Discussion Vivre Card: One Piece Visual Dictionary

[mattiaildivino]

I'm surprised that noone has spoken about the confirmation of their being a different race of giants; Ancient Giants that Oars Jr is part of. More importantly we learned that though he's lived for 72 years, mentally he's still a child in respect to his race; which explains why his speech during the war seemed...slow.

His bounty seems accurate enough, considering what his strength and size could do to not only citizens but actual lands. In retrospect though, I'm disappointed at Squard's bounty of 210 million. When all these NW captains allied with Whitebeard were introduced, I thought they'd be some big shots with high bounty but even Supernovas have much higher bounty than these guys.

Just found out this thread and the fact Jinbe's new bounty has been revealed months ago.
I utterly agree with you, Squard's bounty doesn't make any sense, but nor do bounties themselves, as Oda messed them up so badly at the end of Doffy's saga...
I quite disagree with Oars Jr having a bounty at all, as when he appeared the marines didn't even know he existed (just as a lot of them weren't aware of WB and Marco's powers, but that's just Oda's usual incoherence, as if people went to war without being told about their enemies' abilities... ). In my opinion, it'd have been a better device if Oars hadn't had a bounty, because of the fact he's been living in the furthest part of the NW, unbeknownst to the marines...
On a side note: is Oars still alive??? I was sure he died there, as he fell down in the center of the war, stripped of a leg by Doflamingo and stabbed by Moria...

--- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2019, Original Post Date: May 13, 2019 ---

Squardo's bounty makes sense. Pekoms also had the bounty of a rookie, but from what we have seen, there's about only 10 people stronger than him in the Big Mom Pirates. Whitebeard had 16 commanders and 43 allied crews, not everyone can be a big-shot.

Also wasn't it implied that the allies fought against the vice-admirals?

Actually, it doesn't make sense at all. I really don't understand why people still feel the need to justify whatever mistake an author makes... Let's agree on that: Squard's bounty (like so many other things in this manga) is a nonsense. He is one of the few captains who was reckoned with, when they appeared here: https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-551-page-12.html . We are talking about a pirate who's been in the New World for at least 22 years, who fought Roger and, despite losing his crew, assembled another one and kept on being a captain, allied with WB. In the war, he's the one Whitebeard wanted to entrust the lead of the other NW captains to (yet, as he was with Akainu, WB gave the role to the Decalvan bros). Eventually, he even stated he would engage the opponents to allow everyone else to escape, he had to be one of the strongest there! Imo, his bounty should have been around 350 M.
I know these are just useless discussions, but I still wanted to share my POV, as I used to like this manga a lot until some years ago...

--- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2019 ---

IMHO the author didn't knew how high the bounties would get later in the series. While it has been explained that the Shichibukai bounties are frozen and don't represent their current threat, when Crocodile's bounty of 80 million was first mentioned, the reaction was that of it being the real deal.



When Smoker was talking with the Strawhats about Robin or Crocodile bounties, he said that if the two joined forced they would literally endanger the world.

There's also Dorry and Broggy, it was said that their crew terrified the world, however their bounties was mere 100 million.



More recently, Mother Caramel stopped the execution of some of their crew members in Marineford, arguing that it would endanger Humanity.

Thanks for all the pictures, you summarized it well. Oda did a splendid job by giving Luffy "only" 400 M after all his deeds, although people were expecting his bounty to go up to 750 M, if I remember correctly. That would have made all the previous bounties pointless, as all the shichibukai didn't surpass 340 M, with characters blabbering they had never seen bounties that high in the world. Now it turns out the newspaper contains a lot of guys with bounty around or higher than a billion, that's just bad writing

 

[King Moe]

Just found out this thread and the fact Jinbe's new bounty has been revealed months ago.
I utterly agree with you, Squard's bounty doesn't make any sense, but nor do bounties themselves, as Oda messed them up so badly at the end of Doffy's saga...
I quite disagree with Oars Jr having a bounty at all, as when he appeared the marines didn't even know he existed (just as a lot of them weren't aware of WB and Marco's powers, but that's just Oda's usual incoherence, as if people went to war without being told about their enemies' abilities... ). In my opinion, it'd have been a better device if Oars hadn't had a bounty, because of the fact he's been living in the furthest part of the NW, unbeknownst to the marines...
On a side note: is Oars still alive??? I was sure he died there, as he fell down in the center of the war, stripped of a leg by Doflamingo and stabbed by Moria...

--- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2019, Original Post Date: May 13, 2019 ---

Actually, it doesn't make sense at all. I really don't understand why people still feel the need to justify whatever mistake an author makes... Let's agree on that: Squard's bounty (like so many other things in this manga) is a nonsense. He is one of the few captains who was reckoned with, when they appeared here: https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-551-page-12.html . We are talking about a pirate who's been in the New World for at least 22 years, who fought Roger and, despite losing his crew, assembled another one and kept on being a captain, allied with WB. In the war, he's the one Whitebeard wanted to entrust the lead of the other NW captains to (yet, as he was with Akainu, WB gave the role to the Decalvan bros). Eventually, he even stated he would engage the opponents to allow everyone else to escape, he had to be one of the strongest there! Imo, his bounty should have been around 350 M.
I know these are just useless discussions, but I still wanted to share my POV, as I used to like this manga a lot until some years ago...

--- Double Post Merged, May 13, 2019 ---

Thanks for all the pictures, you summarized it well. Oda did a splendid job by giving Luffy "only" 400 M after all his deeds, although people were expecting his bounty to go up to 750 M, if I remember correctly. That would have made all the previous bounties pointless, as all the shichibukai didn't surpass 340 M, with characters blabbering they had never seen bounties that high in the world. Now it turns out the newspaper contains a lot of guys with bounty around or higher than a billion, that's just bad writing

We never seen majority characters on their actions and fight since it center around Luffy and others more. So saying the bounty doesn't make sense or bad writing isn't so and they all wouldn't be up there on having much higher bounties either since each one are different and dangerous in their own way on having bounties around.

Think your stretching there to say this is bad on Oda when it's not. There many reasons to explain on how bounties can pierce and given, so if Oda thinks this character worthy of it, he has personal mindset why they are like that end of the day since they do things off-screen than on-screen. Not fair to judge by on-screen moments only.

 

[Fox666]

On a side note: is Oars still alive??? I was sure he died there, as he fell down in the center of the war, stripped of a leg by Doflamingo and stabbed by Moria...

Oars was still alive after being injured by Doflamingo and Moriah, as he pushed Whitebeard's ship in the bay. However his situation at the end of the war wasn't cleared.

Actually, it doesn't make sense at all. I really don't understand why people still feel the need to justify whatever mistake an author makes... Let's agree on that: Squard's bounty (like so many other things in this manga) is a nonsense. He is one of the few captains who was reckoned with, when they appeared here: https://mangalife.us/read-online/One-Piece-chapter-551-page-12.html . We are talking about a pirate who's been in the New World for at least 22 years, who fought Roger and, despite losing his crew, assembled another one and kept on being a captain, allied with WB. In the war, he's the one Whitebeard wanted to entrust the lead of the other NW captains to (yet, as he was with Akainu, WB gave the role to the Decalvan bros). Eventually, he even stated he would engage the opponents to allow everyone else to escape, he had to be one of the strongest there! Imo, his bounty should have been around 350 M.
I know these are just useless discussions, but I still wanted to share my POV, as I used to like this manga a lot until some years ago...

Squardo had been in the New World for decades, but he was not a successful pirate. He lost all of his crew, and went on to work under Whitebeard.

Thanks for all the pictures, you summarized it well. Oda did a splendid job by giving Luffy "only" 400 M after all his deeds, although people were expecting his bounty to go up to 750 M, if I remember correctly. That would have made all the previous bounties pointless, as all the shichibukai didn't surpass 340 M, with characters blabbering they had never seen bounties that high in the world. Now it turns out the newspaper contains a lot of guys with bounty around or higher than a billion, that's just bad writing

You sure these characters didn't meant they had never seen such bounty heads in person? I'm sure the author always planned for the likes of Roger or Shanks to have higher bounties than any of these.

 

[thedude]

Oars was still alive after being injured by Doflamingo and Moriah, as he pushed Whitebeard's ship in the bay. However his situation at the end of the war wasn't cleared.


Squardo had been in the New World for decades, but he was not a successful pirate. He lost all of his crew, and went on to work under Whitebeard.


You sure these characters didn't meant they had never seen such bounty heads in person? I'm sure the author always planned for the likes of Roger or Shanks to have higher bounties than any of these.

Agreed, just because you are a pirate for a few decades doesn't mean the government has to give a shit about you or consider you a grave threat. $210M seems a lot, the WG considers the Yonko and their main crew bigger threats. Guys who work under them are far less of a concern.

Also, people make wayyyyyyy too big a deal about bounties of nobody characters. Ultimately, who cares what Squardo's bounty is?

 

[Fox666]

In the end they are just bounties.

A super strong character like Blackbeard spent decades doing nothing that would put him on the radar, so he had no bounty. While Robin had a huge bounty since she was a child for knowing how to read the Poneglyph.

 

[hokageji]

It's not strange that Buffalo and Baby 5 have no bounties. It's Dellinger who is crazy for having a bounty at age of 6 or less.

Maybe its got to do something with his bloodline, if that makes any sense? He's half fishmen and half human, probably giving him some advantages over normal fishmen too? Just a guess. the other person with this is a commander in a Yonkou with a billion bounty.

 

[Admiral Teach]

Bounties represent misdeeds, to an extent, not power. Eustass Kid was a vicious murdering, marauding pirate. He had a higher Bounty than Luffy. Combat strength plays in only as one factor of bounties, the majority of the numbers besides battle strength representing threat to the government order of things and the aforementioned misdeeds. If someone is just all combat strength, they will have a lower bounty than, say, Robin, who could threaten the world by herself. With Crocodile, absolutely.

People always take Bounties as DBZ powerlevels. It's over 80,000 Million beli! Is not the same as, "Over 9000!". It just isn't. It never has been. It indicates how dangerous a person is, yes, relative to their behavior toward other people. The WG wants people to assume Robin and her kind are beyond perilous and are in fact walking sin. People like Arlong were considered quite the threat in East Blue because he was not only powerful for the region, he was enslaving a village, preached Fishman supremacism, and killed regular men with reckless abandon it seems, unless they paid his extortion fee. That's not someone you want to walk up to and talk with.

But compared to say, Arlong, Jack the Draught could not possibly care less about your money. He wants destruction. He is a monster. To top it off, he's a pirate under a Yonkou, and is a top-tier combatant. That satisfies all three major criteria (danger to WG, danger to everyone around them, high combat power) and so his bounty is 1 Billion Beli whereas someone who might be comparatively as strong may not, like Cracker. Less bounty because he's less vicious, one would presume. Smoothie is another example. Her powers alone would give her a bounty, assuming she is using them on people outside Totland often enough, she's also under a Yonkou, but she is a lazy woman who apparently never does much unless she has to. She only guarded the treasure, for instance, because Baron Tamago bribed her with women to juice. So she's not exactly the city-destroying monstrosity that Jack is and her bounty reflects it.

 

[hokageji]

Bounty does represent threat or damage to the world government, but as we've seen in Luffy's case, it can be for other reasons too.... Morgan can influence bounties so just if Morgan thought he is scary, it could be that his bounty could've increased. I mean, what if he's half fishmen and half Oni, or the race of humans Kaido belongs too? He's just too young to have fully grown into a giant...

 

[mattiaildivino]

Bounties have become a festival. Does someone really justify the absurdness of giving Luffy just 400 Millions when he literally monopolized the whole paramount war (and when he revealed CoC everyone was shocked, Aokiji included) and clobbered Celestial Dragons? Jinbe was stronger than him but did almost nothing compared to him, and yet his bounty was higher than Luffy's. He should have surpassed Luffy only after joining BM, but not during the war. And what about Fisher Tiger, said to be the only one who wreaked havoc in Mariejoia and who attacked the CDs, just to receive a poor 230 M bounty?
As some guys already discussed above, until the time-skip they still made sense, as we were told how dangerous Robin was for the world with such a bounty, not to mention Dory and Brogy who frightened the whole world, whose 100 M is now trash.
I'm not an hater, just a rational person who's been reading manga since I was a child. When you wonder about Tamago's 429 M or Chinjao (over 500, when he was defeated with one punch by Garp) you just can't disagree with him, unless you are blind!

 

[Fox666]

Credits to ScotchImformer

 

[McNuss]

Bounties have become a festival. Does someone really justify the absurdness of giving Luffy just 400 Millions when he literally monopolized the whole paramount war (and when he revealed CoC everyone was shocked, Aokiji included) and clobbered Celestial Dragons? Jinbe was stronger than him but did almost nothing compared to him, and yet his bounty was higher than Luffy's. He should have surpassed Luffy only after joining BM, but not during the war. And what about Fisher Tiger, said to be the only one who wreaked havoc in Mariejoia and who attacked the CDs, just to receive a poor 230 M bounty?
As some guys already discussed above, until the time-skip they still made sense, as we were told how dangerous Robin was for the world with such a bounty, not to mention Dory and Brogy who frightened the whole world, whose 100 M is now trash.
I'm not an hater, just a rational person who's been reading manga since I was a child. When you wonder about Tamago's 429 M or Chinjao (over 500, when he was defeated with one punch by Garp) you just can't disagree with him, unless you are blind!

Dorry and Broggy were Pirates 100 years ago. If you consider inflation, they would have top tier bounties right now.
Chinjao has no bounty anymore as he was pardoned by the Kano King.
Tamago is a Big Mom Pirates elite veteran.
Luffy achieving only 100M for Marineford also makes sense considering the WG wanted to sell a total victory. A new 500+ dangerous pirate on the horizon is kinda against that.

 

[Fox666]

I'm not an hater, just a rational person who's been reading manga since I was a child. When you wonder about Tamago's 429 M or Chinjao (over 500, when he was defeated with one punch by Garp) you just can't disagree with him, unless you are blind!

Garp defeating a 500 million pirate in one punch isn't really a surprise.

While the author has only explained how a very few characters got bounties like that, the ones he did are reasonable: Ceasar Clown (300 million) and his experiments, Pedro (382 million) was a captain with the purpose of researching the Poneglyph.

 

[McNuss]

Now this is quite a bummer but the recent vivre card set has quite some inconsistencies. For example Sai and Orlumbus are listed with bounties of 210 and 148M respectively, even if they just became Pirates.
Now Orlumbus might have gotten his bounty for stealing the ships from his country, even if that sounds a little farfetched.
But Sai is impossible to have one as he is just attending Levely as a Kano Country servant. His grandfather has a former bounty.
Unless the Bounty is already post Levely and the Databook just jumped ahead.
It also blatantly slammed Haki on all CP9 agents except Nero and Spandam, but without properly clarifying whether that is meant to be Pre, or Postskip. If they are supposed to have it during Enies Lobby, it creates a lot of inconsistency. But if it is meant as postskip, then what is the purpose of it if everyone aside from Lucci and Kaku have left the story. Also Lucci having Haki is on both his Pre and postskip card.
Yoink! What the fuck....

 

[Deleted member 169696]

Also Lucci having Haki is on both his Pre and postskip card.
Yoink! What the fuck....

Really? Where can I find this info?

 

[KimCorrea]

Now this is quite a bummer but the recent vivre card set has quite some inconsistencies. For example Sai and Orlumbus are listed with bounties of 210 and 148M respectively, even if they just became Pirates.
Now Orlumbus might have gotten his bounty for stealing the ships from his country, even if that sounds a little farfetched.
But Sai is impossible to have one as he is just attending Levely as a Kano Country servant. His grandfather has a former bounty.
Unless the Bounty is already post Levely and the Databook just jumped ahead.
It also blatantly slammed Haki on all CP9 agents except Nero and Spandam, but without properly clarifying whether that is meant to be Pre, or Postskip. If they are supposed to have it during Enies Lobby, it creates a lot of inconsistency. But if it is meant as postskip, then what is the purpose of it if everyone aside from Lucci and Kaku have left the story. Also Lucci having Haki is on both his Pre and postskip card.
Yoink! What the fuck....

i think the databook just jumped ahead...
about the haki stuff related to cp9 why not? skypea fighters had it and the SH beat them pre TS anyway...
a lot of fighters had it before time skip it just was shown in subtle ways.

 

[McNuss]

Really? Where can I find this info?

It is on arlong Park and probably Oro Jackson already but I am on mobile so I can't copy and paste it (or rather I don't want to.)

i think the databook just jumped ahead...
about the haki stuff related to cp9 why not? skypea fighters had it and the SH beat them pre TS anyway...
a lot of fighters had it before time skip it just was shown in subtle ways.

The Sky Priests and Enel only had CoO and it was explicitly used as a plot element.
Now it wouldn't matter to much to reveal someone like Crocodile as a Haki user, since he mainly used his Logia and Hook against Luffy, slicing attacks where Haki is irrelevant against rubber.
But the CP9 used physical, unarmed attacks, and a lot of them were blunt moves. The difference between human Lucci's blunt Shigan and Leopard Lucci's clawed Shigan was highlighted though.
Also Haki is Armorpenetration, with Haki some random nobody like Pavlik can one shot a Pacifista, whereas the entire Straw Hat crew had to use all of their Strength, and that is despite Luffy defeating Crocodile, Lucci and Moriah who should be a lot stronger than Pavlik.
So with Haki Fukurou should have been able to greatly injure Franky rather than make him just use up his Cola....

 

[KimCorrea]

It is on arlong Park and probably Oro Jackson already but I am on mobile so I can't copy and paste it (or rather I don't want to.)

The Sky Priests and Enel only had CoO and it was explicitly used as a plot element.
Now it wouldn't matter to much to reveal someone like Crocodile as a Haki user, since he mainly used his Logia and Hook against Luffy, slicing attacks where Haki is irrelevant against rubber.
But the CP9 used physical, unarmed attacks, and a lot of them were blunt moves. The difference between human Lucci's blunt Shigan and Leopard Lucci's clawed Shigan was highlighted though.
Also Haki is Armorpenetration, with Haki some random nobody like Pavlik can one shot a Pacifista, whereas the entire Straw Hat crew had to use all of their Strength, and that is despite Luffy defeating Crocodile, Lucci and Moriah who should be a lot stronger than Pavlik.
So with Haki Fukurou should have been able to greatly injure Franky rather than make him just use up his Cola....

just because someone has haki it doesnt mean theyre strong.
and wrong thread for this discussion.

 

[Fox666]

Credits to Masasoite

New bounties:

Chinjao: 542 million
Cavendish: 330 million
Sai: 210 million
Bartolomeo: 200 million
Orlumbus: 148 million
Suleiman: 67 million
Kelly Funk: 57 million
Bobby Funk: 36 million

All CP9 members, except for Spandam and Nero, are confirmed to be Haki users. Note that these are pre-timeskip cards.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

All CP9 members, except for Spandam and Nero, are confirmed to be Haki users. Note that these are pre-timeskip cards.

Pre-skip timecards still detailing post-skip details? It means the information isn't limited to pre-skip meaning they likely only became Haki users after Water 7. Nothing they showcased pre-skip is similar to Armament Haki.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 4, 2019, Original Post Date: Jun 4, 2019 ---

Other thing is Bounty has almost nothing to do with strength, but crime. People are far too concerned with bounty. Could have a 0 bounty and still defeat someone with a much higher bounty. Bounty is mostly to do with crime and incidents, not with strength... this was even stated in the latest chapter.

 

[McNuss]

just because someone has haki it doesnt mean theyre strong.
and wrong thread for this discussion.

This is my Thread, actually.

It is about sharing content from the databooks, as well as discussing them. Anything goes as long as it is related to the Vivre Card Databook.

And I actually didn't make claims about anyone's strenght. I said them being Haki users Pre-Skip creates a lot of inconsistencies and highlighted two, which are Luffy and Franky which should have been affected by opponents that use CoA. Actually in Franky's case I just assumed that it should work based on the fact that it greatly affects the Pacifista to the point of their defense becoming redundant (or else would mean that Pavlik's gun is stronger than all of the Preskip Straw Hats combined), and with the revelation of Ryo, I deduced that armor penetration is a feature of Haki.