Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011 - 2012] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[OPN]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

if fist of the north star was published today it probably would be ranking poorly since the kids that read jump wouldnt get it or think its too gross and it would end up being eventually axed due to its ranking unless volume sells are high which would be likely. i never read or seen otoko so no comment on that one.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Do you remember how dark the beginning of Yu-Gi-Oh! was?Now it's a kiddies show.I don't know if you read Bakuman,but I agree with Fukuda.JUMP got too soft,it needs some gritty action series with sweat,blood and guts.

Then, tell me which violent and bloody seinen manga (like Gantz and Berserk) do youn think that can be serialized in shonen magazine (like Jump, Magzine, and Sunday)?

 

[Googlez_kun]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Then, tell me which violent and bloody seinen manga (like Gantz and Berserk) do youn think that can be serialized in shonen magazine (like Jump, Magzine, and Sunday)?

Gantz and Berserk are a bit extreme.It seems I exeggerated a bit,but what I mean is that Shonen are way too soft nowadays.I'll use Yu-Gi-Oh! as an example again.In one of the first chapters,Yugi roasted a man alive because Anzu was in danger.He drove several persons into insanity because they screwed with him.That was badass and something like this is currently missing in Shonen Jump.
New series don't seem to have the guts to go this far,even though that's what might attract older readers or what they are waiting for.Instead they try to come up with clicheé shonen manga for kiddies,which we see fail again and again.

 

[Divinenega]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Gantz and Berserk are a bit extreme.It seems I exeggerated a bit,but what I mean is that Shonen are way too soft nowadays.I'll use Yu-Gi-Oh! as an example again.In one of the first chapters,Yugi roasted a man alive because Anzu was in danger.He drove several persons into insanity because they screwed with him.That was badass and something like this is currently missing in Shonen Jump.
New series don't seem to have the guts to go this far,even though that's what might attract older readers or what they are waiting for.Instead they try to come up with clicheé shonen manga for kiddies,which we see fail again and again.

To be completely fair, there haven;t been any straight up attempts at a battle manga for quite a while so the lack of violence is kind of expected.

 

[shezar]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

So you guys want mindless violence?
Shonen have their target group ,nowadays i only see people interested in violence like lack of it its bad thing on movie,series etc.It seems they need violence/death to satisfy themselves or use it as reason to like something that is target for young people.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

I'll use Yu-Gi-Oh! as an example again.In one of the first chapters,Yugi roasted a man alive because Anzu was in danger.He drove several persons into insanity because they screwed with him.That was badass and something like this is currently missing in Shonen Jump.

I don't think that's a good example. It didn't show any part of a man's skin has gotten burned down, plus the picture is small so I think he most likely just his cloth got burned. Plus, Yu-Gi-Oh is not a good example for violent and bloody manga; it did started pretty dark but there aren't any blood and violence.

I think you should bring more better example that is from recent time like five years before this year, not 80s or 90s because they are too old to be compared on present time.

 

[Googlez_kun]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

So you guys want mindless violence?
Shonen have their target group ,nowadays i only see people interested in violence like lack of it its bad thing on movie,series etc.It seems they need violence/death to satisfy themselves or use it as reason to like something that is target for young people.

I know what you're getting at,however,I am against the thought that violence in Shonen manga is something bad.If it's correctly dealt with,it does more good than harm.Same goes for nudity.Nowadays,it's extremely abused and is a huge part of a social problem in Japan.People like Osamu Tezuka on the other hand,knew how to keep a right balance and were able to introduce kids to partially difficult or new aspects of life like this.Either way you slice it,violence is part of our life,which is why kids need to know that side too.Of course,mindless violence like in certain manga(I'm looking at you Gantz) is completely inappropriate for children,but when used correctly,it will prepare them for the future and clear them up.

---------- Post added at 10:21 PM ---------- Previous post was at 10:02 PM ----------

I don't think that's a good example. It didn't show any part of a man's skin has gotten burned down, plus the picture is small so I think he most likely just his cloth got burned. Plus, Yu-Gi-Oh is not a good example for violent and bloody manga; it did started pretty dark but there aren't any blood and violence.

I think you should bring more better example that is from recent time like five years before this year, not 80s or 90s because they are too old to be compared on present time.

Guess I need to refresh my memory.But I remember how he he screwed someones eyes,so that he saw everything in pixels.And another guy went nuts as well,because his heart was punding to the beat of a rock song.You are right,it did not have any blood and gore,but it was pretty dark.

I think a good example would be Bobobo.I want an in-your-face manga like this in the current line-up.Gintama kind of comes close,but it's still not the same.
As for a bloody jump series from the last ten years?...Can't think of one.

 

[perroloco]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

@Negative Syndicate:
You don't seem to understand, is precisely the fact that there isn't a recent example in JUMP with that much blood that I think it could test waters to see how that kind of manga would fare.
The most untamed manga in JUMP right now would be HXH IMO..

As for HnK and Otokojuku in 2011.... I think they would be parodied as hell on the internet.. And not moe-enough lol

I am not saying it needs to be gory.. and violent.. More like a full of gutsy manga, like Saint Seiya, I can't really describe it.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Maybe you guys should specifically describe the level of blood and violence that you want. You said only HxH is bloody and violence, but One Piece and Toriko also pretty bloody and violent too on its battle scene. So, do you guys want really gore that all of guts came out from stomach or just many bloods come out during the battle scene.

 

[Nii]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Of course,but one or two series with lots of blood and violence wouldn't hurt.I mean,I'm seventeen and I'd like to read a Shonen that is darker and all,but still Shonen.
Currently,the darkest JUMP series I can think of would be HxH.

Dunno if you read it but I thought Mago's latest arc is pretty dark and bloody. Aside from that I wouldn't mind some more dark toned series but it seems unlikely, the past decade was more or less dominated by rather "soft" series. I could only imagina a slight change over the years but that's up in the air.

 

[Drmke]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Mago is quite dark at times, especially the current arc. People being slaughtered in the streets by horrific looking demons seems dark to me, but of course, the series is also currently ranking poorly. Jump will probably allow darker series occasionally but they tend to rank poorly in today's Jump.

 

[perroloco]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

@Negative:
You know, I don't read TORIKO but it does look like an 80s manga (Art-style wise, Toriko looks all musculous and stuff, don't know about story), probably JUMP already tested waters with that.

And.. Its not about the gore per see, its not about the blood shown either..

I can't put it on words, I mean BLOOD is an important aspect in the type of manga I am describing JUMP should try again (Because as I said it has already had tons of these in the 80s).. Mmm..

Like a manga of manly man characters. I guess that would be the best way to describe it.

The worst thing is.. This title would probably be a favorite of fujoshis.. LOL

A good way to put it would be following Masami Kurumada's manga philosphy:

Masami Kurumada (車田 正美 Kurumada Masami?, born December 6, 1953) is a Japanese manga artist and writer, known for specializing in fighting manga featuring bishōnen and/or mahō shōnen. He is famous as the creator/author of popular manga, such as Ring ni Kakero, Fūma no Kojirō, Saint Seiya and B't X. His male protagonists are a reflection of the classical and modern society's archetype of the true men. The male characters in his works often display very masculine qualities and traits, and pursue to achieve courage and manhood perfection through sacrifice, selflessness and true heroism. He has won the best success award with Saint Seiya and the best inspiration award with Ring ni Kakero.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

@Negative:
You know, I don't read TORIKO but it does look like an 80s manga (Art-style wise, Toriko looks all musculous and stuff, don't know about story), probably JUMP already tested waters with that.

And.. Its not about the gore per see, its not about the blood shown either..

I can't put it on words, I mean BLOOD is an important aspect in the type of manga I am describing JUMP should try again (Because as I said it has already had tons of these in the 80s).. Mmm..

Like a manga of manly man characters. I guess that would be the best way to describe it.

I think you should Shonen Champion than Shonen Jump. It sounds like Shonen Champion is more type for you.

 

[Jaymie]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Dark doesn't do well in Jump any more... plain and simple. Every dark series these past few years has been canceled.

As for manly men, that trend is extremely retro nowadays. Manga goes through trends too, you know.

 

[Rejuvenation]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Toriko is probably the closest manga that resembles the 80s style brutality but still manages to be successful. It offsets that by having its lighter adventures though. I don't think the current climate of Jump is going to allow the pendulum to swing back that way completely. Hunter x Hunter is still probably the "darkest" out of all these and if you consider it started in the 90s and Togashi is from a separate era that isn't too surprising.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Dark series are difficult to succeed in Shonen Jump. In order for a dark series to be successful by shonen magazine in Shueisha, then it should be released on Jump SQ; Jump SQ has three dark series that is doing good (Claymore, Ao no Exorcist, and D.Gray-man).

 

[Ikzer]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

I think what perroloco wants to say It's that violence and battles and that kind of stuff doesn't need to be explicit. I mean, with a non-gore level, like in the current battle mangas (Naruto, Bleach, OP) but with more darker approaches. Of course you can't publish a Hokuto no Ken or Jojo today in SJ, that would be almost like publishing Berserk, but perhaps some bolder series, focused on the target, but not so happyly-smiley-familyfriendly like the last... 4-5 years.
The best example of this is enigma: the only one survivor of 2010 (full of stuff like Omagadoki, Metallica... friendly series) was a darker series. The problem with enigma wasn't the initial plot, but that the author couldn't mantain a good level. The series style, approach, setting, was good, and was really well received. But it fall later, initially people's reaction was good.
Another good example: Death Note. One of the biggest success in the last decade, it wasn't family-friendly precisely.
People is actually looking for that kind of stuff, but lately there aren't good artists who can do It.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Another good example: Death Note. One of the biggest success in the last decade, it wasn't family-friendly precisely.
People is actually looking for that kind of stuff, but lately there aren't good artists who can do It.

I think Death Note is only good example for a successful dark series in Shonen Jump. In order for a dark series to survive in Shonen Jump, it has to be someting very original and very shocking.

 

[perroloco]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

@Negative Syndicate:
I like it but sadly Edited Manga teams tend not to pick many titles.. As well as licensors.. :*(

As for Death Note, yeah it definetly is Dark. Maybe JUMP should make a competition for dark series lol.

 

[Negative Syndicate]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

As for Death Note, yeah it definetly is Dark. Maybe JUMP should make a competition for dark series lol.

I'm not sure, I think a dark series isn't really a popular genre for Shonen Jump. I think older audience like dark series more than teenagers; that's why many dark series are serialized in seinen magazines.