Discussion Unpopular Opinions

[MattC302]

I think Magi is highly overrated. The first 50 chapters are plain boring, the combat systems are uninspired, the art is barely a step above Cage of Eden level derpyness, and even the good arcs have arc ruining characters like Kassim, Hakuryuu and Titus.

Tite Kubo is not a good artist. His style is generic, plain and boring. Most of his character designs are uncreative, and his paneling is full of obnoxious, wasteful closeups. Not to mention lack of backgrounds. And it is a complete waste to give this guy color pages most of the time. If the only colors he is going to use is the black and white of shinigami robes, skin color, and Renji's hair color, then the editors are better off giving the color page to someone else. I once saw someone say that Tite Kubo is the best weekly manga artist, but if we are going to go with a comparable, semi-realistic bishi style, I'd say Oh! Great completely outclasses Kubo.

I don't get what the big deal is about Osuma Tezuka. Yeah, I know he contributed a lot to shaping the industry as we know it, but I'm talking about his quality of work and how he is practically grandfathered in as automatically good by a lot of critics. I admit, I've only read a small fraction of his work, but I think I got a good sense of what he's all about with the range of titles I've tried(Ode to Kirihito, Princess Knight, Book of Human Insects, Buddha, Apollo's Song). Forgetting that I don't like his art, which I admit is a matter of opinion, his writing is kind of clumsy. The worst work I have read is 'Buddha', which I've heard regarded as a masterpiece. I strongly disagree. It is an extremely tedious read packed with misplaced, unfunny humor. Ode to Kirihito is okay but generic, Book of Human Insects started out good, but plummeted fast in the second half, Apollo's Song was interesting, but felt like an episode of the Twilight Zone. Princess Knight is easily the best work I have read of his because it was fun and entertaining, but it is nothing special compared to what's out there. Osamu Tezuka may have done a lot of things first, but a lot of other people followed him up an did it better.

I hate the Ohba/Obata duo and I sincerely hope that they don't team up again. Obata's best art was on Hikaru no Go and both Death Note and Bakuman suck. I'd love for Obata to team up with a really great writer and maybe move away from Shonen or at least away from Weekly Shonen Jump. Ohba can't finish a story and/or doesn't know when to stop. Everyone knows that Death Note fell off after L died and Bakuman's only redeeming quality was the manga industry info gimmick, which wore off quickly.

Vinland Saga is also highly overrated. It would be so much better if it was more grounded in realism. Thorkell and his inhuman strength really took me out of the story. Also, Canute is a terrible character. I've seen people laud his profound character development, and it's been a while since I read, but the way I remember it, one second he was a sniveling little boy afraid of his own shadow, and out of nowhere he did a complete 180 that was extremely unbelievable. It was poorly handled. His change should have been gradual.

I liked the Sasuke vs. Danzou fight, including the infamous Sharingarm, and I think that was the last good fight in 'Naruto'.

 

[M3J]

A highly overrated manga. At some point it got ridiculous how L and Light were one upping each other. "You may think you know what I am thinking but I am only letting you think you know when I really am thinking about doing something you never thought I would."

Not to mention, the end was "I know what you were gonna do!" "I know that you knew what I was gonna do!" "Well, I knew that you knew that I knew what you were gonna do!" so on and on and finally, "Well, fuck you, you got me!"

 

[Kaiten]

I tVinland Saga is also highly overrated. It would be so much better if it was more grounded in realism. Thorkell and his inhuman strength really took me out of the story. Also, Canute is a terrible character. I've seen people laud his profound character development, and it's been a while since I read, but the way I remember it, one second he was a sniveling little boy afraid of his own shadow, and out of nowhere he did a complete 180 that was extremely unbelievable. It was poorly handled. His change should have been gradual.

That sounds more like a matter of taste, rather than the manga being overrated. Vinland Saga could not be anymore realistic and still properly communicate what the author intended. Old Norse Saga are not meant to be realistic. They are tales of overwhelming strength, courage, power, and violence meant to reinforce Viking culture. Vinland Saga turns those themes inside out, using the exaggerated bravado of old Norse Saga to demonstrate how a culture of "violence" (not just blood shed) creates a viscous cycle of hate, misery, and fear. Realism would undermine the message. The story is not meant to be true to life, or historically accurate.

---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

If I recall correctly, Canute's transformation was not sudden. His personality gradually changed while a hostage of Askeladd. Because of the timeskip it is is difficult to say what shaped his personality since Askeladd died.

 

[thatguy3331]

I think Magi is highly overrated. The first 50 chapters are plain boring, the combat systems are uninspired, the art is barely a step above Cage of Eden level derpyness, and even the good arcs have arc ruining characters like Kassim, Hakuryuu and Titus.

As a fan of Magi I....can honestly see this.

While I like magi a lot and even parade sometimes how "it's everything I wanted out of fairy tail and more"(in case anyone's wondering, yes I hate FT) every time I keep thinking if I consider it a favorite or not, I always seem to stop myself because there something that's either 'missing' or not quite right.

While I simply disagree on the first 50 chapters, I will say the combat system has more than likely been done before, but I've probably never seen it. I can also vouch for not being the biggest fan of certain panels and how sometimes the detail in character designs just...isn't there. In a recent chapter there was a full panel shot of Aladdin and his feet just looked like an bulged outline with some lines in it. As for the ruining characters, I completely agree with Kassiam, Hakuryuu...honestly had a aspect to him that I (very sadly) related to back when I was a kid, and I'm seeing signs of him pissing me off in the future so when that happens that will be especially painful. As far as Titus I don't feel he's as bad as kassiam was (in fact he may be the lesser evil considering

Spoiler

he's gonna die soon

the only stupid thing I can recall him doing was his whole

Spoiler

betrayal of reim, but again considering he was going to die

it's a bit more understandable.

Lastly a personal aspect that ticks me off with magi is this: WHAT THE HELL HAPPENED TO THE ADVENTURE?! Look, I don't mind the fact that they have to face al therman now as a enemy or anything, but now we're just stuck in this sort of "its your mission to head here and do x and y, and then head over to Z to do Q and W" that does not feel like an adventure to me, and with its setting I was really hoping there would be more of that, which was part of the reason I liked the beginning chapters. If I can make short in to why I myself like Magi its probably because for the first time in a while it felt like it was doing shonen right, not spectacularly or masterfully, but after fairy tail this was just what the doctor ordered for me.

 

[Asarii]

1.) Well, you can´t really project the well done filler in Reborn (i have no idea about Reborn) on other animes. Filler, in most cases, have a ridiculous storyline, show the protagonists acting out of character and sometimes even contradict with the canon stuff.

I know not every filler is decent in quality, but I just wanted to point out that not all are like that. Other examples of a good filler is the G-8 arc in ONE PIECE, and some filler scenes/changes in the SKET DANCE anime were actually done better than the manga.

2.) Interesting, why do you think so?

I felt it was trying too hard to be philosophical and deep. There's nothing wrong with the premise -do the lives of criminals have sanctity just as any other individual?- over all, but I felt as if its execution fell flat somewhere down the line. There should be pros and cons attributed to both sides, but it seemed as if the scale tipped heavily to the pro-L side. (It doesn't help that it became harder and harder to be sympathetic to Light as the series progressed.)

To me, it depends on the filler. I don't mind some changes from the source material. I actually was going to post about that here. The only line I draw is wholesale changes, like with the first Fullmetal Alchemist anime. I don't watch anime anymore that require entire filler arc, and no longer have a strong opinion about that. In retrospect the Bounto arc, the first Bleach anime filler, was better than a lot of what has come since in the manga. It certainly was better than Fullbring, and the Quincy War. Arguably it was better than anything since Ichigo defeated Grimmjow.

Yes, it's all relative; there are well-written fillers just as how there are badly written ones. I'm fine with fillers as long as it doesn't defy the foundation set out by the original.

A highly overrated manga. At some point it got ridiculous how L and Light were one upping each other. "You may think you know what I am thinking but I am only letting you think you know when I really am thinking about doing something you never thought I would."

I agree. Their exchange was cool the first time around, but then it got tiring.

 

[thatguy3331]

I think I'm one of the few hunter x hunter fans who doesn't feel as though they need to find a 'darker and edgier' theme song to replace departure. Guys I get it the chimera ant arc is dark and stuff, but really I laughed at most song selections than feel 'pumped' for the arc (seriously how the hell do you get 'pumped' for gore?)

 

[jakensama]

Guess since people are going all out, I should as well. Plz don't shun me after u read these.

1. I find 80s and 90s animation in anime far superior to modern. Reason is that computers were used less, and mostly everything was completely hand drawn. Everything seems more organic in earlier animation as a result.

2. Bleach died after the Soul Society Arc...and I'll agree with Tite Kubo being highly overrated.

3. Training arcs suck!

4. I enjoyed Madoka, but I find it was overhyped and is overrated. Seems many find it the best thing since sliced bread. It certainly was groundbreaking and different in some aspects, but I don't consider it a masterpiece.

5. I like heroes to be more masculine looking. Example: Guts from Berserk. There are far to many heroes in action manga/anime that are very slender and absent of muscle mass. Bishonen would be the extreme example of these, IRL they would be easily overpowered with that body frame.

6. Seinen is far superior to shounen.

7. I thought Kagome from Inuyasha was an abusive tyrant.

8. I don't like J-pop much

 

[MattC302]

That sounds more like a matter of taste, rather than the manga being overrated. Vinland Saga could not be anymore realistic and still properly communicate what the author intended. Old Norse Saga are not meant to be realistic. They are tales of overwhelming strength, courage, power, and violence meant to reinforce Viking culture. Vinland Saga turns those themes inside out, using the exaggerated bravado of old Norse Saga to demonstrate how a culture of "violence" (not just blood shed) creates a viscous cycle of hate, misery, and fear. Realism would undermine the message. The story is not meant to be true to life, or historically accurate.

---------- Post added at 03:32 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:27 PM ----------

If I recall correctly, Canute's transformation was not sudden. His personality gradually changed while a hostage of Askeladd. Because of the timeskip it is is difficult to say what shaped his personality since Askeladd died.

Yeah, I'd prefer realism in this case. I just recall Thorkell's displays of super strength sticking out compared to the rest of the series. He lifted a giant boulder over his head, threw a spear what seemed like a mile, and kicked Thorfin high into the sky. Even if the rest of the series' violence is still exaggerated, his feats still look ridiculous and took me out of the story. And I'm not sure I agree about the message being undermined. I find realistic violence to be much more impactful, such as that in 'Eden:It's An Endless World!'.

As for Canute; it's been a while, so you may be right. Somehow I just remember him being a wimp, then his father figure dies, and all of a sudden he talks to that monk and turns into a tough guy. Guess I need to reread. Maybe my library will get Kodansha USA's hardcover release this fall.

---------- Post added at 10:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:24 PM ----------

As a fan of Magi I....can honestly see this.

Don't get me wrong. I've enjoyed Magi and still do. I just don't see it as most others I have encountered do.

And about the "arc ruining characters"; I can't even say that they are objectively poorly written. I just don't like them. They annoy me. Especially Titus. This current arc is one of my favorites, but Titus' part in it just seems so unnecessary and I think it would be better without that bit of melodrama.

 

[M3J]

Togashi is extremely overrated and doesn't deserve being defended for being too lazy to work on his manga and not giving a shit at all. HxH is probably like Toriko, not as good as people make it out to be. Pretty annoyed with how people defend Togashi when you actually have better and more hardworking mangaka like Oda and Kishi working on their manga, even if Kishi seems to not give a shit at all.

 

[Jammin]

Hooboy. I got a big one.(pretty sure I'm the only one that thinks this...in the world)

I don't think Shingeki no Kyojin is good, at all.

When I read through it I came away with the impression it was just basically a mecha series with poor characters hiding behind "fleshy titan reskin". Other than the artwork I didn't find it enjoyable or impressive in almost any way. It's just Jack the Giant killer, the Incredible Hulk, and Gundam haphazardly smashed together.

 

[Asarii]

Hooboy. I got a big one.(pretty sure I'm the only one that thinks this...in the world)

I don't think Shingeki no Kyojin is good, at all.

When I read through it I came away with the impression it was just basically a mecha series with poor characters hiding behind "fleshy titan reskin". Other than the artwork I didn't find it enjoyable or impressive in almost any way. It's just Jack the Giant killer, the Incredible Hulk, and Gundam haphazardly smashed together.

No, you're not the only one. While I do enjoy reading Shingeki, I don't see what everyone else who loves it sees. Usually I would understood why a popular series is popular like in the case of One Piece, Full Metal Alchemist or Monster, but I don't get why Shingeki is getting a huge hype right now. Is it because of the anime? If so, then perhaps the anime tells the story better than the manga.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Hooboy. I got a big one.(pretty sure I'm the only one that thinks this...in the world)

I don't think Shingeki no Kyojin is good, at all.

When I read through it I came away with the impression it was just basically a mecha series with poor characters hiding behind "fleshy titan reskin". Other than the artwork I didn't find it enjoyable or impressive in almost any way. It's just Jack the Giant killer, the Incredible Hulk, and Gundam haphazardly smashed together.

Thirded on the Shingeki mediocrity. The anime looks really nice I'll admit but it's the same issue of people being unable to distinguish good art/good story. For me really characters are what make a work stand out, and none of the characters in Shingeki are all that interesting IMO. They're all like....normal shounen character tropes just to their logical extremes. Which works sometimes, but is most of the time off putting.

It's because I like characters more than story that I vehemently hate Naruto as well. Once again it's as if Kishimoto took a shounen trope checklist and made sure he had each one without trying to vary them or make them unique in any way. Granted I stopped reading Naruto soon after part one ended, but from what I've heard it really only gets worse. What with characters having inconsistent motives and behaviors...and even their moves are inconsistent.

But yeah, I'm perfectly fine with a story that doesn't go anywhere as long as the characters are engaging. I'm sort of tired of the notion that something has to be a psychological thriller to be good, or dark and brooding to be worth the time of day. It's why I like Shounen more than seinen....stories that have a sense of spirit and adventure will always get me pumped. Of course I don't like how shounen manga tend to ignore their own internal sense of logic. I have a pretty high threshold for stretching my own limits of disbelief, so when I'm like 'durrr that's stupid', a series is doing a really bad job of not imploding on itself.

Lastly I'm kind of annoyed with people who say 'this is too long so it must suck'. One piece despite being a little slow lately has still managed to stay relatively awesome over it's over ten year run, and even stuff like Conan is good once it revisits it's story. Granted there are cases where a story just needs to end, but I'd rather an author be able to explore all potentials of a plot than to make a quick series just because it's more convenient to collect.

 

[thatguy3331]

Hooboy. I got a big one.(pretty sure I'm the only one that thinks this...in the world)

I don't think Shingeki no Kyojin is good, at all.

When I read through it I came away with the impression it was just basically a mecha series with poor characters hiding behind "fleshy titan reskin". Other than the artwork I didn't find it enjoyable or impressive in almost any way. It's just Jack the Giant killer, the Incredible Hulk, and Gundam haphazardly smashed together.

I hate to make it seem as though I'm joining in on some sort of group (especially given the sort of thread this is) but I somewhat agree.

It isn't that I think AoT is wholly bad, I just found it a tad bit more comical after watching the anime. I'm not sure if I'd feel differently reading the manga but after a few episodes I really found myself laughing at scenes I was supposed to think were gruelsome or "epic". I'm also on board with Bomber D. in that I'm sick and tired of seeing ONLY psychological thrillers and gore shows being labeled as "Masterpieces" while everything else is a pile of shit beneath it.

I personally like it when a series can have a good meaningful plot along WITH being fun and enjoyable. I don't really care for a story that JUST plays mind games with me but not giving me and not giving me anything to acctually attach to. If I were to give an example, I'd go with my impressions on Psycho Pass. Sure the story was kind of engaging and I was kind of curious about what was going to happen next, but when one of the characters got killed off, I realized just how little I acctually cared for any of them. I was pretty much watching it just so I could have the satasfaction of knowing what would happen at the end, not because I cared about what would happen to Kogami or any of those other guys. It was why that season I acctually liked Robotics; notes more despite having a poorer ending.

Togashi is extremely overrated and doesn't deserve being defended for being too lazy to work on his manga and not giving a shit at all. HxH is probably like Toriko, not as good as people make it out to be. Pretty annoyed with how people defend Togashi when you actually have better and more hardworking mangaka like Oda and Kishi working on their manga, even if Kishi seems to not give a shit at all.

While I am a complete fan of Hunter x Hunter and Togashi...thank you. I was seriously becoming scared of the guy because I was BARELY hearing any bad things about HxH recently. I mean not ONE. I like the series and all, its one of my favorites, but even my other favorites have SOME haters!(not that I'm calling you a hater, just..you know...)

 

[REN KOUEN]

i like some animes better than their manga counterparts

 

[M3J]

I hate to make it seem as though I'm joining in on some sort of group (especially given the sort of thread this is) but I somewhat agree.

It isn't that I think AoT is wholly bad, I just found it a tad bit more comical after watching the anime. I'm not sure if I'd feel differently reading the manga but after a few episodes I really found myself laughing at scenes I was supposed to think were gruelsome or "epic". I'm also on board with Bomber D. in that I'm sick and tired of seeing ONLY psychological thrillers and gore shows being labeled as "Masterpieces" while everything else is a pile of shit beneath it.

I personally like it when a series can have a good meaningful plot along WITH being fun and enjoyable. I don't really care for a story that JUST plays mind games with me but not giving me and not giving me anything to acctually attach to. If I were to give an example, I'd go with my impressions on Psycho Pass. Sure the story was kind of engaging and I was kind of curious about what was going to happen next, but when one of the characters got killed off, I realized just how little I acctually cared for any of them. I was pretty much watching it just so I could have the satasfaction of knowing what would happen at the end, not because I cared about what would happen to Kogami or any of those other guys. It was why that season I acctually liked Robotics; notes more despite having a poorer ending.



While I am a complete fan of Hunter x Hunter and Togashi...thank you. I was seriously becoming scared of the guy because I was BARELY hearing any bad things about HxH recently. I mean not ONE. I like the series and all, its one of my favorites, but even my other favorites have SOME haters!(not that I'm calling you a hater, just..you know...)

I've started reading HxH and it's not that bad, but it doesn't seem to be that good or groundbreaking. I'm just annoyed with its fandom, how they defend Togashi being a lazy ass and say HxH is the "bestest" thing ever.

 

[Jammin]

Not to heap on HxH but I'm with you guys too

And I've always suspected there is quite a big silent group of people that don't think as highly of Hunter X Hunter as it's fans do. It just one of those odd things that you either "think is amazing" or you "don't get it". I don't get it, and I wrote a series review of it once to that effect, but since it comes out so rarely it's something I just never find myself discussing the series very much.

I usually just forget about it until a discussion of "great shounen series" comes up and somebody throws it into the discussion.

 

[Kaiten]

I'm not going to bother arguing taste. I'll let a professional do that for me: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/house-of-1000-manga/2012-04-26

A nice summation of what makes HxH so special, and why it has such a dedicated fanbase. Among shounen action, I would put HxH ahead of even One Piece.

 

[REN KOUEN]

I've started reading HxH and it's not that bad, but it doesn't seem to be that good or groundbreaking. I'm just annoyed with its fandom, how they defend Togashi being a lazy ass and say HxH is the "bestest" thing ever.

the artwork in the manga show some of togashi's impatience or laziness

(which is also evident by his extended hiatuses in HXH due to him playing dragonquest....thats right dragonquest....)

however i must admit the power-structure and character detail in HXH Is nothing short of amazing, the plot is so well written that it makes up for his lack of artistic detail

the whole nen system for power and how well designed , thought out , and organized it is sets a good example for how other shounen manga should develop their power structure

---------- Post added at 12:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 12:20 PM ----------

I'm not going to bother arguing taste. I'll let a professional do that for me: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/house-of-1000-manga/2012-04-26

A nice summation of what makes HxH so special, and why it has such a dedicated fanbase. Among shounen action, I would put HxH ahead of even One Piece.

oddly enough HXH and OP are my two favorites

i love bleach naruto and DGM also

but those two are the top

 

[M3J]

Not to heap on HxH but I'm with you guys too

And I've always suspected there is quite a big silent group of people that don't think as highly of Hunter X Hunter as it's fans do. It just one of those odd things that you either "think is amazing" or you "don't get it". I don't get it, and I wrote a series review of it once to that effect, but since it comes out so rarely it's something I just never find myself discussing the series very much.

I usually just forget about it until a discussion of "great shounen series" comes up and somebody throws it into the discussion.

I guess the hiatus adds to the prestige of HxH and makes it look better than it is.

I'm not going to bother arguing taste. I'll let a professional do that for me: http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/house-of-1000-manga/2012-04-26

A nice summation of what makes HxH so special, and why it has such a dedicated fanbase. Among shounen action, I would put HxH ahead of even One Piece.

Professional. Sure. Interesting theories as to why Togashi is being a lazy git with HxH.

But yes, it does have a dedicated fanbase. Fanbase who'd probably think a new chapter that has a panel of poop is a work of art and a great chapter.

---

Wish I could think about the manga itself more, but I haven't gotten past chapter 5 in days, likely the combination of bad quality and other distractions. If anyone does know of a place where I can read HxH in good quality, please let me know. Unlike Toriko, HxH doesn't seem to be bad at all.

the artwork in the manga show some of togashi's impatience or laziness

(which is also evident by his extended hiatuses in HXH due to him playing dragonquest....thats right dragonquest....)

however i must admit the power-structure and character detail in HXH Is nothing short of amazing, the plot is so well written that it makes up for his lack of artistic detail

the whole nen system for power and how well designed , thought out , and organized it is sets a good example for how other shounen manga should develop their power structure

I don't get why fans defend Togashi. If he took a month or year break and got back to doing the manga, or worked a year and took a break for a year, I would understand. But he's taking an indefinite break, with possibly no plans to get back into doing the manga. Not only is that unprofessional, but it's also irresponsible for Togashi to do so.

One good thing about most Naruto fans is that we're not that blind towards the series or the mangaka; many of us accept the bad quality of the series and Kishi being horrible. If Kishi took an indefinite break, I would be very annoyed and unhappy, I would not kiss his ass or praise him, though I wouldn't mind if he took a break for few weeks.

In this case though, I consider Kishi and Oda two superior mangaka to Togashi because they actually do their work, even if Kishi does a bad job. They don't take indefinite breaks just because they're lazy or jerks. Hell, even sick and hospitalized Oda still continued to work on the manga.

 

[thatguy3331]

Wish I could think about the manga itself more, but I haven't gotten past chapter 5 in days, likely the combination of bad quality and other distractions. If anyone does know of a place where I can read HxH in good quality, please let me know. Unlike Toriko, HxH doesn't seem to be bad at all.

2011 anime on crunchyroll?