Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2021] - Discussion and ToC Talk

[suzume029]

The extras and afterword in Phantom Seer vol 4 offers some insight into what happened with it so I'm gonna put that here in hope to end this debate forever.

Neither author wanted to end the series. They had some interesting stuff planned for the villains. There also seems to be no drama either. Matsuura-sensei had a lot of fun drawing the series. Goto-sensei sounds downright regretful about not being able to write the story better. However, they also mentioned that they were comforted by the strong support for the series, particularly good sales, positive reader reaction, and in Matsuura's case a lot of supportive comments on twitter (his followers count more than doubled ever since PS started).

The special Jump+ chapter seems to be well received. Last I was informed it was the 2nd most viewed on the app out of anything posted on 7/2 and I think it also garnered the most comments on that day. Most readers expressed bafflement at the cancellation and wished for a revival on J+.

And with that here is my speculation on what might have happened to PS:
- It struggled to gain votes in the surveys
- It struggled to gain votes in the surveys from the right audience. WSJ has an incentive to prioritize certain demographics as they're more likely to subscribe to the magazine for longer and buy volumes.
- It was launched during JJK and CSM's height of popularity, after a plethora of other failed battle and exorcist series into a magazine with plenty of battle series to compete with, so it wasn't that people didn't like it, it could have been stuck being the 4th, 5th, 6th favourite that didn't show up in survey results. The genre saturation didn't do it much favour either.
- Strong online reception and word of mouth led to a lot of non-magazine readers picking up the volumes.

Its editor very likely knew about the strong sales and kept putting circulation numbers on the volumes' obi as advertisement. Was the cancellation perhaps wasteful? Sure, a lot of people agree. But it could also be a "this is good but you can do much better" thing. The writer clearly has the chops, PS has amazing storyboards.

Goto-sensei hoped for continued fan support for their next work, so sounds like they fully intend to come back.

Quit falling for the most obvious bait 2021. Really need a mod back in this thread.

 

[julidagx]

I have one question for you guys, when you first read mashle, did you expect that it would become an established series?, I personally didn't

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2021 ---

The extras and afterword in Phantom Seer vol 4 offers some insight into what happened with it so I'm gonna put that here in hope to end this debate forever.

Neither author wanted to end the series. They had some interesting stuff planned for the villains. There also seems to be no drama either. Matsuura-sensei had a lot of fun drawing the series. Goto-sensei sounds downright regretful about not being able to write the story better. However, they also mentioned that they were comforted by the strong support for the series, particularly good sales, positive reader reaction, and in Matsuura's case a lot of supportive comments on twitter (his followers count more than doubled ever since PS started).

The special Jump+ chapter seems to be well received. Last I was informed it was the 2nd most viewed on the app out of anything posted on 7/2 and I think it also garnered the most comments on that day. Most readers expressed bafflement at the cancellation and wished for a revival on J+.

And with that here is my speculation on what might have happened to PS:
- It struggled to gain votes in the surveys
- It struggled to gain votes in the surveys from the right audience. WSJ has an incentive to prioritize certain demographics as they're more likely to subscribe to the magazine for longer and buy volumes.
- It was launched during JJK and CSM's height of popularity, after a plethora of other failed battle and exorcist series into a magazine with plenty of battle series to compete with, so it wasn't that people didn't like it, it could have been stuck being the 4th, 5th, 6th favourite that didn't show up in survey results. The genre saturation didn't do it much favour either.
- Strong online reception and word of mouth lead to a lot of non-magazine readers picking up the volumes.

Its editor very likely knew about the strong sales and keep putting circulation numbers on the volumes' obi as advertisement. Was the cancellation perhaps wasteful? Sure, a lot of people agree. But it could also be a "this is good but you can do much better" thing. The writer clearly has the chops, PS has amazing storyboards.

Goto-sensei hoped for continued fan support for their next work, so it sounds like they're fully intending to comeback.

Quit falling for the most obvious bait 2021. Really need a mod back in this thread.

I think that the reasons 2 to 4 are the most accurate, when people were talking about PS cancelation, i said that the series belonged in an already saturated genre with much more successful series and it simply had too much competition.

Altough the art and the paneling and compostion were great, I personally hope that the writer comes back with a stronger core cast of characters, I honestly think that's something that Phantom Seer lacked in comparation to more successful titles that it might had contributed to the poor rankings

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

In the end is probably the most obvious reason, lack of votes in the surveys, which weights more for a traditional battle shounen like Phantom Seer, but still, i think Nakano was too fast with the cancelation, is crazy to realise that is just 3 chapters longer than Tokyo Shinobi Squad that bombed hard with 2,765 copies in 5 days, the good thing is that they have a audience and maybe can deliver a definitive popular series next, Nakano & editors would have to be insane to not keep a eye in the duo.

I have one question for you guys, when you first read mashle, did you expect that it would become an established series?, I personally didn't

Not exactly estabilished series but never thought it would be a flop, you could feel from the start that it had something going on for it.

 

[Capi]

Shoseki 7/3
3. Black Clover #29
7. Elusive Samurai #1
28. Undead Unluck #7
46. Yozakura-san Chi no Daisakusen #9
67. Phantom Seer #4
81. Me and Roboco #4
214. Agravity Boys #7
216. Agravity Boys #6
229. Hard-Boiled Cop and Dolphin #4

Last month's volumes:
243. Witch Watch #1
260. Sakamoto Days #2

 

[julidagx]

In the end is probably the most obvious reason, lack of votes in the surveys, which weights more for a traditional battle shounen like Phantom Seer, but still, i think Nakano was too fast with the cancelation, is crazy to realise that is just 3 chapters longer than Tokyo Shinobi Squad that bombed hard with 2,765 copies in 5 days, the good thing is that they have a audience and maybe can deliver a definitive popular series next, Nakano & editors would have to be insane to not keep a eye in the duo.

I personally think that the PS duo should go to Jump+ instead, they might have more chances there

 

[savethecat]

I have one question for you guys, when you first read mashle, did you expect that it would become an established series?, I personally didn't

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2021 ---

I don't really expect anything to be massive hits or established. I think i would feel differently if audiences outside of Japan had a major impact on whether or not something gets axed. Red Hood was the top Trending topic for Anime/Manga on twitter when chapter 1 dropped. So if our say mattered, I would expect that Red Hood could have a shot at being established. But the opinions and tastes of Japanese rea;ders can often differ from the tastes of foreign readers.

The only I may expect something to become well established in when its something like Elusive Samurai, or Samurai 8; where its a returning established manga coming back( Yes S8 flopped, but a lot of us "expected" it to be a success. or at the very least, a mediocrely performing established series that Jump forcefully pushed until it got an anime)

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2021 ---

I personally think that the PS duo should go to Jump+ instead, they might have more chances there

The only benefit that Jump+ seems to have over the print magazine is potentially having a more flexible work schedule. Jump+ has heavy axes too.
They'll probably be fine in the print magazine, as they may have returning fans coming to support.

 

[perroloco]

@julidagx

I never expect anything to be a hit. That's just me, I usually don't read newbies until I know for certain they aren't gonna get canceled..

So I might as well read Mashle now, and Elusive Samurai, that's not going anywhere.

Anyway, I guess I could answer your question with my first impressions on Mashle, without having actually read it. Just at first glance, I didn't particularly think anything of it... Like sometimes the art of a new manga appeals to me, and its art didn't strike me as great or anything. The premise, from what I read here, was interesting. Basically Harry Potter + One Punch Man iirc.

 

[julidagx]

The only benefit that Jump+ seems to have over the print magazine is potentially having a more flexible work schedule. Jump+ has heavy axes too.
They'll probably be fine in the print magazine, as they may have returning fans coming to support.

Actually, another benefit of being on jump+ is that chapters are free (at least for limited time), which helps to expose the manga to more people

For example, i think a manga like Dandadan would have had a much tougher time in Jump, since it has the same "great art, serviceable writing" as phantom seer had, and it would also had to compete with JJK and other more successful mangas of the same genre, but thanks to social media, it attracted a lot of people to the point that it's considered already a hit, at least in view numbers

Also, i think that an artist with the skill of matsura would probably attract a lot of readers, at least to see the pretty drawings, especially if it is for free

Obviously, that's just my personal opinion, it might as well fail for all that i know

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Shoseki 7/3
3. Black Clover #29
7. Elusive Samurai #1
28. Undead Unluck #7
46. Yozakura-san Chi no Daisakusen #9
67. Phantom Seer #4
81. Me and Roboco #4
214. Agravity Boys #7
216. Agravity Boys #6
229. Hard-Boiled Cop and Dolphin #4

Last month's volumes:
243. Witch Watch #1
260. Sakamoto Days #2

Funny, Undead and Yozakura positions are pratically the same one from their last volume in the 2nd day, #29 and #46, Phantom Seer actually hold better, #84, same with Roboco, #91, but the rest? some big drop and i tell c not even being able to keep in the top 500 is crazy, how it dropped from 100ish to under 500th in 1 day? lol

 

[savethecat]

Actually, another benefit of being on jump+ is that chapters are free (at least for limited time), which helps to expose the manga to more people

For example, i think a manga like Dandadan would have had a tougher time in Jump, since it has the same "great art, serviceable writing" as phantom seer had, and it would also had to compete with JJK and other more successful mangas of the same genre, but thanks to social media, it attracted a lot of people to the point that it's considered already a hit, at least in view numbers

Also, i think that an artist with the skill of matsura would probably attract a lot of readers at least to see the pretty drawings, especially if it is for free

Obviously, that's just my personal opinion, it might as well fail for all that i know

I suppose. But the vast majority of Jump+ series don't do insane numbers or anything, so i can't imagine them being free really benefits them that much. I mean, an Issue of Jump is extremely cheap anyway.
And i could be wrong about this, but I believe the beginning of every new Jump title is uploaded on Jump+ for free anyway

 

[Shinuki no Reborn]

Anyway, I guess I could answer your question with my first impressions on Mashle, without having actually read it. Just at first glance, I didn't particularly think anything of it... Like sometimes the art of a new manga appeals to me, and its art didn't strike me as great or anything. The premise, from what I read here, was interesting. Basically Harry Potter + One Punch Man iirc.

And Black Clover too since the whole premise was "boy with no magic in a world full of magic people and defeating them with muscles"

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2021 ---

I suppose. But the vast majority of Jump+ series don't do insane numbers or anything, so i can't imagine them being free really benefits them that much. I mean, an Issue of Jump is extremely cheap anyway.
And i could be wrong about this, but I believe the beginning of every new Jump title is uploaded on Jump+ for free anyway

The first 3 chapters or more are always free and for most series the last 3+ chapters released too.

 

[animeexpert]

There was both NuraMago and Psyren that sold less than Double Arts in their first volumes released around the same time, i don't think it was a matter of being at the wrong time, the manga started super popular and high in the rankings but seems like readers in the magazine just lost interest in the middle, probably after Naoshi started to slow down the pace (which he did the same with Nisekoi after 50 chapters), and ended up sinking in the rankings.

Psyren Is definitely the one that came in the wrong time.

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2021 ---

The extras and afterword in Phantom Seer vol 4 offers some insight into what happened with it so I'm gonna put that here in hope to end this debate forever.

Neither author wanted to end the series. They had some interesting stuff planned for the villains. There also seems to be no drama either. Matsuura-sensei had a lot of fun drawing the series. Goto-sensei sounds downright regretful about not being able to write the story better. However, they also mentioned that they were comforted by the strong support for the series, particularly good sales, positive reader reaction, and in Matsuura's case a lot of supportive comments on twitter (his followers count more than doubled ever since PS started).

The special Jump+ chapter seems to be well received. Last I was informed it was the 2nd most viewed on the app out of anything posted on 7/2 and I think it also garnered the most comments on that day. Most readers expressed bafflement at the cancellation and wished for a revival on J+.

And with that here is my speculation on what might have happened to PS:
- It struggled to gain votes in the surveys
- It struggled to gain votes in the surveys from the right audience. WSJ has an incentive to prioritize certain demographics as they're more likely to subscribe to the magazine for longer and buy volumes.
- It was launched during JJK and CSM's height of popularity, after a plethora of other failed battle and exorcist series into a magazine with plenty of battle series to compete with, so it wasn't that people didn't like it, it could have been stuck being the 4th, 5th, 6th favourite that didn't show up in survey results. The genre saturation didn't do it much favour either.
- Strong online reception and word of mouth led to a lot of non-magazine readers picking up the volumes.

Its editor very likely knew about the strong sales and kept putting circulation numbers on the volumes' obi as advertisement. Was the cancellation perhaps wasteful? Sure, a lot of people agree. But it could also be a "this is good but you can do much better" thing. The writer clearly has the chops, PS has amazing storyboards.

Goto-sensei hoped for continued fan support for their next work, so sounds like they fully intend to come back.

Quit falling for the most obvious bait 2021. Really need a mod back in this thread.

So they were just very unlucky as in they just weren't thaaaat little bit more good enough. That just sucks hard I mean its still weird imo, it's just bad luck

 

[suzume029]

In the end is probably the most obvious reason, lack of votes in the surveys, which weights more for a traditional battle shounen like Phantom Seer, but still, i think Nakano was too fast with the cancelation, is crazy to realise that is just 3 chapters longer than Tokyo Shinobi Squad that bombed hard with 2,765 copies in 5 days, the good thing is that they have a audience and maybe can deliver a definitive popular series next, Nakano & editors would have to be insane to not keep a eye in the duo.

Altough the art and the paneling and compostion were great, I personally hope that the writer comes back with a stronger core cast of characters, I honestly think that's something that Phantom Seer lacked in comparation to more successful titles that it might had contributed to the poor rankings

I personally think the core cast was pretty interesting honestly, just that the story didn't move (and didn't last long enough to have the chance) to let them shine. Although some of the unused stuff in vol 4 extras has enough potential interesting story ramifications that I do have a bitter gut feeling maybe the cancellation had came too early. PS debuted not too long after TSS and did vastly better, it can't be that the art was the only thing hooking people.

The only benefit that Jump+ seems to have over the print magazine is potentially having a more flexible work schedule. Jump+ has heavy axes too.

J+ is constantly looking for new serializations and is much more flexible about what they let run on their platform. View count and reception are what they based their axes on, and sales also seems to hold more weight, all of which PS already has plenty of by J+'s standards. It's not a bad fit. I also think Matsuura-sensei's art looks much better digitally as the paper in the print magazine doesn't hold ink very well and muddles out a lot of the tones.

All what ifs aside, now that the duo has an established audience, they can probably do either way, although I still prefer J+.

 

[perroloco]

All this makes me wonder.. Is something preventing the authors from publishing themselves?
They already have an established audience online and the manga was selling...
Like do you think there is something in their contract along the lines of "you can't publish by yourself (x time) after being published in WSJ"? I mean we all know that the creators, unlike in say the american comic industry, hold the rights to their IPs.

Don't get me wrong, I love WSJ just as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see a canceled author continue their series online or something and become a worldwide hit haha

 

[Aeneas]

All this makes me wonder.. Is something preventing the authors from publishing themselves?
They already have an established audience online and the manga was selling...
Like do you think there is something in their contract along the lines of "you can't publish by yourself (x time) after being published in WSJ"? I mean we all know that the creators, unlike in say the american comic industry, hold the rights to their IPs.

Don't get me wrong, I love WSJ just as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see a canceled author continue their series online or something and become a worldwide hit haha

Who's gonna print all the volumes and make all the merch to make it a worldwide hit?

Also notice that the copyright for most series reads "Author's name/SHUEISHA Inc."

 

[CarrierA]

Does anyone know for sure Shueisha metric in qunaitfying Circulation numbers? sometimes they publish japan's only and sometimes worldwide.

it's also unknown if they count Spin-offs or novels in the number. but i've seen people claim otherwise.

 

[susanoo13]

Psyren Is definitely the one that came in the wrong time.

Yup, definitely. And I hope many in Japan share your sentiments about it. Iwashiro is the author I want to see succeeding the most and if Psyren would have come out in either 2006-2007 or 2015-2017 it would have gotten an anime and been much bigger.

 

[animeexpert]

Actually, another benefit of being on jump+ is that chapters are free (at least for limited time), which helps to expose the manga to more people

For example, i think a manga like Dandadan would have had a much tougher time in Jump, since it has the same "great art, serviceable writing" as phantom seer had, and it would also had to compete with JJK and other more successful mangas of the same genre, but thanks to social media, it attracted a lot of people to the point that it's considered already a hit, at least in view numbers

Also, i think that an artist with the skill of matsura would probably attract a lot of readers, at least to see the pretty drawings, especially if it is for free

Obviously, that's just my personal opinion, it might as well fail for all that i know

or he should do power fantasy since that sub genre is all about pretty art anyway lol

--- Double Post Merged, Jul 4, 2021, Original Post Date: Jul 4, 2021 ---

All this makes me wonder.. Is something preventing the authors from publishing themselves?
They already have an established audience online and the manga was selling...
Like do you think there is something in their contract along the lines of "you can't publish by yourself (x time) after being published in WSJ"? I mean we all know that the creators, unlike in say the american comic industry, hold the rights to their IPs.

Don't get me wrong, I love WSJ just as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see a canceled author continue their series online or something and become a worldwide hit haha

There are mangakas outside jump that did it online i know a youtuber mangaka that do it in patreon (Japan are very supportive if they like something since, welp I mean they have enough money to waste right kek).

online publishing mangakas for example:

Senpai ga Uzai Kouhai no Hanashi

I don't know what my sister friend is thinking - (shortly got dmed for an official serlization in an magazine)

Taishou Otome Otogibanashi also got shortly an serlization in an magazine (also getting an anime)

 

[Pietro]

That'a

All this makes me wonder.. Is something preventing the authors from publishing themselves?
They already have an established audience online and the manga was selling...
Like do you think there is something in their contract along the lines of "you can't publish by yourself (x time) after being published in WSJ"? I mean we all know that the creators, unlike in say the american comic industry, hold the rights to their IPs.

Don't get me wrong, I love WSJ just as much as the next guy, but I'd love to see a canceled author continue their series online or something and become a worldwide hit haha

That's called doujinshi, the cost are very high and the number of print per volume are few Unless you are a million copies seller, that would be a bit hard...

 

[banks869]

I don't know if this indicates good sales but Yozakura Family and Elusive Samurai are out of stock on Amazon Jap, so I guess that's good news! Phantom Seer is also almost out of stock.