Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[nik87]

Your the one who mention Mihawk in the first place, so you tell me. Also you can't say you 'ignore' it after just answering it as you counter yourself.

I mention the injuries that Mihawk inflicted to Zoro and how long it took him to recover from those. Why are you comparing Zoro to Mihawk, it doesnt answer anything that I asked you? Yes, I can ignore that comparison since it seems like you are answering to some headcanon because I lost you there.

That's why I said could be one of the Nine Scabbard that could heal him up if they have special powers or herbs that can bring Zoro back to strength in time for the festival. Again my idea is a theory, your free to not agree or not. Though just go with it based on the pattern I seen Oda on how he might write for Zoro and for him to get a moment later on as well from M3J. Though, don't rule out possibilities, just saying. How grasping at straws? You think Zoro won't struggle with anyone after he shown with Hawkins? Your the only one thinking he will not from how I seen your posts. You got to get with that he won't breeze through others just because we haven't seen his 100% either. He will struggle and it won't be farfetched of near-death state as you never know?

If your conclusion is based on that a samurai has healing abilities, sure it's an answer, however, the probability of that being true is extremely low as we have nothing that even suggests such thing.
I never said that Zoro will breeze through this arc and that he won't suffer. Zoro and suffering are a package deal, you dont get one without the other.
The probability of near-death state is likely only at the end of the arc, imo. Getting a rematch after such state during same arc has barely any chances to happen as nothing supports that claim, like I already explained.

Why you bringing in Sanji vs Page One? This is about Zoro. Now your trying to get off topic again like usual. Keep it within Zoro talk or your just proving your dodging what we are talking about here. Actually there is as you look at the patterns how Zoro gain a new sword which require one of his previous one destroyed and also he isn't fighting right now and instead on a journey in Wano. A lot of things giving hints on Zoro where he can go. I am not saying this as fact, but just possible routes. Idk where you get the idea that I said all of this is going to happen as I am not sure. Though if Zoro does get a new sword, it would require one of his swords broken and that's a fact as we seen.

I bring Sanji vs P1 as another example of your grasping at straws conclusions, somehow you already concluded that Sanji is dominating the fight which he isn't as we all know. It's all on topic as I am questioning your logic and how you come to these weird conclusions. I am not making this an off topic discussion about Sanji, I am making it off topic discussion about your conclusions.
Zoro getting a new sword doesnt require one sword to be broken, you have to be open to more possibilities.
Zoro is on a journey and isnt fighting is important because of what? What are you using that for?
I didn't say that you claimed it as a fact, I simply questioned you how you came to those conclusions. You are bringing our other debates into this one so if you check I never said that you claimed this as a fact.

You got learn to read back on character instead of saying 'not proof enough' like you said to others. Be more open-minded instead of wanting Zoro as a 'perfect being' when he isn't.

Zoro is perfection manifested in a human form.

 

[afromarco005]

Seems like your talking more about yourself than me. End of the day you started the talk of Mihawk brought in while I was talking on something else. Heck I wasn't even speaking to you and just to M3J. Only one without control and baseless is you getting involve and can't seem to accept that.

Hmmm....Interesting....For once I figure you would shoehorn Zoro to be durable than this, but I guess I was wrong on how far you fanboyism take it. You surprise me, but just a little bit. Glad you have limits on Zoro on what he takes even though it's minor on your side.

Nope, just your mind. I wasn't even posting to you and you insert in getting involve in this.

Duh, of course it's obvious. You didn't really need to post that as everyone knew it. I was agreeing with you for once, but seems you can't read the context as always. Though whatever you want to try to make opinion with sense in it.

Nah, I am good. I already know the misused of context of your post and beside don't do with those who don't look back on mine.

Awww....You actually see me as your Luffy to your Zoro XD? Didn't think you have a big 'heart' on seeing that much in our talks. Though you are interesting to debate with (So as long fanboyism doesn't affect your mind).

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2019 ---

Though who start the first post on going after me? Just you and Afro. I posted to M3J to have a discussion, but you guys choose to want to get involve and think I was serious in my theory on wanting to happen when I was just suggesting. You bring the trouble along with you this time. Not weird or wrong as the logic there, but yours and Afro goes a long way in the end especially trolling doesn't help on what you guys doing to be serious.

No no no moe-kun.

Spoiler

You are taking the easy way out calling people trolls and not adressing the points they raised.

I debunked your theory plain and simple, I didn't attack your opinions, unless you make a confusion between both.

Still waiting for proof or a quote of me saying that Sanji's bounty won't ever surpass Zoro's, if you claim something then back it up with some proof, even more so when you accuse someone of something.

 

[M3J]

n we seeing more curse blades coming around and Oda bringing back the topic, so if it's just pointless lore, then I don't think he would bring it back another time with another sword. Could mean something, but again just a theory in my mind. I respect your idea on the curse will eventuality come back to save him as he overcomes it more too.

I'm sure it's just to hype up the blades, they seem to be pretty powerful and durable. As I said, the cursed blades thing is probably used to hype the blades and set them apart from most other blades, as well as establish Zoro as a fearless character for taking the swords and even willing to see if fate is okay with him having the swords.

 

[King Moe]

I'm sure it's just to hype up the blades, they seem to be pretty powerful and durable. As I said, the cursed blades thing is probably used to hype the blades and set them apart from most other blades, as well as establish Zoro as a fearless character for taking the swords and even willing to see if fate is okay with him having the swords.

Hmmm...Again probably so, but would it be that straightforward about it as I feel Oda might put Zoro to a trial of character development through the side he is on right now. There is many routes it can take, but I respect what you mean as it could be way to hype it up, but would it be that direct only?

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 18, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 18, 2019 ---

No no no moe-kun.

Spoiler

You are taking the easy way out calling people trolls and not adressing the points they raised.

I debunked your theory plain and simple, I didn't attack your opinions, unless you make a confusion between both.

Still waiting for proof or a quote of me saying that Sanji's bounty won't ever surpass Zoro's, if you claim something then back it up with some proof, even more so when you accuse someone of something.

I did address them, but your not trying to answer mine back. Also not gonna waste much time if your bother trolling about how I speak in my post then take a serious discussion. Wasn't even going for a talk for you guys in the first place, you know that, right?

Hard to see it like that when your first sentence was mocking my own, so not gonna believe you on that regard, let alone you try putting away my theory.

Been stated in the Sanji's Discussion. Everyone knows how you feel about Sanji. Now let's not change the topic and get back on track or do you want the mods to delete our whole conversation like before. No more posting after this one if you want it to end for good.

 

[thedude]

Thanks for confirming your baseless logic, that's all I wanted from you, so everyone else can see that you talk some irrelevant stuff. @thedude maybe you understand his logic and care to explain?

Again, you are taking his opinions or theories and saying they are logical errors. But they are just opinions, or in this case, thoughts on how he'd like the arc to go. If his theories or ideas on how he'd like the arc to go is "bad logic" then again, what about your "hey, look at how that girl offered Zoro water...I think that represents Wano wanting to make Zoro the Shogun". Well...actually, that was your logic...so, again, you really don't want to be attacking other people on this line of thought, because buddy...we can talk...

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 19, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 19, 2019 ---

I'm sure it's just to hype up the blades, they seem to be pretty powerful and durable. As I said, the cursed blades thing is probably used to hype the blades and set them apart from most other blades, as well as establish Zoro as a fearless character for taking the swords and even willing to see if fate is okay with him having the swords.

Yeah, i totally agree, there isn't a curse that will be shown, it was just a way to hype the blades when they were introduced. "Misfortune befalls those who carry them", and then Zoro tested it on himself, and found the blade to be agreeable to him. That was basically the end of the "curse". It's just a strong blade that for some reason only Zoro has been able to use without dying. And the moment was bad ass, him sticking his arm out like "take it if you want sword, i'm not afraid of you".

 

[nik87]

Again, you are taking his opinions or theories and saying they are logical errors. But they are just opinions, or in this case, thoughts on how he'd like the arc to go. If his theories or ideas on how he'd like the arc to go is "bad logic" then again, what about your "hey, look at how that girl offered Zoro water...I think that represents Wano wanting to make Zoro the Shogun". Well...actually, that was your logic...so, again, you really don't want to be attacking other people on this line of thought, because buddy...we can talk...

What I wanted from you is to explain his logic. The logic of comparing Zoro to Mihawk as the answer to a question of how he got to his conclusion of a rematch after near-death state defeat during the same arc.
Besides, to get to some conclusion you have to use some logic, some reasoning had to happen to get you to have an opinion, it doesn't just fall out of the sky so why are you separating logic and opinion when they go hand in hand?

My theory of the girl offering Zoro water being a foreshadowing of Wano country asking Zoro to take the role of Shogun has some reasoning behind it, it uses logic. Again, it's a theory, a possible outcome I can see happening, whether it will happen or not is another story.

Anyway, you dont have to explain his logic as I wont bother arguing it out.

 

[nik87]

@thedude Zoro has beaten Mr 1 during the same fight, it was not a rematch. Once Zoro loses and is defeated to near-death state he is out for several arcs, this has been consistent since forever.
I don't have a problem with anyone's logic(yes it's logic, not sure why are you separating it from opinion and theories) when it comes to theorizing, I picked Moe's theory as an example.
However, when it comes to factual things, things that already happened Moe's logic is very weird as his opinion(logic/reasoning) is very often different from the most and he responds to each of them saying the complete opposite. It creates unnecessary debates, that's the logic, reasoning and thought process which lead to his opinion, that I was wondering about...

But yeah, I am not interested in it anymore as it leads nowhere so, like you said, I'm gonna chill with a jab to his logic here and there occasionally.

 

[M3J]

Once Zoro loses and is defeated to near-death state he is out for several arcs, this has been consistent since forever.

This is technically incorrect. Zoro's only loss was to Mihawk, but almost every time he got hurt, he still fought in the arc after. He technically did lose to Kuma as well, but he still fought the gorillas despite injuries, which impressed Mihawk. Life-threatening injuries aren't enough to keep Zoro down for long, and the Arlong Park arc proved that.

 

[nik87]

This is technically incorrect. Zoro's only loss was to Mihawk, but almost every time he got hurt, he still fought in the arc after. He technically did lose to Kuma as well, but he still fought the gorillas despite injuries, which impressed Mihawk. Life-threatening injuries aren't enough to keep Zoro down for long, and the Arlong Park arc proved that.

Near-death state injuries can only happen in the final battle of the arc when no rematch is pending and under the assumption that the next arc won't require fresh Zoro going all out.

Injured during Baratie arc, yes he fought in the next Arlong park arc but with barely staying conscious it didnt require him going all out and he didnt have a tough opponent. Next were Loguetown, Whiskey Peak, Little Garden and then Drum Island and if I remember correctly he said during Drum Island arc that his wound from Mihawk has finally healed. How long did it take, huh?

Injured during Thriller Bark, yes he fought during Sabaody but again, giving bad performance due to injuries from the previous arc, yes he fought baboons but still injured but they were merely training, not the arcs final opponent that would require him going all out, Impel down and Marineford came and passed while Zoro was still injured, we didnt see him fully healed until the reunion.

The point I am making is obvious, near-death state injuries can only happen at the arc's final battle when no rematch is pending and even such scenario is questionable considering the point of the story we are in and considering how long it takes for Zoro to fully recover. One Piece is wrapping up, only high tier of opponents are left standing, Zoro and basically all other Strawhats, except Luffy, can't afford near-death state injuries which would prevent them from being fresh in the next fight.

 

[Pirate Queen]

This is technically incorrect. Zoro's only loss was to Mihawk, but almost every time he got hurt, he still fought in the arc after. He technically did lose to Kuma as well, but he still fought the gorillas despite injuries, which impressed Mihawk. Life-threatening injuries aren't enough to keep Zoro down for long, and the Arlong Park arc proved that.

I think he lost to enel as well, I may be wrong

 

[nik87]

I think he lost to enel as well, I may be wrong

Technically yes, no one was able to combat Enel at that point in time except the guy with natural resistance to Enel's devil fruit.
The best performance, aside from Luffy, came from Wiper since he used sea stone to neutralize the DF. Zoro tried to use it as well but was defeated before he could do anything.

 

[M3J]

Injured during Baratie arc, yes he fought in the next Arlong park arc but with barely staying conscious it didnt require him going all out and he didnt have a tough opponent. Next were Loguetown, Whiskey Peak, Little Garden and then Drum Island and if I remember correctly he said during Drum Island arc that his wound from Mihawk has finally healed. How long did it take, huh?

Injured during Thriller Bark, yes he fought during Sabaody but again, giving bad performance due to injuries from the previous arc, yes he fought baboons but still injured but they were merely training, not the arcs final opponent that would require him going all out, Impel down and Marineford came and passed while Zoro was still injured, we didnt see him fully healed until the reunion.

The point I am making is obvious, near-death state injuries can only happen at the arc's final battle when no rematch is pending and even such scenario is questionable considering the point of the story we are in and considering how long it takes for Zoro to fully recover. One Piece is wrapping up, only high tier of opponents are left standing, Zoro and basically all other Strawhats, except Luffy, can't afford near-death state injuries which would prevent them from being fresh in the next fight.

My bad, the arguments here killed my ability to read completely.

To be fair though, he stood no chance against the Pacifistas, Sentomaru, or Kizaru anyway. And the baboons were strong enough that Mihawk was impressed that they lost. Zoro seems to recover pretty quickly though, all three of them do. At least, I'm assuming with Sanji based on what Kureha said.

In any case, the next fight might not be a challenge to the other Straw Hats, so Zoro can afford to get injured horribly time to time.

I think he lost to enel as well, I may be wrong

Yep.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I think (and I'm going to assume this is a very unpopular opinion) that Oda is incredibly careful not to box Zoro in with an opponent that can easily defeat him or leave him in a near death state at this point in the story.

Even when faced with an admiral, Zoro wasnt forced to fight his way out of the situation because he wasnt the target and Doflamingo never even acknowledged Zoro was troublesome. Oda is careful to put Zoro up against only people he has a chance to beat.

I also think it is because Oda is trying to limit Zoro's losses.

 

[King Moe]

I think (and I'm going to assume this is a very unpopular opinion) that Oda is incredibly careful not to box Zoro in with an opponent that can easily defeat him or leave him in a near death state at this point in the story.

Even when faced with an admiral, Zoro wasnt forced to fight his way out of the situation because he wasnt the target and Doflamingo never even acknowledged Zoro was troublesome. Oda is careful to put Zoro up against only people he has a chance to beat.

I also think it is because Oda is trying to limit Zoro's losses.

Idk about that. If he always breeze through opponents, it be incredibly boring and doubt he do that as while Luffy and others struggle with serious enemies, he should too. Just because he trying to be WSS in time, doesn't mean he can't lose a fight or can't struggle as Luffy want to be PK, but still struggles and loses from time to time. It makes it feel realistic and deserving that way.

Doubt Oda is now being careful over after in pre-timeskip he did so many times even after his vow to Luffy. Sure we gonna see it again soon as Zoro need to feel like he earns his dreams by facing heavy challenges more instead of breezing through them.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Idk about that. If he always breeze through opponents, it be incredibly boring and doubt he do that as while Luffy and others struggle with serious enemies, he should too. Just because he trying to be WSS in time, doesn't mean he can't lose a fight or can't struggle as Luffy want to be PK, but still struggles and loses from time to time. It makes it feel realistic and deserving that way.

Doubt Oda is now being careful over after in pre-timeskip he did so many times even after his vow to Luffy. Sure we gonna see it again soon as Zoro need to feel like he earns his dreams by facing heavy challenges more instead of breezing through them.

Can you prove me wrong tho? Zoro has been breezing through opponents in the New World and his fights have been boring for the most part.

H's had 2 possibly interesting fights with opponents that was at his level or above.

Vs. Fujitora
Vs. Hawkins

Both would have been entertaining but Oda though best not to have him fight either in a prolonged fight.

 

[King Moe]

Can you prove me wrong tho? Zoro has been breezing through opponents in the New World and his fights have been boring for the most part.

H's had 2 possibly interesting fights with opponents that was at his level or above.

Vs. Fujitora
Vs. Hawkins

Both would have been entertaining but Oda though best not to have him fight either in a prolonged fight.

True, but that still indicates that he can struggle and he is bound to face a heavy challenge in Wano as if he didn't do good fashion against Hawkins in the same arc, he bound to get a struggle or worse from that hinted. Plus if Zoro is destined to face Orochi's or King in the arc, it be very poor if he makes it another breeze through as Oda can't enforce that as they get deeper into facing tough enemies down the lines as well near the end of OP.

So don't think it be like that in this arc and down the line. We just have to wait and see on what happens.

 

[Pirate Queen]

True, but that still indicates that he can struggle and he is bound to face a heavy challenge in Wano as if he didn't do good fashion against Hawkins in the same arc, he bound to get a struggle or worse from that hinted. Plus if Zoro is destined to face Orochi's or King in the arc, it be very poor if he makes it another breeze through as Oda can't enforce that as they get deeper into facing tough enemies down the lines as well near the end of OP.

So don't think it be like that in this arc and down the line. We just have to wait and see on what happens.

How long have we been in New World? Years.

We've waited long enough lol

 

[King Moe]

How long have we been in New World? Years.

We've waited long enough lol

Yeah, that's why now we in Yonko Saga, we can expect more struggle and maybe loses from Zoro as this won't be end of the crew facing more challenges later on.

 

[hokageji]

an you prove me wrong tho? Zoro has been breezing through opponents in the New World and his fights have been boring for the most part.

H's had 2 possibly interesting fights with opponents that was at his level or above.

Vs. Fujitora
Vs. Hawkins

Both would have been entertaining but Oda though best not to have him fight either in a prolonged fight.

Now that i think of it, Zoro's only achievement has been taking down Pica. Even there, the really good one was haki to cut Pica. The stone golem was not as impressive as Law cutting the island off.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Now that i think of it, Zoro's only achievement has been taking down Pica. Even there, the really good one was haki to cut Pica. The stone golem was not as impressive as Law cutting the island off.

There in lies my frustration.

Luffy's goal is to be Pirate King, he is putting in WORK with everything he has accomplished

Zoro has a goal, not as difficult but still worth while and he hasn't made a single stride to get there.

He has defeated ANY famous swordsmen and I know he can. His portrayal has been awful.

--- Double Post Merged, Feb 21, 2019, Original Post Date: Feb 21, 2019 ---

There is no reason why Oda couldn't make Pica a famous New World Swordsman, but he was reduced to a coward who hid in stone.

This is entirely Oda's fault, I know but it still sucks