Seinen xxxHolic by CLAMP

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

wata-chan, don't give up ur memories for taht idjiot R!syaoran!

I like you, I really do Too many people give up too much for his sake and he gets of scot free. . . *stops self from ranting helplessly for an hour or so*

R!Syaoran's heart was completed in Acid Tokyo remember (scene burned into my furious, heartbroken memory)? Also, was it his heart? The connection was through they eye and it has sometimes been described as a copy of his heart anyway. I don't think C!Sakura's wish would affect him it was in no way directed at him. I don't see Watanuki and C!Syaoran as parts of R!Syaoran, I see them as separate entities made from him. There's a big difference.

 

[DontWakeMeUp]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

I liked this chapter, even if it did seem a bit quick... It was painful to see that CCS!SxS were right there, and Watanuki didn't recognize them (not bodily). He's been through so much, I just want him to meet up with them again.

One thing, though: Why are they transparent?

edit//

And yes, R!Syaoran, C!Syaoran and Watanuki are definitely different people... But in... well, what's the word? Essence? Theory? (there's something better that I can't think of right now)they're right. It really doesn't bother me much when they say that R!Syaoran and Watanuki are "the same" or "closer than anyone else" or calling CCS!'s son the "real" one opposed to the clone, because, if you think about it, it's true. They're all different, with their own different hearts, feelings, etc., but C!Syaoran and Watanuki still have very close connections to R!Syaoran.
Yes, I know you all probably know this, but I just had to voice it. CLAMP's wording may not be to your favor, but it IS appropriate. I understand why a lot of you are still frustrated over that, but it really doesn't bother me. I like all of them the same.

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 176 Discussion/177 Prediction Thread

Yeah, doumeki is awesome. His deadpanness is just genius, and I love the way he interacts with Wata.

Though honestly the fact that RSyaoran gave us Watanuki and CSyaoran doesn't make him a more likeable person. Like, less likeable, if anything, because of how the dynamic works between him and the more awesome people. Though admittedly it does stop me from wishing he never existed at all.

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

It's not Clamp's wording. It's cnett128s interpretation of Clamp's wording and translation is always an imperfect science. We do not have or understand the orginial dialogue and should treat all quotes and words as guidelines. Nothing more. I'm a dialogue analysis hardout so that is one of the things that I find most frustrating about TRC.

 

[Flipper]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

I don't see Watanuki and C!Syaoran as parts of R!Syaoran, I see them as separate entities made from him. There's a big difference.

Exactly my view, and I think this gets overlooked as their existance orbits around R!Syaoran, and I don't want him stealing all the focus, *cough* attention-whore*cough* ^^

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

Flipper! I forgot to say welcome to the forum and I very much look forward to all our discussions together

 

[oralyon]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

I wonder... The 2 eggs are born the same way as Watanuki with Syaoran. One of the egg can hatch, but "nothing will be born" from the other. Could there be something linked beetween the difference of the 2 egg and the difference in Syaoran and Watanuki. I really can't see where that would lead and well it doesn't make much sense as a lot of things has born because of both Syaoran and Watanuki. So it's probably not relevant, I was just wondering.

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

I don't know what it means either. The eggs are pretty emphatically symbols of Watanuki and R!Syaoran though. Perhaps the egg will somehow be used to seal Watanuki's existence.

It's times like this that I start to wonder what the subtleties of the original Japanese wording are. . . Born in this context could refer to a direct hatching or events beginning as a consequence of the egg's existence. If the original wording has the same ambiguity that's interesting but if the original wording only means that nothing would hatch from the egg that's VERY different because Watanuki's existence could still be metaphorically born from the egg without it hatching. . .

 

[kurofaikitty]

Re: xxxHolic 176 Discussion/177 Prediction Thread

oh, buuuuuurrrnnnnn...... syaoran got burned.... bwehehe.... *air high five* but i do like him in the flash backs tho. the first chapter of that reeaaaaalllllyyyy long flash back sequence , the first panel when he's running up to yukko's shop, he looked so much like his dad i did a little "wwaaaahhh! how cute!" while reading it. i like him when he's little, and i liked him in infinity and tokyo, after that, meh.

 

[kurofaikitty]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

aww, i like u too tsubasaholic!
let's see.... it's nt that i see C!syao and watanuki as parts of real syaoran. i know andlove the fact that C!syaoran is completely different from the original. (thank god...) but i also know that the connection btwn syaoran and watanuki is stronger than "brothers" or seperate people. thye're not as seperate as we'd like to think. as we saw from when watanuki fell out the window, if syaoran's in danger, then watanuki will be also. and so, what happens to syaoran, god or bad, will happen to watanuki as well. and if it is inevitable that watanuki must "dissapear" as syaoran says, because of glass thoery and other things, then it will happen. (i'm not sure what i'm getting at...) it's just that, i'm not going to worry about yukko at the moment, she's chosen her path already. but watanuki is stil in very real danger. doumeki, to the rescue!!!!! yay! hehehehe... i found the best tsubasa/holic picture, it's if watauki and syaoran switched places
link
http://rokuri.deviantart.com/art/TRC-xXxholic-SWITCH-111732729

 

[Flipper]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

When Dômeki was first given the egg, Yuuko said that the egg had the power to withstand a rain that could destroy buildings. In Acid Tokyo the last standing buildings were protected by the power of the feather, which means that the egg must have some similar power, if not the same power. Although, then there'd be two feathers in the xxxholic world (one in mokona's earrings, although he's gone) and it seems like a stretch.

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

OK, the pic is quite hilarious I particularly like the blushing, mildly incompetent looking Syaoran

Watanuki and R!Syaoran are way closer that C! and R!Syaoran. That's one of the things I find interesting about the series. Also the almost Picture-of-Dorian-Gray-esque link between Watanuki an R!Syaoran. I think that part of Watanuki confirming his existence will be separating himself from this rather detrimental relationship with R!Syaoran. Perhaps the egg will be involved with that somehow. I honestly have no idea.

I have these mad moments of wondering if the egg C!Sakura found in Tokyo is the same egg that Doumeki had. I know it isn't, but I just had to get that out of my system.

 

[DontWakeMeUp]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

Tsubasaholic:
Okay, well, the way that you were phrasing things sounded like you were directly upset at CLAMP's wording. Thank you for clarifying.
I'm aware that translating is never perfect, and it's most likely that everyone's translations aren't exactly getting the wording that CLAMP may want, but it's enough. I mean, I think everyone knows that not everything is exact, word for word.
I always try to find as many translations as I can for the chapter though, and then translate it myself; that way, I can see all of the interpretations and perhaps figure out what makes the most sense. I get pretty picky with dialogue at times, too. >.>

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

You speak Japanese??!! OK, can you PLEASE go research the original wording used to describe the clones and the originals (do they use words with the same conotations as 'real' and 'fake'?) thoug hI think right now th most helpful thing you could do would be go check the connotations and secondary implications of the word Yuuko uses when she says 'nothing will be born from this egg'. I'm going to get my Japanese speaking friends onto it as well (all one of them). I think it's important to know EXACTLY what Yuuko is saying.

 

[ShirubiaLamperouge]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

Yea. That's why translations vaguely bug me. You can't get the exact implications of the phrase, and neither can the translator because they have no idea what CLAMP means by it. So they have to choose one possible meaning, and cut the rest. Which is annoying when you're obsessively theorizing, and need every scrap of evidence you can get.

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

Yeah. . . I'm going to get my Japanese studying friend to take certian words to her professors (she's at uni) to get as much information about them as I possibly can.

 

[aquamaryna]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

About the "born" stuff. I'm learning Japanese and so I'm only of minimal help, but it would seem that it is used only to refer to a physical birth.

The word used in this chapter (and probably before too, but I don't have access to Japanese scans from earlier) was 産まれない. I'm not entirely sure what the differences between the 生 and 産 kanji are. They both mean to be born, but it seems that the one used here (産) is used more for the literal birthing out of the mother, while the other (生) appears to be more ambiguous in meaning and can be used abstractly.

If your computer supports Japanese characters, you can do a ctrl-f of 産 at the following page.

http://www.csse.monash.edu.au/~jwb/cgi-bin/wwwjdic.cgi?1Q%C0%B8%A4%E0_0__

It has example sentences using the word うむ (with English translations). [There is only one instance I see of the 産 kanji used abstractly, and upon closer inspection this is actually used in a proverb whose literal meaning is a bit different than it's translated in the example sentence. In the proverb, it is still referring to a physical birth.]

Hope this helped even if only a little bit. ^^

---

I also wanted to say how much I completely heart this chapter. On page ten when we hear Sakura say her unbeatable spell, I was nearly in tears. It's so nice to hear Sakura say that again. I can't help but believe her when she does. ^^

 

[Tsubasaholic]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

If the word for born is the one that more precisely means hatched then perhaps the thing which will be born form the egg is Watanuki's future and not a bird. Eggs are symbols of beginning and potential. Thanks for that

 

[DontWakeMeUp]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

I'm only learning, at the moment, so I've only been trying to translate the later chapters. I know all of the hiragana and katakana, but not much kanji right now. My friend is getting tutored and then she helps me when I need it (she's usually the one I ask to clarify things). My Chinese speaking friends are a help with the kanji as well.
And I have this really good dictionary/translator that translates words to characters and vice-versa, either english or romaji.
I'm planning on taking some classes over the summer or something...



And I could check the whole real/fake wording if someone could possibly find a raw where they mention the two of them...?

---

産 is more in the literal sense of giving birth (umameru/san). うむ is umu, which is existence.

But from what my friends and I gathered, 生, alone, is used with food as "fresh" or "raw"... ._.
When used like 誕生, it means origin (tanjou/tanjiyou). 出生 refers to the production of something (shushou/shiyushiou), 生む is actually giving birth.

 

[Snowolf]

Re: xxxHolic 177 Discussion/178 Prediction Thread

A very moving and interesting chapter. I don't know what the dream world and Watanuki have in common- some "prophet bond" maybe- but as he delves more and more into the dream world, he's finding himself to be learning a lot more about himself and others. This was more of a transitioning chapter, but I really liked it. The part that moved me was when Watanuki said "Those people...I don't know them....but my hand, and body- I...I just know them somehow". The body remembers, but the heart cannot.

But I don't understand Sakura's words- "It will be alright"? Is she referring to the incident that is currently taking place in TRC world? Or is she just comforting a very tensed up Watanuki? She obviously recognizes him as her son...hmm.

Hopefully the next chapter Wata-kun finds where Yuuko-san is and can get/reach to her. I really hope they end up in the same spot, rather then never seeing one another. I really can't fathom how xxxHolic will end so soon, when Watanuki's character transformation is not complete yet, some loose plot holes are still yet to be tied up, and Yuuko's mysteries have yet to be revealed. Hopefully, it'll go longer than TRC.

And that egg is really bothering me. I'm hoping it "hatches" to a one-time use power that allows Watanuki to travel dimensions and see Yuuko-san and the rest of the TRC cast (hopefully Doumeki-kun travels along ). Thus, it won't hatch into "anything" but really a power? Like a little traveling thing?

Also, about Yuuko san in terms of the latest TRC chapters- Fei said that there was one person who also was severed along time dimensions, and now is free- this is Yuuko, obviously, as Sakura chan WAS saved from Syaoran, but does that mean she officially lives inside of time now, and has lost her powers/can die? I'm a Doctor Who fan and all, but this time reversal and alternate dimensions and outside-of-space-and-time concepts are baffling me.

Also, hi! I'm a new member to MH, and just wanted to say it's lovely to be a part of this discussion.