Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Riku]

Again, try to search for some other non-Wikipedia articles explaining what a plot hole is, instead of being so stubborn about your own assumed set of definition.

Now I am offended, because I study film&tv in uni, and I do take pride in my knowledge. Of course all terms are bit subjective, but in my honest opinion your definition of the term plot hole is very different from it's general take.

If you demand me to look for and present sources supporting my view, you'd better start linking sources that support yours. If you google for plot hole and look different examples, pretty much non of them is unfinnished plotline. They are just things that don't make sense.

If the story ended before Hancock (or the other 3 "powerful rivals" drawn on the WSJ cover that has yet to make an appearance) was introduced, is it not a plot hole then? Who the hell are these guys? Where did they go? So on and so forth.

That, is a plot hole.

No, that is not a plot hole. It would have been just non explained plot element - this time non-properly introduced character. There is nothing that doesn't make logical sense in that. Sure it would be silly to show a character and then not actually have her in the story, but it doesn't defy any form of logic set by the story previously.

And yes, if OP had been axed some of unexplained things would have become plot holes, just as I tried to demonstrate with Aces parentage case. But your initial claim was that every open ended plotline or unexplained detail would have been a plot hole is not right.

 

[come come paradise]

Wow. I guess this proves once again that Oda is God, OP is holy, and every little comment about it that isn't incensing enough is blasphemy. ^^" I must say I agree with Finestela here, but don't lynch me guys


Back on topic (or not), I just realized that Sasaki tweeted himself that preview pic of that infamous 20-21 cover :P Guess it kind of is serious business.

Speaking of Sasaki's twitter, anyone wants to speculate on why Jump is trying to reach an English audience? Is it Edited Manga-related? I'm not so sure. I also checked out the first chapters available in English on their website but quality isn't what I would call good, I think I'll stick to Edited Mangas for try-outs :/

 

[Riku]

Wow. I guess this proves once again that Oda is God, OP is holy, and every little comment about it that isn't incensing enough is blasphemy. ^^" I must say I agree with Finestela here, but don't lynch me guys
/

I lynch you. Because what I said had nothing to do with OP being godlike. Just the definition of the term plot hole. One Piece does have plot holes. Like for example with the current arc, Arlongs status among the Sun Pirates seems absurdly big for someone who by current OP stantards is very weak as his powers were depicted in the early part of OP. That's very suspecable inconsistency in power levels.

 

[Estranho]

Wow. I guess this proves once again that Oda is God, OP is holy, and every little comment about it that isn't incensing enough is blasphemy. ^^" I must say I agree with Finestela here, but don't lynch me guys

I just don't know where you get that from, and seems like you just wanted a moment to attack iinvisibles "One Piece's crazy fans".

Except by the examples, this discussion was never about One Piece being bad or good. It's about the meaning of the term "plot hole". Nothing more than that.

 

[Asarii]

Debating about the definition of a plot hole is unrelated to the thread so please take the conversation to PM if you wish to continue. Any other posts afterwards will be deleted. Please don't call each other names as well. Thank you.

I have no idea which series are and aren't ranked so the TOC is a bit confusing right now. LOL Not happy to see Enigma, Reborn and Mago low; happy with Bakuman, Beelzebub and SKET's positions.

Damn, Hokenshitsu is really hanging on. It's been in the bottom for months.

 

[Finestela]

Back on topic (or not), I just realized that Sasaki tweeted himself that preview pic of that infamous 20-21 cover :P Guess it kind of is serious business.

Speaking of Sasaki's twitter, anyone wants to speculate on why Jump is trying to reach an English audience? Is it Edited Manga-related? I'm not so sure. I also checked out the first chapters available in English on their website but quality isn't what I would call good, I think I'll stick to Edited Mangas for try-outs :/

Obviously, there's something changing over there at Shueisha... It might be department specific, or it might be an overall thing.

I have noticed that the various twitter accounts there actually have people (or can get people) to answer questions in English. I mean I personally asked @miracle_jump something the other day, and I asked it in English (on purpose, yes), and got an English reply (though not completely perfect, but good enough).

While I doubt it's the chief editor personally tweeting with that account, but, rather, someone ghost-tweeting (lol, is this a word? :P) for him, it's nonetheless interesting to see them doing that.

 

[Newkerzy]

Y'know, it could be that the Nanamine arc in Bakuman somewhat had a connection to it. I'm betting Ohba and Obata had quite a long-ass debate about it with Sasaki so Sasaki could try to reach out to English-speaking audiences.

Perhaps the Nanamine arc was sort of a publicity stunt to show what was going on in behind the scenes.

 

[Kubukurin]

How many pages for chapters has Grim? Its first rank is very high, but imho if it's a gag manga with few pages, like Jaguar or Inumaru it does not count much.

 

[Westlo]

This Bleach got kicked out of the top 3 talk from a few pages back is rather silly, Toriko got the front row because they're trying to push that very hard atm with the anime out. Now when the Toriko anime gets canned in half a years time because of the crappy ratings and the Bleach manga tanks still double the sales of Toriko we'll see who gets the Big 3 shots (not a bleach fan at all)

 

[ZayCon]

This Bleach got kicked out of the top 3 talk from a few pages back is rather silly, Toriko got the front row because they're trying to push that very hard atm with the anime out. Now when the Toriko anime gets canned in half a years time because of the crappy ratings and the Bleach manga tanks still double the sales of Toriko we'll see who gets the Big 3 shots (not a bleach fan at all)

Do you really think that's how is gonna be? Personally I think that the Toriko hype will continue, and that it eventually will become a huge hit. Proably not as big as One Piece or Naruto, but I think it will reach Bleach's level, of course not for a few years though.

Bleach will probably continue to live on it's fans that can't admit that anything related to Bleach is crappy - and there's quite a few of them I think. But I also think that Bleach will fall a little in the TOC compared to before. That is if Kubo doesn't go up a notch, and give us 100 % of what he really can do. Cause I don't think he have done that in a while.

I probably sound like a Bleach hater now, but I actually really like Bleach, just not everything.

 

[Westlo]

Do you really think that's how is gonna be? Personally I think that the Toriko hype will continue, and that it eventually will become a huge hit.

Ep 1 = 9.4% (crossover with One Piece)
Ep 2 = 7.9% (while OP did 9.7% right after)
Ep 3 = 6.7% (while OP did 10.2% right after)

OP was doing like 12-11% in the final weeks of DBZ Kai which itself was doing 10-8%. I assure you if Toriko keeps doing 6-7% it will get canned or moved to a worse time slot, especially if it's affecting OP's ratings as a bad lead in.

 

[Galactic Tomahawk]

Expecting Toriko to rank as high as One Piece/Dragonball from the start is a bit much, if it gains popularity it's at least gonna take a bit of time.

 

[Asarii]

My two cents: Toriko does have a bright future, but I don't think it will reach the tier of Dragonball or ONE PIECE. It's been serialized for three years old and that's still quite young IMO. If we're talking about its long-term popularity, I think we should wait a while.

 

[Zeltrax]

I think the same too, there is still something lacking in toriko for me that one piece, naruto and bleach has.
I think toriko still needs some time for it to be up there and it has to be consistent too any terrible slip-up might cause its popularity to plummet.

 

[Goty]

Ep 1 = 9.4% (crossover with One Piece)
Ep 2 = 7.9% (while OP did 9.7% right after)
Ep 3 = 6.7% (while OP did 10.2% right after)

OP was doing like 12-11% in the final weeks of DBZ Kai which itself was doing 10-8%. I assure you if Toriko keeps doing 6-7% it will get canned or moved to a worse time slot, especially if it's affecting OP's ratings as a bad lead in.

Funny thing though, i don't even remember the last time Bleach scored a 6.7...if ever.

 

[Asgaroth]

i think that torikos art style is more suited for a seinen story. this detailed hair/muscular sturctures and this whole salvia thing looks most of the time disgusting. even torikos aim is to weak compared to naruto (loved by everyone), onepiece (great adventure, and so on =) ).

to put it in a nutshell, toriko will never be as popular as bleach. probably it will set between 300-400k, even with the anime airing.

 

[kewl0210]

Yeah, I think Toriko has the possibility to get a lot more popular and I think it's a great manga. But just like a lot, they only get really big once they've expanded a lot and gone on for a long time and had a long running anime to those "Bleach" "One Piece", "Gintama" levels.

Keep in mind, at chapter 137, where Toriko is now, One Piece hadn't even started Arabasta yet, I think that was the beginning of Drum Island. People sometimes talk about the best part of One Piece being how expansive the world is. But it took FOREVER for it to develop that much.
Bleach was somewhere in the middle of the Soul Society Arc and Naruto was in... I think the first big war arc, whatever that's called.

It sometimes also has to do just with how people are exposed to it. Like I said, some people don't read it because they don't like the art style or something. I remember people used to say that about the beginning of One Piece, too.

 

[Finestela]

Funny thing though, i don't even remember the last time Bleach scored a 6.7...if ever.

It's called "trend".
And, also, established timeslot.

 

[k-dom]

I may be wrong but I find Toriko pace much more higher than the other 3 in question. Especially after kewl0210 comment.

Spoiler

his menu is quite well advanced, especially if the cola becomes the drink, komatsu has found his real place in the tandem, we know already the main antagonists, about the eclipse...

So in term of devlopment Toriko is already pretty much mature

 

[perroloco]

I don't think TORIKO will be the new ONE PIECE, sure it will be part of the Big 3, likely replacing BLEACH which has been (IMHO) boring and heck.. I can even see NARUTO ending soon, I mean soon like in maximum 5 years unless Kishimoto puts a BLEACH on us.
I mean sure, TORIKO seems like a nice story, but ONE PIECE was ranked high since its very beginning, I don't know about volumes sold but its TOC ranking was high always, whilst TORIKO has struggled to keep in top 5.
Also I think whether a manga triumphs or not has a lot to do with how the series are marketed, i.e. ONE PIECE just came in the right moment, WSJ known for using new authors (Well, at least that used to be WSJ motto, I don't see many newbie mangakas doing quite as well nowadays) had to pimp a series (ONE PIECE) in an era with no Dragon Ball or SLAM DUNK in which Rurouni Kenshin was the lead manga ONE PIECE took WSJ by storm.
Sadly this isn't the case for TORIKO, WSJ has the big 3 (I still don't count BLEACH out quite yet) and around other 5 series with animes Bakuman, Mago, Beelzebub, SKET DANCE and Gintama and a manga with a lot of followers and no anime, REBORN! (Which I think is gonna end soon since it has no anime).
Now when ONE PIECE was serialized, 1997 this was the TOC:
ONE PIECE
■Rurouni Kenshin
■Jojo
■Leader Takeshi *BTW, by the author of TORIKO.
■Hoshin Engi
■JOKER
■I"s
■Kochikame
■WILD HALF
■BOY (Not sure if this is Hareulya BOY?)
■Hell Teacher Nube
■Ten-Ten Kun
■Midori No Makibao
■Makuhari
■Yu-Gi-Oh!
■Wrestling with Momoko
■Unmarried Witch Vivian
■Captain Tsubasa World Youth

Now, is there a difference between this TOC and the ones in this era? (Hint: There are, various differences)