Character Will Yukimura leave??

[Brandnewkid]

By all accounts illusionless Niou is a very weak player.

No way. By all accounts, Nioh is an incredibly great player. Don't forget that before Illusion, Nioh was a National-leveled player who's - Tricky Doubles pranks/skills aside - was able to dominate half of a whole match with the Gentleman's Laser using his non-dominant hand. At that point in the series, only Ryoma would be skilled enough to do something as serious as that. That's a pretty big deal. Vanilla!Nioh is nothing to sneeze at, for sure.

Yukimura is the probably the strongest player in the series.. why take him out?

You answered your own question.

I think Yukimura will always beat Atobe regardless of the AK or not.. ^__^

I agree. Yukimura is pretty much the Ryoma-tier guy of Rikkai, while Sanada is the Tezuka-tier guy. Atobe is Tezuka-tier. Yukimura would cream him.

 

[Ninomiya]

Synchro improves coordination but it does not improve your indiivdual skill. When the Golden Pair first used it, Kikumaru stopped the game when Oishi can no longer hit the ball. That means they'd have still lost the game even in synchro because one of the two players can no longer play. Note that Synchro does not allow either of them to return a serve neither of them can return normally in the same game. In Atobe's his case, his synchro partner cannot physically play the game. He can feed him vision/weakness info but ultimately it's still 1on2. Atobe at the very least have to be able to return all the shots by himself in a 1on2 because Niou sure isn't going to be able to help him there.

Irrelevant.
I'll tell you this once. Atobe only beat guys with better stats than him in a 2 VS 1, BECAUSE of Synchro.
Without Synchro, as we were shown, Ochi/Mouri were just gonna eat him alive, and its retarded to believe otherwise.

but if you're talking about rallying, you can't beat Atobe Kingdom unless you've something that blocks Atobe's vision.

???
Still wrong dude.
Atobe got outrallied by Irie due to his injury and couldn't hit AK anymore.
This is getting out of hand Phantron. Atobe's AK is rightfully limited.

 

[jimtors]

ATobe Kingdom is only giving him vision. But to hit the blind spot poses another degree of difficulty. WHich means that it is not 100% that he can hit the blind spot every time he sees it..

 

[Hardy]

In PoT, everyone that has at least = 3 in tech has perfect aim. Atobe, for example, would never miss a blind spot if the opponent doesn't force him to do so (like Echizen with his mini Tezuka Zone).

I do believe that, if there was a match between the 2, Yukimura would win, simply because he's better, not because Atobe might miss some shots.

 

[-Ken-]

I think Yips won't kick in due to the condition that is given in the manga, and since Yukimura doesn't show that he can dislocate his shoulder and locate it back yet, I think Atobe winning is a very real chance.

 

[floman]

In PoT, everyone that has at least = 3 in tech has perfect aim. Atobe, for example, would never miss a blind spot if the opponent doesn't force him to do so (like Echizen with his mini Tezuka Zone).

I do believe that, if there was a match between the 2, Yukimura would win, simply because he's better, not because Atobe might miss some shots.

I agree that basically a 3 means perfect aim, but it means perfect aim on a chance ball or one that you have time to set your feet for. irie made him run with drop shots and lobs and he only had time to reach the shots and not aim them. If Yukimura forces Atobe to run from corner to corner and front to back without giving him time to truly aim his shots the Yips will set in.

 

[-Ken-]

Atobe does have 6 in his tech, you know. And if Irie, who got mad high tech, can't prevent Atobe Kingdom before Atobe's injuries, I don't see Yukimura doing it either.

From what we've seen, Atobe been using AK just fine before his injuries. His match with Ochi and Mouri is doubles. So he have to look for blind spot for 2 people that have to also be matching. Or else it's pointless. And once he gain an extra eye from Niou, he's doing that pretty ok.

 

[Hardy]

I agree that basically a 3 means perfect aim, but it means perfect aim on a chance ball or one that you have time to set your feet for. irie made him run with drop shots and lobs and he only had time to reach the shots and not aim them. If Yukimura forces Atobe to run from corner to corner and front to back without giving him time to truly aim his shots the Yips will set in.

Yeah, that's basically what I said but with different words.

---------- Post added at 12:33 AM ---------- Previous post was at 12:32 AM ----------

Atobe does have 6 in his tech, you know. And if Irie, who got mad high tech, can't prevent Atobe Kingdom before Atobe's injuries, I don't see Yukimura doing it either.

From what we've seen, Atobe been using AK just fine before his injuries. His match with Ochi and Mouri is doubles. So he have to look for blind spot for 2 people that have to also be matching. Or else it's pointless. And once he gain an extra eye from Niou, he's doing that pretty ok.

I would like to know what would had happenned if Atobe didn't get injured :/

 

[-Ken-]

Yeah, but that didn't happen. We might see Irie got serious like he did with Akiba. Or Irie might just give up the win. Irie's the clown of the court.

 

[Hardy]

So you're saying that Irie was only superior because Atobe got injured? IMO Irie hasn't played his best yet.

 

[-Ken-]

I didnt say that at all.

 

[Hardy]

Ok, to reply to both threads.

The only 3 characters we have ? data are 3 mysterious characters that Konomi wants to keep hyped till the end. For some reason, Tanegashima, Irie, Tezuka, Fuji and a huge etc of "unmeasurablle characters" have numbers in their stats, but those 3 don't. That's because the characters' stats shown and their descriptions are all Konomi, not Kurobe.

Tezuka HAS better stats than Fuji. Irie HAS all that tech (so, saying that he had a lot of tech when Atobe used AK -and therefore no other character would stop AK- is kinda irrelevant, as we don't know how much of his tech Irie was using so far).

 

[-Ken-]

It's actually Kurobe stats, describe by Kurobe. Look at stats like Duke. there's the word "I". And for many other characters, there are notes how the characters should train to improve themselves. They are stats made by Konomi, since Konomi is the one that made Kurobe. But that doesn't mean that in the manga world, they are stats not made by Kurobe. So, your point is invalid, since the comment is written by someone in the manga.

 

[Kaoz]

Weren't you the one who said that Konomi will provide information when necessary when we talked about results from off-screen matches? This is no different, unless Konomi gives us a reason to doubt the stats in the comments, there is no reason not to accept them as reality.

 

[-Ken-]

Yes, and I'll stand by that. In this case, Konomi does give us a reason to doubt the stats in comment of the characters that was say to be not measurable by data. By, you know, saying that.

 

[Kaoz]

Except he doesn't say that in these stats at all. Inui or Mizuki being unable to collect Fuji's data doesn't mean nobody is able to.

 

[-Ken-]

Well, Fuji also shown to hide his data before in the past. Mizuki have all the wrong data on him. And who's to say the coach have the right data? Mizuki was confident he have it right that time too. And Inui was also confident that he got Fuji data only got told, nope. In this case, there is a reason to doubt the data. Especially when it's somethings that the manga mention times and times and times again.

I also already given example of times that coach been wrong with stats with Atobe mental, which they admit is higher than they thought it was.

In summary, this is different than last time because

1. There is a reason in the manga shown to particularly doubt Fuji stats. There is a lot of evidences supporting that throughout the entire manga
2. There is times that coach been wrong on stats before. (This is similar to #1 point below.)

Last time,

1. Evidence that shows that score may not be representing the characters skill is present.
2. There is a lack of evidence on the individual match in question. Of why the match score should be doubt at all. This is the key and the important point.

For me to doubt some evidence, both part of this argument must be present and valid. It is also very important that it's actually back up with some canon manga material, whether it's manga, pair puri, or databook. Which are present in this case. I can try to find the page for you. But I think majority of the poster remember that those pages exist already. But let me know.

Even if I'll give it to you that Fuji stat is truly like that, Fuji still have closed eyes, which can consider to be a tech. And Fuji rally does get better when he use that. That could potentially close the gap between Tezuka and Fuji in stats. So it's not a certainty that Tezuka with PoP ban can beat Fuji, when it's 3 set match.

 

[Ninomiya]

Atobe does have 6 in his tech, you know. And if Irie, who got mad high tech, can't prevent Atobe Kingdom before Atobe's injuries, I don't see Yukimura doing it either.

Are you assuming Irie can't prevent AK?
We don't have enough to assume this anymore since we can't confirm the level of Technique in which Irie was trolling at.
It could have been from any from 3.5 to like... 5 or 5.5

 

[-Ken-]

Are you assuming Irie can't prevent AK?
We don't have enough to assume this anymore since we can't confirm the level of Technique in which Irie was trolling at.
It could have been from any from 3.5 to like... 5 or 5.5

Well, Atobe actually got 6 tech now. So I don't see someone pressuring another with exact same amount of tech point. So, from what we've seen, I don't think Irie can prevent it.

That's not to say that I think Irie is weaker than Atobe. He still have that serious self that he show Akiba. But I think if Irie would not use that self, and only stick to his 3rd court level when he play Atobe, Atobe can win. If Irie does turn serious, then all bets are off the window.

 

[Kaoz]

Well, Fuji also shown to hide his data before in the past. Mizuki have all the wrong data on him. And who's to say the coach have the right data? Mizuki was confident he have it right that time too. And Inui was also confident that he got Fuji data only got told, nope. In this case, there is a reason to doubt the data. Especially when it's somethings that the manga mention times and times and times again.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it actually hasn't been mentioned for a long time, has it? Wasn't the match against Mizuki the last time even (I don't remember it being mentioned after that)? When Fuji plays against Kirihara, Inui says he'd be able to collect Fuji's data at that point: http://www.mangareader.net/422-27115-2/prince-of-tennis/chapter-218.html

Of course he can evolve further in the next match he plays, but that holds true for everyone, so I don't think it's worth considering in our discussions.

1. Evidence that shows that score may not be representing the characters skill is present.
2. There is a lack of evidence on the individual match in question. Of why the match score should be doubt at all. This is the key and the important point.

Yeah, about that, I've been thinking about this one for a bit. If we're taking this line of thought to its conclusion, since we didn't see anything of the match in question and didn't hear of any moves used either, the result should be considered as a comparison between their stats, shouldn't it?

Furthermore if your argument is that Fuji's stats are incorrect because he hasn't faced a strong enough opponent to draw out all of his strength, shouldn't your Marui/Jackal comparison use Marui as baseline and raise Jackal to that level, not the other way around? After all, Marui faced No. 7 and 8 of the nation whereas Jackal hasn't even faced anyone in the top 20.

Even if I'll give it to you that Fuji stat is truly like that, Fuji still have closed eyes, which can consider to be a tech. And Fuji rally does get better when he use that. That could potentially close the gap between Tezuka and Fuji in stats. So it's not a certainty that Tezuka with PoP ban can beat Fuji, when it's 3 set match.

Closed Eyes is definitely considered to be a special move, yes. However, may I ask in exactly what ways you see his rallying improve in closed eyes?