Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2020] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[Shinuki no Reborn]

MANGAHELPERS "TOC" POLL ISSUE #51 - VOTING!​

The poll for issue #51 is now open, vote for your favorite chapters of the week clicking HERE!

Alongside the release of Sakamoto Days, the extra series this week are:

-Dragon Ball Super 66
-Boruto: Naruto Next Generations 52
-Ghost Reaper Girl 10

Good Votes!

 

[Halloween]

Moderator Notice:
Henceforth, I will be deleting posts that complain about Weekly Shonen Jump having too many/not enough gag/battle/exorcism/sports/etc series.

These posts are not insightful, and do not meaningfully contribute to this thread. Also, this decision is not up for discussion, so posts discussing this decision will also be deleted.~ Halloween

 

[Ryuusei]

Spoiler: 52 TOC & 01 Preview

呪 僕 O マ ブ S C D 破 C B 夜 C 僕 あ 灼 ぼ チ 高 ア 森 A 仄 ぼ 次号カラー ヒロアカ アンデラ 夜桜 約ネバ 道産子 GIGA 岸本先生が描くコラボポスター 爆豪クリアファイル

Spoiler: Issue #52 ToC & Preview

Jujutsu Kaisen (Cover & LCP)
My Hero Academia
One Piece
Mashle
Black Clover
Sakamoto Days (CP)
Dr. Stone
Magu-chan: God of Destruction (CP)
Build King
Mission: Yozakura Family
Me & Roboco
Ayakashi Triangle (CP)
Shakunetsu no Niraikanai
We Never Learn
Chainsaw Man
Koukousei Kazoku
Undead Unluck
Moriking
Agravity Boys
Honomieru Shounen
Bokura no Ketsumei

Issue #1
Cover & LCP: My Hero Academia
CP: Undead Unluck, Mission: Yozakura Family, The Promised Neverland, Dosanko Gyaru wa Namaramenkoi

GIGA Preview
Collab poster by Kishimoto
Bakugou clear file

 

[KagamiKuroko]

BC Sales have been decreasing for a while now and are now below the level that shokugeki was at when it got canned so why hasn’t it been given the same treatment?

 

[tirakai]

Shokugeki's chef consultant leaving is probably the reason why it rushed stuff and ended rather than falling sales. The series is getting a complete anime adaptation after all which doesn't happen to cancelled series (unless it's by some top historic veteran, which Soma isn't).

 

[lgrmjauffre]

BC Sales have been decreasing for a while now and are now below the level that shokugeki was at when it got canned so why hasn’t it been given the same treatment?

Because while Black Clover has also decreased, the overall percentage of sales it has lost volume over volume has been very small. Food Wars on the other hand was barely selling like 50% of its peak by the time it ended. That, and the actual reception of it plummeted.

Also, Shueisha has also said they will cancel a manga even if it's successful if it begins to feel stale having it around. So all those things probably didn't help Food Wars.

 

[Franz]

BC Sales have been decreasing for a while now and are now below the level that shokugeki was at when it got canned so why hasn’t it been given the same treatment?

I think because Jump doesn't have many other strong titles at the moment, so now there is more tolerance. We will have to see in a year or two what the situation of the Jump will be.

 

[tirakai]

I can't believe we're more than 5 years in and still have people here insisting Black Clover is some unpopular flop.

It's done 5 years already, it can do 5 more.

 

[SharkBait]

I can't believe we're more than 5 years in and still have people here insisting Black Clover is some unpopular flop.

It's done 5 years already, it can do 5 more.

well you know, people have to maintain their anti BLack Clover agenda so they just say the craziest things

 

[OtterBrigade]

I don't remember what was running in Jump at the time but Food Wars ended almost a year before Demon Slayer/Yuuna (which I think was where the mass endings started) so it was a different time then anyway. Right now half the magazine is unestablished and considering their track record since Chainsawman I don't see why Jump would cancel something like Black Clover that at least still sells decently until they get more established properties.

 

[Newkerzy]

I can't believe we're more than 5 years in and still have people here insisting Black Clover is some unpopular flop.

It's done 5 years already, it can do 5 more.

The thing is, it was billed earlier as the next "King of Shonen" (I still chuckle at this) from Crunchyroll. I dunno if Shueisha was in on this, but trying to bill yourself as "the next Naruto" when you're completely missing what made (early) Naruto special is just shooting yourself in the foot. For what it's worth, the series managed to build a fanbase, but it never lived up to the ridiculous billing. KNY and MHA would have a better stake on that claim.

 

[Serinox]

BC Sales have been decreasing for a while now and are now below the level that shokugeki was at when it got canned so why hasn’t it been given the same treatment?

Because the drop was bigger for SnS. At its peak, Souma sold 450k in four weeks, which then gradually decreased until the quality dropped so hard that the sales also did another big drop. BC at its peak sold like 250k in four weeks, and that just gradually decreased, but it didn't have that big of a drop. And its fall is not as big as the fall of SnS.

 

[Newkerzy]

I do have to ask....How far does BC have to drop before the E-i-C says "Ok. Stop. That's enough. You may RIP".?

 

[Ctkk]

Also, wasn't SnS dropping for like three years before they actually axed it?

 

[yadayada]

Because while Black Clover has also decreased, the overall percentage of sales it has lost volume over volume has been very small. Food Wars on the other hand was barely selling like 50% of its peak by the time it ended. That, and the actual reception of it plummeted.

Also, Shueisha has also said they will cancel a manga even if it's successful if it begins to feel stale having it around. So all those things probably didn't help Food Wars.

Shokugeki's VoV decline was not dissimilar from BC's at all, it feels like this conversation keeps happening and always goes the same way. It had small but consistent VoV declines that only started getting really visible towards the end, and even at the very end it was still selling more than BC does now.

BC's last volume sold 163,489 copies which is 62533 copies less than its volume 15 had sold on week 3 (27,7% drop), now if you checked how much soma lost over the same timeframe you'd get that it lost 112991 (25% drop), hell I'll throw in Toriko as well (23,8% drop), ironically out of the three the one with the biggest decline relative to its peak is BC lol. I don't get what the point of pretending BC isn't on the exact same trajectory as series like Soma or Toriko is, it's the exact same trajectory except its starting peak is lower than both.

I can't believe we're more than 5 years in and still have people here insisting Black Clover is some unpopular flop.

It's done 5 years already, it can do 5 more.

Nobody called Black Clover an unpopular flop and not to burst your bubble but Soma certainly wasn't either, this habit of treating any talk around BC's decline as if it was hating on the series is ridicolous and not healthy for discussion. The fact that you already see people say "I won't comment on the matter because of how defensive people get over it" is very telling.

No, Black Clover isn't a flop, yes, it's declining, and yes, this trajectory is no different or smaller than what we've seen in the past.

 

[Newkerzy]

Also, wasn't SnS dropping for like three years before they actually axed it?

Hmm.....when you think about it, BC going up to its 10th anniversary does sound not so impossible after all. But it might not be for a good reason though. If the decline still holds—albeit gradually—then yes, it will end around its 10th anniversary, but mostly because it had been in decline for 5 years.

Even Naruto had stable sales up until the last 2 years, and even then, it was already heading towards a conclusion.

 

[tirakai]

Considering the state the magazine is in right now, it'd probably need to be selling sub-50k and always bottom 3 to get axed unless they suddenly get 10 massive hits at once. Certainly nothing selling above 100k is going to get cancelled any time soon. In the past you'd see stuff like Nura and Beelzebub and Shaman King end because WSJ often only had 2-3 slots open for new series, long runners had to end if they wanted to give new promising series a chance.

Now though we've had total flops like Beast Children get to almost ch 30, and have Agravity Boys also likely to live past ch 40 (and possibly even hit a year) despite spending most of its time in the bottom 3 and selling below 10k simply because they're struggling to find real new hits to replace what's ending.

Plus, like I said earlier, I'm of the view that Shokugeki wasn't cancelled anyway, you can tell the last arc was really struggling to come up with good dishes after the chef consultant left to run. The series was clearly running out of ideas and it's not the kind of manga that could suddenly do something else, so it had to just do a final arc then end.

It's not a matter of fanboyism or whatever (if I ranked current WSJ, Black Clover would be low-middle these days), it's just plain silly and delusional to think one of Jump's top 5 current series will get cancelled because it's not as big as MHA. The series still generally hangs around the middle of the ToC, still sells 150k in a month, still has an ongoing anime, still has frequent colour pages and such. It's not going to suddenly get cancelled soon unless Tabata wants it to.

 

[KagamiKuroko]

Changing the topic, what’s your prediction on what JJK FM sales will be after the anime?

I think 550-600k

 

[tirakai]

Changing the topic, what’s your prediction on what JJK FM sales will be after the anime?

I think 550-600k

I can see it hitting high MHA levels of popularity. I don't think it'll be another Kimetsu level of popularity but who knows at this point, maybe we're about to get a new 1 million seller.

 

[yadayada]

Considering the state the magazine is in right now, it'd probably need to be selling sub-50k and always bottom 3 to get axed unless they suddenly get 10 massive hits at once. Certainly nothing selling above 100k is going to get cancelled any time soon. In the past you'd see stuff like Nura and Beelzebub and Shaman King end because WSJ often only had 2-3 slots open for new series, long runners had to end if they wanted to give new promising series a chance.

Now though we've had total flops like Beast Children get to almost ch 30, and have Agravity Boys also likely to live past ch 40 (and possibly even hit a year) despite spending most of its time in the bottom 3 and selling below 10k simply because they're struggling to find real new hits to replace what's ending.

Plus, like I said earlier, I'm of the view that Shokugeki wasn't cancelled anyway, you can tell the last arc was really struggling to come up with good dishes after the chef consultant left to run. The series was clearly running out of ideas and it's not the kind of manga that could suddenly do something else, so it had to just do a final arc then end.

It's not a matter of fanboyism or whatever (if I ranked current WSJ, Black Clover would be low-middle these days), it's just plain silly to think a series will get cancelled because it's not as big as MHA. The series still generally hangs around the middle of the ToC, still sells 15k in a month, still has an ongoing anime, still has frequent colour pages and such. It's not going to suddenly get cancelled soon unless Tabata wants it to.

Except i never suggested black clover was getting axed overnight, just that its sales trajectory is not any better than things like Soma or Toriko, in fact it's pretty much the same if not slightly worse relative to their respective peaks.

The state of the magazine in a couple of years cannot be predicted so I'm not going to go off and say "It'll end on year X", but pretending it's because of the series being more stable than series like soma or toriko is simply wrong, if it manages to last that long it's obviously because of the state of the magazine and nothing else, which is the same reason we get things like Mitama lasting 1 year despite terrible sales or why series that would've been axed on the spot 10 years ago with the same number of copies can be considered hits today.

 

[Franz]

I can't believe we're more than 5 years in and still have people here insisting Black Clover is some unpopular flop.

And who said this?

It's done 5 years already, it can do 5 more.

It would be ten years of serialization.

Far too many.

 

[ItsSamu]

Black Clover has already peaked (as yadayada showed above), is in a decline, but it's highly unlikely it'll get cancelled with the current state of the magazine. The most likely scenario is the anime ends and it'll end up stuck in the bottom half of the magazine for the majority of its run with minimal promotion/colour pages, though will still sell decently enough to be considered a success by the time it does conclude. It's not part of the next Big Three (which is always a silly comparison/conversation since no series other than One Piece/Naruto/Bleach ever will be) and isn't a pillar of the magazine, but it's not a flop either.

I stopped reading Soma about half way (but I enjoyed it a fair bit) so I've not read the infamous last arc and haven't been spoiled for the reasons why it's so bad either. I'm both dreading and highly anticipating it when I do catch up.

 

[101nemesis]

Exhibit A of why I said I don't wanna talk about BC's future.
Really not interested anymore in having the same conversations with insecure fans.

Moving on, Mashle 3 vs UxU 3 sales comparisons will be intriguing to see. I still give the edge to Mashle but UxU is definitely up there now