Discussion Who is stronger than Luffy?

matzik1212

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thank you for the reply but not being rude please help me to find the chapter where zoro defeated a VA

I think you are talking about T-BONE - http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/T-Bone he is a captain not a VA if I am wrong correct



bart boy's df works in his favour thus he could have won due to maynard's impatience to find out the weak spot
Someone already pointed out my mistake :) And I already replied admitting it was my bad . You should read all the pots before bringing back the already solved puzzle
 

KingOfNight

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For what we have seen, a lot of VA are only around pre-timeskip supernova level. A current luffy , sanji or zoro would simply trash most of them. If Bartolomeo can do it, no reason for our monster trio not to do it.
I don't think all VA are at the same level. For example : Momonga and Onigumo seem to be quite fearsome, while in comparison, Smoker and Vergo seem petty before them. There's also Garp, who's (or was?) much more powerful than any VA and maybe some Admirals. You could say that he was supposed to be promoted but that doesn't change the fact that he's (was?) still a VA.
 

zelllogan

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That's why I said a "lot" & not "all". But aside from Garp, no VA had an interesting background or story importance yet. VA are just used as stepping stones to assess the strength of the opponents. VA represent just nothing in One piece.

- the 4 VA in Enies Lobby were not able to stop Luffy ... & they were almost scared by Lucci. They didn't move a finger & they let the two beasts (lucci-luffy) fighting each other.
- VA Lacroix was easily beaten by Oars Jr
- VA Ronse was easily beaten by WhiteBeard
- VA John Giant was easily beaten by WhiteBeard
- VA Momonga had to stab himself in front of Hancock
- VA Momonga was stopped by Do Flamingo
- Vergo was beaten by post-time skip Law and also did a quick draw against sanji.
- A VA was trashed by Bartolomeo


You can see the patern here ... And to see a VA beating someone relevant in One Piece ... well there was just no VA able to do that aside from Garp. That's a fact. The biggest achievement from a VA who is not Garp was to caught Marco off-guard. Vergo wasn't too bad either but that's it. In 700 chapters, that's it.

I'm not saying there aren't strong, very strong VA but so far in the manga, I'm still waiting for a VA to impress me. Based on facts alone, VA are just disappointing. The impressive marines so far were Magellan, Garp, Sentomaru & the amirals.

To finish, VA is just a rank for very experienced marines. IF Oda want me to take a VA seriously, give me a very young VA.
 
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Ninomiya

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That's why I said a "lot" & not "all". But aside from Garp, no VA had an interesting background or story importance yet. VA are just used as stepping stones to assess the strength of the opponents. VA represent just nothing in One piece.

- the 4 VA in Enies Lobby were not able to stop Luffy ... & they were almost scared by Lucci. They didn't move a finger & they let the two beasts (lucci-luffy) fighting each other.
No.
Firstly, ALL VA's are said to have Haki,
There were 5 VA in Enies Lobby, and you need to read the manga urgently.
The VA's didn't even fight so this is nonsense. They allowed CP9 to finish the job. All they were doing was destroying the island.
Have you forgotten the BusterCall in Ohara? Aokiji and Sakaizuki didn't jump onto the island and engage in combat.

I'll tell you this, since Onigumo effortlessly caught Marco in mid-flight, and ALL VA's have Haki, Onigumo would have beaten Luffy at Enies Lobby, also Luffy was too tired to even move after the fight with Lucci so had the VA's known that, they could have easily jumped inside and killed him.

You watched the anime. In the manga, only ONE VA comments on Lucci's ability, the rest just relax since their job was only to destroy the island. Had they got involved Luffy would have died.

The others didn't give a damn about Lucci so you shouldn't say they were afraid. Re-read the chapter and you'll understand no VA was actualy "scared" of Lucci.
It was just respect.

Momongo and Dalmatian completely outclassed Luffy when they met in him in the war.

- VA Lacroix was easily beaten by Oars Jr
- VA Ronse was easily beaten by WhiteBeard
- VA John Giant was easily beaten by WhiteBeard
This is just ridiculous. Oars Jr. is a got damn tank. The descendant of Oars who completely wrecked the SH's and tons of others.
Since when was losing to WB an insult?
They took several critical genuine quake hits to them.
You're joking if you think losing to WB means you're unimpressive.

Remember how WB took on Sakaizuki and knocked him elsewhere. Sakaizuki at no point looked like he was going to win against WB.
So this is an invalid point.

You can see the patern here ... And to see a VA beating someone relevant in One Piece ... well there was just no VA able to do that aside from Garp. That's a fact. The biggest achievement from a VA who is not Garp was to caught Marco off-guard. Vergo wasn't too bad either but that's it. In 700 chapters, that's it.

I'm not saying there aren't strong, very strong VA but so far in the manga, I'm still waiting for a VA to impress me. Based on facts alone, VA are just disappointing. The impressive marines so far were Magellan, Garp, Sentomaru & the amirals.

To finish, VA is just a rank for very experienced marines. IF Oda want me to take a VA seriously, give me a very young VA.
Firstly, Magellan isn't even a Marine, he works for the WG but not through the Navy.
Sentomaru has only shown Haki, something that the VA's have. There is zero evidence to assume Sentomaru is any stronger than the VA's.
First of all, Vergo beat Smoker, so unless you want to tell me Smoker is really weak as you say VA's are...

Had the war not been so hectic, Momonga would have dispatched of Luffy right here.

X Drake only had the rank of Rear-Admiral and he was pretty strong but clearly not enough to be a VA.
Honestly, you're really wrong for saying the VA's are weak.

How would a Young VA make a difference?
In fact, that's the key to showing how difficult it is to be a VA or Admiral, nobody when they are so young is strong enough to attain the rank.
 

Ninja_Pirate

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No.


How would a Young VA make a difference?
In fact, that's the key to showing how difficult it is to be a VA or Admiral, nobody when they are so young is strong enough to attain the rank.
That is the reason young VA sounds cool... There are young pirates who are stronger than VA :) ... But I guess since its government we are talking about.. it works not solely on strength but also on experience... :)
 

Azuma

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We'll probably soon see a young VA in the form of Coby. He has already unlocked Haki and has probably become significantly stronger. It wouldn't surprise me if he's now a rear-admiral, depending on how much stronger Oda feels like making him.
 

Jorge D. Dragon

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If I'm not mistaken, it was stated in a thread about the last OP movie that Coby is now a Captain like Tashigi, so he is quite far from being Vice Admiral.
 
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Ninja_Pirate

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We'll probably soon see a young VA in the form of Coby. He has already unlocked Haki and has probably become significantly stronger. It wouldn't surprise me if he's now a rear-admiral, depending on how much stronger Oda feels like making him.
Considering Sentomaru joined as rear admiral (who pawned pre time skip luffy),,, I have doubts that Coby will join as Rear Admiral... I think it can be concluded that marine ranks cannot be achieved by strength only .... Experience matters,,, :)
 

vagabond87

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Considering Sentomaru joined as rear admiral (who pawned pre time skip luffy),,, I have doubts that Coby will join as Rear Admiral... I think it can be concluded that marine ranks cannot be achieved by strength only .... Experience matters,,, :)
Coby is confirmed to be Capitan after time skip. Please do some research people if you want to discuss.
And I would like to get to see where it was said that Sentomaru joined as rear admiral :3c links please:3c
BTW I would say that Sentomaru being one of strong Vice Admirals would fit for me really nice
 
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Ninja_Pirate

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Coby is confirmed to be Capitan after time skip. Please do some research people if you want to discuss.
And I would like to get to see where it was said that Sentomaru joined as rear admiral :3c links please:3c
BTW I would say that Sentomaru being one of strong Vice Admirals would fit for me really nice
I guess both the things I commented/quoted turned out to be wrong..lol... Coby is a captain... but again that is told in One piece volume 1000 (have not gone through that yet) and not in regular manga (or may be SBS- cant see it till SBS vol 68) .. For Sentomaru..he said marine officer dont know why i remembered him saying rear admiral... My bad..oops
 
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TheLuffySmile

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Coby is confirmed to be Capitan after time skip. Please do some research people if you want to discuss.
And I would like to get to see where it was said that Sentomaru joined as rear admiral :3c links please:3c
BTW I would say that Sentomaru being one of strong Vice Admirals would fit for me really nice
Can you please link to where it says that Coby is a captain? (in the manga)
 
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vagabond87

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Can you please link to where it says that Coby is a captain? (in the manga)
http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Coby
Dig this- its info from One Piece voulme 1000(that is canon) + some info from anime episode that showed Coby after time skip(not canon yet Cobys design and power most probably is same as it will be shown in the manga). Sorry but I wont give you exact page of volume 1000, you must be stisfied with what I gave..
@Ninja_ Pirate- sorry for sounding harsh I really like when we share our thoughts here at same time keeping eye to some small facts/details that overally matter in greater scope of this manga:)
 

Ninomiya

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That is the reason young VA sounds cool... There are young pirates who are stronger than VA :) ... But I guess since its government we are talking about.. it works not solely on strength but also on experience... :)
Tell me a young Marine besides Sentomaru that has been strong so far in the series?
Its because besides those who don't wish to be good people but instead live for their own selfish dream, there are few young marines that are strong.

I don't see why a Young VA makes a difference. You guys have all changed the subject for an empty discussion.
On average in this series, the Elderly and Middle Age people kick the ass of the Youth.

Monster trio, Law, Kid, Bonney, Hawkins, Apoo cannot compare to Admirals, Rayleigh, Yonkou, WB Commanders, Dragon, Garp, Sengoku, Doflamingo, Mihawk,
The Middle Age and Elderly will kick the ass of most youth.
Nobody who can compete for the rank of strongest in the series right now, is in their youth so its a nonsensical idea.

---------- Post added at 07:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------

Considering Sentomaru joined as rear admiral (who pawned pre time skip luffy),,, I have doubts that Coby will join as Rear Admiral... I think it can be concluded that marine ranks cannot be achieved by strength only .... Experience matters,,, :)
Is Sentomaru's rank of Rear Admiral confirmed?
It is by experience up until about Rear Admiral to Vice Admiral.
You cannot be VA without Haki. That statement that all VA's are weak was nonsense.
 

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If I'm not mistaken, it was stated in a thread about the last OP movie that Coby is now a Captain like Tashigi, so he is quite far from being Vice Admiral.
well, in rank he would obviously be inferior to a VA however strength is a different matter altogether. 2 years can make a huge difference for people and we know that coby was at least talented enough to awaken haki on his own. Even if coby does not match up to a VA nowadays his strength could easily exceed that of a mere captain. By now coby should have mastered haki considering everything. He should be well stronger than what most supernova were 2 years ago considering that just matching pre time skip luffy would mean coby at the moment has irrelevant strength.
 
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Ninja_Pirate

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Tell me a young Marine besides Sentomaru that has been strong so far in the series?
Its because besides those who don't wish to be good people but instead live for their own selfish dream, there are few young marines that are strong.

I don't see why a Young VA makes a difference. You guys have all changed the subject for an empty discussion.
On average in this series, the Elderly and Middle Age people kick the ass of the Youth.
There is a reason why there is no young VA… Marine is an organisation and joining it is followed by giving a certain rank (cadet for youngsters I guess) and then training…. In training they are trained in an organised way from 1 level to another… and there is no jumps… like we do in school… And that kind of things are not applicable for pirate .. they can train however and whatever pace they want to .. they are not limited by laws of any organisation… no boundations…

No one is saying that young people can equate to middle aged younkous or admirals… The point was that the young pirates exist who are stronger than Vice admirals who are middle aged or old… that means pirates growth is faster than marines…

VAs are obviously stronger than lot of people and that's y it is a statement to be made for Luffy, or other supernovas or Barto who can trash them …

---------- Post added at 10:48 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:45 AM ----------

@Ninja_ Pirate- sorry for sounding harsh I really like when we share our thoughts here at same time keeping eye to some small facts/details that overally matter in greater scope of this manga:)
Was it harsh.. I thought you are being sarcastic.. I don't mind .. because I like doing that too when I catch someone .. :p .. I did search for sentomaru’s rear admiral status as I remembered it that way (don’t know why).. If I would have find out that to be true… my statements were ready for you pal… ;)
 

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Well, when we last saw Coby (before timeskip) he was even more useless than any of weak Trio from Mugivaras, so I seriously doubt that after just two years he would grow tha much.
When I learned about Coby's new rank I was actually surprised, since I believe it's too much for him. I seriously doubt he is stronger than minimum Captain.
 

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Tell me a young Marine besides Sentomaru that has been strong so far in the series?
Its because besides those who don't wish to be good people but instead live for their own selfish dream, there are few young marines that are strong.

I don't see why a Young VA makes a difference. You guys have all changed the subject for an empty discussion.
On average in this series, the Elderly and Middle Age people kick the ass of the Youth.

Monster trio, Law, Kid, Bonney, Hawkins, Apoo cannot compare to Admirals, Rayleigh, Yonkou, WB Commanders, Dragon, Garp, Sengoku, Doflamingo, Mihawk,
The Middle Age and Elderly will kick the ass of most youth.
Nobody who can compete for the rank of strongest in the series right now, is in their youth so its a nonsensical idea.

---------- Post added at 07:24 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:20 PM ----------


Is Sentomaru's rank of Rear Admiral confirmed?
It is by experience up until about Rear Admiral to Vice Admiral.
You cannot be VA without Haki. That statement that all VA's are weak was nonsense.
I'd classify Smoker as somewhat young.
 

Jorge D. Dragon

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Young? If I'm not mistaken he is 36 years old... So I don't know if he can be called young. In my opinion he should be middle-aged at least.
 

Ninomiya

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I'd classify Smoker as somewhat young.
How the hell is a 36 year old not in the Middle Age category in your mind lol?
Luffy is 19. THAT is young. He is almost half Smoker's age. Age 34 and below can be Youth.
Anything older is middle age. 36 year olds don't got to the same parties as 19 year olds. Completely different age groups lol.
 

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Well, when we last saw Coby (before timeskip) he was even more useless than any of weak Trio from Mugivaras, so I seriously doubt that after just two years he would grow tha much.
When I learned about Coby's new rank I was actually surprised, since I believe it's too much for him. I seriously doubt he is stronger than minimum Captain.
What am I reading here? Coby 1.0 was a nothing, someone lower than fodder. Than some months later, under the tutelage of Garp he grew immensely and was even able to start an attack on Luffy, who at that point had to deal with some of the toughest people in Paradise. Not saying that they had a chance at winning at W7, but to say that they couldn't grow greatly within two more years is idiotic and I'm sure you would agree with that. Especially since Luffy and crew grew thousands of percent in strength during their short journey until their seperation.

Smoker is an "older" man, no matter how I look at it. Much older and it's time for a slow retirement and lot's of grey hair, if he hadn't had that hair color already. Aside from Tsuru, Garp, Kong and Sengoku, I can't remember any particular marine in that age group.
 
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