Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2019] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Rain Spectre]

Shonen Jump gag manga really do have a ceiling on sales though. Like if you’re looking at best-seller lists we’re talking Kochikame and Dr. Slump, right? And they’re *phenomenoms*. No other shonen jump gag manga come close, or even really turn up on such lists. Like Jaguar, Isobe, Sexy Commando, Kimengumi? All undeniably big deals in Jump’s history, but even the higher sellers among them aren’t like... HUGE in volumes, you know? But they stuck in the magazine for healthy lives because people enjoyed them there. Kind of a sad statement about the way comedy is treated as disposable past the initial response but still.

That being said I don’t believe for a second that David or Japan were getting much love from magazine readers. Like for all their charms the former has just kinda been there and the latter has succeeded mostly as a marketing venture (which is fine)

More and more, the first impression of manga is what is considered vital. What was once just "Oh, people seem to like this" has become "This manga is considered something special". The idea of trying to maintain a series with a shaky start has become increasingly difficult, when the desire to find those things which are considered "special" is now the norm. Being "ordinary" in Jump's eyes, is a curse unto itself.

And the tricky thing is, how do you "wow" people with gag manga? It's become ever increasingly difficult to do so, not when the manga lack ongoing stories, lack traditionally deeper themes and often don't have good artwork. It's become an uphill battle to compare yourself to that brilliant rush, that operatic gaze...and all you have is a simple, laughable little tale.

In the end, no one is really interested anymore to read a manga about a goofy cop in the Katsushira Ward.

 

[Maxy Barnard]

More and more, the first impression of manga is what is considered vital. What was once just "Oh, people seem to like this" has become "This manga is considered something special". The idea of trying to maintain a series with a shaky start has become increasingly difficult, when the desire to find those things which are considered "special" is now the norm. Being "ordinary" in Jump's eyes, is a curse unto itself.

And the tricky thing is, how do you "wow" people with gag manga? It's become ever increasingly difficult to do so, not when the manga lack ongoing stories, lack traditionally deeper themes and often don't have good artwork. It's become an uphill battle to compare yourself to that brilliant rush, that operatic gaze...and all you have is a simple, laughable little tale.

In the end, no one is really interested anymore to read a manga about a goofy cop in the Katsushira Ward.

The only real ways I can see a new gag manga wowing Jump readers out the gate is if it has a stunningly unique aesthetic (which is still like 50/50; worked for Isobe, flopped for David), or it being so rip-roaringly funny it’s all people can talk about (humour being subjective means this is ridiculously tricky). At this point it’s getting less worthwhile for creators to try the genre in Jump, which is sad. Still, there’s always other magazines.

 

[Rain Spectre]

The only real ways I can see a new gag manga wowing Jump readers out the gate is if it has a stunningly unique aesthetic (which is still like 50/50; worked for Isobe, flopped for David), or it being so rip-roaringly funny it’s all people can talk about (humour being subjective means this is ridiculously tricky). At this point it’s getting less worthwhile for creators to try the genre in Jump, which is sad. Still, there’s always other magazines.

What Saiki have then, I wonder? Or is the last of the "ordinary" to serialize in Jump?

 

[Nemesis]

If I'm not mistaken, Japan is being moved to Jump+, and the Saikyo Jump thing is just a special chapter, iirc. Although I still agree it probably won't go for much longer.

Japan is being moved to Jump+? Is that true?

 

[Maxy Barnard]

What Saiki have then, I wonder? Or is the last of the "ordinary" to serialize in Jump?

I’d say Saiki had humour on its side, judging from the response. Like cultishly so, considering how it went from its volume 0 stuff to the full series. Like it was definitely something.

 

[Rain Spectre]

I’d say Saiki had humour on its side, judging from the response. Like cultishly so, considering how it went from its volume 0 stuff to the full series. Like it was definitely something.

If that's the case, then David should've worked, given that a lot of people were calling it "genuinely inspired". I guess that, in the six year gap, standards changed?

 

[lgrmjauffre]

Japan is being moved to Jump+? Is that true?

I believe this is the case, yes. The special chapter in Saikyo Jump was announced either last week or the week before (I forget which, exactly), but every leak I've seen of the upcoming issue seems to point that it is moving.

I believe the earlier statement of it moving to Saikyo Jump was a mistranslation or misunderstanding; it wouldn't make much sense for it to have a "special" chapter in the magazine it was already moving to to begin with.

 

[Mankichi Togawa]

Shonen Jump gag manga really do have a ceiling on sales though. Like if you’re looking at best-seller lists we’re talking Kochikame and Dr. Slump, right? And they’re *phenomenoms*. No other shonen jump gag manga come close, or even really turn up on such lists. Like Jaguar, Isobe, Sexy Commando, Kimengumi? All undeniably big deals in Jump’s history, but even the higher sellers among them aren’t like... HUGE in volumes, you know? But they stuck in the magazine for healthy lives because people enjoyed them there. Kind of a sad statement about the way comedy is treated as disposable past the initial response but still.

That being said I don’t believe for a second that David or Japan were getting much love from magazine readers. Like for all their charms the former has just kinda been there and the latter has succeeded mostly as a marketing venture (which is fine)

Sexy Commando had only 8 volumes, but each one of them sold like 1 million, didn't it? It has one of highest sales-per-volume in the story of Jump if I recall well.

 

[supercow297]

What Saiki have then, I wonder? Or is the last of the "ordinary" to serialize in Jump?

Saiki was a stroke of genius mixed with a long series of experimentation from the author. The premise was amazing on at least two fronts. His Deus ex machina powers allowed the story to take on any wacky shape or form, this reducing disbelief. Further, his telekinesis is key in boosting the comedy, as it takes the traditional Japanese boke-tsukkomi and allows him to make bokes of people's internal thoughts, as well as effortlessly tsukkomi without ruining his stoic personality.

Way more goes into successful gag manga than meets the eye.

---

Also iirc Jaguar sold 300k which already beats more than half of the Jump lineup rn.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Saiki was a stroke of genius mixed with a long series of experimentation from the author. The premise was amazing on at least two fronts. His Deus ex machina powers allowed the story to take on any wacky shape or form, this reducing disbelief. Further, his telekinesis is key in boosting the comedy, as it takes the traditional Japanese boke-tsukkomi and allows him to make bokes of people's internal thoughts, as well as effortlessly tsukkomi without ruining his stoic personality.

Way more goes into successful gag manga than meets the eye.

Great answer. That said, the build of "Defined characters and setting + Infinite possibilities + A protagonist who works as his own character" sounds like a combination virtually impossible to re-create without copying Saiki, which runs into the problem of not having anything really new or unique.

 

[CrOF]

Unfortunate, yet expected news regarding David-kun. Had one of the most entertaining casts of characters in the magazine, some great art and humor.
I don't expect the author to try gag again though, his previous work and the oneshots included in the volumes seem to imply that ecchi is his main strength.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Unfortunate, yet expected news regarding David-kun. Had one of the most entertaining casts of characters in the magazine, some great art and humor.
I don't expect the author to try gag again though, his previous work and the oneshots included in the volumes seem to imply that ecchi is his main strength.

Maybe he can replace Yuuna as the ecchi title for Jump.

 

[Ctkk]

Ecchi and gag might not be doing so well right now, but maybe by combining them together you can get something more succesful.

 

[Rain Spectre]

Legit, I'm From Japan is one of the most baffling manga I can think of in terms of it existing. Like...who is it for? The tone and humor is way too juvenile for anyone besides kids to find funny, but most of the jokes require knowledge about Japanese regional culture that most kids aren't going to understand. And despite that, the manga constantly explains the references, meaning that the jokes are basically ruined anyway for those who do get it.

 

[supercow297]

Legit, I'm From Japan is one of the most baffling manga I can think of in terms of it existing. Like...who is it for? The tone and humor is way too juvenile for anyone besides kids to find funny, but most of the jokes require knowledge about Japanese regional culture that most kids aren't going to understand. And despite that, the manga constantly explains the references, meaning that the jokes are basically ruined anyway for those who do get it.

I think you're forgetting that the kids they're targeting are Japanese lol

 

[Rain Spectre]

I think you're forgetting that the kids they're targeting are Japanese lol

The references are too hyper-specific IMO for a kid to understand (first chapter for example has jokes about Yamagata being known for growing cherries and the fact that it's the home prefecture of Togashi). Unless it's really hammered in from a young age, most kids I think are completely ignorant to the culture of anywhere outside of their home state/prefecture/wherever.

 

[LuckyJim]

Ecchi and gag might not be doing so well right now, but maybe by combining them together you can get something more succesful.

Isn’t that what David and Yui Kamio tried?

 

[Thundercat27]

So how is mangaplus going to treat Japan? Will they keep only releasing the latest 6 chapters or public all of them like other jump plus tittles?

 

[Rain Spectre]

So how is mangaplus going to treat Japan? Will they keep only releasing the latest 6 chapters or public all of them like other jump plus tittles?

I kinda hope they public the whole thing TBH. Japan has fabulous potential as a tool for reactions. The manga is so poorly made, surreal and random that reading it is equivalent to a fever dream.

 

[4Eyes]

Well, Sayuki, this pretty much sets your tombstone.
I'm so sad about this since I like the storytelling and it reminds me good old mangas where great things took time to happen.
The author should switch magazines, Jump is a waste for him.