Discussion Yamato’s Gender

[fcToho]

At the moment (important!) I think if you are refering to Yamato as "he" you should also do him the honor to refer to him as "Oden" (or Oden the 2nd or whatever). Because that is the important angle for him at the moment, not the gender.

One thing that is also relevant in my eyes is that we, as readers, are not part of the One Piece world. We have the birds view and the privilege to have all informations like introduction boxes, flash backs, interviews and so on.

For me at the moment Yamato is still a "she" but that can easily change. If I should make a guess, I would say that at the end of the arc Yamato will be called "Yamato" again.

 

[Grandmaster Woro]

I dont know why people give so much attention to a topic so irrelevant.
Her gender is clear - a woman. She is impersonating someone she likes.
I am sure there are people who would debate it but there is nothing to debate.

i agree, she just impersonates oden. If she doesn't identify as a man, then yamato is still called a woman.
Kiku identifies as a woman so kiku is called with a male pronoun.
I am not an expert at LGBT though, so i might be wrong here

 

[hokageji]

i think the official is calling Yamato as a him so i'll just stick to that.

 

[electricmastro]

I really don’t think Yamato is comparable with someone like Kiku who referred to herself as female, despite previously being referred to as a brother, out of a dedicated lifestyle rooted in the heart, mind, and soul. I suppose a more comparable statement can be made in regards to Kawamatsu referring to himself as a kappa even though he used to be called a fishman.

Yamato doesn’t seem to be referring to herself as a male as a gender lifestyle choice, but out of desperation to keep Oden’s will alive in wanting to escape Kaido’s abuse and save Wano’s citizens, especially after it was made all the more difficult after Kaido shot Oden to his death. This combined with Luffy telling Yamato she can’t just copy Oden, along with her telling Luffy “Fine, you be Oden then.” very much inclines me to conclude that, and that it’s possible to be yourself while still keeping someone else’s will alive.

 

[Fox666]

Kawamatsu called himself a kappa as a ruse, similar to Brook pretending to be a spirit.

Like Kiku herself said, she's a "woman at heart".

Yamato is cosplaying. If Oden was a Fishman, Oden would declare herself a Fishman.

 

[electricmastro]

Kawamatsu called himself a kappa as a ruse, similar to Brook pretending to be a spirit.

Like Kiku herself said, she's a "woman at heart".

Yamato is cosplaying. If Oden was a Fishman, Oden would declare herself a Fishman.

A ruse that turned into a dedicated lifestyle. I actually recall in an SBS saying that Kawamatsu prefers to be called a kappa to the extent that Oda encourages others to refer to him as such out of respect, as if skin-deep beyond a surface-level quirky ruse, and I‘m sure Oda would the same about Kiku in the sense of her lifestyle being rooted in not just the heart, and not just in one sentence said in one moment in time, but also the mind and soul, spiritually speaking.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I'd be interested to see Sanji's interaction with a beautiful female who identifies as Oden

Might just be my interpretation, but what Roger is to the world... Oden is to Wano that's closed off to the world.

Roger died and inspired the world; Oden died and inspired Yamato.

Roger wanted to Freedom; Oden wanted freedom.

Yamato doesn't identify as Oden in the sense of a make, she identifies with Oden in the sense that Oden stands for freedom. Oden always felt like he was constrained by borders and disliked it, he called Wano too cramped.

When Yamato says I am Oden, she's saying I want to be free kind of like the way Luffy identifies with being Pirate King as meaning free which to Luffy means everyone is free, and not bound by anyone.

 

[catagon87]

Might just be my interpretation, but what Roger is to the world... Oden is to Wano that's closed off to the world.

Roger died and inspired the world; Oden died and inspired Yamato.

Roger wanted to Freedom; Oden wanted freedom.

Yamato doesn't identify as Oden in the sense of a make, she identifies with Oden in the sense that Oden stands for freedom. Oden always felt like he was constrained by borders and disliked it, he called Wano too cramped.

When Yamato says I am Oden, she's saying I want to be free kind of like the way Luffy identifies with being Pirate King as meaning free which to Luffy means everyone is free, and not bound by anyone.

Yeah. I've seen some borderline Social-Justice-Warrior attacks on people for misgendering Yamato (which I find silly since it's a character with no feelings relevant to the real world; nobody is getting hurt by misgendering this person). I think Yamato's identity is less gender-based and more based on their hero. That said, I do think Sanji will hit on Yamato, and when Sanji realizes that Yamato's identity is much more "fluid" than say, Robin or Nami, that some hilarity will ensue. Also, at the end of the day Yamato seems to refer to themselves as "he", so regardless of the identity, it's clearly a male identity.

I think it'd be absolutely hilarious to see Sanji hit on Yamato, then have Yamato actually go for Sanji's advances and say something along the lines of "I'll be a good husband to you as Oden was to Lady Toki!" then that being a continuing trope on the ship. Some reverse-sexual-harassment for Sanji.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

I kinda feel this misgendered thing is just an american problem. I always refer to Yamato with "her" because she is woman, even if she says she identifies as Oden. If she wouldnt be a woman, Oda would probably never drawed her this busty.

I kinda hope Kaidou bashes some sense into her and she comes to the realization that she is stronger if she accepts his lineage. That would be a twist i definetly would enjoy, especially with the saltmining.

 

[Lord Traffy Law]

Yeah. I've seen some borderline Social-Justice-Warrior attacks on people for misgendering Yamato (which I find silly since it's a character with no feelings relevant to the real world; nobody is getting hurt by misgendering this person). I think Yamato's identity is less gender-based and more based on their hero. That said, I do think Sanji will hit on Yamato, and when Sanji realizes that Yamato's identity is much more "fluid" than say, Robin or Nami, that some hilarity will ensue. Also, at the end of the day Yamato seems to refer to themselves as "he", so regardless of the identity, it's clearly a male identity.

I think it'd be absolutely hilarious to see Sanji hit on Yamato, then have Yamato actually go for Sanji's advances and say something along the lines of "I'll be a good husband to you as Oden was to Lady Toki!" then that being a continuing trope on the ship. Some reverse-sexual-harassment for Sanji.

I kinda feel this misgendered thing is just an american problem. I always refer to Yamato with "her" because she is woman, even if she says she identifies as Oden. If she wouldnt be a woman, Oda would probably never drawed her this busty.

I kinda hope Kaidou bashes some sense into her and she comes to the realization that she is stronger if she accepts his lineage. That would be a twist i definetly would enjoy, especially with the saltmining.

if my memory didnt fail me.. Yamato and sanji havent meet yet.. i think he doesnt even know she exists in first place..

i wonder what could be her reaction to Sanji Advances.... if she hit him like Nami.. with her streghnt.. it is goin to be fun, tough she is such a tomboy, she could have another type of reaction to him.. a kind of Robin look a like reaction, in with she consider him funny, and totally ignore him

Yeah I feel people need to see it’s not even the same usual gender thing like kiku , identifying as another person is a delusion , now it depends on what means in actual gender identity and what they do after defeating kaido and closing the oden chapter

It would be funny if she goes back to be identifying as a woman

 

[catagon87]

I kinda feel this misgendered thing is just an american problem. I always refer to Yamato with "her" because she is woman, even if she says she identifies as Oden. If she wouldnt be a woman, Oda would probably never drawed her this busty.

I kinda hope Kaidou bashes some sense into her and she comes to the realization that she is stronger if she accepts his lineage. That would be a twist i definetly would enjoy, especially with the saltmining.

Depends on where you are in America. I've worked in the Bay Area a lot and people find new shit to get upset about over there all the time. Best to avoid "misgendering" people. In my experience, people with strong identities ("I'm a man", "I'm a woman", etc..) are much better about responding to being misgendered than those who are more fickle / fluid ("I'm gender fluid. Some days I'm a man, and some days I'm both."). It's absolutely bizarre that the most ambiguous people seem to get the most upset about being mislabeled, but that's what I've personally observed.

I think that personally, Yamato, as a character, could likely care less about being called she instead of he. They are probably more sensitive about being called Yamato instead of Oden.

 

[Fallou]

I think it's funny that people reference Yamato as "her" and try to interpret Oda's intention with no basis whatsoever when even his own father, Kaido, the strongest creature in the world, calls him "Son".
The manga calls Yamato "him"
Kaido does.
Luffy does.
Everybody does. Clearly Oda has no problem with Yamato wanting to be a guy.
But of course, y'all know better

 

[Pirate Queen]

Yamato the World's Strongest LGTBQ+

WSLGTBQ+ ..... For short

 

[Core D. Roy]

Fandom: whines about Sanji for hundreds of chapters on end every single chapter

Oda: Sanji *literally* carries Zoro whilst stylin' and profilin'

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2021 ---

I think it's funny that people reference Yamato as "her" and try to interpret Oda's intention with no basis whatsoever when even his own father, Kaido, the strongest creature in the world, calls him "Son".
The manga calls Yamato "him"
Kaido does.
Luffy does.
Everybody does. Clearly Oda has no problem with Yamato wanting to be a guy.
But of course, y'all know better

It's because non-binary just doesn't exist to those people. The support for Kiku and the passionate morons that suddenly have degrees in gender identity theory (who definitely aren't by-and-large cis dudes) clearly shows it: it's about presentation to them. They see Yamato's legendary side-boob and their brains can't wrap around the fact that not all queer people fit into a strict binary. Kiku presents very feminine? Acceptance. Yamato introduced wearing a freaking hannya getup of all things and then the legendary side-boob reveal? Their brains short out like a faulty circuit.

Same rules as real life: dude identifies as a dude? They a dude. The end.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

I think it's funny that people reference Yamato as "her" and try to interpret Oda's intention with no basis whatsoever when even his own father, Kaido, the strongest creature in the world, calls him "Son".
The manga calls Yamato "him"
Kaido does.
Luffy does.
Everybody does. Clearly Oda has no problem with Yamato wanting to be a guy.
But of course, y'all know better

Spoiler

Not to get so political.

She identifies herself as Oden, we know she's not Oden. Oden to her simply means freedom.

She is called he, we know she's not a he.

In fact, she said Oden was a man, so she CHOSE to be a man inherently telling us she recognises she's a woman, but chooses to be a man because Oden was a man. You don't choose to be something if you recognise you're that thing, it's the opposite... you don't choose to be Human when you know you're Human, it's a different thing if you choose to be a Dog because you acknowledged you're Human and want to be a dog or whatever it is one chooses to be.

She wants to be everything that Oden embodies from his ideology of freedom into his very being.

People can identify as whatever they want, more power to them, freedom of expression, but fact here is she acknowledges she's female and is simply embodying Oden in philosophy and even as how she identifies her person. If she wants to be called him, great.

Even Luffy said "huh"? you said "son"? because he sees she's a woman, so it's not like people are just saying otherwise.

When she says he, she's identifying as Oden.

As to why Kaido calls her son? Has nothing to be with being the strongest creature. We don't know why.

 

[Fallou]

Spoiler

Not to get so political.

She identifies herself as Oden, we know she's not Oden. Oden to her simply means freedom.

She is called he, we know she's not a he.

In fact, she said Oden was a man, so she CHOSE to be a man inherently telling us she recognises she's a woman, but chooses to be a man because Oden was a man. You don't choose to be something if you recognise you're that thing, it's the opposite... you don't choose to be Human when you know you're Human, it's a different thing if you choose to be a Dog because you acknowledged you're Human and want to be a dog or whatever it is one chooses to be.

She wants to be everything that Oden embodies from his ideology of freedom into his very being.

People can identify as whatever they want, more power to them, freedom of expression, but fact here is she acknowledges she's female and is simply embodying Oden in philosophy and even as how she identifies her person. If she wants to be called him, great.

Even Luffy said "huh"? you said "son"? because he sees she's a woman, so it's not like people are just saying otherwise.

When she says he, she's identifying as Oden.

As to why Kaido calls her son? Has nothing to be with being the strongest creature. We don't know why.

In my opinion if he says he is a he, then he is, it's not even political.
And where does he identify as a woman in the part you quoted? I'm sorry if I missed it
He also literaly says "I chose to be a man".
So yeah, it's because he identifies with his role model who's a guy, but it doesn't change anything to his gender identity. Gender identity is gender identity whatever your reason for it.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

And where does he identify as a woman in the part you quoted? I'm sorry if I missed it

Please let me rephrase your statement.

"Where does she acknowledge she's a woman?"

Part where she said CHOSE to be a man because Oden is a man.

Can't say you chose to be something you are IF you are that thing to begin with.

You're human. You can't choose to be Human since you're Human. If you want to identify as a fish, you can, but you're still Human. People will respect your identifying as a fish if requested.

He also literaly says "I chose to be a man".

Yes, because she acknowledges she's not a man.

So yeah, it's because he identifies with his role model who's a guy, but it doesn't change anything to his gender identity. Gender identity is gender identity whatever your reason for it.

Well, people refer to her as a woman because she's a woman.

If people want to call her as to what she identifies as, they'll call her he.

Calling her either is fine, it's not like anyone calls her he or she to offend.

Luffy also saw her as she until she explained how she's Oden.

Most people reading the series are not focused on the complexities and just call her as they see her. I doubt most people even remember these panels to know the details. People who see her character for the first time will call her she. My point being it's not a big deal. No one is being offensive.

Gender identity is gender identity whatever your reason for it.

No one said otherwise. Some people still call Kiku he. She herself said she is a man, but a woman in heart

Spoiler

Kiku acknowledges being male, but identifies as a woman. No one is saying otherwise and it's no different with Yamato. And I think you're making a big thing out of nothing, but that's besides the point.

 

[Fallou]

Please let me rephrase your statement.

"Where does she acknowledge she's a woman?"

Part where she said CHOSE to be a man because Oden is a man.

Can't say you chose to be something you are IF you are that thing to begin with.

You're human. You can't choose to be Human since you're Human. If you want to identify as a fish, you can, but you're still Human. People will respect your identifying as a fish if requested.



Yes, because she acknowledges she's not a man.



Well, people refer to her as a woman because she's a woman.

If people want to call her as to what she identifies as, they'll call her he.

Calling her either is fine, it's not like anyone calls her he or she to offend.

Luffy also saw her as she until she explained how she's Oden.

Most people reading the series are not focused on the complexities and just call her as they see her. I doubt most people even remember these panels to know the details. People who see her character for the first time will call her she. My point being it's not a big deal. No one is being offensive.



No one said otherwise. Some people still call Kiku he. She herself said she is a man, but a woman in heart

Spoiler

Kiku acknowledges being male, but identifies as a woman. No one is saying otherwise and it's no different with Yamato. And I think you're making a big thing out of nothing, but that's besides the point.

Respectfully disagreeing, moving on

 

[Federicoxxx]

@fallou
@Hannibal Psyche

Yamato side boob. will always be a side boob.. as long as i remember Okamas doesnt have boobs except for iva when he totally change to a womans body...

SHE is and always be a Woman.. and doesnt try to be a man neither.. when she says is oden.. is cause she is so attached to his history his sacrifice.. that literally want to be like him... ( in behavior, and convictions, not cause she really want to have d*** and b***s

thats what i understeand when she says is oden..and thats shy she took the name herself is the ideals she is after..
and thats why she carry his daam notebook the whole time

Kiku and izou is different.. is hard 2 tell cause.. extremely cute and afeminated men does exist in one piece...tough i dont remember seeing boobs in neither of them... not even Side ones

 

[Diivil]

If you want to be really specific and respectful:
Name: Oden.
Gender: Oden's gender.

Anything less than that is just inconsiderate and not cool.

--- Double Post Merged, Jun 3, 2021, Original Post Date: Jun 3, 2021 ---

Anyways, I'm looking forward to Oden's confrontation with Kaido. The way Oden's gender was looking down on Kaido from the rooftop looked kinda cool. Hopefully Oda can deliver.