Match Yukimura vs Atobe, Who will win?

[Kaoz]

Why didnt he use AK right throughout is 170+ point tie-break with Irie?
Either AK just wasnt working meaning it isnt as absolute as we thought it was, or there was a limit.

Atobe has to be able to focus his Insight on the opponent's absolute blind spots, just like with KnS. So if he's pressured enough or has to use his Insight for something else, he likely can't use it.

Letal however was implying that there was a stamina like limit which we haven't seen anything of.

You dont have to be dominated actually.
Fuwa wasnt necessarily dominated I dont think. He and his CE must make him a powerful player as he must definetely be above Hakamada Izou at least who was pretty good.
It wasnt shown that in rallies Fuwa was getting dominated and BAM!! He suffered Yukimura's brand new Yips which completely destroys the opponent.

If Atobe doesn't get dominated, there should be an opening for AK. If there's an opening for that, he will score, and in that case the requirements for Yips aren't met anymore.

I'll accept its not a given that Yukimura will defeat Atobe, but its just that it showed that technique survives AK when Irie faced Atobe, and in this series out of the MSers, Its kinda fair to say Yukimura has perhaps the best technique out all of them with a few in contention with him.

My example of great technique is the fact that he can easily return FuuRinKaZanRai which would rape all MSers minus Ryoma and Tezuka. (Atobe cant return it).

The thing is that Yukimura uses his technique almost exclusively for defensive purposes. We don't really see him hit shots that are directly into the corner, like say Nakagauchi.

We dont know how good Yuki's technique stat is, but there is a lot of evidence to suggest it is significantly above Atobe's.
Sanada as amongst those at the top of the MS tier is the medium. Atobe couldnt cope against Sanada til WoI arrived. Yukimura can cope.
Atobe struggled and lost to Muga!Ryoma. Yukimura shut it down.

Atobe was said to have had a significantly higher growth during the camp. Sure, for the national level I would agree that Yukimura's stats were far above Atobe's. Now, I'm not so sure about that anymore. I do think they are higher, but the question is by how much.

Also Atobe didn't struggle against Muga!Ryoma (Echizen snapped out of Muga during Samurai Zone).

 

[-Ken-]

Correction:

Uninjure Atobe Kingdom > Non-serious troll mode Irie

We did NOT see a serious Irie until Akiba.

Yeah. Here

Atobe kingdom> normal Irie

Serious Irie> normal Irie

And unless you fail hard at math, you'll know you can't know from this equation that Irie or Atobe at full power can beat reach other for now. Let's leave it at that. We're actually getting way off topic.

 

[Ninomiya]

Yeah. I add second part to my post as what Irie seem to try to do as response to that already.

And fact from manga right now until proven otherwise, Uninjure Atobe Kingdom>Irie. Support hy multiple pages in manga. Your is a theory, for now

http://www.mangareader.net/new-prince-of-tennis/47/3

Tanegashima is telling him to be careful. No mention of a good friend of his almost losing at all.

Atobe was said to have had a significantly higher growth during the camp. Sure, for the national level I would agree that Yukimura's stats were far above Atobe's. Now, I'm not so sure about that anymore. I do think they are higher, but the question is by how much.

Also Atobe didn't struggle against Muga!Ryoma (Echizen snapped out of Muga during Samurai Zone).

So after a new Yips we are confirming Yukimura's technique didnt lift?
I think Technique-wise Yuki is above signficantly above still. The whole thing where he was the only MSer initially chosen and all.

Yeah. Here

Atobe kingdom> normal Irie

Serious Irie> normal Irie

And unless you fail hard at math, you'll know you can't know from this equation that Irie or Atobe at full power can beat reach other for now. Let's leave it at that. We're actually getting way off topic.

Tell us how you can confirm Irie was serious like against Akiba when Akiba taunted his acting.
You cant. Irie's serious mode has only been shown to us coz his acting was dissed which completely made him flip.

Atobe was just getting teased and laughed at during the match by Irie. He was different with Akiba. Im not saying it means Akiba > Atobe at all but I think Irie was much more serious against Akiba than Irie.

Remember this shot? We never saw it with Atobe. Irie wasnt taking him seriously enough.

Remember this face? We never saw it with Atobe. Irie wasnt taking him seriously enough.

 

[-Ken-]

Yeah. Read equation again. I'm not teaching middle school math.

 

[Kaoz]

So after a new Yips we are confirming Yukimura's technique didnt lift?
I think Technique-wise Yuki is above signficantly above still. The whole thing where he was the only MSer initially chosen and all.

1. Getting a power up to Yips doesn't imply anything about his stats getting boosted.
2. However, I never said his stats didn't improve, I just said Atobe's improved by more.
3. You didn't adress Yukimura using his abilities for defensive purposes and we don't know how he would do offensively at this point.

Or in conclusion:

So yeah, Atobe unless his stats are significantly weaker than Yukimura's.

What exactly constitutes significant in this case and whether they are or not, is something we cannot determine.

 

[Ninomiya]

1. Getting a power up to Yips doesn't imply anything about his stats getting boosted.

Then what does it imply? An ability of his has greatly improved so that now once a guy is yipped there will be no more ''Aura saved my life'' moments.
An ability of his greatly improved but it doesnt imply he got better?? Oh right. It just decided to change? Doubt it.

 

[Fayte]

An aura or state of being does not effect a stat sheet, as shown with Kirihara. However, a new technique should at least raise the technique stat. The stat sheet is more referring to physical abilities like running speed, mentality, power, etc. When a character gets a new technique, it is usually the technique stat that will be effected.

 

[Ninomiya]

Yeah. Read equation again. I'm not teaching middle school math.

Can you please read what I showed you. Since you CANNOT confirm Irie was fully serious with Irie.
After Akiba, I now definetely feel Irie > Atobe regardless of injuries haha.

 

[LetalHawk]

@Kaoz, I don't believe that you said that even Atobe improved, he is at Yukimura level.

Yukimura's yips improved, and his stats are also stronger.
http://mangafox.me/manga/new_prince_of_tennis/v04/c027/4.html

There's no way Yukimura's stats didn't improve, also, he was the ONLY MS CHOSEN to face against No.11-20, that shows some skill. And about Atobe Kingdom, it can't work if Yukimura makes him run around the court, if Yukimura gets serious, he can score winners to him. Also, there's no time on how yips comes in. Kintarou got stomped by yips and only played one point, so Yukimura isn't limited to how fast can yips kick in unless the oponent is skilled enough to score points against him.

How can Atobe stand a chance against him? Seriously... that's too much. Yukimura's above pretty much everyone except Tezuka, Sanada (probably) and Echizen. Yukimura can't be beaten unless you have a powerful aura (only Tenimuhou and BA), Atobe's insight isn't enough.

 

[-Ken-]

Can you please read what I showed you. Since you CANNOT confirm Irie was fully serious with Irie.
After Akiba, I now definetely feel Irie > Atobe regardless of injuries haha.

Are you serious? In my equation, I state normal Irie. Not serious Irie. Serious Irie is ONLY in second equation. What that equation say is that you can't draw that Irie is stronger than Atobe and vice versa. If you dont understand, ask your math teacher. To say one is stronger right now between those two is just a matter of fanboyism, not fact from the manga. And I like debating about fact from manga, not debating on fanboyism.

EDIT: I'll try my best. Here,

Let's say

Pre Atobe Kingdom Atobe is 6
Normal (or non serious) Irie is 9

Atobe Kingdom Atobe (uninjured) is X
Serious Irie is Y

And we are given
X>9
Y>9

You can't draw any conclusion of whether or not X or Y (Atobe and Irie) is better in this case. You just can't.

If
X=11
Y=12

or

X=12
Y=11

It will still satisfy the equation. This means that we can't know right know if Atobe and Irie is stronger than one another.

 

[Fosprey]

I will go we this.
Yukimura has been show to completely dominate and shrug off any non Pinnacle of perfection. And In fact he started to fight back vs pinnacle of perfection.

To me this is a clear yukimura win. There is people claiming that Sanada could beat yukimura, yet Sanada was destroyed by yukimura.
Yes now sanada has great training. You still have to accept yukimura has been shown to be too good, and really It doesn't seem logic that Atobe and sanada improved that much to beat Yukimura, much less considering that it seems yukimura improved too.

Yukimura is still probably the best MS below Tezuka. I would say echizen too, but Echizen is broken by an ability that for some reason doesn't use? The power of echizen is mostly plot power, we don't even know if echizen can beat yuki without Pinnacle of perfection.

We also assume 1st stringers are stronger than yuki with no evidence. Yuki is undefeated so far in the camp, and yes 1st stringers bested non perfection echizen, but so did yukimura.

Of course the only true answer is in Konomi head, and there are 2 realities in regard to NPOT one is what the logic dictates according to the information given, and other what Konomi really thinks (it's called word of God for a reason).

Is true that the information given thus far is inconclusive, but overall there is nothing that would really tell us that Atobe could beat yuki. Atobe kingdom hasn't been shown to be so amazing after all, it didn't really win Atobe any game yet.

 

[jimtors]

Yukimura's well improved YIPS technique may be terrifying but if we think about it, usually it works with people with probably a low mental capacity. But Atobe has a high insight prowess and posses a tough mental upholding that can even hold long drawn matches.. But to think about it, it's not a hundred percent that Atobe can be affected by YIPS but it's a hundred percent that ATOBE will be able to use his "Atobe Kingdom" against Yukimura since there's no way to stop someone from looking at you. Even Irie knew that, but couldn't stop it... Just sayin.....

 

[Fosprey]

Yukimura proved that he is so strong regardless of yips, in fact yips only appear to be the icing of the cake. And all mental strength we supposed Atobe have seems to be worth nothing now, since oichi completely got him. If it would have been another player instead of atobe in this match, we all were gonna think Atobe wouldn't fall under oichi dominance, yet is atobe there is, Atobe now is officialy not invencible mentally, as far as we know, not even strong.

 

[-Ken-]

Atobe now is officialy not invencible mentally, as far as we know, not even strong.

Or, you know, Ochi is techniques is VERY powerful since he's one of the top ten players in Japan.

 

[Ninomiya]

Are you serious? In my equation, I state normal Irie. Not serious Irie. Serious Irie is ONLY in second equation. What that equation say is that you can't draw that Irie is stronger than Atobe and vice versa. If you dont understand, ask your math teacher. To say one is stronger right now between those two is just a matter of fanboyism, not fact from the manga. And I like debating about fact from manga, not debating on fanboyism.

It doesnt make you more respected here or ''cooler'' for copying Fayte.
Im saying its unlikely Atobe can defeat Yuki. Your saying Atobe > Irie?
No fanboyism when I give evidence to show Irie has two levels of seriousness. Why wont you accept Irie has showed us two levels of seriousness?

EDIT: I'll try my best. Here,

Let's say

Pre Atobe Kingdom Atobe is 6
Normal (or non serious) Irie is 9

Atobe Kingdom Atobe (uninjured) is X
Serious Irie is Y

And we are given
X>9
Y>9

You can't draw any conclusion of whether or not X or Y (Atobe and Irie) is better in this case. You just can't.

If
X=11
Y=12

or

X=12
Y=11

It will still satisfy the equation. This means that we can't know right know if Atobe and Irie is stronger than one another.

Cool story bro. Pointless equation.
I see what your saying, but why are you ignoring the fact that Konomi showed Irie with an angry expression and what I expect to be fully serious when against Akiba, yet he was laughing and teasing Atobe the whole way through?
Can you reply to that?

---------- Post added at 10:22 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:18 AM ----------

Yukimura's well improved YIPS technique may be terrifying but if we think about it, usually it works with people with probably a low mental capacity. But Atobe has a high insight prowess and posses a tough mental upholding that can even hold long drawn matches.. But to think about it, it's not a hundred percent that Atobe can be affected by YIPS but it's a hundred percent that ATOBE will be able to use his "Atobe Kingdom" against Yukimura since there's no way to stop someone from looking at you. Even Irie knew that, but couldn't stop it... Just sayin.....

What? Not true at all. In fact, very much wrong.
Yes, it destroyed Fuwa and Tooyama who maybe had weak mental's, but Ryoma and Sanada were yipped. Are you telling they had weak mentals?
Yukimura's Yips is extremely powerful as he has yipped Ryoma and Sanada.

Oh? He can DEFINETELY use it? We dont know. As far as Im concerned, Atobe is yet to use AK for MANY games consecutively. So I dont see how we can suggest he cant get yipped. If Ryoma, Tooyama and Sanada did, Atobe most certainly can get yipped.

For Mental-wise he isnt too amazing. Irie screwed him over and Ochi also screwed him over. They arent the best in the camp.

 

[-Ken-]

Actually? Yeah. Irie was piss because his playstyle was diss heavily by his opponent. I thought of it more as mad than serious, to be honest. Atobe word doesn't piss him off.

And even if you were to argue that Irie would have dpne it nonetheless, before he had a chance to go into that mode, Atobe injured himself by accident, making Atobe ability drop and Irie simply doesn't have to go serious like that anymore. So that's a possible explanation. Why would someone like Irie go serious when he don't have to? He could have been like "I guess I don't have to go serious anymore". Irie isn't the type to be all serious if he dont have to. He won't show ability unless he's push enough. And Atobe was injured before he had another chance, most likely.

You evidence doesn't negate my point. I've SEEN the serious Irie. And that is already include into the equation. It doesn't change it. It's just like, here's a 10 (Serious Irie). Did you include 2 in there? (Serious). It's already include. Your point would have make sense to me if I consider Irie and Serious Irie the same. I didn't. So, another evidence, please.

Also, that equation is hardly pointless. It show that base on fact fom manga, you can't say one is better than other. And that is my point. Not that one of them at 100% is more powerful than each other.

 

[Fayte]

Yes, it destroyed Fuwa and Tooyama who maybe had weak mental's, but Ryoma and Sanada were yipped. Are you telling they had weak mentals?

I'm not sure that Sanada and Ryoma have high mentality. Sanada's stubbornness in his match with both Ryoma and Tezuka shows that he lets emotion get in the way of what needs to be done. As for Ryoma, he was stubborn from episode 1. I would say both of them have a weak mental game in their own way.

As for the Irie discussion, I don't see why there is an issue. Irie was "acting" the entire time with Atobe. His anger was also an act. Konomi stapled this theory as fact when he showed us what a serious Irie looks like (Akiba). That Irie was not shown a single time against Atobe. The fact of the matter is, whether we like it or not, (non-serious) Irie let Atobe win.

 

[Brandnewkid]

I'd say that Atobe would still be playing some decent tennis after he's lost his hearing and even his sight, but once he loses his touch it's over.

 

[Ninomiya]

I'd say that Atobe would still be playing some decent tennis after he's lost his hearing and even his sight, but once he loses his touch it's over.

He relies on his sight.
Closed Eyes isnt for everyone. Sanada, Tooyama couldnt cope being blind.
Closed Eyes is used by Nanjiroh, Ryoma, Fuji and Fuwa.

---------- Post added at 02:01 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:59 PM ----------

Actually? Yeah. Irie was piss because his playstyle was diss heavily by his opponent. I thought of it more as mad than serious, to be honest. Atobe word doesn't piss him off.

And even if you were to argue that Irie would have dpne it nonetheless, before he had a chance to go into that mode, Atobe injured himself by accident, making Atobe ability drop and Irie simply doesn't have to go serious like that anymore. So that's a possible explanation. Why would someone like Irie go serious when he don't have to? He could have been like "I guess I don't have to go serious anymore". Irie isn't the type to be all serious if he dont have to. He won't show ability unless he's push enough. And Atobe was injured before he had another chance, most likely.

You evidence doesn't negate my point. I've SEEN the serious Irie. And that is already include into the equation. It doesn't change it. It's just like, here's a 10 (Serious Irie). Did you include 2 in there? (Serious). It's already include. Your point would have make sense to me if I consider Irie and Serious Irie the same. I didn't. So, another evidence, please.

Also, that equation is hardly pointless. It show that base on fact fom manga, you can't say one is better than other. And that is my point. Not that one of them at 100% is more powerful than each other.

Im not getting your point. Do you or do you not consider Irie and Serious Irie the same.
Do you or do you not acknowledge he has different level of seriousness.

I honestly dont think he was fully serious with Atobe as Tanegashima said to him if your not careful they'll pull the rug from under you. Basically saying stop messing around.

 

[-Ken-]

Your point would have make sense to me if I consider Irie and Serious Irie the same. I didn't

And my point is that it DOESN"T matter if Irie was in his full 100% serious with Atobe. BECAUSE Atobe got injured. And from what we've seen, his non-100% serious self got dominated by Atobe with Atobe Kingdom who is not injured. It is only when Atobe get injured that the non-100% serious Irie started getting points.

And for the reason for why that is, look at my seemingly "useless" equation. I'm not explaining that again.