Match Weekly Match-up thread (Fuji vs Seda)

[Hardy]

ROUND IS OVER

Spoiler: Winner

Mares de Colón

34th Round:

We are back and with one Math's suggestions. Can Fuji stand a chance against Spain's troublemaker?

Picture	Fuji Hardy Jan 15, 2024	Seda Hardy May 13, 2024
Name	Fuji Shuusuke	Seda
Title	Genius	Troublemaker
Rank	No. 9 (MSer Year 3)	Spain Representative (MSer Year 1)
Height	167cm	-
Weight	53 kg	-
Dominant Hand	Right	Right (Ambidextrous?)
Playstyle	Counter puncher	-
Stat Total	18	?
Speed	3	?
Power	3	?
Stamina	3	?
Mental	4	?
Technique	5	?
Techniques / Styles	Phoenix Return (1st+) Kirin Drop (2nd+) White Dragon (3rd+) Dragonfly Illusion (4th) Gate Keeper of Hecatoncheires (5th) Star Fireworks (6th) Closed Eyes Hollyhock Blizzard Light Wind Kitsune Fireball	Reverse Copy Olympian Iris' Light

Fuji's 10.5 profile.

Fuji's 23.5 profile.

Fuji's Tenipuri Party profile.

Zeus' 23.5 profile

"I'm not listing Seda's hypnosis since he seemingly stopped using it and it can be countered with freaking ear plugs.

...tho, for all intents and purposes, he can play aggressively as he did against Japan."

Will add a poll on Wednesday.

 

[LetalHawk]

Ryoma did endure a shot from Ludovic that was basically SSS doubled, which imo, could be stronger than Duke’s Kijin?

I see Ryoma not being a total fool to get hit by it but even if he did I don’t see him just out of the match, but rather coming back and play around Duke’s power.

If he goes full power and doesn’t fool around Ryoma takes this yeah.

He does also have Glowing Drive B for attacking (the one he used vs Dodo), so maybe he can use the glowing properties to enhance the rest of his drives?

 

[Adamska]

SSS: no one has upper hand, if he can use it the other can. but in power scale, if Ryoma hited by one he might have died, Duke can bear a few.
TNK, since Dodo and Oni were able to counter it without any aura so Duke as #3 can do it too. (Vs MSers!)
Kijin: He acivate his kijin before Tokugawa who (finding it during his practice with Oni/Irie) activeate vs Boss then Shape it before Monster Volk.
Yet Duke has the upper hand, however I realized despite of times of use, all kijin are not the same, Tokugawa's might have better potential, that goes for Ryoma (one of the reason that he might have a chance Vs Ryoga). now it crosssed my mind that Ryoma might have lose his tennis Vs Ryoga but somehow his Samurai (like Boss's pirate) rise from the ashes and take back everything again.
So, at the moment I pick Duke, however Ryoma migh have wake his Kijin but he need to go in such a difficult situation.
Will Duke, put Ryoma to such condition in order to (weird) makes him stronger?
To be honset, this is the only upper hand that Ryoma might have get, however there are conditions.
Put all probablities aside: Duke got the upper hand.
He will eats Ryoma, Literally)
.... Still I believe we better wait for Ryoma to catch up with Ryoga, after that, we might have a winnter)
I wonder if Tokugawa shaped his Kijin Vs Duke? I mean make it stronger?
Cause last time, Duke's Kijin crushed Tokugawa's (god of thunder). but the potential behind...

 

[Ganonslayer101]

Power is Ryoma's biggest weakness and Duke's greatest strength. The key factor in determining this match since their roughly equal in stats otherwise. In a similar matchup vs Tanishi Kei, Ryoma had to wear his opponent down by forcing him to keep using his power until he exhausted himself. While Ryoma has likely improved considerably, his opponent is vastly stronger in this regard.

Ryoma's access to the SSS to return doesn’t matter since Duke hits it to and is likely more experienced in it. Also his larger power means he can likely return the 2x Multiplied shot more consistently than Ryoma can.

Ryoma also likes to challenge his opponents head on as seen when he faced Fuji both times, his jump battle with Dodo or when he challenged Sanada's other FuuRinKaZan. Also as seen when he fought Akutsu, he will charge the bet even if it's dangerous.

Plus Ryoma's best offense is played at the net which is the most dangerous spot on the court vs Duke. Even being Generous, Duke only needs 2 body shots to shut down Ryoma.

Ryoma's stats are hard to measure since his training in USA, but it's doubtful it's any more than 2 or 3 points which just helps make up the deficit his has against Duke.

Since Ryoma lacks a technique to effectively just avoid Duke, I think his best bet is to combine Ki Jin and Hyakuren to challenge Duke's power, though I don't know if he can do this. He might also be able to avoid him if his Ki Jin boosts technique but that's unknown and goes against Ryoma's usual playstyle. Also it's unlikely Ryoma's base technique is radically higher since he couldn't challenge Fuji's 3rd Critical Wind

I'm picking Duke as the winner based on current Ryoma. I do think Ryoma is G5 level, but he doesn't have to tools to take on duke consistently given what he's shown.

 

[Hardy]

Ryoma did endure a shot from Ludovic that was basically SSS doubled, which imo, could be stronger than Duke’s Kijin?

I see Ryoma not being a total fool to get hit by it but even if he did I don’t see him just out of the match, but rather coming back and play around Duke’s power.

If he goes full power and doesn’t fool around Ryoma takes this yeah.

He does also have Glowing Drive B for attacking (the one he used vs Dodo), so maybe he can use the glowing properties to enhance the rest of his drives?

I'm not sure. There's way too many things to consider... Byoudouin's Destruction and Ryoma's Hope equally damaging? Also, regardless of stats? How should we interpret Tokugawa facing Destruction and Duke's Ki Jin? Or Sieg being out of comission after one, despite the fact that general reps seem to have better raw stats and among them Sieg has remarkable endurance?

Ryoma's access to the SSS to return doesn’t matter since Duke hits it to and is likely more experienced in it. Also his larger power means he can likely return the 2x Multiplied shot more consistently than Ryoma can.

SSS: no one has upper hand, if he can use it the other can. but in power scale, if Ryoma hited by one he might have died, Duke can bear a few.
TNK, since Dodo and Oni were able to counter it without any aura so Duke as #3 can do it too. (Vs MSers!)

Well, Ryoma having access to it means he has an answer to Duke's homerun. Duke cannot use it exponentially based on Ryoma vs Ludovic, he'd need to do a stupid spin like Ryoma did.

Ryoma was playing around against Dodo, we cannot get anything out of that. Oni used both Ki Jin and later TnK against Kin's TnK.

Ryoma's stats are hard to measure since his training in USA, but it's doubtful it's any more than 2 or 3 points which just helps make up the deficit his has against Duke.

Tezuka in Day 6 of the camp (the camp itself started in November):

Total: 19
Speed: 3
Power: 3.5
Stamina: 3
Mental: 4.5
Technique: 5

Tezuka in 10.5 (Day 19, having trained with Volk for 2 weeks-ish, still November):

Total: 23.5 (+4.5)
Speed: 4.5
Power: 4
Stamina: 4
Mental: 5
Technique: 6

And now we are in late December. Worst case scenario approximately 4 weeks have passed. Plenty of time for Ryoma to get 4 or more points.

Kijin: He acivate his kijin before Tokugawa who (finding it during his practice with Oni/Irie) activeate vs Boss then Shape it before Monster Volk.
Yet Duke has the upper hand, however I realized despite of times of use, all kijin are not the same, Tokugawa's might have better potential, that goes for Ryoma (one of the reason that he might have a chance Vs Ryoga). now it crosssed my mind that Ryoma might have lose his tennis Vs Ryoga but somehow his Samurai (like Boss's pirate) rise from the ashes and take back everything again.

They seemingly all buff a different stat:

Pirate: Mental
Oni: Power
Destruction God: Power?
Samurai: Technique? Speed?
Knight: Speed? Technique?
Upgraded Asura: Mental?

Tokugawa was caught off guard and Duke punished that. After that, for some points, he had no answer for such an overwhelming Power, yeah.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Current Ryoma barely won against Ludovic. And based on practice matches and statements in his USA stint. I think Ralph, Kiko, and Dodo are all stronger than him. Lol. But maybe those 3 Americans are G5 level too. Who knows. (I mean Ralph fot sure)

However, for Direct Comparison.

It is literally a matter if ever Duke can One shot Ryoma using his power and force him to retire.

I will play devils advocate. And Will side with Duke here just cause of Strength Matchup advantage.

 

[Ganonslayer101]

I'm not sure. There's way too many things to consider... Byoudouin's Destruction and Ryoma's Hope equally damaging? Also, regardless of stats? How should we interpret Tokugawa facing Destruction and Duke's Ki Jin? Or Sieg being out of comission after one, despite the fact that general reps seem to have better raw stats and among them Sieg has remarkable endurance?

Well, Ryoma having access to it means he has an answer to Duke's homerun. Duke cannot use it exponentially based on Ryoma vs Ludovic, he'd need to do a stupid spin like Ryoma did.

Ryoma was playing around against Dodo, we cannot get anything out of that. Oni used both Ki Jin and later TnK against Kin's TnK.




Tezuka in Day 6 of the camp (the camp itself started in November):

Total: 19
Speed: 3
Power: 3.5
Stamina: 3
Mental: 4.5
Technique: 5

Tezuka in 10.5 (Day 19, having trained with Volk for 2 weeks-ish, still December):

Total: 23.5 (+4.5)
Speed: 4.5
Power: 4
Stamina: 4
Mental: 5
Technique: 6

And now we are in late December. Worst case scenario approximately 4 weeks have passed. Plenty of time for Ryoma to get 4 or more points.

They seemingly all buff a different stat:

Pirate: Mental
Oni: Power
Destruction God: Power?
Samurai: Technique? Speed?
Knight: Speed? Technique?
Upgraded Asura: Mental?

Tokugawa was caught off guard and Duke punished that. After that, for some points, he had no answer for such an overwhelming Power, yeah.

Ryoma needing his crazy spin is arguably because he's weak, he had use the power against itself to return. And the first time he tried he got bodied. Also we don't know that Homerun has the same kind of property as Hope or Destruction.

We don't know that Oni can stack them. We have yet to see both active simultaneously. We know he activated Ki Jin, and then used TnK. We don't have an image of both at once. Also Ki Jin is connected to the "life on the line" Interdimensional moves while Ryoma's TnK is about having fun and getting lost in the joy of the game. They likely aren't compatible.

Tezuka got those points in the Sport Science country and we actively see him train. Ryoma does not have those advantages. And even then, 4 points still don't make up the deficit in stats.

The problem with the Ki Jin is we don't know what stat Ryoma is buffing. If it buffs Technique he has a shot, if it's power than it's useless. We don't know and we don't get a clear picture of Ryoma's improvement since the match is replaced with a fight scene when he triggered it vs Ludovic.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Guys

Duke was able to have a neck and neck match against Tokugawa. (It is literally 7-6)

And Tokugawa is probably the Second Strongest Player in japan right now behind Byodoin.

I don't think Current Ryoma have any chance against Current Tokugawa (assuming No mid fight evolution)
I don't think he will be able kept it as closed as Duke did.

So by that Transitive Variance Indirect Comparison.

Toku> Duke > Ryoma imo. Hahahha

Again, I am playing devils advocate here.

 

[Hardy]

Ryoma needing his crazy spin is arguably because he's weak, he had use the power against itself to return. And the first time he tried he got bodied. Also we don't know that Homerun has the same kind of property as Hope or Destruction.

We don't know that Oni can stack them. We have yet to see both active simultaneously. We know he activated Ki Jin, and then used TnK. We don't have an image of both at once. Also Ki Jin is connected to the "life on the line" Interdimensional moves while Ryoma's TnK is about having fun and getting lost in the joy of the game. They likely aren't compatible.

Tezuka got those points in the Sport Science country and we actively see him train. Ryoma does not have those advantages. And even then, 4 points still don't make up the deficit in stats.

The problem with the Ki Jin is we don't know what stat Ryoma is buffing. If it buffs Technique he has a shot, if it's power than it's useless. We don't know and we don't get a clear picture of Ryoma's improvement since the match is replaced with a fight scene when he triggered it vs Ludovic.

There is nothing indicating he had to do the spin because he was weak. Ludovic says Ryoma "got something beyond the SSS". If I were to guess, what Ryoma did was dispersing the strength of the shot (into himself?) as someone avoiding breaking ice by not putting all their weight into a single spot.

Ludovic in turn returns the shot using 2 rackets. Nothing about Power.

I didn't say Oni stacked auras vs Kin, but rather that he did need something to face TnK Kin (either aura).

Atobe got 5 points in the same period as Tezuka, playing in Japan. It's not just Tezuka. With just 1 point in each of Speed and Stamina Ryoma will be leveled to Duke in both stats. Any other improvement (other than Power) makes him better than Duke in any category, and this is before he even activates TnK that in theory boosts all stats.

If Ryoma had a 10 in Power then any sort of advantage Duke has is out of the picture, though? I'd think the Ki Jins buff the strongest stat of a player, though.

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 24, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 24, 2023 ---

Guys

Duke was able to have a neck and neck match against Tokugawa. (It is literally 7-6)

And Tokugawa is probably the Second Strongest Player in japan right now behind Byodoin.

I don't think Current Ryoma have any chance against Current Tokugawa (assuming No mid fight evolution)
I don't think he will be able kept it as closed as Duke did.

So by that Transitive Variance Indirect Comparison.

Toku> Duke > Ryoma imo. Hahahha

Again, I am playing devils advocate here.

Tokugawa won 7-5. We didn't see Duke win any point after Tokugawa's final development, so the comparison doesn't really track. Duke seemingly didn't stand a chance either.

 

[Adamska]

I'm sure Tokugwa is stronger than Duke.
And Konomi-San skipped their match, probably for the case of final match, which he might goes all out vs Duke. like Ochi/Mouri's howling.
yet need to be consider: Black Hole, limited in 30 min and he was using it in the whole set. Imagine if there was 3 sets.
Anyway the match shows, how Strong Duke is, Duke bunt was a good example of it, and the way he returned it was like he did Vs Volk's.
So in case of Power, Duke is smart guy, and experienced comparing to big bang guy.
And this is not a match, that Ryoma face him head on, though he is type of guy who aim most strongest opponents technique.
Duke is stronger than Ryoma. Again it was better to compare them after his match vs Ryoga.

 

[-Ken-]

Current Ryoma barely won against Ludovic. And based on practice matches and statements in his USA stint. I think Ralph, Kiko, and Dodo are all stronger than him. Lol. But maybe those 3 Americans are G5 level too. Who knows. (I mean Ralph fot sure)

However, for Direct Comparison.

It is literally a matter if ever Duke can One shot Ryoma using his power and force him to retire.

I will play devils advocate. And Will side with Duke here just cause of Strength Matchup advantage.

Actually, because of France rank, I would say Ludovic HAVE to be pretty strong and might be underestimated by a lot of people here unless they have a lot of G10 level on reserve against Japan.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Actually, because of France rank, I would say Ludovic HAVE to be pretty strong and might be underestimated by a lot of people here unless they have a lot of G10 level on reserve against Japan.

Thinking about Circumstances. It is actually possible ken.

We should note that whoever wins against Japan VS France would have faced Germany.

So Both teams might reserved their players for Semis. And it is Very true for Japan. Only Duke is a Quality Hser they sent in the Quarterfinals.

They reserved Byodoin, Tane, Oni, Toku for Semis and Finals.

It's not crazy to think France did the same.

We always assume that if Japan played against a country. That country used their 7 strongest players.

Which is not the case everytime. Cause in Switzerland match. The Swiss literally didn't use their second best player in Tatsuta. And Japan still lost.

Having said that. Yes Ludovic is strong. But I seriously doubt he is Genius 5 level. I dont think he can beat any of G5. I am not sure he can surely win against TNK Irie

 

[Hardy]

Poll is up!

Thinking about Circumstances. It is actually possible ken.

We should note that whoever wins against Japan VS France would have faced Germany.

So Both teams might reserved their players for Semis. And it is Very true for Japan. Only Duke is a Quality Hser they sent in the Quarterfinals.

They reserved Byodoin, Tane, Oni, Toku for Semis and Finals.

It's not crazy to think France did the same.

We always assume that if Japan played against a country. That country used their 7 strongest players.

Which is not the case everytime. Cause in Switzerland match. The Swiss literally didn't use their second best player in Tatsuta. And Japan still lost.

Having said that. Yes Ludovic is strong. But I seriously doubt he is Genius 5 level. I dont think he can beat any of G5. I am not sure he can surely win against TNK Irie

I don't think so. The only team that likely saved players vs Japan is Greece (Zeus' siblings; threw D1). The rest are very slight rotations (Germany changing 1 MSer between rounds, Kuraraga in Switzerland). Japan in theory saved players because they are idiots that kill themselves when they play (which is seemingly unique in the world) and we actually got to see that: after the Group League they needed 4 reserves, after Germany Japan lost 4 players and Yukimura cannot focus as much as he did vs Tezuka.

Ludovic is very strong indeed, but he has less tools than Ryoma. Granted, it would had been nice to see the latter use more TnK when they matched up...

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 25, 2023 ---

Kinda funny, thinking about it. There's that complaint about that match and, vs Fuji, Ryoma also never used any Glowing shot nor his Samurai (not even Samurai Drive IIRC). I wonder if Konomi thought it would make the moves look weak if the opponent returned them easily.

 

[LetalHawk]

Poll is up!



I don't think so. The only team that likely saved players vs Japan is Greece (Zeus' siblings; threw D1). The rest are very slight rotations (Germany changing 1 MSer between rounds, Kuraraga in Switzerland). Japan in theory saved players because they are idiots that kill themselves when they play (which is seemingly unique in the world) and we actually got to see that: after the Group League they needed 4 reserves, after Germany Japan lost 4 players and Yukimura cannot focus as much as he did vs Tezuka.

Ludovic is very strong indeed, but he has less tools than Ryoma. Granted, it would had been nice to see the latter use more TnK when they matched up...

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 25, 2023 ---

Kinda funny, thinking about it. There's that complaint about that match and, vs Fuji, Ryoma also never used any Glowing shot nor his Samurai (not even Samurai Drive IIRC). I wonder if Konomi thought it would make the moves look weak if the opponent returned them easily.

I think he didn’t use them because he didn’t need them to defeat Fuji. He was just focused and aimed to return all of Fuji’s counters, and after that he won back two games and won the tiebreak.

Ryoma using them would’ve been overkill maybe, that’s why Konomi didn’t make Ryoma use any of his trump cards aside from TnK and Hope.

 

[Hardy]

I think he didn’t use them because he didn’t need them to defeat Fuji. He was just focused and aimed to return all of Fuji’s counters, and after that he won back two games and won the tiebreak.

Ryoma using them would’ve been overkill maybe, that’s why Konomi didn’t make Ryoma use any of his trump cards aside from TnK and Hope.

If he didn't need them then his desperation in the final point doesn't make any sort of sense. In my opinion he went all out, but the other stuff was dealt with off screen (also he might have sealed the glowing stuff temporarily after being sent to the doctor).

 

[LetalHawk]

If he didn't need them then his desperation in the final point doesn't make any sort of sense. In my opinion he went all out, but the other stuff was dealt with off screen (also he might have sealed the glowing stuff temporarily after being sent to the doctor).

So he used Samurai?

 

[Hardy]

So he used Samurai?

Maybe? Or maybe he cannot use it willingly and it only activates on a pinch.

I need to check that match again but he didn't even show the Samurai Drive at all, did he?

 

[LetalHawk]

Maybe? Or maybe he cannot use it willingly and it only activates on a pinch.

I need to check that match again but he didn't even show the Samurai Drive at all, did he?

Nope, he didn’t use it since Npot started.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Poll is up!


I don't think so. The only team that likely saved players vs Japan is Greece (Zeus' siblings; threw D1). The rest are very slight rotations (Germany changing 1 MSer between rounds, Kuraraga in Switzerland). Japan in theory saved players because they are idiots that kill themselves when they play (which is seemingly unique in the world) and we actually got to see that: after the Group League they needed 4 reserves, after Germany Japan lost 4 players and Yukimura cannot focus as much as he did vs Tezuka.

Ludovic is very strong indeed, but he has less tools than Ryoma. Granted, it would had been nice to see the latter use more TnK when they matched up...

--- Double Post Merged, Oct 25, 2023, Original Post Date: Oct 25, 2023 ---

Kinda funny, thinking about it. There's that complaint about that match and, vs Fuji, Ryoma also never used any Glowing shot nor his Samurai (not even Samurai Drive IIRC). I wonder if Konomi thought it would make the moves look weak if the opponent returned them easily.

Nope, he didn’t use it since Npot started.

Back in his USA Team Stint

In Pre Selection American Tournament

He used it against Rocky. That's the last time.

He didn't used it against Dodo though. He always used Drive B against Dodo Jumping ability.

And since then, we never saw it.

-----
Probably Ryoma used Samurai against Tokugawa back in Japan Training Camp too. But as we all know. Toku is like what? 3 tiers above Ryoma at that point? Lmao.

 

[Adamska]

I think he didn’t use them because he didn’t need them to defeat Fuji. He was just focused and aimed to return all of Fuji’s counters, and after that he won back two games and won the tiebreak.

Ryoma using them would’ve been overkill maybe, that’s why Konomi didn’t make Ryoma use any of his trump cards aside from TnK and Hope.

I think it was Kaoz who brought this up.
Ryoma didn't use his TNK vs Ludovic.
Wonder why!
Didn't found that post, but the idea was it was Ludovic who made him unable to use it.
How? Find the post.
Vs Fuji?
He used hope, but Fuji uses net trick which made ball ended up in Ryoma's court.
However it could put a hole on web?
But maybe because of technique that Fuji used it's kinda has some kinda effect to decrease it.
Though Ryoma could have use it as serve too.
So If you can avoid hope to become unaffected then it is possible to prevent TNK right of the bat.
However two game skipped just like Tokugawa and others. Which I think something happened off screen that we might have seen it in finals.

Vs Fuji and Ludovic.
Ryoma uses two different style.
Kijin and TNK as a along his base and hope as a big advantage then drive b.

Whatever Konomi-San must fill this things up.
So I said it again after Ryoma defeating Ryoga I put him above Duke. But he must win. No alternative for Prince allowed.

 

[mathematicianrcg]

Ryoma will really jump from a player who cannot beat Kiko to a player that can beat Ryoga. Lmao.

That is like jumping 3 tiers above lmao
------
Right now imo:

Tier 1: Ryoga, Medanore, Volk, Byodoin, Tokugawa

Tier 2: Ralph, Amadeus, QP

Tier 3: Oni, Tanegashima, Duke, Bismarck, Tezuka, Romeo, Atobe

Tier 4: Ryoma, Kintarou, Fuji, Yukimura

But yeah. Current Ryoma I think is Tier 4, arguably Tier 3.

But imo. Duke kijin and power can overpower Ryoma right now.