Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2017] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[cody]

Nah that would be a really petty reason if that was the case because its not as if people are clamoring for a remake of Shaman King anytime soon so him passing off the only opportunity he'll get over a feud wouldn't be very wise but it does open up the possibility of the new work he promised being Shaman King related and that getting an anime instead if he can't get the remake.

The remake was about to happen though, he refused it for a pretty questionable reason, at least his reason was probably not the real one. The truth might be more complicated. I feel like Shueisha wanted to make a remake for one of their late 90's successful series and they went for Shaman King, the author refused because he knew he wanted to transfer over the righs of the property to Kodansha, he started working with them in 2014 when he started Nekogahara. Why would you ever refuse a readaptation of your own creation, which would only lead to benefits to the author overall, it's extra promotion which would've definitely increased the manga sales to an extent and it would've helped him stay relevant as an author with more exposure of his work to newer generations. I feel like Shueisha just went over to Hoshin Engi instead since things didn't work out on Shaman King.

 

[TyVip]

Wew. Guess the cancellation of Flowers pissed Takei off enough to sever all ties with Shueisha and hightail it to Kodansha. Well good for fans of Shaman King at least because it means he'll be starting on a new series in the same universe soon like he promised.

He just open a can of worms that shouldn’t be open

Incoming why can’t *insert author name and series in Jump here* switch to another magazine and continue the sequel there


Cough Bleach, Beelzebub, Toriko, Psyren, Mx0, etc...

 

[xAsum0x]

You'll only see that with Bleach, don't think many ppl care that much about the other series

 

[Tanzo]

Looks like the trademark rights for Shaman King are owned completely by Kodansha now.

http://www.patch-cafe.net
From posts here it looks like there'll be a formal announcement before the year ends or early next year on Takei's stuff.

 

[cody]

I wonder how the rights transfer thing works, it obviously seems to only be possible after an extensive time period especially for hugely successful properties. Do the rights expire eventually and go back to the author?

 

[ChocoBar9]

The remake was about to happen though, he refused it for a pretty questionable reason, at least his reason was probably not the real one. The truth might be more complicated.

Wanting to make sure that the music and voice cast remained the same is a pretty reasonable reason honestly if we learned from D.Grayman Hollow changing the voice cast can really sour the reception of fandom especially when the majority of them are still active hell the Hoshin Engi remake is getting ridiculed on twitter for its new cast as well and it hasn't even aired yet.

I feel like Shueisha wanted to make a remake for one of their late 90's successful series and they went for Shaman King, the author refused because he knew he wanted to transfer over the righs of the property to Kodansha, he started working with them in 2014 when he started Nekogahara. Why would you ever refuse a readaptation of your own creation, which would only lead to benefits to the author overall, it's extra promotion which would've definitely increased the manga sales to an extent and it would've helped him stay relevant as an author with more exposure of his work to newer generations. I feel like Shueisha just went over to Hoshin Engi instead since things didn't work out on Shaman King.

If an author cares enough about their creation they can outright refuse a studio to work on it and granted if his reason truly was to give Shuiesha the middle finger he fucked himself up as well because Shaman King isn't a hot property like it used to be with studios clamoring to adapt it so now he had to work to make sure this new series he's working on would be successful enough to get an anime adaptation.

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 5, 2017, Original Post Date: Dec 5, 2017 ---

I wonder how the rights transfer thing works, it obviously seems to only be possible after an extensive time period especially for hugely successful properties. Do the rights expire eventually and go back to the author?

If its anything like what came about with Gash Bell's move from Shogakukan to Kondansha then Shueisha had to willingly let go of the rights so Takei could move out before he filed a civil dispute over it which explained why he ended all series he had under them in 2015-2016.

 

[shoyoboyo]

He just open a can of worms that shouldn’t be open

Incoming why can’t *insert author name and series in Jump here* switch to another magazine and continue the sequel there


Cough Bleach, Beelzebub, Toriko, Psyren, Mx0, etc...

You'll only see that with Bleach, don't think many ppl care that much about the other series

Hey man, I for one would have loved for Mx0 to have transferred to one of the other magazines (WSSunday or WSMagazine). I thought it was great and it probably would have fit in a lot more there.

 

[SharkBait]

Bring back Shaman King Flowers.

 

[cody]

Wanting to make sure that the music and voice cast remained the same is a pretty reasonable reason honestly if we learned from D.Grayman Hollow changing the voice cast can really sour the reception of fandom especially when the majority of them are still active hell the Hoshin Engi remake is getting ridiculed on twitter for its new cast as well and it hasn't even aired yet.




If an author cares enough about their creation they can outright refuse a studio to work on it and granted if his reason truly was to give Shuiesha the middle finger he fucked himself up as well because Shaman King isn't a hot property like it used to be with studios clamoring to adapt it so now he had to work to make sure this new series he's working on would be successful enough to get an anime adaptation.

Not really a reasonable reason considering how much time has passed since the original anime and how much the voice acting industry changes over a 15 year time span, especially since some people retired from voice acting and I think someone even died. The author of D-Gray man still accepted the new anime for D-Gray man because she knew it would only benefit her. Why would the author of a property that is not so hot any longer care about sour reception when the anime was going to become a thing and directly promote their manga. Bad reception or not for whatever various reasons, it's still a very rare chance to get a freaking remake, anime costs millions of dollars to be made and you bet a Shaman King remake would've been pretty pricey if they gave it at least 3 cours and were set to do things properly this time.
Edit: Also, the majority of the people that would've watched the remake wouldn't have cared about the original voice actors in the first place because the majority of the people watching it would've surely been newly introduced to the series anyway.

Yeah, an author can refuse something like that, especially if he has a new very popular series that is ongoing and he thinks he can get a better studio to work on it or if he wants his favorite studio to work on it when they are free.

But we're talking about a remake here, of a manga that is long past its prime in the quickly moving manga world. I really do feel like he refused the anime because he wanted to sever his ties with Shueisha completely, especially after the rights transfer of the franchise to Kodansha has come up, it just seems like the core reason to me. There has been a trend lately where older manga from the 80's or 90's have been getting remade, but most of the series that are getting remade were absolute titans in the manga world. Then you also have stuff like FMA and HxH which already had successful adaptations, but were open for improvement with new adaptations that would adapt more contents of the manga. If you look at Ushio to Tora, you might say, it isn't really a titan, but for Weekly Shounen Sunday it is, it still remains one of their biggest properties to date after they've fallen behind and it never got a decent anime. Shaman king is from WSJ, which has a lot of other series that are more popular and successful that could get remakes or proper adaptations for the first time, the fact that Shueisha wanted to go for Shaman King over something twice as big like Kenshin for example, shows they were determined to bring back the series the right way.

 

[Koi Kage]

I wonder how the rights transfer thing works, it obviously seems to only be possible after an extensive time period especially for hugely successful properties. Do the rights expire eventually and go back to the author?

Not sure if it works the same in japan as it does in the us so take this with a grain of salt, to transfer over the rights of a property, in this case shaman kings publishing rights, the company wanting to get the rights would have to offer up some sort of monetary reinvestment, usually in the form of a one time payment but sometimes the former owner can request some sort of royalties pertaining to the property they transferred sort of like a form of compensation for any type of revenue they would lose from transferring the rights of said property. This is also assuming that japan doesn't have a statute about rights returning to the author if no new work is published under that name for a certain amount of time like with movie right.

 

[ruggia]

For Japan's publishing industry, the original author always maintain the ownership right of the IP. On paper, the publishers only lend the physical and/or digital distribution rights based on the terms of contract and even those aren't necessarily exclusive rights.

 

[Silverblade]

He just open a can of worms that shouldn’t be open

Incoming why can’t *insert author name and series in Jump here* switch to another magazine and continue the sequel there


Cough Bleach, Beelzebub, Toriko, Psyren, Mx0, etc...

Kishiro Yukito has already transferred Gunnm (Battle Angel Alita) from Shueisha to Kodansha back in 2010 when he couldn't resolve his conflict with the editorial department peacefully. These kinds of things are rare, but it's hardly anything new.

I wonder how the rights transfer thing works, it obviously seems to only be possible after an extensive time period especially for hugely successful properties. Do the rights expire eventually and go back to the author?

Mangaka have the ownership rights of their creation, and the publisher has to negotiate with them about the paper and digital distribution, merchandise licensing and different media adaptations. For example, Akamatsu Ken had a conflict with Kodansha editorial department over the neighbouring copyright law, and without renewing his exclusive contract, ended his Negima manga (only to follow it up with UQ Holder sequel once the issues have been resolved).

so it's not weird that fans that care about the news would know who they're

we even care about news posters even if they're not an organization like ANN and just fans like us

heck, we know who is Heji is, we know who Kaizou_10 is, it's the same with Yonkouprod

Well, that's exactly it. It all depends on how much people are involved into this hobby of theirs. For the core minority of this thread it's normal to know the providers by name - just like it's normal for the lurking majority to ignore these minute details. People come to these threads to learn when Gon will be back, they don't care that it is Heiji who has been telling them this for fifteen years.

 

[ChocoBar9]

Not really a reasonable reason considering how much time has passed since the original anime and how much the voice acting industry changes over a 15 year time span, especially since some people retired from voice acting and I think someone even died.

It would only be unreasonable of the main cast died or had retired but from what I've seen pretty much all the main cast who did voice work on Shaman King are still in the industry some of which are more famous now then they were back then. Getting the original voice cast back is usually the first thing do when a remake comes into question so I wouldn't call his request unreasonable.

The author of D-Gray man still accepted the new anime for D-Gray man because she knew it would only benefit her. Why would the author of a property that is not so hot any longer care about sour reception when the anime was going to become a thing and directly promote their manga.

And unfortunately it didn't benefit her. Hollow was so badly received that Aniplex cancelled the Bluray release and sales of the manga didn't move at all. And you have to understand these things work in a circle, your property might not be hot now but a good remake/adaptation could change things around and make them relevant again restoring their popularity with some of the most recent examples being HxH, Jojo and yes even Dragonball benefited from this. Had Hollow not been as poorly done as it was it could have brought the franchise back into the limelight and gave her motivation but alas it didn't.

Bad reception or not for whatever various reasons, it's still a very rare chance to get a freaking remake, anime costs millions of dollars to be made and you bet a Shaman King remake would've been pretty pricey if they gave it at least 3 cours and were set to do things properly this time.

And that's why I do not believe he would have denied a remake for such a petty reason I want to believe that he cared enough about his property for them to do it justice rather than just slapping together a half baked remake.

Yeah, an author can refuse something like that, especially if he has a new very popular series that is ongoing and he thinks he can get a better studio to work on it or if he wants his favorite studio to work on it when they are free.

Or he very much does not believe the studio in question would do a good job at it. Its not that hard to believe a creator saying no to someone interesting in adapting their work especially when so many creators don't seem to care.

But we're talking about a remake here, of a manga that is long past its prime in the quickly moving manga world. I really do feel like he refused the anime because he wanted to sever his ties with Shueisha completely, especially after the rights transfer of the franchise to Kodansha has come up, it just seems like the core reason to me.

And that's a incredibly petty reason. Now what I see is that he might have put negotiations on hold until the move was finished so we may or may not get more news down the pipeline once Kodansha does a release of the kazenban volumes but if we don't he really did turn down a deal of a life time for nothing.

There has been a trend lately where older manga from the 80's or 90's have been getting remade, but most of the series that are getting remade were absolute titans in the manga world. Then you also have stuff like FMA and HxH which already had successful adaptations, but were open for improvement with new adaptations that would adapt more contents of the manga. If you look at Ushio to Tora, you might say, it isn't really a titan, but for Weekly Shounen Sunday it is, it still remains one of their biggest properties to date after they've fallen behind and it never got a decent anime. Shaman king is from WSJ, which has a lot of other series that are more popular and successful that could get remakes or proper adaptations for the first time, the fact that Shueisha wanted to go for Shaman King over something twice as big like Kenshin for example, shows they were determined to bring back the series the right way.

It should be noted that we don't exactly know what came about here but the official word is that he rejected the offer because there was no guarantee to get the same cast and the music also the president of MAPPA stated that a remake of Ushio to Tora and Shaman King was among his list of achievements he had hoped for when making a studio so he was obviously going to approach Takei with the opportunity so Shueisha might not have had anything to do with it other than signing off the rights not because it was in their pipeline of remakes, a lot of the these things just sort of happened due to interest of an investor with one of the most "wtf" announcements was Tiger Mask W a sequel to 70's manga/anime of the same name which only came about do to sponsors of the Japanese Wrestling Federation being interested in revisiting Tiger Mask not Toei at all. So whatever the real reason is it was still a stupid move.

 

[cody]

It would only be unreasonable of the main cast died or had retired but from what I've seen pretty much all the main cast who did voice work on Shaman King are still in the industry some of which are more famous now then they were back then. Getting the original voice cast back is usually the first thing do when a remake comes into question so I wouldn't call his request unreasonable.


And unfortunately it didn't benefit her. Hollow was so badly received that Aniplex cancelled the Bluray release and sales of the manga didn't move at all. And you have to understand these things work in a circle, your property might not be hot now but a good remake/adaptation could change things around and make them relevant again restoring their popularity with some of the most recent examples being HxH, Jojo and yes even Dragonball benefited from this. Had Hollow not been as poorly done as it was it could have brought the franchise back into the limelight and gave her motivation but alas it didn't.


And that's why I do not believe he would have denied a remake for such a petty reason I want to believe that he cared enough about his property for them to do it justice rather than just slapping together a half baked remake.


Or he very much does not believe the studio in question would do a good job at it. Its not that hard to believe a creator saying no to someone interesting in adapting their work especially when so many creators don't seem to care.


And that's a incredibly petty reason. Now what I see is that he might have put negotiations on hold until the move was finished so we may or may not get more news down the pipeline once Kodansha does a release of the kazenban volumes but if we don't he really did turn down a deal of a life time for nothing.


It should be noted that we don't exactly know what came about here but the official word is that he rejected the offer because there was no guarantee to get the same cast and the music also the president of MAPPA stated that a remake of Ushio to Tora and Shaman King was among his list of achievements he had hoped for when making a studio so he was obviously going to approach Takei with the opportunity so Shueisha might not have had anything to do with it other than signing off the rights not because it was in their pipeline of remakes, a lot of the these things just sort of happened due to interest of an investor with one of the most "wtf" announcements was Tiger Mask W a sequel to 70's manga/anime of the same name which only came about do to sponsors of the Japanese Wrestling Federation being interested in revisiting Tiger Mask not Toei at all. So whatever the real reason is it was still a stupid move.

The new D-gray man anime still brought the series some exposure it wouldn't have gotten otherwise and it did probably manage to help sell some more volumes and introduced some people into the series. It was still a unlikely revisit of the franchise that could've never happened. It brought in new merch as well.

I disagree, you don't need to get voice actors back for remakes, if Hunter x Hunter pulled it off and no one really cared in the long run and thereadaptation was a success and got an extremely long run regardless.

If he would've been picky about studios and how they adapt his manga, then he wouldn't have let any modifications happen in the original anime adaptation from years ago. The main theory about Mappa's former president saying he wanted to adapt something like Shaman King a year or two before we found out about the anime remake can't be a coincidence, MAPPA would've done a good job for sure looking at Ushio to Tora.

Shueisha would've had something to do with it though, still and the mangaka would've still ended up having another connection to Shueisha that way, they might've even been one of the main people on the production committee.


I agree, no matter what his reason was to refuse, it was stupid, he might never get such a chance again and he might never get any of his new manga adapted either.

 

[ChocoBar9]

The new D-gray man anime still brought the series some exposure it wouldn't have gotten otherwise and it did probably manage to help sell some more volumes and introduced some people into the series. It was still a unlikely revisit of the franchise that could've never happened. It brought in new merch as well.

The new anime didn't move sales of the manga and that was its biggest failing and it didn't spark interest into the franchise despite all the initial hype it brought with the announcement. It was a complete failure.

I disagree, you don't need to get voice actors back for remakes, if Hunter x Hunter pulled it off and no one really cared in the long run and there adaptation was a success and got an extremely long run regardless.

For every HxH there's a Sailor Moon Crystal, Shin Mazinger, Saint Seiya, etc. Its an exception not the proven rule people also shat on it in the beginning as well.

If he would've been picky about studios and how they adapt his manga, then he wouldn't have let any modifications happen in the original anime adaptation from years ago. The main theory about Mappa's former president saying he wanted to adapt something like Shaman King a year or two before we found out about the anime remake can't be a coincidence, MAPPA would've done a good job for sure looking at Ushio to Tora.

Maybe he saw what they did with it and didn't want it to happen again. Who knows? He probably didn't mind it because given what his current state of mind was back then he had not thought of an ending to Shaman King at that point. What I do know is that he loved the music and the VAs for it especially Megumi Hayashibara performance as Anna so yeah I would not put it pass me that he turned down the offer because they wouldn't be able to get the original VAs and music. Wouldn't really put it past the president asking him giving that he also listed Pluto being an anime he would love to adapt and that got announced to getting an anime by them a few months back.

Shueisha would've had something to do with it though, still and the mangaka would've still ended up having another connection to Shueisha that way, they might've even been one of the main people on the production committee.

They would have just need to sign off on it but the decision was ultimately Takei's. This isn't something like Dragonball or HxH where Shueisha was clearly interested in revisiting them since their creators don't really give a shit either way (though it was Toriyama's intervention that led to Battle of Gods being what it is)

 

[cody]

Well, maybe a miracle happens and the manga gets a remake anyway since Kodansha are most likely interested in promoting it as much as possible because they'll have to republish the entire manga themselves. Maybe this was Takei's master grand plan all along, his series will still get a remake while he leaves Shueisha with a grin on his face.

The new D-gray man anime might've been a complete failure, but it was still better than nothing, at least they tried xD.

 

[ChocoBar9]

I would hope so. Deals don't tend to fall through so easily that's why I'm hoping he didn't piss away his only opportunity for his series to regain its limelight over something so petty.

 

[Halloween]

You'll only see that with Bleach, don't think many ppl care that much about the other series

You'd be wrong.

 

[Ecchi Boy]

I remember how eldlive gets less retweets than when akira amano posts a reborn images on her twitter, its kinda sad she wanted to try something new and people didn't want it because its not fujoshi crap (No offense Sharkbait). I would like to know how Takei plans to make a different shaman king manga in the same SK universe, will it be a different title? Will it be the same characters? Same setting?

 

[ChocoBar9]

I remember how eldlive gets less retweets than when akira amano posts a reborn images on her twitter, its kinda sad she wanted to try something new and people didn't want it because its not fujoshi crap (No offense Sharkbait). I would like to know how Takei plans to make a different shaman king manga in the same SK universe, will it be a different title? Will it be the same characters? Same setting?

He said he'll relaunch Flowers under a different title when Jump X got canned. Still its always awful when a mangaka once to do new things but it turns out to be less successful than your previous work so you wind up crawling back to it to pay the bills. To Amano's credit she ain't crawling back to Reborn just yet so just has more integrity than Takei and Watsuki even if Eldove is equally as terrible as Reborn.