Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[ChocoBar9]

And honestly? I agree with you. It doesn't change the fact that Kite didn't do diddly for the entire series whether he was introduced in episode one or 99, so making it sound like it was a huge hole for him not to be in the first episode really is an exaggeration. Yes, it was dumb of them to not include him in the beginning, and yes what they did do was pretty dumb, but frreal? If he were to be written out of the series completely in favor of something else, we'd still get a pretty asspull-ish event in the end since again, he did nothing to contribute to the series other than be in the first chapter/episode of 99 for a few minutes.

Taken as whole? Yeah it was a bit of an asspull in the manga to hinge such emotional development on such a non-character like Kite for Gon, the omission in the 2011 adaptation just didn't make much sense given its such a simple thing to include but obviously it didn't change a great deal in the long run.

I'm not sure what a handful of good scenes over a whole lot of bad ones makes for one series to be better than another either, but here we are.

I honestly can't tell which adaptation you're talking about. People tend to forget that the Chimera Ants arc had episodes that were essentially just stills up until the confrontation between Netereo and Meruem because that was the only standout scene just as people tend to forget that Yorknew was largely just talking heads in dark rooms up until the confrontation between Chrollo and the Zoldyck. It just depends on which highs do you prefer but I'll be the first to admit that I'm an outlier and my appreciation for the 1999 series is purely on its aesthetics than anything else but as a product it doesn't have much of a point since the 2011 is a more faithful and accessible adaptation.

 

[Kadir0]

First time I have heard an anime that didn't follow the source (HxH 1999) better than a one that followed it (HxH 2011)

 

[Leoat12]

The problem with this is you change one thing, and that leads to changing another thing, and then another, and then another and then it essentially isn't the same product anymore --it's just something that happens to share the same name with the original project. Now am I saying things need to be same all the way around? No, I agree there needs to be some changes, but I really don't think Hollywood is the example we really want to follow. I'll say my example in a previous post again. If there is a game/movie/book/manga/comic you like and they announce an adaption for it, and leading up to that adaption's release everything is looking exactly like the original, and then once it's released it's totally different, are you really telling me you'd be happy with that product that only has maybe flimsy similarities to the original story? No one when seeing that their favorite thing is getting adapted into a different form of media thinks to themselves "Hey I hope they totally remove everything I liked about the original!" Hollywood is known for taking too many liberties in adapting things which is why they're generally reviled in many ways. Making a small change like having one character appear in a different place but still fulfill the same role is fine, but changing character personalities and shirking off parts of the plot stops being an adaption and starts to become a totally different story. Which, hey, if that's what the staff wants, they should announce that from the start --"This is a different story from the original, so keep that in mind" so people know what to expect, rather than dropping that bomb when they're already hyped.

Adaptations that mess with the original story is bad not only for people who already know the series and wants to watch his favorite scenes animated, but also for potential new readers. Bad adaptation with a lot of changes make people think that something is one way and when they buy the manga, they see that it is completely different and may not like the changes.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Taken as whole? Yeah it was a bit of an asspull in the manga to hinge such emotional development on such a non-character like Kite for Gon, the omission in the 2011 adaptation just didn't make much sense given its such a simple thing to include but obviously it didn't change a great deal in the long run.


I honestly can't tell which adaptation you're talking about. People tend to forget that the Chimera Ants arc had episodes that were essentially just stills up until the confrontation between Netereo and Meruem because that was the only standout scene just as people tend to forget that Yorknew was largely just talking heads in dark rooms up until the confrontation between Chrollo and the Zoldyck. It just depends on which highs do you prefer but I'll be the first to admit that I'm an outlier and my appreciation for the 1999 series is purely on its aesthetics than anything else but as a product it doesn't have much of a point since the 2011 is a more faithful and accessible adaptation.

Honestly a bit of both adaptions? It's just one managed to hide it's shoddy art with strong story boarding, and the other had not good key-frame animation/storyboarding, but a little more of a dramatic flair. Like I said before, I'll openly admit when 2011 was airing I hated the mess out of 1999, but I realized after some thinking that what I hated about 1999 was how it screwed up characterizations, and less so what it did artistically --that it is the slightly more inspired work out of the two.

So in short we're agreeing to agree. I honestly prefer 2011 since it was closer to the manga, but I'll readily say it is not without it's faults --as is 1999. If someone were to ask me which series I'd watch, I'd say 2011, but say that 1999 is worth a watch based on artistic merit at the very least.

 

[ChocoBar9]

First time I have heard an anime that didn't follow the source (HxH 1999) better than a one that followed it (HxH 2011)

If you really want to be anal the 2011 anime didn't follow the source of material either also the YYH anime skipped most of the source of material and people love it more than the manga.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Adaptations that mess with the original story is bad not only for people who already know the series and wants to watch his favorite scenes animated, but also for potential new readers. Bad adaptation with a lot of changes make people think that something is one way and when they buy the manga, they see that it is completely different and may not like the changes.

Basically this is the reason something gets an anime in the first place. Not for the staff to test out their creative flair (although a good staff can work in the constraints of someone else's story to do just this and make something that sticks to the plot and looks really unique/different), but to give fans who gave their support to a thing a reward by animating said thing. There are going to be undoubtedly some differences between the two, and that's fine, but too many is honestly more of a problem than too few.

--- Double Post Merged, Apr 2, 2017, Original Post Date: Apr 2, 2017 ---

If you really want to be anal the 2011 anime didn't follow the source of material either also the YYH anime skipped most of the source of material and people love it more than the manga.

That's what I thought, ---in regard to YYH, but I've never read the manga for it.

 

[SkerllyFC]

they should announce that from the start --"This is a different story from the original, so keep that in mind" so people know what to expect, rather than dropping that bomb when they're already hyped.

For the most part, it's a good thing when it's not announced. Because they lose viewers that have that thinking of "the faithful adaptations are the best" which means they lose a market because of close-minded clients who I think are more selfish than the studios.

And it's a good thing that people in Japan see loose adaptations in the same way US see them, that is, most people saying "I don't care much, for me these or those changes are fine". They see manga and anime as two different products, which is good. While westerners want both products to be the same, making the manga disposable, because you're seeing the same content but in animation. For example, if I want to read Bakuman because the anime is expensive on DVD, I can do it without much problem. It's the same content. If I cannot find the manga, I buy the DVD, it's the same content. And I can do the same with any JoJo manga. This is what I mean when I say that most anime studios should stop with the faithful adaptation bullcrap, and add changes in the series they make. Of course as long as they are good.

I think the mayority of Japanese people cared little about the whitewashing for Ghost in the Shell 2017. Even Mamoru Oshii himself said i was too overblown.

 

[Tamil]

EDIT>Also, I'm worried about Vento Aureo animated. Unfortunately it will be a faithful adaptation, which means we're gonna see that asspull moment, and the bullshit that is "IT JUST WORKS". With changes in narrative, we could comprehend the storyline, the unexplainable powers and other things that Araki made that are just vague, but alas, it won't be the case, so I don't care much about Vento Aureo.

Now if you hate me for saying this, do it, but it's the damn truth I'm leaving every day, and it's buggin me a lot.

You mean GER? The final power against Diavolo? Not an asspull in slightest. That's probably the biggest misunderstanding. We've already known about requiem stands and the power of it. Was it convenient or broken? Yes. It's not bad IMO. What do you mean "IT JUST WORKS" bullshit? It was just a meme that spawned from the poor translations of King Crimson's ability. With newer translation that came out recently, there's no confusion.

I'm pumped for this adaptation. It's so underrated, especially with the piss poor translations we've had for years. I heard part 5 is one of the most popular part so I'm excited to see how it sells.

 

[SkerllyFC]

Fuuka death (I think it is not spoiler anymore, right?) was the best thing that happened in the series

What it did for the manga? It made the characters more lovable? It made you care about them more? Did it made it a masterpiece? Bullcrap. I hear constant criticisms about the new Fuukas and more garbage writing. I wanted to both read it and watch it because I wanted a Kids on the Slope or Beck for the new generation. Instead we got a crappy romance and musical series for the modern cliche and boring audience.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

For the most part, it's a good thing when it's not announced. Because they lose viewers that have that thinking of "the faithful adaptations are the best" which means they lose a market because of close-minded clients who I think are more selfish than the studios.

And it's a good thing that people in Japan see loose adaptations in the same way US see them, that is, most people saying "I don't care much, for me these or those changes are fine". They see manga and anime as two different products, which is good. While westerners want both products to be the same, making the manga disposable, because you're seeing the same content but in animation. For example, if I want to read Bakuman because the anime is expensive on DVD, I can do it without much problem. It's the same content. If I cannot find the manga, I buy the DVD, it's the same content. And I can do the same with any JoJo manga. This is what I mean when I say that most anime studios should stop with the faithful adaptation bullcrap, and add changes in the series they make. Of course as long as they are good.

I think the mayority of Japanese people cared little about the whitewashing for Ghost in the Shell 2017. Even Mamoru Oshii himself said i was too overblown.

And that's the crux of this argument. What is "good"? We know what is good when the adaption is announced which is the original manga, or else it wouldn't be getting an adaption, and even that is subjective. If they're just going to animate something to change things from the source then what's the point of animating it in the first place?

I mean I'm not trying to pick a fight here, but I'm lost. Do you just think that every adaption just just ignore the source material and do it's own thing? I feel like that's pretty dumb, but I think what you're getting at is minor changes, which again, I can agree with,. Though I kind of think you're getting the opinion of a few people and trying to have that representative of the whole. I don't think anyone wants to have an adaption that's not really similar to the original at all. You can in fact go through the topmost anime adaptions in Japan, and while a lot of them have minor changes here and there, I don't think you'll see those that completely changed plots being touted as "better". It's not an exclusively western attitude that people want to see their favorite things adapted as they are....that's just common sense. Though, again, I really think you mean minor changes, so maybe I'm just reading your argument wrong.

 

[kewl0210]

Oddly I think the YYH anime skipped a bunch of stuff in both the beginning and the end. Yusuke getting brought back to life only happend after a bunch of episodic shit they skipped over, then there's a bunch of episodic stuff at the end involving a short arc about some citizens of Spirit World rebelling against Koenma because of something or other that happened after the Demon World tournament.

It's well known now that Togashi rushed the ending because he'd driven himself half insane with overworking at the time, but I wonder if they could manage to do a bit more of a thorough ending in an anime-only form. Like how Dragon Ball Super isn't based on a manga but the creator still has to do with it so it's not exactly filler.

 

[SkerllyFC]

You mean GER? The final power against Diavolo? Not an asspull in slightest. That's probably the biggest misunderstanding. We've already known about requiem stands and the power of it. Was it convenient or broken? Yes. It's not bad IMO. What do you mean "IT JUST WORKS" bullshit? It was just a meme that spawned from the poor translations of King Crimson's ability. With newer translation that came out recently, there's no confusion.

But had the new translations made the series more comprehensible? At least as easy to understand as part 4? If not, then I don't care. I want a comprehensible story and powers, not crazy but imcomprehensible writing that makes a meme.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

But had the new translations made the series more comprehensible? At least as easy to understand as part 4? If not, then I don't care. I want a comprehensible story and powers, not crazy but imcomprehensible writing that makes a meme.

Sounds like you probably shouldn't be reading Jojo then, lol. Anyone who'd go into it trying to "fix" it has missed the point of Jojo. I'm not saying it's supposed to be nonsensical as much as it is a series that flies by its pants. It's the definition of something that's very "in the moment".

 

[Tamil]

But had the new translations made the series more comprehensible? At least as easy to understand as part 4? If not, then I don't care. I want a comprehensible story and powers, not crazy but imcomprehensible writing that makes a meme.

Yes. Go read it. It only got meme'd because the translation were really bad but those are old translation.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Oddly I think the YYH anime skipped a bunch of stuff in both the beginning and the end. Yusuke getting brought back to life only happend after a bunch of episodic shit they skipped over, then there's a bunch of episodic stuff at the end involving a short arc about some citizens of Spirit World rebelling against Koenma because of something or other that happened after the Demon World tournament.

It's well known now that Togashi rushed the ending because he'd driven himself half insane with overworking at the time, but I wonder if they could manage to do a bit more of a thorough ending in an anime-only form. Like how Dragon Ball Super isn't based on a manga but the creator still has to do with it so it's not exactly filler.

The anime also expanded upon most of the final arc by adding in the fights since they were skipped in the manga.

 

[Leoat12]

What it did for the manga? It made the characters more lovable? It made you care about them more? Did it made it a masterpiece? Bullcrap. I hear constant criticisms about the new Fuukas and more garbage writing. I wanted to both read it and watch it because I wanted a Kids on the Slope or Beck for the new generation. Instead we got a crappy romance and musical series for the modern cliche and boring audience.

You can criticize as much as you want, but it is not the role of the anime staff to change the core of the story and make it impossible to continue the story. Well, maybe they didn't have the intention to make a second season since the beginning, that's why they did this atrocity... Anyway, I have no complaints about the series right now, since you said "I hear..." I assume that you are not reading it, so I suggest you read to validate these opinions. Anyway, going off topic, I will stop here.

 

[Bomber D Rufi]

Oddly I think the YYH anime skipped a bunch of stuff in both the beginning and the end. Yusuke getting brought back to life only happened after a bunch of episodic shit they skipped over, then there's a bunch of episodic stuff at the end involving a short arc about some citizens of Spirit World rebelling against Koenma because of something or other that happened after the Demon World tournament.

It's well known now that Togashi rushed the ending because he'd driven himself half insane with overworking at the time, but I wonder if they could manage to do a bit more of a thorough ending in an anime-only form. Like how Dragon Ball Super isn't based on a manga but the creator still has to do with it so it's not exactly filler.

I really should read the manga then, huh...granted I didn't like how the anime ended, and I still don't, but I know that's more a thing with Togashi than it was with the anime staff. Maybe they might do a thing for the anniversary, but I really don't think YYH needs any new anime, tbh.

 

[TyVip]

Okay first you talk bad about my god Kentaro Yabuki, then you insult my other god Araki (i'm polytheist)
<< the purple guy represents you when i caught you.

 

[Tamil]

I agree...as much as I love YYH, I hope there's no "reboot".

 

[raikou]

First time I have heard an anime that didn't follow the source (HxH 1999) better than a one that followed it (HxH 2011)

Not a Jump manga, but seriously, I still heard some people saying FMA 2003 is better than FMA brotherhood.