Mag Talk Weekly Shounen Jump [2009] - Discussion & TOC Talk

[Rejuvenation]

well most of my hate is focused on reborn doing well at the moment, so i won't whale on bleach, it earned it's status, it's just resting unfairly with it despite being so much worse now.

but reborn...... it earned being pretty cool (6 volumes of hit n miss gags? check! two decent battle arcs? check!) but now it's doing just as well with the lame future arc, which is just horrible... angst angst angst

Reborn and Bleach are basically in the same boat imo. Reborn's Future arc has been pretty bad since Melone base. Bleach has been pretty bad after Soul Society.

Ok well Bleach might have more bad chapters than Reborn atm but both could definitely use some improvements.

I may be naive, but I could not care less how well To-Love sales. Money is not everything (I guess Shueisha disagrees). The people purchasing Jump are obviously expressing their distaste for it, and it's taking up space that could be used for something better that sales well AND does not bomb in the TOC every week. Plus, it's a waste of Yabuki-sensei's talents.

I would not care if Toriko was in 4th place constantly. Bleach has been around for years and established itself as one of the top series around and here comes this new manga, barely three volumes long, beating it every week...it ticks me off.

lol Shueisha definitely disagrees. Plenty of Jump stories like Bleach do not stay in the magazine because of the story quality but because of the popularity in sales and ToC.

I guess Kubo can take it as a hint to step his game up so there aren't any more manga that come along to knock Bleach out of the highest tier.

Besides Toriko does deserve the rankings its been getting.

it's about gaining food really. it's an action manga. one of the best in recent memory too!

basically torikos a food hunter dude who wants to make the perfect menu, and stuff goes down as it goes along. it's awesome in every way, though the first few chapters were kinda bleh if you don't look at them as kinda satirical of the 80s overpowered types

Completely agree with you here.

 

[Koen]

Wow, Beezlebaby is a classic example of not judging a book by it's cover. It was fucking hilarious. I can't wait to read more.

Toriko is ingenious. There hasn't been a new manga with such a diverse world in such a long time. Every chapter just oozes creativity. Makes me kind of want to read Takeshi.

it's about gaining food really. it's an action manga. one of the best in recent memory too!

basically torikos a food hunter dude who wants to make the perfect menu, and stuff goes down as it goes along. it's awesome in every way, though the first few chapters were kinda bleh if you don't look at them as kinda satirical of the 80s overpowered types

I thirded to what these guys say

Toriko is really awesome. Toriko is the boomerang in your face when you judge the book by its cover as I did. It starts kinda slow but as soon as you get attracted to the story, the world, etc then it becomes pretty addictive. The main genre is action but toriko isn't on the other hand the generic action shounen like naruto, bleach, reborn, d.g-m and psyren.

You never fall in a hole of brainless entertainment (*cough* bleach *cough* but not always a negative element: *cough* bleach *cough*). Comedy, great convos, etc makes the action more pleasant as it should be (maybe one of the biggest black holes of generic action shounen)

Beelzebub is hilarious. I liked the first chapter a lot but we need confirmation.

 

[Digital_Eon]

(DGM isn't really a generic action shounen. <_< People are always saying that, and I'm just of the opinion that it doesn't really have a set genre at the moment. In a bad way. Didn't it hit the bottom of the ToC during an action arc?)

I've always been a bit put off from Toriko because of the art. Granted, I haven't read it, but it matters, and... how does the art work for it? Obviously, Jump readers would say otherwise (I'm iffy on OP's, too - not that it's bad, I just don't care for it), but... Like, it's that great? It sounds like a parody, from what you guys are saying.

 

[Maxy Barnard]

it kinda flip flops. there are moments that can only be appreciated as a satire on action manga from the 80s, and then it's a brilliant action manga at the same time... it's hard to place. and the art works for it on that very premise, as it's well suited to the 80s style with a peppering of a modern action look aswell, especially with the awesome creature designs (sent in kinnikuman style now aswell, 80s stylings continue)

 

[GARusashi]

I don't know about you guys, but I find D Gray Man to be incredibly hard to understand because of the strange art, especially during the Ark arc.

 

[Galactic Tomahawk]

It's been easier to follow lately but I had the same problem for a while. The art got way too complicated for it's own good.

Though I generally like the series more than a lot of the other higher ranking Jump titles.

 

[Sexy Randal 105]

DGrayman is totally generic, but the gorgeous art makes up for it. I love generic shonen anyway.

 

[Digital_Eon]

Ah, so I should read some 80s action series before reading Toriko. :3

Action scenes are not Hoshino's forte. Personally, I think DGM is much more plot-based... it's hardly a piece of brilliance, but it's more complex than many other series and it drives the series. Enemies aren't always defeated in battles, the characters get their butts kicked fairly often (and not in the pre-power-up way), and even the one vaguely tournament-ish arc ended in plot, not an epic battle with... well, anyone.

I think if it was an action series (as opposed to a series with action), it would either be more successful on the ToC or it would be dead by now. The fact that the readers make it go all over the place in unpredictable ways speaks to the lack of clear genre for it, I think. And while that may be cool, it's not coming out very well in the series.

(Yeah, if anything, it's action, but it's not really that much like, say... Naruto, much less Bleach and Reborn.)

And that's my long DGM post of the... day. ^^;;

edited: I honestly don't see how it's generic. It's like it's trying to be generic right now, but I haven't read a single series that it really reminds me of. It's just... weird. Inconsistent.

 

[Sexy Randal 105]

DGM is a lot like Bleach but with more creativity, way better art, a plot and Akuma instead of Hollows.

 

[DeidaraGrimmjow]

lol Shueisha definitely disagrees. Plenty of Jump stories like Bleach do not stay in the magazine because of the story quality but because of the popularity in sales and ToC.

But wouldn't high sales AND popularity in the TOC indicate at least some sort of "quality?" Everyone has their own opinions, but in the Jump world, the concept of "Majority Rules" rules at least in terms of survival and popularity. I mean, I don't like Toriko but I'm forced to respect it as a quality manga, even if I don't think so myself.

 

[Digital_Eon]

DGM is a lot like Bleach but with more creativity, way better art, a plot and Akuma instead of Hollows.

I respectfully disagree. That's only on the surface, really.

For one, DGM doesn't have a massive cast, and relatively few of its cast are actually capable of fighting. You'd never see any of the styles of arcs as in Bleach. Except maybe the Ark arc... which just felt weird compared to the rest of the series.

For another, it actually doesn't have the big overarching arcs (unless you want to count volumes 4-...14 or 15... which was so subdivided that fans talk about the arcs WITHIN that).

Yes, on the surface, DGM is a lot like Bleach. I think that's what Hoshino was going for, in a way. But the execution is totally different, maybe due to the fact that it actually has a plot. A lot of it is just the way Hoshino writes it, though. Not that it's a good thing, again, but Bleach is the last series I would compare to DGM in terms of the plot execution.

 

[Maxy Barnard]

volumes 10 to..... i guess the zombie arc had kidna lame art, but it's looked a lot more like it should since then... i've forgotten my point... yeah the plots the main great thing because the art can sometimes change for the worse

 

[Galactic Tomahawk]

But wouldn't high sales AND popularity in the TOC indicate at least some sort of "quality?" Everyone has their own opinions, but in the Jump world, the concept of "Majority Rules" rules at least in terms of survival and popularity. I mean, I don't like Toriko but I'm forced to respect it as a quality manga, even if I don't think so myself.

It could mean that the series appeals to a particular audience but popularity is rarely a good indicator for quality.

 

[Onomatopoeia]

DGrayman is totally generic, but the gorgeous art makes up for it. I love generic shonen anyway.

While I don't consider D.Grayman all that generic. I still totally agree with you, I enjoy reading completely generic Shonen like Veritas, mainly because of the excellent art.

 

[DeidaraGrimmjow]

Veritas is a manhwa, so could you really classify it as a shonen? (I agree with you, although I read "generic shonen" because I like them in general).

 

[Sexy Randal 105]

Oh, I forgot a huge one. The tone in a LOT different. DGM has a a few good characters instead of a ton of okay ones like Bleach too.

On another note, I'm recently sad to see Bokkesan so low. The last chapter was actually pretty good. They seem to be setting up an arc of some kind. WOW ACTUAL PLOT! XD

 

[Kaiten]

DGM is closer to Full Metal Alchemist (I say closer but it's not anywhere near as good) then it is to Bleach. Occasionally Hoshino - sensei tosses in a generic Jump fight, but then redeems herself with something amazing. Lenalee and the end of the Level 4 arc would be a good example. The Allen back story arc after the zombie arc is another. Neither Bleach nor Naruto would ever even attempt anything like chapters 165 - 171.

 

[Onomatopoeia]

Veritas is a manhwa, so could you really classify it as a shonen? (I agree with you, although I read "generic shonen" because I like them in general).

It's got generic Shonen elements by the bucketload, though.

So yes I'd classify it as that.

 

[Kaiten]

Did I mention I loved Beelzebub? First new series of 2009 I really like. It's original (and strange) enough that it could be big.

 

[Rejuvenation]

But wouldn't high sales AND popularity in the TOC indicate at least some sort of "quality?" Everyone has their own opinions, but in the Jump world, the concept of "Majority Rules" rules at least in terms of survival and popularity. I mean, I don't like Toriko but I'm forced to respect it as a quality manga, even if I don't think so myself.

Something that sells a lot and gets ranked highly by fans doesn't equate quality. I could use the Britney Spears of 7 years ago to get that point across.

If Majority rules in the Jump World wouldn't that mean the number of people buying To Love are outnumbering the people who are ranking it? I'm just saying that since the story has been in the bottom 5 for months without cancellation.

Although I do think that it might get pushed to be wrapped up soon depending on if new series start to tank or not.

DGM is closer to Full Metal Alchemist (I say closer but it's not anywhere near as good) then it is to Bleach. Occasionally Hoshino - sensei tosses in a generic Jump fight, but then redeems herself with something amazing. Lenalee and the end of the Level 4 arc would be a good example. The Allen back story arc after the zombie arc is another. Neither Bleach nor Naruto would ever even attempt anything like chapters 165 - 171.

I've always felt that DGM was more of a light FMA more than anything else. I do agree with many of the points you have made.

My only problem is just that the art can be all over the place at times which makes it harder to follow at some points. Oh, and crappy arcs like the current and infection ones. >.>