Discussion Unpopular Opinions

[hokageji]

I agree in that a battle of attrition was a big part in how doflamingo was defeated. It's what ultimately allowed luffy to win by a hair against the guy. But for this to play out as you mention we'd have to make the assumption that doflamingo without having taken that much damage would have been able to nearly flawlessly handle gear 4. Which.... I don't buy. Certainly luffy wouldn't have won against a 100% doflamingo but at least to me it looks like gear 4 would still have dealt substantial damage to doflamingo. Cracker in turn was able to hold back luffy even while nami softened his cookie soldiers for a whole night. Without that, luffy simply doesn't have the means to get past the cracker army and actually land a hit even with gear 4.

As for bird cage, it doesn't' seem like the technique was that big a drain on him. The bird cage seemed largely independent. Otherwise we'd have to assume that doflamingo alone is stronger than all the people that were trying to stop the bird cage, which would be absurd.

Doflamingo didn't have much of a fight with jozu. He simply showed up from behind and restrained him with his strings. Which doesn't really evidence doflamingo actually being on the same level as jozu given how arbitrarily strong the strings can be.

Well stamina is a thing in One Piece, we've seen with Luffy and we've seen it with law. DoFlamingo had to remain conscious to keep bird cage active which means it is exerting some stress... I would assume that Bird Cage takes a lot considering the lenght it was on and how difficult it was when restricted by it.
But other than that, i cannot post a stronger point that validates my point and debates yours, so i will say you are probably right on that one.

Regarding Cracker, his physical body is extremely weak and he's trained to fight it off without showing his real body. Luffy's ability is still way more restrictive than Doflamingo, who's shown to have extreme control over his DF and great variations. Infinite crackers vs infinite strings, if Mingo can break through his defense, it'll be easy to take him down which is why i maintain DoFlamingo > Cracker.
What can cracker do that poses a threat to Mingo?

 

[kkck]

Well stamina is a thing in One Piece, we've seen with Luffy and we've seen it with law. DoFlamingo had to remain conscious to keep bird cage active which means it is exerting some stress... I would assume that Bird Cage takes a lot considering the lenght it was on and how difficult it was when restricted by it.
But other than that, i cannot post a stronger point that validates my point and debates yours, so i will say you are probably right on that one.

Regarding Cracker, his physical body is extremely weak and he's trained to fight it off without showing his real body. Luffy's ability is still way more restrictive than Doflamingo, who's shown to have extreme control over his DF and great variations. Infinite crackers vs infinite strings, if Mingo can break through his defense, it'll be easy to take him down which is why i maintain DoFlamingo > Cracker.
What can cracker do that poses a threat to Mingo?

Most fruit abilities require the user to be conscious but that doesn't mean they stress said user. Take vanderdecken. His ability was arbitrary and used it to throw noah at shirahoshi... and it certainly did not strain him, the guy was not even powerful.

Cracker is frail but he isn't exactly helpless in close range. There are a few instances of cracker basically jumping at gear four luffy and no evidence afterward that he took a hit. So while cracker isn't durable, he is definitely insanely fast and an overall competent enough fighter to not take a hit at close range from gear 4 even while not under the protection of his cracker army. Meanwhile odds are that even a full powered doflamingo would get mostly rag dolled by gear 4.

As for what cracker could do to doflamingo... Well, he'd just fight normally. Throw a cracker army at doflamingo or slash him himself. Cracker is powerful enough to handle doflamingo at close range as I said earlier. Realistically speaking the only thing in doflamingo's arsenal that would pose a real threat to cracker is awakening though only in case it works to turn cracker's soldiers into threads. Though in that case I would still argue cracker is the overall stronger fighter, except that doflamingo has a hard counter to cracker's power. And even then in close range doflamingo is in substantial danger.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2020 ---

Ok, here is another unpopular opinion: The sunny needs to be utterly destroyed and franky needs to build another dream ship or whatever. The sunny is a nice boat and all but it doesn't look too impressive compared to most ships we have seen from yonko so far. It's not even the most impressive looking boat in the strawhat armada. The strawhats need a proper flagship that at least looks the part.

 

[woefdram]

That's questionable to say the least.

Let me explain:

I do not believe that power in the OP world is linear like for example in DBZ. Where Goku's foe was stronger each time, Luffy's enemies were different in each arc.

In my (unpopular?) opinion there are four big factors that define each characters power: Physical strength,type of DF, Haki and Weapons.

Mastering all these factors is not a necessity to measure power for any given character which is why there is so much variety in the OP world. So for example Garp combines monstrous physical strength with haki and Mihawk is the strongest swordsman without either of them relying on a DF.
That being said these factors can potentially build upon each other (WB, Issho and Kaido for example, who combine all four)

However, with power not being linear I believe that difference in power between characters is not massive and quite often an advantage in DF or being a more proficient haki user can give a character an advantage in battle. Luffy vs Enel is a great example of this.

The reason that I believe that the difference isn't massive has to do with the simple fact that the balance of power in the OP world was established quite early as being between marines, yonkou and Shichibukai. This means to me that the Shichibukai are to an extent able to compete with the yonkou and while the yonkou are more powerful the difference in strength is not big enough to seek open confrontation (with the exception of maybe Moria and Kaidou, but that was before the current storyline and Moria has later (for unknown reasons) been deemed unworthy to be part of the Shichibukai)

So coming back to why I think Crocodile could take on Kaidou: While I definitely think that Kaidou is superior in terms of strength, I think Crocodile has one of the strongest DFs in the whole story. I also think that him losing to Luffy does not equal him inferior to Luffy. If they would have a rematch Crocodile would still have a bigger advantage with regards to his DF and Luffy might lose (again, because he did lose twice).

In a fight between Crocodile and Kaidou all these factors come into play. When Crocodile gets haki-punched in the face he'll probably get knocked out quite easily, but the same time there is no evidence that Kaidou would be immune to Crocodile dehydration technique (if anything, his frequent boozing might make it go quicker).

So yes, I definitely believe Crocodile could beat Kaidou. The same as I believe Enel to be one of the most powerful characters in the whole story who could possible win in a fight against Kaidou as well.

I am not trying to downplay anything here, but one of the reasons I love this manga is because to me power in the OP world is relative. Oda did very well in introducing many of the most powerful characters very early on in the manga, which kind of set a limit to how powerful characters could become.

 

[Fox666]

But.... the anime is irrelevant. In the manga we see cracker handling gear 4 luffy with ease. Nami is the only reason luffy wasn't overwhelmed by the cracker army.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2020 ---

Ok, and to add more context:

Gear 2/3 luffy was able to hold his ground for a bit against doflamingo. Doflamingo clearly had the edge as the battle drew out at this stage but at least luffy was capable of holding his ground for a bit.

Gear 2/3 luffy never approached cracker while he was wearing his cracker suit.

Gear 4 luffy consistently overwhelmed doflamingo. If anything, gear 4 was plenty to beat doflamingo. The main issue on that end was gear 4 not lasting enough to finish the job.

Gear 4 luffy in turn was able to break past cracker's first cracker suit. But... that was barely the tip of the iceberg. At that point cracker's true form, which took no damage appeared and cut luffy's arm. And from that point onward gear 4 was helpless until nami intervened and used her moisture to allow luffy to eat the cracker army.

It'd fairly clear that cracker is the bigger threat compared to doflamingo.

Regarding Cracker cutting Luffy with a blade, Luffy in Gear 4 dodged all of Doflamingo strings, so I presume they could injury him.

In terms of durability, Doflamingo could withstand a few blows from Gear 4, while Cracker soldiers were destroyed in a single hit. It seems Doflamingo's Haki is stronger. But Cracker makes up for it with his shield.

In both cases, Luffy didn't have enough time. He couldn't end the battle in Gear 4. But I'm not sure if Luffy could even get through the army of Biscuit Soldiers in Tank Man if he didn't eat so much.

 

[hokageji]

Realistically speaking the only thing in doflamingo's arsenal that would pose a real threat to cracker is awakening though only in case it works to turn cracker's soldiers into threads.

That would be interesting, although i dont think awakening would allow you to convert other DF abilities into yours, but i see what you mean.

Well, i guess this discussion will get nowhere, because the possiblities can be endless with some many unknowns... But you've convinced me that Cracker wouldn't be an easy win for sure... so i'll end it with that....

 

[kkck]

Regarding Cracker cutting Luffy with a blade, Luffy in Gear 4 dodged all of Doflamingo strings, so I presume they could injury him.

In terms of durability, Doflamingo could withstand a few blows from Gear 4, while Cracker soldiers were destroyed in a single hit. It seems Doflamingo's Haki is stronger. But Cracker makes up for it with his shield.

In both cases, Luffy didn't have enough time. He couldn't end the battle in Gear 4. But I'm not sure if Luffy could even get through the army of Biscuit Soldiers in Tank Man if he didn't eat so much.

Yeah, odds are the strings would cause luffy damage. Though I don't think I've said anything that suggests otherwise. I've made the point that doflamingo got ragdolled by luffy but that is mostly because luffy was simply fast and strong enough for that.

The soldiers are still quite durable and expendable. Seeing the fight it does look like there is a substantial difference between a soldier cracker is wearing and one that is simply around on what I presume is some form of auto pilot. Luffy did make the point that cracker's haki was quite strong so I wouldn't necessarily bet on doflamingo's being stronger on that regard.

In the fight against doflamingo luffy certainly lacked the stamina to finish the fight on his own. Interestingly it does seem like stamina was less of an issue against cracker considering that luffy did use gear 4 against him but never evidenced being immobile for 10 minutes. And later this was not as much an issue against katakuri. Luffy did need to recover at some point but he still wasn't as helpless as he had been earlier.

Based on what we saw during the cracker fight, the presumably haki less biscuit army was just about good enough to prevent gear 4 luffy from getting to cracker. The soldiers cracked but it was a non issue as cracker could simply instantly crack more into existence at virtually no risk to himself.

 

[Fox666]

If it was Cracker vs Doflamingo, I think Doflamingo has a massive advantage.

While the Biscuit Soldier protect Cracker from large attacks, I think the armor is full of gaps, and Doflamingo strings could get through them.

And since Doflamingo could withstand a few blows from Gear 4, I believe he would be able to destroy the Biscuit Soldiers, except for the shield. But while the shield may do a good job in defending a torpedo-shaped fist, the strings should be able to go around it.

That if Doflamingo doesn't turn the whole ground into strings, making it near impossible to avoid them.

Then you have the problem that Cracker can't withstand pain, and these strings look really painful.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 16, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 16, 2020 ---

Luffy did make the point that cracker's haki was quite strong so I wouldn't necessarily bet on doflamingo's being stronger on that regard.

I think he just meant that Cracker was too much for him without Gear 4.

The soldiers are still quite durable and expendable. Seeing the fight it does look like there is a substantial difference between a soldier cracker is wearing and one that is simply around on what I presume is some form of auto pilot. Luffy did make the point that cracker's haki was quite strong so I wouldn't necessarily bet on doflamingo's being stronger on that regard.

Hmm, unless given a reason, I don't see why assume these things are different are different from the original.

And I think the fight went exactly as expected with more of the original...

 

[Luke Beifong]

A unpopular opinion that I have discussed today with a friend:

Jewelry Bonnie can be sister of Ace.

Bonnie is inspired in Anne Bonnie, a pirate woman that avoid beginning executed by telling the marines she’s pregnant. Like Rouge did to avoid beginning executed holding her pregnancy. And Rouge said that if she had a daughter, she want to name the baby “Anne”.

Another thing is when Ace and WB died she’s appears crying and going after BB to take revenge. As we know Bonnie don’t have any connections with WB or Ace, but it’s more likely she have problems with BB because of Ace than because for WB.

The connection she have with Kuma? Well... Roger or Rouge knows Dragon and trusts her daughter to him and he leaves her in the kingdom were Kuma’s the King.

And how the two of them not born together? Well, if Rouge can hold her pregnancy for 20 mouths, can’t she had two baby’s in different times?

And her name is a hint, Jewelry (jewels) is daughter of Gold (Gol D.)

I have a lot of theorys about Bonnie, but this one makes me thinking a lot...

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 17, 2020 ---

Offtopic: Guys, sorry for my English... I don’t know if it’s good or not and I don’t feel like I did a great job explaining the question...

 

[M3J]

Impossible unless Bonney is the older sister as once Ace was born, Rouge died. We don't even know if Bonnie has any connection with Whitebeard or Ace.

 

[woefdram]

Impossible unless Bonney is the older sister as once Ace was born, Rouge died. We don't even know if Bonnie has any connection with Whitebeard or Ace.

Not impossible, just unpopular ;-)

Maybe she's a sneaky ghost twin!

But yeah, it's a bit unlikely. When I was re-reading the Marineford arc (thanks again) that panel did stand out as odd, but I thought it had more to do with the apparent link between her and Akainu

 

[hokageji]

it is highly unlikely, but both are from south blue....

i think her connection to Kuma debunks the theory though.

 

[McNuss]

Ah right I forgot one:

Official digital versions of One Piece suck!
The fact that they split up doublepages makes it unreadable.

Comics are art. Dedicated Comic publishers should care better about the art form they are selling. I honestly would be better off scanning in my Volumes myself.

I'll never support this low-budget crap.

 

[catagon87]

Cracker vs Luffy was fair because it was a battle among pirates.
Lots of people find ways to bring up Luffy vs Cracker weekly. Mostly in the context that they’re disappointed Luffy needed Nami’s help. I agree with Luffy, when Katakuri impaled him, in that a pirate battle has no rules. Using trickery, and unfair tactics is part of being a pirate. Cracker has a pretty severe weakness (rain) to a level beyond even Crocodile does. Because crocodile can remove the rain.

Whole Cake Island was a good arc.
WCI dragged on, but overall it was a necessary prep arc for Kaido. It set the stage for Luffy to eventually reach Yonko level. Luffy’s demeanor changed after this arc.

Sky Island was boring.
This arc was a yawn fest for me, and the only implication it had on the story is they left with enough treasure to buy the wood that built the Sunny.

Luffy and Law vs Doflamingo was actually a 2v2, not a 2v1. Doffy just chose an idiot to be his battle companion. Nullifying any nonsense about it being unfair against Doflamingo.

 

[woefdram]

Sky Island was boring.
This arc was a yawn fest for me, and the only implication it had on the story is they left with enough treasure to buy the wood that built the Sunny.

YES!

Wano is the first good arc since the time skip.

- FI had a rubbish villain
- PH was bland as a setting and most villains were dull (Monet + Vergo). CC was underwhelming considering his DF
- Dressrosa dragged on for far too long
- WCI was all over the place, had that awful cake subplot and underused almost every interesting character in favour of mirror lady

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 17, 2020 ---

Luffy’s demeanor changed after this arc.

Please explain... I'm curious to find out what you mean

 

[M3J]

Not impossible, just unpopular ;-)

Maybe she's a sneaky ghost twin!

But yeah, it's a bit unlikely. When I was re-reading the Marineford arc (thanks again) that panel did stand out as odd, but I thought it had more to do with the apparent link between her and Akainu

But how could she have been born after Ace, and not be mentioned? Unless Rouge was actually having twins, it's impossible for Bonney to be Rouge's younger child. And how would she have known about Ace?




Luffy can be smart when he wants to be, and his fight against Cracker proves it. Luffy ultimately won because he came up with a way to take down Cracker.

 

[Shojin]

Someone here has an amazing thread about that, Robin as Rokushiki and haki user....

I'm glad that there are still some people here that remember that thread.

 

[catagon87]

YES!

Wano is the first good arc since the time skip.

- FI had a rubbish villain
- PH was bland as a setting and most villains were dull (Monet + Vergo). CC was underwhelming considering his DF
- Dressrosa dragged on for far too long
- WCI was all over the place, had that awful cake subplot and underused almost every interesting character in favour of mirror lady

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 17, 2020, Original Post Date: Jan 17, 2020 ---

Please explain... I'm curious to find out what you mean

Mostly I just mean he seemed more confident in general in the beginning of Wano. Not fully serious, but slightly more serious than he was in other arcs.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I am kinda annoyed with the motion going to make luffy as some kind of prophet to bring peace on the world (will reincarnation of joy boy or something like that)
I feel like its too cliche and too many shounen series have done this for the protagonist

 

[Fox666]

I am kinda annoyed with the motion going to make luffy as some kind of prophet to bring peace on the world (will reincarnation of joy boy or something like that)
I feel like its too cliche and too many shounen series have done this for the protagonist

Agree

Naruto already pulled the "child of prophecy" crap out of nowhere

 

[HereNThere]

Eh, I'm a bit lenient in this case because the seeds were planted somewhat early on when the crew met Rayleigh.

Naruto's straight up was dropped on us. Nevermind that it also went against the theme of the series in a blatant way.