Discussion Yonko Discussion Thread

[grey matter]

It wasn't.

It doesn't mean there still weren't always 2-3 Pirates in the New World who were the most powerful and influential.

If Luffy can be considered an Emperor simply for:

1. Being strong.
2. Having a fleet.

Then the idea Emperors didn't exist is bad logic. Being strong and having a fleet aren't new things,

Shiki was said to have one of the biggest crews and we know of Rocks who had the most powerful and influential crew in the world 40 years ago, so we know Emperor figures did exist.

I get what you're saying.

But there is a difference between characters existing who could qualify as an emperor, vs a system or world order actually existing as such.

I'm sure there would've existed pirates in OP, who were very powerful, had advanced haki, fleet etc
But, the situations, whatever it may be, that existed in the past, probably didn't allow them to outright become emperors that ruled over large swaths of land.


Let's even take the example of modern rich people vs rich people of the past.
Yes, the rich have always existed.
But, globalism and current world order has allowed the richest man, the power and influence over the world unlike what had been observed in the past.
There are no longer kings or emperors now in most of the world, but "democracy".
The system of governance can change, and has changed.

This could be the case in OP world as well.

There could've always been great pirates and strong men in general. But, only the system of the Yonkos........probably is a recent phenomenon.
There are two key events which might have resulted in the current order:
- Rocks, his ambitions and his fall
- Roger's death, kickstarting the great age of pirates

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

But that is actually us as fans extending One Piece lore for Oda to make it Perfect, or suit our needs.

Not fans extending, it's common sense. There are some ideas that are just common sense.

For example. would you say there were no Pirates before Roger? or Rocks?

Would you say that since the WG existed, there were no people opposing the WG?

None of these Past Emperors or another balance of power the Warlords in the One Piece World; Have been mentioned within the time frame before Roger.

Emperors are simply:

1. Powerful Pirates
2. With Fleets

That are influential enough to control a huge portion of the Pirate world.

Were there powerful pirates before Rocks, Roger, and Whitebeard? You would say yes, you're intelligent.

Were there Pirates with huge fleets before Shiki, Rocks, Big Mom? You would say yes, there's no reason huge fleets didn't exist before now.

So, why wouldn't there be Pirates that are both powerful with huge fleets with the influence to control the Pirate World? No reason, so it makes no sense to claim Emperors (strongest people with fleets) not existing.

Shichibukai are absolutely new, they are not something born from human nature. It's a role for a specific purpose. Warlords are not the product of human nature. Not something born from greed, but something.

We don't need to be told Emperors (strong people with fleets) existed before Roger anymore than we need Oda to tell us Pirates existed before Rocks or that Evil people existed before Rocks. These sort of people would always have existed.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2022 ---

I'm sure there would've existed pirates in OP, who were very powerful, had advanced haki, fleet etc
But, the situations, whatever it may be, that existed in the past, probably didn't allow them to outright become emperors that ruled over large swaths of land.

Emperors are not born from situation.

Emperors are born from simply being strong and influential.

Entire reason to be an Emperor is simply to be the most influential person in the sea who can control it. So, why there would have been such crews that existed even before Rocks makes no sense.

Did Pirates exist before Rocks? Why? I'd like to see your answer regarding this because it would prove the point being made... answer is of course Pirates existed... Pirates are people who oppose the WG on sea... the WG has existed for 800 years, there would always have been Pirates in existence.

If Pirates exist, why can't there be strong influential ones who have the influence to control most of the sea? There's no reason why not.

We don't need Oda to tell us Pirates existed before Rocks to know pirates did exist, it's just common sense if you see what I'm saying.

 

[XXGenesis]

Not fans extending, it's common sense. There are some ideas that are just common sense.

For example. would you say there were no Pirates before Roger? or Rocks?

Would you say that since the WG existed, there were no people opposing the WG?



Emperors are simply:

1. Powerful Pirates
2. With Fleets

That are influential enough to control a huge portion of the Pirate world.

Were there powerful pirates before Rocks, Roger, and Whitebeard? You would say yes, you're intelligent.

Were there Pirates with huge fleets before Shiki, Rocks, Big Mom? You would say yes, there's no reason huge fleets didn't exist before now.

So, why wouldn't there be Pirates that are both powerful with huge fleets with the influence to control the Pirate World? No reason, so it makes no sense to claim Emperors (strongest people with fleets) not existing.

Shichibukai are absolutely new, they are not something born from human nature. It's a role for a specific purpose. Warlords are not the product of human nature. Not something born from greed, but something.

We don't need to be told Emperors (strong people with fleets) existed before Roger anymore than we need Oda to tell us Pirates existed before Rocks or that Evil people existed before Rocks. These sort of people would always have existed.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2022 ---

Emperors are not born from situation.

Emperors are born from simply being strong and influential.

Entire reason to be an Emperor is simply to be the most influential person in the sea who can control it. So, why there would have been such crews that existed even before Rocks makes no sense.

Did Pirates exist before Rocks? Why? I'd like to see your answer regarding this because it would prove the point being made... answer is of course Pirates existed... Pirates are people who oppose the WG on sea... the WG has existed for 800 years, there would always have been Pirates in existence.

If Pirates exist, why can't there be strong influential ones who have the influence to control most of the sea? There's no reason why not.

We don't need Oda to tell us Pirates existed before Rocks to know pirates did exist, it's just common sense if you see what I'm saying.

It’s not common sense. It’s your rational of a story. That has not divulged any such information. So you are assuming, within the realm of reason. Which is why you should realize you can be wrong because ultimately it’s left up to the author not fans, to flesh out in further detail history and the word building of their fiction.

Pirates before Rocks & Roger….Sure we have Pirates like Rumbar & Shimotsuki, & the Giants.

Since the WG existed Ppl opposing them…umm yes, sure as to what degree, You can’t know because it’s not mentioned in the story.

Powerful pirates before Rocks & Roger??? Yea but who are these characters again?? How would we know that..this is getting weird. You can think such, but to dare pass it off as a fact is highly absurd and you must be an editor of One Piece or something. Because now your just changing the story up…I have my own headcannon on this but do know it is head cannon.

Headcannon
Pirates existed, Marines chased them & jailed them. Very manageable for the WG.

Rocks D Xebec had every Pirate worth anything on his Crew, except Roger & his crew….during this time there are no Emperors.
just a Lawless New World.

WhiteBeard, Big Mom, Kaido, etc etc they didn’t have their territories nor full reputations as they were still building Them up. They had to become emperors

You cannot prove that there were Emperor’s before the current set. Because it should logically make sense doesn’t mean that the author has covered things that far or sees it as a necessary to explain..

 

[M3J]

Rocks is proof, it's also called common sense.

Shiki and Whitebeard are proof. You're just ignorant is all.

It's as dumb as saying Rich people didn't exist in One Piece until now.

Of course there's always been Rich people.

Jeez, that's not proof at all, that's just your interpretation or what you want to be true. Those are two different things, and what you're stating is the opposite of common sense, it's you passing off your subjective thoughts as facts. You're unable to provide any sort of proof that emperor was a thing back then, or that pirates were as influential as you claim during the Rocks era.

You continue to pass your views off as facts, but you can't back them up apart from trying to take manga out of context and selectively reading things. Then you use flimsy points like "consistency" and whatever else that have been debunked. Until you give me proof that emperors existed back then, especially when the original emperors weren't even captains when the Rocks pirates existed, you're fully wrong. Your inability to be open to any other suggestion is annoying, especially when you're condescending towards others, and even worse when you've been so wrong in the past at least once before.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Jeez, that's not proof at all, that's just your interpretation or what you want to be true.

Nope, it's called common sense.

ou're unable to provide any sort of proof that emperor was a thing back then

I do have evidence, you just lack the ability to comprehend it.

It's just stupid to think that there weren't Powerful Pirates with Huge fleets that were ruling the New World.

We already have Rocks, so you're pretty much just not thinking properly. Rocks is essentially an Emperor.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2022 ---

Until you give me proof that emperors existed back then, especially when the original emperors weren't even captains

I don't need to give you proof, you can't comprehend it, lol.

Logic isn't really your forte, it's a waste of my time.

Nonetheless, the fact is you think Emperors didn't exist is purely absurd, lol.

What's next, Pirates didn't exist before Rocks? You would say something as absurd as that.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022 ---

Your inability to be open to any other suggestion is annoying,

No, I'm just not open to things that are inherently lacking in sense.

Luffy's Zoro's father, why would anyone be open to such a silly suggestion?

You expect me to be open to ridiculous ideas, that's illogical, lol.

 

[XXGenesis]

Wow @Hannibal Psyche this is low for you bro. You know there’s no proof that you can show or explain.

Because Rocks Existed we should “Think” others did too…Is not evidence or proof.

Of The balance of power that existed in the previous eras. The current Emperors all stem from Rocks, as with their rivals and other Big note worthy Pirates.

If you wanna stretch the lore it wouldn’t make sense to say others like Rocks existed before him; Because we wouldn’t have the Pirate Age that Roger started. We’re Existing & Non-existing Pirates would sail the Grand Line to its end.

I would have to go re-read the chapters to correlate when Rocks was defeated & his crew disbanded to make their own legacy as when Roger sailed the Grand Line and then came for Oden.

During & after Roger’s reign is when these Pirate Emperors gathers their influence within the New World; Through strength, Territories, & Massive Crews. They were able to carve out a piece of the One Piece world For themselves

 

[M3J]

Nope, it's called common sense.

At this point, I'm hoping you're just trolling me and not serious, because this is just plain embarrassing.

I do have evidence, you just lack the ability to comprehend it.

It's just stupid to think that there weren't Powerful Pirates with Huge fleets that were ruling the New World.

We already have Rocks, so you're pretty much just not thinking properly. Rocks is essentially an Emperor.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 3, 2022 ---

I don't need to give you proof, you can't comprehend it, lol.

Logic isn't really your forte, it's a waste of my time.

Nonetheless, the fact is you think Emperors didn't exist is purely absurd, lol.

What's next, Pirates didn't exist before Rocks? You would say something as absurd as that.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 3, 2022 ---

No, I'm just not open to things that are inherently lacking in sense.

Luffy's Zoro's father, why would anyone be open to such a silly suggestion?

You expect me to be open to ridiculous ideas, that's illogical, lol.

You literally have not provided any evidence other than your own assumptions and selective reading. That's all you do most of the time, just twist, selectively read, and treat your assumptions as fact.

How was Rocks an emperor? Was he called the emperor? The most influential pirate? Have pirates always ruled the New World, or were the Marines too strong until Rocks?

So basically, you don't have proof and you're talking out of your ass. Understood. And coming up with nonsensical comparison like "Luffy's Zoro's father" to whether the concept of emperor existed back then, when Whitebeard, Big Mom, and Kaidou were underlings.


You weren't open to Luffy not fighting Big Mom because to you it didn't make sense and was inconsistent. Yet Oda had Luffy fight Katakuri to the point of exhaustion and had him run away from Big Mom without even causing any damage to her. Even when Luffy made two attempts to hurt Big Mom and failed miserably, you kept insisting they'd still fight.

Your inability to provide proof says it all, really, as well as your attacks.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Wow I usually don't find myself on the same side as HP but in this case I think it is pretty reasonable to think the equivalent of what an emperor is today existed in the past before the WG created a formal title of Emperor.

In the current storyline an Emperor is a powerful pirate with large enough influence (typically through fleets of their own) that rule over territories. To me territories doesn't necessarily have to be land but as so far at least with the emperors that we have been introduced to, they rule at least 1 island (they don't need to reside there e.g. WB always was in the seas).

Now we also know from the story that pirating is not a new thing (been happening at least for several hundred years) and that there have been other powerful pirates in the past. Some evidence to back this up from Oda:

• (500 years ago) In Thriller Bark they explained the history of the living Oars
  • Oars was a legend 500 years ago, known throughout the world
  • Oars was titled continent puller and had amassed multiple islands under his rule
• (400-300 years ago) The Giant Warrior pirates existed hundreds of years ago
  • Oda indicated that Jorul and Borul were the original captains who fought together for 300 years
  • These two were born 400 years ago
• (100 years ago) Dory and Brogy were pirating and as a result of their competition Giant Warrior pirates disbanded
• (50 years to start of Golden Age) Prior to Roger's era we have plenty of examples of pirating
  • Rumbar pirates and Brooks story shows them 50 years ago pirating and that being normal thing
  • WB, Roger, BM, Rocks, and all the other big names they mentioned all were pirating independently before Rocks put them together under his banner. Clearly lots of pirates around even then.

The above is all in verse and shows that pirating at the very least has been going on for a very long time in OP verse.

Now on to what it means to be an emperor. By today's standards of an emperor I think Oars would qualify. Durning his era he was one of the most powerful (his name is legend today due to that) people around and rules over many islands (he had territory and was given continent puller). Now this does not mean Oars if brought to present day would be as strong as a current Emperor but that does not matter so long as the individual is at the top of strength in the era that they existed in (real life comparison is comparing ancient empire vs modern day country).

I also think there is some conflation going on of the WG recognizing a group of people with a title (Yonko or anything akin to that) vs what the functional thing itself is. Was Oars called an Emperor (in the Yonko sense) by the WG? Likely not, but does that matter? Do you think any of the current Yonko care what the WG or the world calls them so long as they have the power and territory? Those who argue that this matters are playing a game of semantics.

Unlike formal organizations like the Warlords which have a start date and end date since they are official things created by a government (WG), powerful pirates just exist. They do need someone to give them a title or call them a specific thing but not for them to be powerful and to rule territory. Look what happened the moment Luffy seemed to be a threat to existing Emperors, he was proclaimed 5th Emperor by Morgans. They didn't demote BM or anything. Just another powerful pirate seems to exist now so boom 5th one. If 10 more people of that power and influence show up same thing.

As for the balance of power, that has been a thing for at least 800 years. So long as the WG has been ruling, things have been in balance. How they label things, slice them up etc, doesn't mean much to people acting outside the law.

 

[XXGenesis]

Ok, but until the story says they were Emperors that existed. Or the Balance of power existed with these same factions. Has not for been hinted at. We as fans should not categorize them as such until the story says so.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Ok, but until the story says they were Emperors that existed. Or the Balance of power existed with these same factions. Has not for been hinted at. We as fans should not categorize them as such until the story says so.

I guess what I wonder is what is it that matters to you? Is it that these older generations of pirates have the title of "Emperor" given to them by the WG/media/or just citizens in general? Or is what matters that they are some of the most powerful pirates of their era that rule territories? I personally pick the latter since that is a functional definition vs a semantical one e.g. a title of King v Monarch v Despot v Czar etc all being functionally the same but semantically different (and yes I will concede that there are some subtle differences if you get down to the details, particularly in what they connote in the system they function in) . But if you say the former is what matters to you then I can say I understand where you're coming from and just move on.

As for the balance of power, we know for a fact the Warlord system came into being post Roger. Does that mean the world was unbalanced before they existed? Shanks only became an Emperor around 6 years before the start of the main storyline, meaning there weren't Four Emperors for over a decade post Roger. Does that mean the world was unbalanced then? Point here being the world of OP is constantly changing but for the last 800 years been relatively stable since the center of almost all power is the WG. In my mind WG can wipe out all the Yonko if they really wanted to but their goal is larger than wiping out individuals pirate groups since that does nothing to end piracy (similar to how real life governments can wipe out individual drug lords but do nothing to end the drug trade etc).

To me the OP world has always had different sources of power (WG being the biggest one in past 800 years), just like the real world. Over time how that power is divided up and how they relate to each other changes but there is balance. For example pre WG the world power was ancient kingdom. Then a period of imbalance happened (void century) and the new balance centered on WG formed. For the last 800 years the world of OP has been in relative balance, whether there are Warlords, Yonko, or whatever else that could have existed over all that time, the majority of the world stayed the same under the umbrella of the WG. Balance has not been destroyed and the story of OP we are reading itself is the slow destruction of the current balance since by the end Luffy will end the current order of things. But hey this is just my view so if you have other thoughts on what you mean by balance of powers would love to hear them.

 

[M3J]

What is balance/unbalanced though? Wouldn't Marines being the one in power mean balance, as they're seen as good guys?

 

[DeadlyBeast]

What is balance/unbalanced though? Wouldn't Marines being the one in power mean balance, as they're seen as good guys?

Balance to me is relative stability regardless of whether the rulers are good or not. In the case of the OP world I say things are balanced and have been for 800 years since most of the world has lived under the WG without much change. Warlord system and Yonko are very myopic views on balance of power since all they really impact is a small part of the sea, the GL. Both during and prior to these formal systems existing WG is center of global power and most seas and peoples have been stable. Only reason WG cares so much about these is because they know the information/power to create global instability exists in the GL and they want to prevent that.

In general, when we have large systems like governments things are mostly stable in the long term with periods of instability when the centers of power shift. In the case of OP, imbalance/unbalanced to me is a war that spans the world, which is where the story seems to be heading. Post this war we will return to a balanced state with new centers of power (my guess is a new WG that is not ruled by the CD and is actually just).

 

[M3J]

Balance to me is relative stability regardless of whether the rulers are good or not. In the case of the OP world I say things are balanced and have been for 800 years since most of the world has lived under the WG without much change. Warlord system and Yonko are very myopic views on balance of power since all they really impact is a small part of the sea, the GL. Both during and prior to these formal systems existing WG is center of global power and most seas and peoples have been stable. Only reason WG cares so much about these is because they know the information/power to create global instability exists in the GL and they want to prevent that.

In general, when we have large systems like governments things are mostly stable in the long term with periods of instability when the centers of power shift. In the case of OP, imbalance/unbalanced to me is a war that spans the world, which is where the story seems to be heading. Post this war we will return to a balanced state with new centers of power (my guess is a new WG that is not ruled by the CD and is actually just).

I'm not sure, the Yonkou might have a huge effect. Didn't a lot of territories that Whitebeard claimed see violence after his death? The manga stated that when he died, these territories became unstable, and other pirates fought to control them. The warlord system was created to help the Marines be more balanced against the Yonkou due to their power, and I think it's the existence of Yonkou that created the imbalance. The Marines fear two emperors coming together and taking on the Marines as they'd likely lose.

OP to me says that the imbalance comes from pirates having too much strength/power, enough to make the Marines sweat.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

I'm not sure, the Yonkou might have a huge effect. Didn't a lot of territories that Whitebeard claimed see violence after his death? The manga stated that when he died, these territories became unstable, and other pirates fought to control them. The warlord system was created to help the Marines be more balanced against the Yonkou due to their power, and I think it's the existence of Yonkou that created the imbalance. The Marines fear two emperors coming together and taking on the Marines as they'd likely lose.

OP to me says that the imbalance comes from pirates having too much strength/power, enough to make the Marines sweat.

Yes I agree that WBs death led to local imbalance of the islands that he ruled in the NW and that for the people living on those islands things were not stable. However, as far as the OP world is concerned that is not a large scale problem. Think about it this way:

• The OP world is huge, just like our real life world. Maps we've seen of it in the manga show us as much
  • Nami explaining the world map with image in background
  • Mihawk explaining the vastness of the world with image in background
• The NW is only half of the grand line, which itself is a very small part of the overall OP world
  • WB territory itself is a small subset of the NW

With the above in mind all the islands a Yonko rules going into chaos is not really a threat to stability of the OP world or the WG, which is the center of power.

Simultaneously we have also seen many islands (Cocoyashi village, Drum kingdom, Alabasta, Tequila wolf etc) suffer from instability/war but never once have any of these been labeled as imbalance by WG. To me the reason is pretty straightforward, the WG only cares about NW and the Yonko because that's where the information on Void Century exists. That information is a threat to their entire organization (for reasons we don't currently know), which in turn is a threat to global stability in the OP world.

Yes the marines fear Yonko teaming up since the balance in NW would be disrupted. Balance to the WG is that pirates in NW are at a standstill and cannot progress, which prevents them from ever finding out about Void Century. This to me is also why the Revolutionaries despite being a global military threat never factored into the balance of power as far as WG is concerned since they are not actively trying to get to Raftel where the Rio poneglyph is.

Do you really think an organization as large as WG sees Yonko teaming up to fight them as an existential threat? Yes the marines would suffer but I don't think they would lose. The marines are a huge organization that span the globe and have more military power than all the Yonko combined. They have more ships, more soldiers, more resources etc. In a straight battle for domination WG wins hands down. What they can't beat is information that can change the hearts and minds of their subjects.

 

[M3J]

Yeah but that's few islands compared to multiple in the New World, no?

Balance to WG is the eradication of pirates, if not at least the emperors, and all power in the WG/Marines' hands. Which is why they okayed Spandem and his dad looking for the ancient weapons, and why Akainu set his plan in motion after he became the fleet admiral. The Revolutionaries aren't pirates, they're just trying to topple kingdoms, but they also present a threat to trying to uncover the Void Century even if they're not actively trying to get to Raftel. You'd think the World Government would want to squash any possibility of that, especially given how powerful the Revolutionaries are.

Yes they do, which is why the shichibukai was formed in the first place. It's also why the WG threatened to strip any warlord of their title if they didn't come to Marineford during Ace's execution. I'm not sure where you got that information from, but I do remember Marines stating many times they want to eradicate piracy, get rid of the emperors, fear the emperors working together (I think Garp and other Marines talked about Rocks pirates for the first time here), and etc.

I mean, they fear the information of what happened during the Void Century and before that leaking, but they also fear the emperors and their strength. The search for ancient weapons, creation of shichibukai, Akainu making the Marines stronger, etc are all the results of knowing how dangerous the emperors are. That's why there's an imbalance in their view.

And as Hannibal Psyche said, the emperors are considered the most influential and the strongest pirates (even if we disagree on when they were created/established). Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaidou, Shanks, Blackbeard, and soon Luffy are all feared because they have the ability to really challenge the Marines. Hell, if Ace wasn't the son of Roger, the Marines likely would not have tried to execute him out of fear of a war with Whitebeard.

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Wow I usually don't find myself on the same side as HP but in this case I think it is pretty reasonable to think the equivalent of what an emperor is today existed in the past before the WG created a formal title of Emperor.

In the current storyline an Emperor is a powerful pirate with large enough influence (typically through fleets of their own) that rule over territories. To me territories doesn't necessarily have to be land but as so far at least with the emperors that we have been introduced to, they rule at least 1 island (they don't need to reside there e.g. WB always was in the seas).

Now we also know from the story that pirating is not a new thing (been happening at least for several hundred years) and that there have been other powerful pirates in the past. Some evidence to back this up from Oda:

• (500 years ago) In Thriller Bark they explained the history of the living Oars
  • Oars was a legend 500 years ago, known throughout the world
  • Oars was titled continent puller and had amassed multiple islands under his rule
• (400-300 years ago) The Giant Warrior pirates existed hundreds of years ago
  • Oda indicated that Jorul and Borul were the original captains who fought together for 300 years
  • These two were born 400 years ago
• (100 years ago) Dory and Brogy were pirating and as a result of their competition Giant Warrior pirates disbanded
• (50 years to start of Golden Age) Prior to Roger's era we have plenty of examples of pirating
  • Rumbar pirates and Brooks story shows them 50 years ago pirating and that being normal thing
  • WB, Roger, BM, Rocks, and all the other big names they mentioned all were pirating independently before Rocks put them together under his banner. Clearly lots of pirates around even then.

The above is all in verse and shows that pirating at the very least has been going on for a very long time in OP verse.

Now on to what it means to be an emperor. By today's standards of an emperor I think Oars would qualify. Durning his era he was one of the most powerful (his name is legend today due to that) people around and rules over many islands (he had territory and was given continent puller). Now this does not mean Oars if brought to present day would be as strong as a current Emperor but that does not matter so long as the individual is at the top of strength in the era that they existed in (real life comparison is comparing ancient empire vs modern day country).

I also think there is some conflation going on of the WG recognizing a group of people with a title (Yonko or anything akin to that) vs what the functional thing itself is. Was Oars called an Emperor (in the Yonko sense) by the WG? Likely not, but does that matter? Do you think any of the current Yonko care what the WG or the world calls them so long as they have the power and territory? Those who argue that this matters are playing a game of semantics.

Unlike formal organizations like the Warlords which have a start date and end date since they are official things created by a government (WG), powerful pirates just exist. They do need someone to give them a title or call them a specific thing but not for them to be powerful and to rule territory. Look what happened the moment Luffy seemed to be a threat to existing Emperors, he was proclaimed 5th Emperor by Morgans. They didn't demote BM or anything. Just another powerful pirate seems to exist now so boom 5th one. If 10 more people of that power and influence show up same thing.

As for the balance of power, that has been a thing for at least 800 years. So long as the WG has been ruling, things have been in balance. How they label things, slice them up etc, doesn't mean much to people acting outside the law.

Finally, someone speaks.

I don't know why people think there wouldn't have been a Pirate of influence back then.

There are things we don't need to be told. Did angry people exist 100 years ago? Well of course. Did criminals exist before Rocks? Of course, these things are not new, they're just nature.
Greed, the need to be influential, the need for power, how people can actually think it's a new thing flabbergasts me.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2022 ---

The current Emperors all stem from Rocks, as with their rivals and other Big note worthy Pirates.

Wrong.

Pirates existed before Rocks.

An Emperor is just someone with influence.

It's just dumb to think powerful influential pirates didn't exist before, lol.

Do you really need Oda to tell you... 353 years ago, humans existed in One Piece? To know they did? Or is it just a common sense assumption?

You really need Oda to tell you that criminals that were influential existed before now? Common now, lol.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2022 ---

You literally have not provided any evidence other than your own assumptions and selective reading.

The reality is your thinking is just poor in regards to this topic, lol.

You really need Oda to tell you Pirates existed to believe Pirates existed.

Power Pirates Influential Pirates.

Wow, Powerful Pirates with influence existed? WOW, no way, lol.

Common sense dude, it'd be stupid if anyone needed Oda to tell them well...Humans existed 200 years ago to know they did.

 

[XXGenesis]

I got no problem if ya wanna double down on your perspective, let’s just keep the response positive or neutral, just away from negativity and I’m all for it.

I do need Oda to tell me their were Emperors in the sea. Or else otherwise from my Persepective; The great Pirate age brought about a new balance of power within the world…It started with 2 ppl, Rocks & Roger.

From Rocks who they erased, The emperors appeared out of his crew. & Roger motivated every current and non-existing(Luffy) Pirate to sail the Grand Line…This is why the Warlord system was made. To fight the fire with fire.

Other great Pirates existed. Nobody is refuting this point we have example older than Rocks. None of them imo were anywhere close to a threat to the WG like Rocks, Roger or the Emperors.

Again Roger inspired the current shape of the world it is now. Pirate King, all because he sailed the entire Grand Line.

If you wanna be so liberal with assigning positions to characters they haven’t been given or listed as. Rocks could easily be seen as a Pirate King….As with White Beard…but they aren’t. As with these other Great Pirates, they weren’t emperors just great Pirates.

 

[DeadlyBeast]

Yeah but that's few islands compared to multiple in the New World, no?

I listed those as immediate examples that came to mind but we know for a fact war is happening in a lot of other islands. During the Dressrosa arc we learned Joker was supplying weapons to war zones all over the place so there are plenty of other islands and perhaps even large countries that are actively in war at the moment.

Balance to WG is the eradication of pirates, if not at least the emperors, and all power in the WG/Marines' hands. Which is why they okayed Spandem and his dad looking for the ancient weapons, and why Akainu set his plan in motion after he became the fleet admiral. The Revolutionaries aren't pirates, they're just trying to topple kingdoms, but they also present a threat to trying to uncover the Void Century even if they're not actively trying to get to Raftel. You'd think the World Government would want to squash any possibility of that, especially given how powerful the Revolutionaries are.

Yes I agree they want to wipe out pirates. I think they have the power to take out individual pirate groups (would be difficult and cost a lot) like a Yonko but that wouldn't end piracy. They think having Pluton would help (I have my doubts) in making this happen and other military strategies like what Akainu is doing. As for the Revolutionaries, I do agree they are seen as a threat but just not as much as Yonko. Perhaps their military strength is not high enough or its really about the RIo Poneglyph. Without them Revolutionaries going after red poneglyph and trying to get to Raftel they aren't as much a threat.

Yes they do, which is why the shichibukai was formed in the first place. It's also why the WG threatened to strip any warlord of their title if they didn't come to Marineford during Ace's execution. I'm not sure where you got that information from, but I do remember Marines stating many times they want to eradicate piracy, get rid of the emperors, fear the emperors working together (I think Garp and other Marines talked about Rocks pirates for the first time here), and etc.

I mean, they fear the information of what happened during the Void Century and before that leaking, but they also fear the emperors and their strength. The search for ancient weapons, creation of shichibukai, Akainu making the Marines stronger, etc are all the results of knowing how dangerous the emperors are. That's why there's an imbalance in their view.

And as Hannibal Psyche said, the emperors are considered the most influential and the strongest pirates (even if we disagree on when they were created/established). Whitebeard, Big Mom, Kaidou, Shanks, Blackbeard, and soon Luffy are all feared because they have the ability to really challenge the Marines. Hell, if Ace wasn't the son of Roger, the Marines likely would not have tried to execute him out of fear of a war with Whitebeard.

Don't get me wrong, the Yonko are definitely a military threat to the WG. They are very powerful and all working together they would do a great deal of damage to the WG. However, if they went to a full war with the WG (not something as small scale as Marineford which is honestly just a battle) the Yonko would lose. The WG has so much more power at its disposal:

• They have several high tier fighters (admirals/fleet admirals) and apparently the ability to draft more of people at that level relatively easily
• Lots of middle strength fighters with dozens of VC that can fight execs and commanders of yonko crews
• There is the entirety of ciphor pol with CP0 seeming to have pretty powerful fighters
• Vast quantities of foot soldiers that far exceed the raw numbers yonko have
• Massive fleets spanning the world (far more many ships than yonko have)
• They have alliance of 100+ countries that have their own militaries that they can call on if it is an existential threat
• Insane amount of foot soldiers in just the marines (the 100k they gathered in marineford is a faction of their full organization)
• Etc etc

If you think about it, 4 Emperors together rule a single half of the GL. The WG literally rules majority of the world. A full scale war with WG that is just head on battle is likely to fail based on those (in my view), but I admit this is my own point of view not something that is explicit manga canon.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2022 ---

I got no problem if ya wanna double down on your perspective, let’s just keep the response positive or neutral, just away from negativity and I’m all for it.

+1 on keeping things positive and having a good/fun discussion on our thoughts about yonko

I do need Oda to tell me their were Emperors in the sea. Or else otherwise from my Persepective; The great Pirate age brought about a new balance of power within the world…It started with 2 ppl, Rocks & Roger.

From Rocks who they erased, The emperors appeared out of his crew. & Roger motivated every current and non-existing(Luffy) Pirate to sail the Grand Line…This is why the Warlord system was made. To fight the fire with fire.

Other great Pirates existed. Nobody is refuting this point we have example older than Rocks. None of them imo were anywhere close to a threat to the WG like Rocks, Roger or the Emperors.

Again Roger inspired the current shape of the world it is now. Pirate King, all because he sailed the entire Grand Line.

If you wanna be so liberal with assigning positions to characters they haven’t been given or listed as. Rocks could easily be seen as a Pirate King….As with White Beard…but they aren’t. As with these other Great Pirates, they weren’t emperors just great Pirates.

Thanks for the response. I can get this point of view on the title of emperor. Seems we agree on there having been powerful pirates with influence and territory in the past, they just weren't officially labeled as emperor by the WG or others.

Moving on to new subject, what will come of the Yonko system now that BM seems to be going down. We know from the Marineford arc that taking out a Yonko doesn't make one automatically one hence why it took Blackbeard another year to prove himself and his crew before getting recognized as one.

Do we think that BM and Kaidos position vanish, and Luffy is the only new person recognized making it a group of 3 Emperors instead or do we think this is the start of the end of the system itself e.g. no more Emperors.

 

[McNuss]

An Emperor is just someone with influence.

So.. All hail the great Pirate Emperor...

Don Krieg!?

 

[Hannibal Psyche]

Thanks for the response. I can get this point of view on the title of emperor. Seems we agree on there having been powerful pirates with influence and territory in the past, they just weren't officially labeled as emperor by the WG or others.

This is what some people don't realise... Emperors are not titles given by the WG.

It's the world that gives it to them. The world see how powerful and influential they are, and then regard them as Emperors. If a Pirate is strong and influential in a way that makes them comparably superior to the majority, they will call them Emperors.

Blackbeard was called one just after 2 years. The WG doesn't give that title.

There would have been people in the past who would have seen similar Pirates, since their power and influence, and called them Emperors or something similar.
Just because there's not a title for something doesn't mean that thing doesn't exist. A lot of this argument is out of ignorance.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 4, 2022, Original Post Date: Feb 4, 2022 ---

The great Pirate age brought about a new balance of power within the world…It started with 2 ppl, Rocks & Roger.

Actually, It started with Roger.

Roger started the great age of piracy.

I'm not sure you know what the age of piracy is. The age of Piracy is simply an age where people decided to become Pirates because Roger said he had treasure that people wanted, so they became Pirates.

It has absolutely nothing to do with Rocks, Rocks was 40 years ago and people barely know he exists. The age of Piracy started 10 years ago in this panel, and started 24 years ago when Roger was executed.

From Rocks who they erased, The emperors appeared out of his crew. & Roger motivated every current and non-existing(Luffy) Pirate to sail the Grand Line…This is why the Warlord system was made. To fight the fire with fire.

Roger didn't motivate Big Mom, Kaido or Whitebeard.

There were Pirates who sailed the Grand Line without being influenced.

In fact, Whitebeard and co were Pirates before they joined Rocks. The greatest Pirates weren't influenced by Roger.

What Roger influenced was the new generation of Pirates from 24 years ago.

Bellamy doesn't believe in Roger and became a Pirate for different reasons.

What you said here is factually wrong and not true.

None of them imo were anywhere close to a threat to the WG like Rocks, Roger or the Emperors.

Elbaph, the WG feared them so much that they didn't want to go to war with their Pirate crew.

Even Whitebeard as powerful as he was didn't want to fight the WG.... you can be a threat, and still not want to fight the WG. Whitebeard only challenged them because he was going their to commit suicide and bring Marineford down with him to end his life as he was getting old and save Ace.

Being as powerful as an Emperor still doesn't mean initiating war.

If anything, the fact Rocks was brave enough to challenge the WG might be proof he was even mightier than the current Emperors of today. It's said he was Roger's GREATEST foe.

If you wanna be so liberal with assigning positions to characters they haven’t been given or listed as. Rocks could easily be seen as a Pirate King….As with White Beard…but they aren’t. As with these other Great Pirates, they weren’t emperors just great Pirates.

Absurd logic to frankly put it.

An Emperor is just a powerful pirate with great influence, as I said, the idea these didn't exist is quite absurd.

Pirate King is a label for finding One Piece, can't give that to anyone, lol. Many Pirates over the many centuries would definitely have been worthy of being considered Emperors, but there's only ever been 1 Pirate King.

Pirate King is a title for an achievement.

Being an Emperor is pretty much natural and something bound to happen. There would always have been few Pirates who stood out among all Pirates that had influence.