Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2014] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[[Cross]]

Eh, I entirely disagree. Countless generic manga start up and get cancelled every year in Japan, especially in Jump.
Yes, nothing nowadays is going to be absolutely original because chances are it has been done before, but a lot of the more popular series nowadays have unique aspects to them that put them apart from the onslaught of other generic crap they compete against. I I think it's weird for series like Nisekoi that do absolutely nothing new or original whatsoever to succeed nowadays.

Could just be the art. I will say, I don't really care much for Nisekoi, but I do like Komi's art.

 

[Kaiten]

I honestly don't know why. It's really generic and repetitive. It's not "bad" per-se, but it'd be a stretch to call it a good rom-com in my opinion.
I know it's popular, and won't be cancelled. I just don't see the huge appeal.

That's a matter of perspective. You find it generic in repetitive. I find Nisekoi endearing, exceptionally likable, funny, and sweet, with a cast of interesting, well written, likable characters. You may be looking for the wrong things out of a love comedy. The genre should be character driven, with the emphasis placed on the interaction between characters. The type of overarching framing stories that work well for manga like One Piece usually just interfere when superimposed over comedy, romance, or drama. It takes the focus away from the characters, their relationships, and interaction. Most of the time it just ends up as a bad gimmick. Komi Naoshi is very good at writing characters, convincingly depicting character interaction, and building relationships. And that might be why it is popular. That is what appeals to me, anyway. You might not see the appeal because you are looking in the wrong place. You can not be faulted for that. It is your free time, and you should not have to defend what entertains you. But you might be unfair calling Nisekoi generic and repetitive. That is more a matter of holding the series to the wrong standards, and judging by the wrong set of values.

 

[Kaizou 10]

Eh, I entirely disagree. Countless generic manga start up and get cancelled every year in Japan, especially in Jump.

It isn't really good idea to compare the series which got cancelled and the series which actually got popular. Yes, many series in Jump got cancelled BECAUSE it had poor ranking. For Nisekoi, it had good ranking, so it lead to become successful.

Okay, I'll try to spoon feed you. What I meant is that the series which got good reception in Jump will get popular really fast and that's why Nisekoi got popular.

Yes, nothing nowadays is going to be absolutely original because chances are it has been done before, but a lot of the more popular series nowadays have unique aspects to them that put them apart from the onslaught of other generic crap they compete against. I I think it's weird for series like Nisekoi that do absolutely nothing new or original whatsoever to succeed nowadays.

I'm not sure; I, personally, think lots of popular series are pretty generic. Plus, the rom-com really can't do lots of original stuffs like fantasy series; so, people like generic stuff in rom-com series.

Furthermore, I think you should better ask that kind of question to the people who actually like Nisekoi, like Leoat12. I'm just a person who make assumption based on people's reaction here (I'm not sure you actually read what I wrote).

 

[WyldViolet]

Could just be the art. I will say, I don't really care much for Nisekoi, but I do like Komi's art.

That's probable. Komi's art is really nice, same with Haikyuu (another unbelievably generic series that does absolutely nothing original yet has some really neat art). Despite manga being a visual medium, I really wish that people wouldn't vote for a series just because of their art... I mean art is important and all, but for me personally, story and characters are most important.

 

[[Cross]]

That's a matter of perspective. You find it generic in repetitive. I find Nisekoi endearing, exceptionally likable, funny, and sweet, with a cast of interesting, well written, likable characters. You may be looking for the wrong things out of a love comedy. The genre should be character driven, with the emphasis placed on the interaction between characters. The type of overarching framing stories that work well for manga like One Piece usually just interfere when superimposed over comedy, romance, or drama. It takes the focus away from the characters, their relationships, and interaction. Most of the time it just ends up as a bad gimmick. Komi Naoshi is very good at writing characters, convincingly depicting character interaction, and building relationships. And that might be why it is popular. That is what appeals to me, anyway. You might not see the appeal because you are looking in the wrong place. You can not be faulted for that. It is your free time, and you should not have to defend what entertains you. But you might be unfair calling Nisekoi generic and repetitive. That is more a matter of holding the series to the wrong standards, and judging by the wrong set of values.

Hm, well I wouldn't say it's the wrong set of values, it might just be /different/ values.
After all, there's more than one way to cook an egg.

 

[Kaizou 10]

Despite manga being a visual medium, I really wish that people wouldn't vote for a series just because of their art... I mean art is important and all, but for me personally, story and characters are most important.

Wait, you actually think the popular series get lot of vote because of artwork?

 

[WyldViolet]

Okay, I'll try to spoon feed you. What I meant is that the series which got good reception in Jump will get popular really fast and that's why Nisekoi got popular.

Do you seriously think I don't already know this...? I'm not sure you actually read what I wrote.

That's a matter of perspective. You find it generic in repetitive. I find Nisekoi endearing, exceptionally likable, funny, and sweet, with a cast of interesting, well written, likable characters. You may be looking for the wrong things out of a love comedy. The genre should be character driven, with the emphasis placed on the interaction between characters. The type of overarching framing stories that work well for manga like One Piece usually just interfere when superimposed over comedy, romance, or drama. It takes the focus away from the characters, their relationships, and interaction. Most of the time it just ends up as a bad gimmick. Komi Naoshi is very good at writing characters, convincingly depicting character interaction, and building relationships. And that might be why it is popular. That is what appeals to me, anyway. You might not see the appeal because you are looking in the wrong place. You can not be faulted for that. It is your free time, and you should not have to defend what entertains you. But you might be unfair calling Nisekoi generic and repetitive. That is more a matter of holding the series to the wrong standards, and judging by the wrong set of values.

Eh, this is a thought out answer so I'll thank you for taking the time to type it out. However I just don't see any of the characters or interactions as especially well written. They aren't bad by any means, but I've just seen it all before and done better.

 

[[Cross]]

That's probable. Komi's art is really nice, same with Haikyuu (another unbelievably generic series that does absolutely nothing original yet has some really neat art). Despite manga being a visual medium, I really wish that people wouldn't vote for a series just because of their art... I mean art is important and all, but for me personally, story and characters are most important.

People have different values after all, but I don't see there being any harm in having style over substance, some times style can be substance.

 

[WyldViolet]

Wait, you actually think the popular series get lot of vote because of artwork?

Well with Nisekoi and Haikyuu I can't think of any other explanation. Especially with Haikyuu which is just an incredibly by the numbers sports series that has unique art and fujoshi appeal.

 

[Kaizou 10]

Do you seriously think I don't already know this...? I'm not sure you actually read what I wrote.

Then, why did you compare it with the series that got cancelled because of poor ranking to the series which actually got good reception? If you actually know that, then you shouldn't ask me about this.

---------- Post added at 02:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 02:47 PM ----------

Well with Nisekoi and Haikyuu I can't think of any other explanation. Especially with Haikyuu which is just an incredibly by the numbers sports series that has unique art and fujoshi appeal.

It sounds like you don't really know much about past axed series with high quality artworks in Jump.

 

[WyldViolet]

Then, why did you compare it with the series that got cancelled because of poor ranking to the series which actually got good reception? If you actually know that, then you shouldn't ask me about this.

...Dude... I'm saying that countless of generic series that cancelled every year so it's foolish for you to say that generic series are more likely to get popular because that's what people are familiar with.

 

[Kaizou 10]

...Dude... I'm saying that countless of generic series that cancelled every year so it's foolish for you to say that generic series are more likely to get popular because that's what people are familiar with.

Okay, maybe I have to be more specific for you. I was talking about the manga series in general, not just about Jump series.

 

[Googlez_kun]

That's a matter of perspective. You find it generic in repetitive. I find Nisekoi endearing, exceptionally likable, funny, and sweet, with a cast of interesting, well written, likable characters. You may be looking for the wrong things out of a love comedy. The genre should be character driven, with the emphasis placed on the interaction between characters. The type of overarching framing stories that work well for manga like One Piece usually just interfere when superimposed over comedy, romance, or drama. It takes the focus away from the characters, their relationships, and interaction. Most of the time it just ends up as a bad gimmick. Komi Naoshi is very good at writing characters, convincingly depicting character interaction, and building relationships. And that might be why it is popular. That is what appeals to me, anyway. You might not see the appeal because you are looking in the wrong place. You can not be faulted for that. It is your free time, and you should not have to defend what entertains you. But you might be unfair calling Nisekoi generic and repetitive. That is more a matter of holding the series to the wrong standards, and judging by the wrong set of values.

Do you read the manga or do you only watch the anime?

 

[Drmke]

I loved the part of Nisekoi that the anime will cover. After about halfway through though, it felt like to me the quality of the chapters began to drop with Komi putting the characters in outrageous situations for the sake of being outrageous (the bane of romcoms in my opinion). Though I'm still totally on the Haikyu!! train. Sure, it hasn't redefined the shonen sports manga but it does it well which is more than I can say about a lot of manga

 

[Schabrak]

That's a matter of perspective. You find it generic in repetitive. I find Nisekoi endearing, exceptionally likable, funny, and sweet, with a cast of interesting, well written, likable characters. You may be looking for the wrong things out of a love comedy.

Komi Naoshi is very good at writing characters, convincingly depicting character interaction, and building relationships. And that might be why it is popular. That is what appeals to me, anyway. You might not see the appeal because you are looking in the wrong place. You can not be faulted for that. It is your free time, and you should not have to defend what entertains you. But you might be unfair calling Nisekoi generic and repetitive. That is more a matter of holding the series to the wrong standards, and judging by the wrong set of values.

How many love manga did you actually read to say the bolded part? To be honest, since you only watch the anime you don't even qualify to make a good judgement call about Nisekoi as a series. The first volumes are great[the art was instantly endearing], but it get's worse with time, which is the entire point people are trying to make. Adding another and another and another love interest for the sake of elongating a series is typical for many romcoms and also often the reason why they detoriate.

Interactions and bulding releationships can be just that, genereic and repetitive. As Rica_Patin already wrote, it's been done before and better at that. There is only so much that you can do in romance and when you've read 5+ series, you begin to see patterns, especially when they start to get longer and longer. I would chose Yoko Kamio over Naoshi Komi any day for example.

Spoiler

Cat Street or HYD are better series than Nisekoi could ever be.

It sounds like you don't really know much about past axed series with high quality artworks in Jump.

The argument was that the main focus should be on the characters/plot, not that series with good art stay in Jump. How often do people need to remind you that you are missing the point?

 

[TXC]

Comparing shoujo with shonen isn't really a good comparison...

 

[Leoat12]

If you look for originality in everything you read, you will stop in the first pages of a manga, book or anything you're reading. Nowadays, nothing is completely original and I bet that the majority of series you read are kind of "generic and repetitive", so I don't understand why people are complaining about Nisekoi when they also read generic and repetitive stuff. I don't like Nisekoi because it is incredibly original, I like because it is fun and entertains me, what's the main goal to read a manga.

About the story of Nisekoi, I can say that your opinions don't reflect the majority of the readers since the sales and popularity just increase. I agree with Kaiten in his previous post, you are seeing the series under a wrong vision.

 

[Kaizou 10]

The argument was that the main focus should be on the characters/plot, not that series with good art stay in Jump. How often do people need to remind you that you are missing the point?

I'm just disagreeing that Nisekoi and Haikyuu didn't got the vote because of the artwork. I think you are the one who missed what I'm actually talking about.

 

[[Cross]]

About the story of Nisekoi, I can say that your opinions don't reflect the majority of the readers since the sales and popularity just increase. I agree with Kaiten in his previous post, you are seeing the series under a wrong vision.

Hm, I don't know if I agree with the idea that if we don't connect with a story and/or characters that we're doing it wrong. Also, the fact that someone is in the minority doesn't make their opinion any less valid. There is no right or wrong, just different, and that's what's great about consuming/critiquing art. Nisekoi doesn't really connect with me, I don't really like it. Sure it doesn't change the fact that a lot of other people do, but it doesn't really mean I'm wrong, or right for that matter.

 

[101nemesis]

I would like to hear a few opinions as to why Assassination Classroom is good.
Would like to know what people like about that.