Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2018] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Tarot]

Tell this to people whom keep defending their series suddenly in lower ranking of ToC, not me.

The only time ToC matters to people here is when their favorite series isn't at the lower half. It's funny how MHA fans get so overly defensive.

 

[De La Croissant]

Ever think people just gotten sick of MHA and Haikyuu!! starting in August 2017? Problem solved. No, seriously, you said yourselves that MHA just getting a lot better again, meaning around August 2017, the story must be quite crap yeah? (If you said it is getting a lot better now then you're applying that the series quality went downhill for some times). Quality decrease > People don't enjoy it > no votes > went down in ToC placement. But yeah, let's blame it all on EiC beause why not.

*EiC did decided which series in which position in ToC but if series have significantly lower votes, I don't think he will put that series in higher placement than any series with higher votes than it (except for OP obv).

Yeah, MHA is not perfect. Of course the fall may have been because it became shit/garbage/whatever.

But if we are going to assume that the decline was due to lack of interest and quality, and not due to """editorial manipulation""", we will also have to assume that the rise and stability of the Dr. Stone gang (since it happened at the same time) was due to an increase of interest and quality. So, what made these titles become (at the same time) so interesting?

And I'm asking this because in one way or another, with or without """manipulation""", we can not ignore the context, once the whole discussion exists because of it, not only because of MHA.

 

[Tarot]

Some times Japanese fans stop following a series chapter by chapter due to multiple reasons and keep up with series through the volume version. I know this happens with lots of other series in other magazine but perhaps this is what's happening with MHA and Haikyuu.

 

[UnspokenCoconut]

Imo, the quality actually already went downhill back in 2016, yet it still ranked pretty high despite that. The end of the lnternship Arc was quite controversial here in the west. For example I really enjoyed it a lot, while others didn't like it. So for me the quality skyrocketed again shortly after it started getting ranked lower. It's not even like the story was ever terrible in between to begin with. For me it just went from really great to okay to really great. It's not like there was a consistent quality decrease. Even manga like One Piece have some weaker parts.

Also Haikyuu at that time was as I said in one of the biggest matches ever which had some of the best moments of the manga in recent years.

To me it looks like you're not even reading any of these two manga so I don't think you can label the reason for the lower ranks with "quality decrease" when the quality wasn't even at its lowest. For Haikyuu it was in fact way closer to its peak.

EiC change imo makes the most sense. Two people will always differ in opinion. Or do you want to tell me that it was just pure coincidence that the 2nd and 3rd highest selling manga of WSJ suddenly start ranking lower from the same issue that released about 3 weeks after the EiC change. This perfectly fits with the time it takes from the deadline of the manga chapter to the release of the issue.

Like you have said, quality is subjective. Even if people think (including me) this arc is terrible or so on, but it doesn't matter anyway because sadly at the end of the day the only opinions matter were people whom sent the votes. Only their opinion about any series matter. What makes me sick is that, people keep blaming Jump Super Push every time their favorite series ranked low but discredit that maybe people just didn't like that particular chapter.

And I do read all 3 series you mention. Even I think Haikyuu is still good. But people might have different opinion. Dropped MHA a while ago because its became too boring for me.

I honestly couldn't care less about the series ranking low, because I don't take the toc serious at all. Because I know that both manga aren't doing bad at all. I just can't stand people who act like the TOC is the law and everything the ranking says is set in stone.

Did I act like ToC is the law everything even I already said it is decided by EiC but the placement still somewhat correlate with the votes received despite Jump Super Push?

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

I think in this way: both Hero Academia and Black Clover are enjoyable. Both of them are already part of Shonen Jump history. What thrills me is to discover if Noah's Notes will be able to enter also in Jump history.

PD: I wonder if in 80s there were wars between Hokuto no Ken fans and Dragon Ball fans

 

[101nemesis]

It's funny how MHA fans get so overly defensive.

It's not MHA fans. It just fans in general. Look at BC fans defending the series from every small criticism being thrown around here. RxL fans defend it saying it wont be cancelled. Naruto fans will defend Naruto's image whenever it's brought up. Pretty much the only people who don't care about ranks at the moment are One Piece fans.

 

[ShenGao]

Imagine the shitstorm if One Piece ranked below the Top 5 to give more exposure for newer series.

 

[Tarot]

Look at BC fans defending the series from every small criticism being thrown around here.

Which fans? It's just Ice King here. The BC fans I've seen already know their series has tons of flaws.

 

[DyanSon]

I probably going to kill EiC if thats happen

 

[TyVip]

Imagine the shitstorm if One Piece ranked below the Top 5 to give more exposure for newer series.

If i am the EiC I’ll do it for the April first issue.

Best EiC ever.

 

[MangAniMY]

It's not MHA fans. It just fans in general. Look at BC fans defending the series from every small criticism being thrown around here. RxL fans defend it saying it wont be cancelled. Naruto fans will defend Naruto's image whenever it's brought up. Pretty much the only people who don't care about ranks at the moment are One Piece fans.

Because OP clearly have transcended the TOC, (not /s) [Side note: does Boruto fan even consider the TOC?]


on a more "discussy" note fans have attachment to their favorite series regardless of the rationality behind it, be it because they ride the hype train to early, felt a personal connection, a work by their favorite mangaka, or they just simply felt liking it. The Overall TOC may not SOLELY based on the votes, because from Kakushigoto thought me, even the number of pages can decide the position in the magazine. But we have see countless time the series at the bottom are likely to be axed, and when said fans favorite series reach that point or showing trends of approaching it, they become worried a started to speak out and try to rationalize the reason their series are ranked there.

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2018 ---

Imagine the shitstorm if One Piece ranked below the Top 5 to give more exposure for newer series.

2 camps, 1 would be smugger than the smuggest, the other will be saltier than the saltiest (the 3rd is the realist, but those are a small minority)

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Imagine the shitstorm if One Piece ranked below the Top 5 to give more exposure for newer series.

That reminds me. I've been thinking this a lot of days, but I find strange than in these last years Dragon Ball is being overriding One Piece in both popularity and fanbase.

I think that's not the case in Japan, but worldwide, I have the sensation One Piece is way inferior in popularity that Dragon Ball, which I don't like at all.

Also, makes me wonder how other titans of DB age (Saint Seiya, Hokuto no Ken, Yu Yu Hakusho, Slam Dunk) are dead while Dragon Ball continues being way very followed.

 

[xAsum0x]

People know the ToC doesn't directly equate to how readers feel but baiting others is fun so why not

 

[TheEnhancedExe]

Like you have said, quality is subjective. Even if people think (including me) this arc is terrible or so on, but it doesn't matter anyway because sadly at the end of the day the only opinions matter were people whom sent the votes. Only their opinion about any series matter. What makes me sick is that, people keep blaming Jump Super Push every time their favorite series ranked low but discredit that maybe people just didn't like that particular chapter.

And I do read all 3 series you mention. Even I think Haikyuu is still good. But people might have different opinion. Dropped MHA a while ago because its became too boring for me.


Did I act like ToC is the law everything even I already said it is decided by EiC but the placement still somewhat correlate with the votes received despite Jump Super Push?

You're right that I might be subjective, but I took the whole fanbases opinion on the current chapters into consideration, not only my own. It would honestly be surprised if Japan thinks much different, because both MHA and Haikyuu have had some of their best chapters in between.

Also I'm not sure about it, but was it ever officially stated that the ToC is a ranking at all? If it was, would be great if you could provide a link. Because I remember reading somewhere that the fanbase started to view this as a ranking because someone added ranks, I just can't find the article anymore. Of course the ToC kind of reflects what's popular and what isn't, but tbh I never really care about which series is up front and which isn't. The only thing that so far was definitive is that whichever new manga is last for some time usually gets cancelled.

 

[MangAniMY]

I think that's not the case in Japan, but worldwide, I have the sensation One Piece is way inferior in popularity that Dragon Ball, which I don't like at all.

In my country Naruto and Dragon Ball (and fairy tail) towers over One Piece in terms of popularity

 

[Franz]

Which fans? It's just Ice King here. The BC fans I've seen already know their series has tons of flaws.

Really are pages and pages that invite people not to clog the topic and complain about the manga or anime in the apposite section (and people here must mock and my posts like those of a fanboy that should be ignored regardless, while post that they go beyond the rules because they are full of spoilers and have nothing to do with the magazine if they are appreciated, boh).

 

[Doughboy]

Also I'm not sure about it, but was it ever officially stated that the ToC is a ranking at all?

Oda said in one of the volumes Q&A that it isn’t a ranking system, it is to “maximize the enjoyment of the magazine”. Votes matter as it decided what stays and goes (Togashi) but we cannot assume it’s the only thing.

 

[Franz]

It's not a manga week without at least 3 days of BC and MHA discussions here.

And what are the sections for then?

 

[101nemesis]

Which fans? It's just Ice King here. The BC fans I've seen already know their series has tons of flaws.

I mean, you really just need to go back and look at the comments. It wasn't just Ice even though he is the more obvious one doing it.

I think that's not the case in Japan, but worldwide, I have the sensation One Piece is way inferior in popularity that Dragon Ball, which I don't like at all.

It's because One Piece is way inferior in popularity than DBZ and Naruto worldwide. It is picking up right now since we see so many more talk about it but it's definitely taking people time to get into the series. Many reasons for it;
1. The art is too cartoonish which is a legit reason I've heard at least 10-15 people say. And most of these are people who follow other manga or anime.
2. The series is 800 chapters in and 700 episodes in. For many, the sheer volume of the manga chapters and anime episodes is daunting. Another thing I've heard people say quite a bit.
3. It gives off a very non serious vibe when someone looks at it from far without going into the details of the story. This with the cartoonish art gives off a very different look and feel to someone just looking at the series from afar.

 

[Franz]

I think in this way: both Hero Academia and Black Clover are enjoyable. Both of them are already part of Shonen Jump history. What thrills me is to discover if Noah's Notes will be able to enter also in Jump history.

PD: I wonder if in 80s there were wars between Hokuto no Ken fans and Dragon Ball fans

At least in the 80 people didn't base they're opinion on MyAnimelist...

--- Double Post Merged, Mar 14, 2018, Original Post Date: Mar 14, 2018 ---

I mean, you really just need to go back and look at the comments. It wasn't just Ice even though he is the more obvious one doing it.

Again, I did nothing but invite people not to use the topic to talk about the manga or the anime, that's all.

If someone wants to argue well or badly, there are the appropriate topics. Obviously it is easier to create provocations for free and make heavy spoilers regardless of who might not be on par with the manga ....