Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[G_I_A]

/\ Where One Piece enters in that?

 

[TyVip]

/\ Where One Piece enters in that?

Little bit to the left of dragonball, outside the box .

 

[G_I_A]

Little bit to the left of dragonball, outside the box .

Your knowledge always baffles me, G_I_Athuan-sensei

 

[Leoat12]

/\ Where One Piece enters in that?

Mathematically speaking, we cannot compare things from different orders of magnitude. XD
For example, I don't put One Piece in Jump rankings because it is just so good that it is unfair.

 

[Doughboy]

Was not expecting that topic of sexism and female characters to be like 6 pages long.... well, what can you do? The answers were really thought out and nice to read so it was fruitful.

Cool to see a good amount of heads on here read Yuragi, it's a good series. People focus too much on the ecchi and not that it's a fun series in general to follow.

 

[Leoat12]

I know you are talking about me since I am the only one that criticize the series here, so I will give my answer. I'm a strong critic of ecchi, I read mangas with ecchi as less as possible, it cannot be avoided completely unfortunately. That said, Yuragi is far from what I consider a reasonable amount of ecchi, so...
I read a bit of everything through the years, I don't need to comment about romances and I know what I will see in Yuragi no matter how "original" people say it is. It can be a masterpiece for all care (I doubt it), but the ecchi will spoil the experience, that's what happens always.

--- Double Post Merged, May 16, 2017, Original Post Date: May 16, 2017 ---

If you didn't read Koisome Momiji, read it. I consider it a masterpiece narrative wise and it has ecchi, but in the right amount.

 

[Halloween]

I feel like the people who defend Yuragi for it's non-ecchi qualities are the same type of people who claim to watch porn for the story/plot.

 

[Scruffy8642]

It's a bit shallow to deny Yuragi of what it does do right (which is a fair amount) just because it has ecchi... Its fine if it's just not your thing, but don't act like there's no other reason to read it besides ecchi.

 

[Halloween]

It's a bit shallow to deny Yuragi of what it does do right (which is a fair amount) just because it has ecchi... Its fine if it's just not your thing, but don't act like there's no other reason to read it besides ecchi.

The ecchi IS the main selling point, and you're constantly bombarded by it. Trust me, I tried to read it despite the ecchi, but I just couldn't.

Yuragi is the type of series that would genuinely embarrass me if someone caught me reading it. It's something that reaffirms negative otaku stereotypes in my eyes.

Sure, maybe it has positive qualities, but when the MC falls face-first into a woman's crotch repeatedly, well... yeah, no thanks.

 

[TM2]

I think the mark of a good rom-com would be if the audience still liked the characters even if the fanservice was taken out. Unfortunately Yuragi's character writing didn't really keep me engaged enough to want to see more of them despite how nice looking their designs are. I can't quite shake off the feeling that the writing is rather lazy even by the standards of a harem comedy. We've all seen the archetypes each new girl represents but the author doesn't really seem to want to put in the effort to raise them anything beyond that.

 

[Nakura]

Weekly WSJ Sales Rankings (9/5-14/5)
1. One Piece 85
3. Haikyu!! 26
5. Food Wars!: Shokugeki no Souma 24
8. Boruto 8
16. Black Clover 11
21. Kimetsu no Yaiba 6
91. Samon the Summoner 9
426. Amalgam of Distortion 3

MHA Sales
31. My Hero Academia 13
62. My Hero Academia 12
83. My Hero Academia 11
97. My Hero Academia 10
101. My Hero Academia 5
102. My Hero Academia 6
104. My Hero Academia 7
106. My Hero Academia 9
108. My Hero Academia 8
115. My Hero Academia 4
130. My Hero Academia 1
131. My Hero Academia 2
137. My Hero Academia 3

 

[tirakai]

It's good in addition to the fanservice, not despite it. That'd be like thinking fighting is really childish and embarrassing and trying to read Academia, it's a great series outside of the fights but if you have a blind hatred for the primary genre you're obviously not going to enjoy the other parts much.

I think the mark of a good rom-com would be if the audience still liked the characters even if the fanservice was taken out

There's an extent to that though, if you could remove the fanservice from a series entirely and miss nothing whatsoever I'd say it's a marker of it being badly done. Good fanservice adds more than just titillation.

The fanservice moments in Yuragi are part of the comedy and set the tone, it helps establish and develop the characters, and even plays a part in some story arcs, it's used as a comedic way to tie together the various aspects of the series, you'd miss out on a lot of stuff if you ignored the fanservice.

Take the fighting comparison again, sometimes fights are just there for the kids to find cool and could be taken out without missing anything important while a good series uses them as a critical part of the series. Fanservice is the same way, sometimes it's just there to excite the readers a little more (like most of the fanservice in Soma for example) while other series integrate it into the other aspects and make it a natural part of the story and characters.

 

[Doughboy]

@Leoat12 naw I wasn't singling you out, it was more in general. Nobody's denying that it has alot of fanservice, but it's actually, like, fun to read. Of course, the titis and ass everywhere can be distracting... or nice.... or both, however you look at it. But the characters, art, and story when it's story is not bad. I understand your complaints, for someone who doesn't mind fanservice in general I truly can't get with Soma's fanservice most of the time, it's unique cause foodgasms seemingly can happen in real life but it's just not my kind of thing. I will never forget watching the first couple episodes of S1 and seeing meat juices coming from dudes' crotches, I'm scarred.

My post is more towards Burachi-type of comments... so because it's heavy ecchi it's compared to a porno, ah got it. It's like people assume just because it's ecchi you read it for ecchi. We can't put people in a box over a certain genre because not everyone reads things for the same reason. MHA is a kid series, would I be embarrassed to read that in public? It's one thing to not like the series, which is cool cause we have our preferences, but comparing it to porn is dumb... so every heavy ecchi series is porn like TLR.

 

[TM2]

Interesting point about the fight comparison but I would also argue that fights or any physical conflict lends itself well to visual storytelling in a way fan service doesn't.

that isn't to say fan service is totally incapable of storytelling. Physical intimacy and development of closer relationships seems to complement fanservice well. But given the type of series Yuragi is. Fanservice kinda stops being special and more of a contrivance to move the story along.

Another thing while the general atmosphere and tone of Yuragi is very relaxed it doesn't really lend itself well to comedy which pretty much lives and dies on things going wrong or general absurdity.

 

[costicla]

The ecchi IS the main selling point, and you're constantly bombarded by it. Trust me, I tried to read it despite the ecchi, but I just couldn't.

Yuragi is the type of series that would genuinely embarrass me if someone caught me reading it. It's something that reaffirms negative otaku stereotypes in my eyes.

Sure, maybe it has positive qualities, but when the MC falls face-first into a woman's crotch repeatedly, well... yeah, no thanks.

So, you don`t even read the series, but then you start judging others who do just because you don`t like it. And about the embarrassment thing, well, then most people here should be embarrassed to read Jump as a whole, since the magazine is targeted to kids and teens and I think most people who read this thread are passed that.

 

[Leoat12]

The ecchi IS the main selling point, and you're constantly bombarded by it. Trust me, I tried to read it despite the ecchi, but I just couldn't.

Yuragi is the type of series that would genuinely embarrass me if someone caught me reading it. It's something that reaffirms negative otaku stereotypes in my eyes.

Sure, maybe it has positive qualities, but when the MC falls face-first into a woman's crotch repeatedly, well... yeah, no thanks.

The last one I tried to read despite the ecchi was Keijo and I gave up some weeks ago after try very hard. It is frustrating when it happens because you know that the series could be much better if the author just controls himself.

Man, I read Jump on the bus and I would be terrified to flip the page if I read Yuragi, I couldn't predict what would come.

So it does happen in Yuragi! I said it here and people didn't admit... XP

It's good in addition to the fanservice, not despite it. That'd be like thinking fighting is really childish and embarrassing and trying to read Academia, it's a great series outside of the fights but if you have a blind hatred for the primary genre you're obviously not going to enjoy the other parts much.



There's an extent to that though, if you could remove the fanservice from a series entirely and miss nothing whatsoever I'd say it's a marker of it being badly done. Good fanservice adds more than just titillation.

The fanservice moments in Yuragi are part of the comedy and set the tone, it helps establish and develop the characters, and even plays a part in some story arcs, it's used as a comedic way to tie together the various aspects of the series, you'd miss out on a lot of stuff if you ignored the fanservice.

Take the fighting comparison again, sometimes fights are just there for the kids to find cool and could be taken out without missing anything important while a good series uses them as a critical part of the series. Fanservice is the same way, sometimes it's just there to excite the readers a little more (like most of the fanservice in Soma for example) while other series integrate it into the other aspects and make it a natural part of the story and characters.

It is two completely different things and you know that, by your logic everything can be target of shame.

Good fanservice is a new concept for me. Fanservice, by definition, is only there to please the reader and have no particular usefulness to the story.

 

[Lortastic]

You're basically setting yourself up for disappointment if you're reading a series that uses butts and breast in battle and trying to avoid ecchiness altogether.

 

[Leoat12]

So, you don`t even read the series, but then you start judging others who do just because you don`t like it. And about the embarrassment thing, well, then most people here should be embarrassed to read Jump as a whole, since the magazine is targeted to kids and teens and I think most people who read this thread are passed that.

The majority of people out there don't even know that you are reading Jump, even less that it is targeted to kids and teens. Even if you actually read most the series in Jump you will not have this impression because it is not as childish as you are describing. Boobs flying in your face, on the other hand, is universal, everybody will understand that you are perverted, no matter the knowledge in manga they have.

You're basically setting yourself up for disappointment if you're reading a series that uses butts and breast in battle and trying to avoid ecchiness altogether.

Nah, it is was reasonable in the beginning, it was funny even, but the it started to escalate. I don't avoid ecchi altogether because it is impossible, so I'm fine with a reasonable amount. Read my posts again.

 

[Scruffy8642]

Another thing while the general atmosphere and tone of Yuragi is very relaxed it doesn't really lend itself well to comedy which pretty much lives and dies on things going wrong or general absurdity.

It lends itself perfectly to comedy? It's one of the things I enjoy most about the series tbh. Obviously it's not gag-style, but still there and I chuckle at it quite often. I'd be lying if I said the fanservice doesn't contribute to that comedy, so it is welcome, even if only for that purpose (Yes, I know you don't need fanservice to have comedy, but that's not the point).

The last one I tried to read despite the ecchi was Keijo and I gave up some weeks ago after try very hard. It is frustrating when it happens because you know that the series could be much better if the author just controls himself.

Man, I read Jump on the bus and I would be terrified to flip the page if I read Yuragi, I couldn't predict what would come.

I was actually surprised at how little fanservice Keijo had considering that's what the entire premise was based on. I don't see how the author could have toned it down when that's what the entire series is about though?

Not gonna lie, I am careful when I read Yuragi, but I was also the same with Berserk when I read it for the same reason due to all the nudity and just general seinen themes. Same for many other general seinen series. I don't see why that's a problem though? It's no different from watching a TV show like GoT and your parents walk in on a sex scene or watching it on the train...

 

[Doughboy]

Gotta just agree to disagree bro. Like how hot girls doesn't make a series great, heavy ecchi doesn't make a series bad. If I was reading Deku vs. Kacchan in public would people think I'm a street fighter fanboy or comic book nerd? We can't use that perverted argument if we don't look at it from both sides. It's no issue on liking what you like and vice versa, we just can't put people all in one box because this series has this or that series has that. Yuragi, in my opinion, is comfy and a fun series. All I'm getting at