Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2012] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Kaiten]

Kagami didn't have those rankings so far into it's life span. His point about hate on romance nailed my opinion too. Do users have to repeat that garbage about short, stagnant romance manga every couple of weeks?

I think there is a portion of fandom who, no matter how much they profess to like this series or that, never quite accept new series unless they are action. Kagami was a bit of an exception, being written by the author of Mx0, a manga inexplicably popular online in it's day.

Kagami was strange, an unusual case. Until the last three weeks it never really ranked poorly, it was generally near the middle of the TOC until the last few chapters. It was canceled months before St&rs, a series that consistently polled much worse. Kagami even sold decently well for a new series. I'm not convinced it was canceled, I really think it is true that Kano chose to stop writing.

 

[B'arzz]

Spoiler

So the next week bleach have page color or dont?

 

[Schabrak]

Never said that he didn't propose that to his editors too, his message/after thought about having to leave one half of the pairing in an unreachable dimension and how it reduces his possiblities of plot writing was pretty clear on that.

Personally, I don't care about the ratings at all, but that's one big part of the discussion in this thread, can't evade it forever.^^

 

[Kaiten]

Excellent! Now anyone who wonders can see what it means when we say a series is unranked. The series with color are on the right, completely separated from the rest of the TOC. Whoever posts the TOC to 2CH works them back into the TOC based on page number. Color pages have a predetermined position in the magazine, based not on fan polls, but advertising. Color pages are placed where it costs the most for companies to advertise. Thus color pages appear in the front and middle of the magazine, because four titles have color this month, one is placed towards the back. Should someone be thumbing through a magazine the front, middle, and back is where they are most likely to open to first.

---------- Post added at 02:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:21 PM ----------

Personally, I don't care about the ratings at all, but that's one big part of the discussion in this thread, can't evade it forever.^^

I only care when a series I like is doing poorly, otherwise it is trivia. Ratings are part of what makes Jump interesting though.

 

[k-dom]

Kagami didn't have those rankings so far into it's life span. His point about hate on romance nailed my opinion too. Do users have to repeat that garbage about short, stagnant romance manga every couple of weeks?

Well if you invent these supposedly 'hate on romance' posts then it is normal that you have repetition. Don't complain.

 

[Schabrak]

Someone's got to point out to those, or do you imply not having read such over the past months? Regardless of their number, hate on a certain genre has no place in this thread, one can admit to not like it, but to draw conclusions based on llittle information, there's no point to that.

 

[Kaiten]

transcribed for anyone interested:

Bleach
1. Toriko
2. One Piece
3. Gintama
4. Naruto
Koganeiro
5. HQ
Bulge
Momiji
Kurogane
Psi
6. Nisekoi
7. Beelzebub
8. Sket Dance
Mago
9. Kochikame
10. Medaka
11. Reborn
12. Kuroko
13. Pajama
14. Magico
15. Inumaru (end)

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

I can make out 'Sumimasen' or 'sorry' on Sorachi's comment, but that's about it. I wonder what he's apologizing for?

Yet another high week for Gintama, awesomesauce. It's probably the first time a serious arc has been so well recieved, and it truly deserves it. Considering the other two series I read are either constantly high ranked or on hiatus, the TOC is far from the best part of waking up for me, in fact it's about as exciting as watching paint dry. Though I guess at the same time, a new series that one enjoys is kinda like watching a kid grow up and hopefully become successful, though with Jump most of the time they're killed by the police, or end up pursuing a career in music and overdosing on their own success.

 

[Asgaroth]

another thing besides the obvious comments about romance.

i think that all the new series so far since nisekoi are really doing well in comparision with the last 2 years. it's like a miracle that they get so many, or maybe put some on hold. i mean it looks like they want to push rom-com in the hope 1-2 of them survives. do you think that we see another specific genre pop up after cancleation rounds? like detective or gag to find one gem in the mud? i can't think that it was by chance that we got so many of them. maybe they saw their portfolio and thought, ohh look, we don't reach enough of that group lets do some rom-com.

 

[Kaiten]

Though I guess at the same time, a new series that one enjoys is kinda like watching a kid grow up and hopefully become successful, though with Jump most of the time they're killed by the police, or end up pursuing a career in music and overdosing on their own success.

Liking a new Jump series is a bit like having a kid and hoping they do not get mauled by a pack of hyenas before you get a chance to watch them grow up. I happen to like Pajama, and it seems this week that there is something nibbling on her ankles. Hopefully Pajama learns to run real fast, otherwise it's a couple of months away from being dinner.

 

[Jaymie]

This week's bottom 5 was pretty accurate. I'm sad about Magico, but it's going to have to work harder if it wants to survive. It will probably be cushioned by Pajama and 1-2 of the new series, but it's still in danger.

 

[k-dom]

Color pages have a predetermined position in the magazine, based not on fan polls, but advertising. Color pages are placed where it costs the most for companies to advertise. Thus color pages appear in the front and middle of the magazine, because four titles have color this month, one is placed towards the back. Should someone be thumbing through a magazine the front, middle, and back is where they are most likely to open to first.

I don't think it is only based on advertisement since the places aren't as determined as you said. The second cover page can vary between the 4th and 8th place and those even for a same number of color page and serie (take issue 1 and 9 of 2011 TOC for example), the same for the other places, there are at least 4 of 5 different spots for the color pages.

---------- Post added at 07:54 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:47 PM ----------

Someone's got to point out to those, or do you imply not having read such over the past months? Regardless of their number, hate on a certain genre has no place in this thread, one can admit to not like it, but to draw conclusions based on llittle information, there's no point to that.

Can you point me what was the hateful post against romance genre in the last few pages ? There wasn't any. Only someone who said he think Nisekoi will end soon. How it transformed into a hate of a genre is beyond me.
I don't remember the ones you are talking about either. The only thing I recall are people who complain that new Jump series were almost all romance which is not far from the truth.

 

[Asgaroth]

Liking a new Jump series is a bit like having a kid and hoping they do not get mauled by a pack of hyenas before you get a chance to watch them grow up. I happen to like Pajama, and it seems this week that there is something nibbling on her ankles. Hopefully Pajama learns to run real fast, otherwise it's a couple of months away from being dinner.

nice said! but i must agree that there were parts around6-10 chapters ago which felt dull. everything got better with their trip and the nearly rape. so i think the horizon could be bright enough for the series to survive at least till 50.

 

[MattC302]

Got my hopes up for a One Piece color page next week

Can't say I'm especially excited for another Bleach color page since Kubo barely used any color in the ones he got this week.

 

[Schabrak]

Can you point me what was the hateful post against romance genre in the last few pages ?

I don't have the time nor the will to search through the thread and the last one at that. Some user said it's romance, so it will be stagnant fast, others mentioned they could never go up to 10 volumes because of the plot. That's unfounded claptrap, as there are just as many short action series. Rom-Coms were always part of WSJ, so the resentment of those is silly IMO.

Spoiler: Action - Comedy- Romance

Toriko - Action, Adventure, Comedy, Fantasy
One Piece - Action, Adventure, Comedy, Fantasy, Super Power
Bleach - Action, Adventure, Super Power
Gintama - Action, Comedy, Parody, Samurai, Sci-Fi
Naruto - Action, Adventure, Martial Arts, Super Power
Koganeiro - One-Shot/s
HQ - Sports
Bulge[new] - Action, Fantasy, Sci-Fi
Momiji[new] - Romance
Kurogane - Action, Comedy, School, Supernatural
Saiki Kusuo no Ψ[Psi] Nan - Comedy, Supernatural
HxH - Action, Adventure, Comedy, Fantasy, Super Power
Nisekoi[1/2 year] - Comedy, Romance
Beelzebub - Action, Comedy, Demons, School, Supernatural
Sket Dance - Comedy, Drama, School
Mago - Action, Demons, Horror, Supernatural
Kochikame - Comedy, Slice of Life, Police
Medaka Box[3 years] - Action, Comedy, Ecchi, Martial Arts, Romance, School
Reborn - Action, Comedy,, School, Super Power
Kuroko no Basket - Comedy, School, Sports
Pajama na Kanojo[1/8 year] - Comedy, Ecchi, Romance, Supernatural
Magico[2 years] - Action, Adventure, Comedy, Fantasy, Magic, Romance

To have five romance manga out of two dozen manga full of comedy and action, is it that bad? It's not like it was only romance that they did add to the magazine over the last couple years, there were dozens of other comedy, action, adventure and romance manga that were cancelled too.

 

[Divinenega]

My favorite Jump series:

1) Medaka Box- Since I read a lot of manga, it;s nice to see a good parody/deconstruction of battle manga tropes
2) Hunter x Hunter- The new anime reignited my love for the series and I like it more now than when I first read it
3) One Piece
4)Toriko
5) Naruto- While it;s this high on the list I;m pretty much just waiting for the series to end. it;s gotten pretty stale
6) Reborn- Same as Naruto
7) Niseoki- Fun little romcom series. Nice to see it;s surviving
8) Magico- Kinda bored with it now so I won't be too depressed when it gets the axe
9) Bleach- Reading it because my inner completionist compels me. Hoping it'll actually pick up again for me but I doubt it
10) Sensei no Bulge/Barrage- It;d be higher since I like it so far, but it;s new so it still has to prove itself a bit more.

Gintama would be on the list but i only watch the anime.

 

[Kaiten]

I don't think it is only based on advertisement since the place as not as determined as you said. The second cover page can vary between the 4th and 8th place and those even for a same number of color page and serie (take issue 1 and 9 of 2011 TOC for example), the same for the other places, there are at least 4 of 5 different spots for the color pages.

There is not that much variance. The first series always has colors, with only occasional exception. The first series virtually always gets color, another series with color pages is placed somewhere between P. 120 - 135. The third series with color varies the most, usually somewhere between P. 200 - 250. If color reflected rank that would be roughly 1, 6 or 7, and anywhere from 9th to 12th place. The biggest variation is if a fourth series has color; sometimes, like this week, the fourth series is after P. 300. Just as often a series is placed close to the beginning, between P. 80 - 90. The other color pages remain in roughly the same position. There are exceptions of course, some weeks where there are only two series with color, both within the first hundred pages of the magazine.

Magazines work about the same no matter what region you live in. Advertising costs the most in the front half of the magazine, the closer to the table of contents, the more expensive. Magazines put the articles of highest interest near the front and middle for that reason. Check a magazine at home, the cover story is almost always in the center, while the front has a mix of high interest short articles (editorials, letters section, news, gossip,etc. depending on the magazine). Most magazines are under 100p, of course. There is some difference in laying out a 500p magazine like . But the principal remains the same: place lead articles and the most expensive ad space where readers are most likely to read first. They adjust as they need, no need to be slaves to your own formula. But the number of variations are very small, when there is an exception it is nearly always the same as the last.

Can you point me what was the hateful post against romance genre in the last few pages ? There wasn't any. Only someone who said he think Nisekoi will end soon. How it transformed into a hate of a genre is beyond me.
I don't remember the ones you are talking about either. The only thing I recall are people who complain that new Jump series were almost all romance which is not far from the truth.

Hate is such a strong word to use for comics. You could find negativity directed towards slice of life and romance spread throughout this thread. There were predictions Nisekoi would be canceled quickly, based on nothing more than genre, before chapter 1 raws were even out. I've lost track of the number of posts about slice of life or romance not being able to last long because of plot limitations.

 

[k-dom]

I don't have the time nor the will to search through the thread and the last one at that. Some user said it's romance, so it will be stagnant fast, others mentioned they could never go up to 10 volumes because of the plot. That's unfounded claptrap, as there are just as many short action series. Rom-Coms were always part of WSJ, so the resentment of those is silly IMO.

Save me the crap of I don't have time please. The fact is that you are always complaining at people who are not making the effort to read the last pages. There was no hateful post on romance manga today. Nobody complain about what you said. Only romance lover who complain about those who don't like romance.

To have five romance manga out of two dozen manga full of comedy and action, is it that bad? It's not like it was only romance that they did add to the magazine over the last couple years, there were dozens of other comedy, action, adventure and romance manga that were cancelled too.

That's not the point. The point is that half of the new series since last summer are romance when there is almost not a single one in the 2 years before that

---------- Post added at 10:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 09:40 PM ----------

There is not that much variance. The first series always has colors, with only occasional exception. The first series virtually always gets color, another series with color pages is placed somewhere between P. 120 - 135. The third series with color varies the most, usually somewhere between P. 200 - 250. If color reflected rank that would be roughly 1, 6 or 7, and anywhere from 9th to 12th place.

6 and 7 are indeed the standard which are use for most of the second color, that is why I really wonder what makes Jump sometime decides to put a serie in a more unusual place like 4 or 8.

Hate is such a strong word to use for comics. You could find negativity directed towards slice of life and romance spread throughout this thread. There were predictions Nisekoi would be canceled quickly, based on nothing more than genre, before chapter 1 raws were even out. I've lost track of the number of posts about slice of life or romance not being able to last long because of plot limitations.

I wasn't the one talking about hate. I simply wanted to point that your reaction toward matto24 post transformed into something ridiculous like hate of a genre when nobody said such thing.

 

[Schabrak]

There's a reason why I plead users to use the "topic" thread for re-occurring topics. The discussion here isn't structured for topics[content of chapter] and has a magnitude more pages than the typical chapter discussion. Have fun searching for a post with "end" in it. Or did you feel addressed, because your own words "Pajama first chapters did not really interested me so I stopped reading it rapidly. Nisekoi also tired me. I guess I'm not a jump romcom guy. So I'm not really looking for a 3d one. " Well, I never did in this matter until you quoted me. Let's forget about the word hate and exchange it with unfounded negativism towards the length of romance series. It doesn't matter if it's one, two or a dozen posts like that, it's the assertion on the genre that's annoying.

So the point is that they push romance? They do that after a long lasting drought of those, is this a reason to be so negative about them? Will that enable me to badmouth the other genre when we only get action or comedy next time? I think it's only fair to have one third of new series to be partly romance. Kaiten has a better recollection of those posts as seen above.

 

[Drmke]

I believe the last fifty posts in this thread are what's referred to as "arguing semantics".