Discussion V was murdered theory

[projectX]

I think V was the strongest in term of power among irregulars and Zahard was second.V was good with everyone not matter weak or strong but Zahard wanted to be on the top.This is the reason he make contract with guardians to became stronger from V with so called 10 great family leaders but this make him limited to climb the Tower.V wanted to go outside with Arlene but Zahard was obbesed with Arlene.My theory is that Zahard still wasnt stronger from V after contract so he killed him with La Po Bia and Arie family heads.After this they wrote the fake letter to Arlene with hope to return.
It dont make sense for V to want Arlene to return to Zahard and co.
Even if your kid was killed from the man you will never want to return?It dont make sense.I think Garam know this but she dont tell to Baam because he is still not ready to face them

 

[projectX]

I don't think V was stronger than Zahard. If he was then V could have just beaten Zahard and the whole conflict would never have happened.

The main reason Zahard to make a contract was to kill V and take Arlene as his wife.He wanted to be a king of anything and anyone.But V was a stone of his way.

 

[Demonspeed]

I can't imagine V being stronger than Zahard and he is a very suspicious character. These contracts were for immortality and V refused it IIRC.

Zahard isn't the type who would face people in groups like that and if that's what he wanted to do then he could have killed him earlier since he had all his other companions but he and Arlen.

 

[Ripcord]

I wonder if it was more like an Aslan vs Ice Queen scenario. Seems likely V had no choice but to give up his life.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

By the looks of It, seems Jahad already had some sort of contract with the 3-eyed creature by Floor 44, as seen by Data Jahad. Perhaps he couldn't use the red tentacles, we didn't see him using It in HF. And we did see he's got another weapon and a mantle in his adult version. So the changes after that Floor may not be a contract, and I doubt Arlene would be tricked to think It was a fair fight If It wasn't. Jahad did win Fair and Square, and like a Lion, he killed his rival's cub to get the lionesse to be open to mate sooner. Jahad is likely V's weakness, Just like a needle pops an orb (see Black March on Steel Eel cage in first Floor).

 

[kkck]

None of what we have seen actually suggests V was stronger than zahard. That said, there isn't a reference to his strength anywhere. But I have trouble seeing how he could be the strongest tbh. It just.... doesn't fit with the situation. Zahard was the leader here.

I also doubt V wanted to go outside. If anything, he sounds like someone who wouldn't want to leave the tower. He was the one who cared about the tower's residents and the one apparently fittest to be king. The letter being forged... would be weird. Who would forge it and why? Zahard erased their existence, what good is forging their history?

 

[Ripcord]

None of what we have seen actually suggests V was stronger than zahard. That said, there isn't a reference to his strength anywhere. But I have trouble seeing how he could be the strongest tbh. It just.... doesn't fit with the situation. Zahard was the leader here.

I also doubt V wanted to go outside. If anything, he sounds like someone who wouldn't want to leave the tower. He was the one who cared about the tower's residents and the one apparently fittest to be king. The letter being forged... would be weird. Who would forge it and why? Zahard erased their existence, what good is forging their history?

They were rivals so at least they had to be close in strength.

 

[shaheer]

I think V was the strongest in term of power among irregulars and Zahard was second.

No Just no, I mean come on. Zahard is the strongest they had even Eudan said Zahard was their leader. Nothing indicates that V could have been stronger than Hon much less stronger than Zahard who is decisively stronger than Hon.
V at best was stronger than Hon. Also, his letter makes sense they lost his son was brutally killed his wife commits suicide from time to time they are on the run. Seriously if Arlene was suicidal doesn't that makes sense that V would at least be similarly so? It's his kid too it was his fight as well and most likely he led the revolution and lost everything his wife though living is dead inside.
The best he can do is relieve him from the pain and that's what he did. I am not saying suicide is a good thing or understandable I m saying that he suicided makes sense in the story given Arelene also tried.

 

[Demonspeed]

They were rivals so at least they had to be close in strength.

It's not really been said that they were rivals, though what they said about them sounds like typical rivalry elements. It's been said that they argued a lot and Arlen was needed to calm them down.

All the Irregulars are powerful, but it's been made clear that Zahard was the best. Baam(disregarding Urek) is the one who has the potential to defeat him. We even know about Zahard defeating Hon 10-0. From what we know I believe V was the second strongest, but the gap between him and Zahard should still be rather large.

Baam VS Data Zahard was insane. Even with Baam's talents and all these power ups, it ended with a draw. Data Zahard gave up but it's not because Baam was stronger. I am not even sure that Data Eduan could push Data Zahard to use Leviathan.

 

[shaheer]

well to be fair to Bam he never really traveled with other irregulars so his leveling up was comparatively complacent compared to Zahards. By the time they entered into the HF they already had an idea on their elements and tension and internal-external shinworyu, whereas Bam just learned inside it so was necessarily handicapped. The handicap was i believe offsetted by the thorn and soul powers.

 

[Jack Van Burace]

I think all are forgetting something Very important that can perfectly explain why V Lost: he didn't accept the imortality Deal, Jahad did. If V was evenly tied to Jahad, him being killable while the other is immortal means a big disadvantage. Jahad only had to Go at Full force in a suicidal attack, where both would get killed, except only V would die.

If Bam gets to his Apex of Power and has a way to kill immortals (Thorn?) then the Battle Will be repeated with equal chances: both killable. If anything, that fight between V and Jahad unfair because V never took the deal.

--- Double Post Merged, Nov 17, 2018, Original Post Date: Nov 17, 2018 ---

I can even imagine that Arlene didn't intervene cause she wanted V to accept the imortality too and spend the eternity with her. Maybe she thought the danger of getting killed would convince him, but It didn't Work as she expected.

 

[VON]

It's not really been said that they were rivals, though what they said about them sounds like typical rivalry elements. It's been said that they argued a lot and Arlen was needed to calm them down.

All the Irregulars are powerful, but it's been made clear that Zahard was the best. Baam(disregarding Urek) is the one who has the potential to defeat him. We even know about Zahard defeating Hon 10-0. From what we know I believe V was the second strongest, but the gap between him and Zahard should still be rather large.

Baam VS Data Zahard was insane. Even with Baam's talents and all these power ups, it ended with a draw. Data Zahard gave up but it's not because Baam was stronger. I am not even sure that Data Eduan could push Data Zahard to use Leviathan.

I think that last part is pushing it too much.

Data Eduan was perfectly capable of matching up against Data Jahad in their bouts and each used their own attacks to cancel one another out.

Eduan’s mount azul could be used to counter Leviathan.

 

[kkck]

I think that last part is pushing it too much.

Data Eduan was perfectly capable of matching up against Data Jahad in their bouts and each used their own attacks to cancel one another out.

Eduan’s mount azul could be used to counter Leviathan.

montana azul was just a technique... against zahard while using a powerful weapon. I doubt it'd be enough to be honest, a decent weapon makes a huge difference in combat. Add to that the sheer functionality data zahard got from his needle. It's not merely that zahard is good with a needle. Zahard is someone who excels at every aspect of shinsoo combat. An incredibly powerful body, superb shinsoo control, a variety of techniques... everything. And his needle allowed him to utilize and combine all of it at once. eduan of course is also very strong and has superb shinsoo control and a bunch of other stuff but I don't see how he could match what zahard with his needle without a weapon of his own.

 

[VON]

montana azul was just a technique... against zahard while using a powerful weapon. I doubt it'd be enough to be honest, a decent weapon makes a huge difference in combat. Add to that the sheer functionality data zahard got from his needle. It's not merely that zahard is good with a needle. Zahard is someone who excels at every aspect of shinsoo combat. An incredibly powerful body, superb shinsoo control, a variety of techniques... everything. And his needle allowed him to utilize and combine all of it at once. eduan of course is also very strong and has superb shinsoo control and a bunch of other stuff but I don't see how he could match what zahard with his needle without a weapon of his own.

Eduan's lightning spear should be counted as a weapon.

a weapon made of shinsoo should be capable of matching up against Jahad's needle

 

[kkck]

Eduan's lightning spear should be counted as a weapon.

a weapon made of shinsoo should be capable of matching up against Jahad's needle

but then... whats the point of zahard having a physical weapon if a shinsoo one works just as well? The implication here should be that zahard's weapon was an improvement over his shinsoo golden needle. So... does it make sense that eduan can can match with a shinsoo needle what zahard can do with what was described as a particularly powerful weapon? Weapons in the tower have been shown as effectively being substantial powerups for the users in general. That's why several of the warriors eventually got weapons as they climbed the tower. Zahard likely got a new needle, hon has strongest weapon in the tower, eduan has his own fancy spear (can't recall the name).

Shinsoo weapons are, well, weapons but physical weapons of sufficient quality have been shown to be important upgrades over that. Zahard is supposed to be the strongest of the companions.... I don't see how its reasonable to suggest how eduan with just a shinsoo weapon can match zahard with a powerful needle.

 

[Ripcord]

Eduan's lightning spear should be counted as a weapon.

a weapon made of shinsoo should be capable of matching up against Jahad's needle

Right. They are equivalent as they are both made with shinsoo and the natural quality of each.

 

[Kallavan]

Yeah I agree with others, Jahad was already a beast back then and even more now, he was an anomaly even among the 10 GW.

In fact, I can't understand why some people are obsessed by Urek to the point of saying that he is stronger than Jahad but the latter could win only due his immortality contracts.

Come on Urek is Superman, Jahad is GOD. Jahad wipe the floor with him.

 

[kkck]

I could see zahard being actually stronger than urek and the reverse as well but I do think part of the issue here is that rankings at that level probably give us less of a picture of what is going on than lesser rankings. We basically have no clue whatsoever of how the top 20 compare to one another or whether the rankings even mean someone higher up would win against someone lower down. We know for instance that zahard is stronger than hon because we know they fought 10 times but even then without an idea of how much of a margin zahard has, for all we know zahard won all ten times by a hair.... And on the other hand we know from the lore that there are people lower in the rankings that zahard himself takes seriously. Molic is one case though of course molic is 12 in the ranking. To me its amazing that people can actually be so sure that urek or enryu are stronger than zahard... Of course its completely plausible that is the case but there is absolutely nothing to back up certainty on the issue.

 

[Kallavan]

Yeah exactly, but I tend to think that Jahad is under estimated because he has basically no feats due to his very rare appearences and that urek's were spectacular.

As a fisherman, jahad is certainly at least as strong physically as Urek

 

[Anzere1stclass]

By the looks of It, seems Jahad already had some sort of contract with the 3-eyed creature by Floor 44, as seen by Data Jahad. Perhaps he couldn't use the red tentacles, we didn't see him using It in HF. And we did see he's got another weapon and a mantle in his adult version. So the changes after that Floor may not be a contract, and I doubt Arlene would be tricked to think It was a fair fight If It wasn't. Jahad did win Fair and Square, and like a Lion, he killed his rival's cub to get the lionesse to be open to mate sooner. Jahad is likely V's weakness, Just like a needle pops an orb (see Black March on Steel Eel cage in first Floor).

It's implied by Hwang from hf that's Data Zahard can also use those Red tentacles horn things that real Zahard used to kill him,as when being stabbed,Hwang said something like
"That's power!,Lord Zahard?!".
my theory is that Data Zahard used his monster form only at last resort against powerful foes, his fight with Bam was just a duel to test him out if he can be a new "Adventure" for his real self,no reason for him to go all out,as he declared forfeit when witnessing Bam potential even though he could've continue they fight