all need a refresher in what communism is. It is a system of government where the government runs and regulates all economic activity.

Except there isn't any kind of state or government in communism. More like, isn't needed.

Btw the system where the Government rules everything is Socialism no?

That is half true because there isnt any specific doctrine or anything for socialism, there are lots of opposing ideas inside. Also defining it as "Government rules everything" would be too superficial. There is distribution of power and stuff like that but lets not go much into that...

Concerning Healthcare problem(yes to me, it is a problem) it all lies in hypocrisy of humans, most of the humans, when gathered a little money, consciously or unconsciously think of themselves as higher than others, as they should be treated better because they have more money. In theory, from their point of view, nothing is wrong with equality in fact they ennoble this value but when you point out the fact that 'road to equality goes through your sacrifice' then they raise an contradictory opposition. So its no suprise that this opposition is not based on any kind of reasonable suggestion, such thing can only posit itself.
Like Roger Waters said :

Money, its a crime.
Share it fairly but dont take a slice of my pie.
Money, so they say
Is the root of all evil today.
But if you ask for a raise its no surprise that they are
Giving none away.

When the situation like this in society. What would a government want more? Who is already looking for an excuse to explain inequality in ALL institutions, of course chooses to exploit this hypocrisy.

 

[seonorwich]

Cosmetic surgery....

Hello..

Cosmetic surgery means to have a surgical procedure for the purpose of improving your appearance. It is known as elective surgery, meaning that the patient chooses to have it although it is not essential.
Cosmetic surgery is different from plastic surgery, which is surgery to reconstruct or improve the appearance after injury or illness.

 

[Kaiten]

American Health Care System

Now hopefully his health care plan will pass congress without being butchered.

 

[redcometfm]

Re: President Obama Wins! Now What?

If that bill passes, kiss American prosperity goodbye.

 

[Akiyama]

Re: President Obama Wins! Now What?

I would like to see President Obama push for some alternative power resources and global warming issues after he takes care of the health care overhaul.