Fantasy Vergo vs Zoro with Enma

[Critical mindset]

Is Zoro's cutting feat overrated much? Stone is a crystalline material that easily forms cracks, and these are just some examples of how easy it is to actually "cut" through stone
The Golem btw is around 300m something range as per these demonstrations

Spoiler

and here are the size of his legs compared to inflated Wadatsumi:

and here is the official magazine proportions of Dressrosa

Spoiler

The Colosseum ain't that big either. See here how Hajrudin is lying on his back in an arched position and still takes up the first two podiums, Hajrudin is confirmed to be 22m tall in wiki.

Spoiler

As such the colosseum is around let's say 60m tall. Pica was about twice as tall as the Old King's Plateau which was around twice as tall as the colosseum (I can only post 5 images so go watch this for yourself if you don't believe me). Pica is around 300m at most


What about Vergo?

Vergo has taken a counter shock (in medical terms a defibrillation meant to reset a disturbed heart rhtyhm (as doses as small as 12 miliamperes is enough to kill a human); in One Piece terms: Law meant to fucking kill Vergo by attacking his heart with electricity. Oda went out of his way to make Vergo into a monster, some kind of freak of nature actually (iron body, same as Big Mom). Counter Shock would kill just about anyone, so I say Vergo was mortally wounded from that attack. Still, he went up against Smoker nad finished him up in style. To actually create a shockwave like this by just following through with his swing with one arm and in a mortally wounded state at that, to me this is a much greater feat than Zoro cutting Pica. All the atual force, momentum and torque has been imparted to Smoker, and here he jsut casually swings through with just one arm(!) I can't imagine the damage he would've done to the wall (probably highly reinforced concrete we're talking about here) if there was no Smoker there and he had not taken a Counter Shock and massive damage prior to this.

I think Vergo wins solidly against Zoro. Vergo has shown nothing but stellar feats so far (breaking Sanji's fibula just by blocking) and is all around the best non-devil fruit fighter in my opinion. Zoro didn't really live up to the Enma hype last chapter (don't tell me any spoilers btw) and really I think Vergo is one of the most overlooked characters in the story

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Zoro wins even before Enma middiff.

I think Vergo is one of the most overlooked characters in the story

I honestly think he is one of the most overrated. He was hyped as fuck, but in the end kinda trashed by Law.

 

[Critical mindset]

Zoro wins even before Enma middiff.



I honestly think he is one of the most overrated. He was hyped as fuck, but in the end kinda trashed by Law.

lol so would everyone

 

[Sachsenhesse]

lol so would everyone

Doflamingo? Nearly all other relevant characters in this current arc? Law didnt showed much haki at all and was able to bypass "hakimaster" Vergo, Zoro who specializes in armanent haki wouldnt have much trouble with him. Pika also had a fullbodyhaki and it didnt helped at all. After enmatraining its even more of a noncontest.

 

[Shasha23]

Zoro wins even before Enma middiff.

More like low diff, Pica was stronger and only lasted so long because of his ability while Vergo on the other hand wont be able to run from Zoro, so Zoro pretty much OHKO again

I honestly think he is one of the most overrated. He was hyped as fuck, but in the end kinda trashed by Law.

People overate him because he beat Sanji, they forget that a supernova can pretty much one shot him.

 

[Critical mindset]

More like low diff, Pica was stronger and only lasted so long because of his ability while Vergo on the other hand wont be able to run from Zoro, so Zoro pretty much OHKO again



People overate him because he beat Sanji, they forget that a supernova can pretty much one shot him.

Sanji can bluewalk at 5000m water pressures while Zolo dies from 8000m

Zoro after nails

Sanji tanks ink arrows with his body that has samurai wanting to turn ships; Vergo breaks his leg just by blocking. Zoro is a freaking glass canon loser with trash durability

Vergo trashes a whole dozen of G-5 soldiers who attack him omnidirectionally with just one shigan; Zoro gets serious with same folders and then casually blocked by Tashigi

Here Zoro senses she doesnt out in any effort as she “has no will to fight”, ie Zoro has to go semi-serious against fodders and Tashigi casually and with minimal efforts blocks him. Vergo tears her up

Tashigi is even more durable than Zoro who gets treated for nails

Zoro can’t even finish off Monet properly with his ow air slashes, as an attack that was meant to kill hermerely scratches her cheek

lol, Zoro is way too overrated and Tashigi all things considered and if she gets a similar power up can push Zoro to a solid mid diff

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 3, 2020, Original Post Date: Jul 3, 2020 ---

Doflamingo? Nearly all other relevant characters in this current arc? Law didnt showed much haki at all and was able to bypass "hakimaster" Vergo, Zoro who specializes in armanent haki wouldnt have much trouble with him. Pika also had a fullbodyhaki and it didnt helped at all. After enmatraining its even more of a noncontest.

That speaks more to the durability of DDs strings. Law can slice up marine battleships, and those are laced with seastone underneath. You do realise Law’s ability is worth more than Primebeard’s head? If Paw can slice up seastone with lesser room attacks, what does that say about Vergo when he feels the need to envelop an entire island with his room and has the entire mountain range sliced in two? Was Pica the size of an island ?

 

[afromarco005]

First of all I appreciate the research put into yoir posts however you shouldn't confuse real world logic with one piece logic where magma burns fire.

Now your zoro comparisons are poor to say the least, arguments like nails hurt him are pretty dumb.
Zoro dies from 8000m ? was this ever shown in the manga or was it just your own conclusions? nico robin may as well have underestimated zoro's body?
Then again had real world logic applied to one piece, if Sanji's bones cracked from a mere kick then they should shatter under 5k~8k m of water pressure.

Lastly your choice of words "Zoro is a glass canon loser with trash durability" for example and the use of the " " emoji makes me think that you are most lilely an alternate account of King moe's and can't be taken seriously.

Btw Zoro low diffs Vergo.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

ith trash durability" for example and the use of the " " emoji makes me think that you are most lilely an alternate account of King moe's and can't be taken seriously.

Exactly my thoughts as soon as is saw "nails".

 

[Critical mindset]

First of all I appreciate the research put into yoir posts however you shouldn't confuse real world logic with one piece logic where magma burns fire.

Now your zoro comparisons are poor to say the least, arguments like nails hurt him are pretty dumb.
Zoro dies from 8000m ? was this ever shown in the manga or was it just your own conclusions? nico robin may as well have underestimated zoro's body?
Then again had real world logic applied to one piece, if Sanji's bones cracked from a mere kick then they should shatter under 5k~8k m of water pressure.

Lastly your choice of words "Zoro is a glass canon loser with trash durability" for example and the use of the " " emoji makes me think that you are most lilely an alternate account of King moe's and can't be taken seriously.

Btw Zoro low diffs Vergo.

Idk who the fuck King's Moe is (if it's True God Moe from worstgen then I'm a true fan of his) but no I am known as Critical Mindset from other forums where apparently the breadth of opinion extends farther than what I can only surmise to be a "Zoro>>Sanji" fanclub over here. Because Oda disagrees. They have always been portrayed as equals, and Oda even highlights Sanji over Zoro repeatedly pre timeskip; Sanji tanks an El Thor while Zoro goes down from lesser attack by Enel; Sanji was badly injured from Kalifa, yet fought an equal and even more ferocious fighter, Jabura, who actually had tekkai kempo and was thus way more powerful physically than Kaku; Sanji overpowered Oars while Zoro with Shushui (a power up) was unable to do the same, and Sanji also took way more damage than Zoro in Thriller Bark.

first let's see here how more monstrous Sanji is than Zoro in power

here Zoro needs Sanji's help (he gets flung with force) to throw his arm back. Sanji on the other hand is strong enough to (by himself) topple Oars and make him fall on his head

Spoiler: more pics

And here is a clear cut case of Sanji being more physically powerful

lol and do look at Zoro's gaze here as he can't believe Sanji actually did that

All Zoro can do is get washed

No wait, Zoro could do something: he could deflect a lesser attack by Oars just by deflecting - not actually matching the output and then overpowering Oars like Sanji. Zoro deflects it from the wrist, not the fist, ie he is onlt strong enough - with a power up mind you - to deflect.

Idk what Akainu meant. Flames have no mass per se, but magma does and he has better haki to top of it all off. His magma at the time > Ace's fire means not that that is a truth of the OP world. Akainu had refined his ability more than Ace. Does not take away the truth of Zoro's feat not being as overwhelming as you make it out to be. And also, he can't be all stone or he wouldn't be able to move and bend his limbs If Zoro was as overwhelmingly strong as you say he wouldn't b struggling, huffing an puffing vs heavy lifters (ie gifters)

Oda directly uses the nails to highlight the difference in durbility between Sanji and Zoro, as the latter succumbs to injuries from nails, while Sanji tanks the ink arrows that destroys the fleet of the samurai and have them wanting to turn ship; it's implied Zoro can't sustain the pressures of 8000m, while Sanji does just fine at 5000m, enough to implode submarines. Oda clearly distinguishes their level of durability to be worlds apart. And yes, that clearly underscores how physically monstrous Vergo is, to have Sanji no-sell 5000m water pressures, yet get his fibula broken just by Vergo trashing him.

What you're saying is a fucking joke

 

[ShadowHeart]

Any version of Zoro post timeskip beats Vergo.

 

[Brandish μ]

Vergo, a Doffy subordinate, is not going to defeat Zoro...

 

[Critical mindset]

Vergo, a Doffy subordinate, is not going to defeat Zoro...

DD sliced the leg off of the monster that had every VA shit themselves, including Momonga who was strong enough to slice open a seaking from the inside, a much better feat considering seakings out on the Calm Belt are way more durable than stone (as in the seakings aren't affected by the artillery from the warships); DD sliced up a meteorite to bits casually (Zoro can only halve it when he goes all out with ISDS); DD broke out of Aokiji's ice instantly in the manga (in the anime they prolonged it, but the manga has him breaking out the second he gets frozen) which as such puts him far above Jozu (and Zoro) in combat ability as Jozu (in spite of being physically more impressive) got frozen to the bone and lost an arm; DD used Jozu as a chair, the same guy that bench presses icebergs just for warm up. Jozu who was a monster got stopped in his track by DD. etc etc

Tell me again what Zoro has to Doffy

 

[Brandish μ]

Tell me again what Zoro has to Doffy

Wait, isn't this Zoro vs Vergo?

Point is, DD is commander level at best. Vergo is definitely below DD. Zoro shouldn't have much more trouble beating Vergo as he did claiming Pika.

 

[King Moe]

Honestly after seeing his performance in Wano with struggling with Gifters and him haven't beaten credible foe and even running away from likes of them like Apoo, I can't honestly say Zoro would defeat Vergo in full on fight. Vergo would knock him senseless given his speed and power unless your saying Gyukimaro and Kamazou (Nerfed) are stronger than him, than we beg to differ. Nothing honestly push him to beat Vergo and using Pica is poor example. He is nothing like Vergo especially in close combat fight. Vergo is more specialize in that and shown his Haki is on another level. Just because Law beat him, doesn't mean Zoro will given Law is on another level than Zoro after all on how Oda portrays him.

 

[goldb]

I don't see how Vergo would defeat Zoro, with or without Enma. At very best it's a tough challenge for Zoro, at worst if he tries to approach him the same way Pica while being clad in haki (or how he approached Law himself) Zoro would cut him down in a swift move.

It would be a fun fight though, him using his bamboo stick and seeing how much more pain Zoro would withstand being struck directly.

 

[King Moe]

I don't see how Vergo would defeat Zoro, with or without Enma. At very best it's a tough challenge for Zoro, at worst if he tries to approach him the same way Pica while being clad in haki (or how he approached Law himself) Zoro would cut him down in a swift move.

It would be a fun fight though, him using his bamboo stick and seeing how much more pain Zoro would withstand being struck directly.

We said that about Hawkins and Apoo, but look what happen when they fought. Zoro hasn't proven he can beat someone in credible fight as his only enemies he defeated were fodder-enemies, nothing to write home about.

Also can't compare them the same in Haki just because they served Doffy. Vergo clearly has better Haki and more close-up fighter while Pica is fodder who runs moment he can't handle it. Zoro wouldn't get the chance with Vergo like with Pica. Law did beat him, but make sense since Law is another level than Zoro. Doesn't mean Zoro can do the same.

At best he could take him, but Extreme-Diffed either way with or without Enma. Hasn't shown anything he can take out Vergo even easily as fodders doesn't translate taking him on.

 

[Takuan]

Aside from the thread and the arguments alone which are pure troll, could you please refrain from posting so many manga pages? It feels like you post entire chapters. At least use spoiler tags so that people don't have to scroll endlessly.

 

[goldb]

We said that about Hawkins and Apoo, but look what happen when they fought. Zoro hasn't proven he can beat someone in credible fight as his only enemies he defeated were fodder-enemies, nothing to write home about.

Also can't compare them the same in Haki just because they served Doffy. Vergo clearly has better Haki and more close-up fighter while Pica is fodder who runs moment he can't handle it. Zoro wouldn't get the chance with Vergo like with Pica. Law did beat him, but make sense since Law is another level than Zoro. Doesn't mean Zoro can do the same.

At best he could take him, but Extreme-Diffed either way with or without Enma. Hasn't shown anything he can take out Vergo even easily as fodders doesn't translate taking him on.

So in your opinion Zoro can just about manage fodder characters and can't defeat the likes of Apoo or Hawkins in a one on one fight?

I'm comparing the way in which they use haki; which is using CoA to clad their whole bodies. Vergo being a close-up fighter doesn't put Zoro at any sort of disadvantage whatsoever. Vergo being able to cover himself in haki and being a rokushiki user means his whole body is a weapon, so even without his bamboo stick, he'd still be able to fight Zoro; though that does him more harm than good.

I don't believe Zoro's haki is inferior to Vergo's. He proved that Pica was no match for him and as I said before at best it's a tough challenge for him but honestly I don't see that being the case. Even with arguably superior speed with his rokushiki, Zoro should be able to keep up with him and track his position. There's no area in Vergo's abilities that worries me in a fight against Zoro beyond normal fighting conditions.

Law being stronger than Zoro doesn't then mean that Zoro can't beat Vergo, all it proves is that Law is stronger than both.

 

[Critical mindset]

So in your opinion Zoro can just about manage fodder characters and can't defeat the likes of Apoo or Hawkins in a one on one fight?

I'm comparing the way in which they use haki; which is using CoA to clad their whole bodies. Vergo being a close-up fighter doesn't put Zoro at any sort of disadvantage whatsoever. Vergo being able to cover himself in haki and being a rokushiki user means his whole body is a weapon, so even without his bamboo stick, he'd still be able to fight Zoro; though that does him more harm than good.

I don't believe Zoro's haki is inferior to Vergo's. He proved that Pica was no match for him and as I said before at best it's a tough challenge for him but honestly I don't see that being the case. Even with arguably superior speed with his rokushiki, Zoro should be able to keep up with him and track his position. There's no area in Vergo's abilities that worries me in a fight against Zoro beyond normal fighting conditions.

Law being stronger than Zoro doesn't then mean that Zoro can't beat Vergo, all it proves is that Law is stronger than both.

In the Vivre Card Vergo scene's using FBH had a brief caption on the last Vivre card: (quote)
''It super-hardening all your body through your armed ambition, your hard-trained bousoushoku''

The act of hardening by haki is commonly referred to in the manga as ''hardening'' (kouka). Except that in Vergo's card a ''super-hardening'' was used (CHOU KOUKA). There is a prefix before the common kouka. (This translation has been confirmed by two japanese translators, and the official Databook that gets released to the public is just a summary, where there is actually more info contained in the Vivre Card that gets translated)

In the description of the Pica card using FBH there is no such prefix of ''super'' (CHOU KOUKA), so it is clear that the cards wanted to treat Vergo's haki as something special. As of now, only Vergo has been described in this superlative way in terms of armament hardening. This is a translation that has now been confirmed by two translators, one of which is @Puckthegreat, a native japanese on the worstgen forum.

Vergo is also the only one who has been shown to be able to combine gardening with elastic properties and as such display much better application of armament haki. Elastic means it can act as a good shock absorber while being hard at the same time.

DD and a world-renowned scientist, Caesar, all praises Vergo’s haki as something else, and this is mid-battle where he trivialises Luffy, his haki, gears and all his allies: Vergo will kill them all

Pica is not close to Vergo when it comes to CoA hardening (see hardening, which is another application of hai than barrier and emissive haki). Vergo has top tier hardening, whereas Pica’s came up out of nowhere at the end of the battle. they’re worlds apart

 

[King Moe]

So in your opinion Zoro can just about manage fodder characters and can't defeat the likes of Apoo or Hawkins in a one on one fight?

I'm comparing the way in which they use haki; which is using CoA to clad their whole bodies. Vergo being a close-up fighter doesn't put Zoro at any sort of disadvantage whatsoever. Vergo being able to cover himself in haki and being a rokushiki user means his whole body is a weapon, so even without his bamboo stick, he'd still be able to fight Zoro; though that does him more harm than good.

I don't believe Zoro's haki is inferior to Vergo's. He proved that Pica was no match for him and as I said before at best it's a tough challenge for him but honestly I don't see that being the case. Even with arguably superior speed with his rokushiki, Zoro should be able to keep up with him and track his position. There's no area in Vergo's abilities that worries me in a fight against Zoro beyond normal fighting conditions.

Law being stronger than Zoro doesn't then mean that Zoro can't beat Vergo, all it proves is that Law is stronger than both.

Nah, he can manage, but not with legit top tier threats like those guys and from how it seems, he was left bloody while they were fine. He also not good with tricky foes to boot since one of them brought him to his knees.

As for Vergo and Pica, like Critical Mindset put it, their Haki and power is way different and on another level. You can't compare them same just because they do same thing. That's like saying we can put WB and Luffy on same level given they know Hardening. That isn't case here and didn't say Zoro's Haki is inferior as he can hurt him if Vergo isn't careful, but Vergo is not someone to take someone for granted so would corner Zoro from preventing to gain momentum in his striking stances like he did with Law. Zoro doesn't same speed as Vergo and that shown to cost him when he has poor reflexes to match and use Haki to defend in time. Zoro maybe can hold out with power, but his durability, stamina, and speed aren't that good especially former aren't how they used to be.

I give Zoro losing without Enma, but with it, Extreme Diffed Either way since if he can use enough force could lay major damage on Vergo unless tanking from Vergo can handle it and knock Zoro back senseless afterwards.