Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

Is It a Requirement for Zoro to have Conqueror's Haki?


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afromarco005

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Luffy can't beat Kaido until the end of the arc - and it might be inconclusive to say he outright beats Kaido even after the L. So Luffy is approaching Shanks but needs the Kaido fight to rival Shanks in power.

Zoro also needs to level up thru fighting. He has to beat a YC first. To beat Mihawk all 3 swords need to be black and Zoro's haki has to be at least as strong. Might take a few more arcs to get there.
I agree there is no way Zoro is on Mihawk or even Shanks level right now. Thats his endgame goal.

I still dont see how Luffy will beat Kaido even if he can hurt the guy he was still one shotted by a single club swing how does he overcome such a gap in a few days of prison??
 

thedude

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I agree there is no way Zoro is on Mihawk or even Shanks level right now. Thats his endgame goal.

I still dont see how Luffy will beat Kaido even if he can hurt the guy he was still one shotted by a single club swing how does he overcome such a gap in a few days of prison??
Wasn't Oden basically one shotted by that same club, despite being on the verge of beating Kaido? So I don't see that as an impediment. He can take hits from Kaido I'm sure, and we'll see it when they fight.
 

King Moe

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That's like saying luffy wont be as strong as gold roger
EoS luffy is similar to roger
EoS zoro is similar to rayleigh

Just telling you how writing in OP is
Rayleigh isn't on same level as Yonkos as shown. We don't even know how strong his Prime was. Doubt he can beat any of Yonkos in a full fight especially Whitebeard and Shanks.
--- Double Post Merged, , Original Post Date: ---

You do not and cannot know that for certain. But I respect your opinion.

Anyways we are only only a few dozens of chapters away from seeing where Zoro stands power level wise.

If he cuts Kaido (not defeats Kaido) then it's safe to assume he will be around that level or stronger by the end of the series.
Nah by portrayal and feats are shown. Shanks is shown superior over Mihawk. You can see that. They used to be equals, but Shanks surpassed him. It's like Kaido and Moria, but somewhat lesser as Mihawk is still strong, but he not at Yonko and Admiral level as MF shown.
 

Grandmaster Woro

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Rayleigh isn't on same level as Yonkos as shown. We don't even know how strong his Prime was.
He was fighting evenly against admiral at his old age. His prime should be as good as yonko bar WB and roger
EoS zoro is yonko tier, whether u like it or not
 

King Moe

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He was fighting evenly against admiral at his old age. His prime should be as good as yonko bar WB and roger
EoS zoro is yonko tier, whether u like it or not
Still stated if he was younger, he be more fit, but Old Rayleigh wouldn't take on Admirals for long. He even couldn't take on Garp and Sengoku in their Prime too.

Idk about that, but not stronger than Whitebeard and Shanks that's for sure.
 

King Moe

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where and when was this mentioned?
Garp and Sengoku that Roger stated only ones who can kill him from Navy side. From what we seen of Garp, he is PK Tier level and Sengoku would be close to his level as well. You think Rayleigh can beat them in full fight? I don't see that likely especially Garp one.
 

M3J

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Link me, don't give me your assumptions or conclusions. Pirate King level doesn't exist anyway, not since Luffy/Usopp mentioned that one could become Pirate King without fighting the Emperors.

Though, I can see Zoro becoming as strong as an Emperor, if not be slightly weaker. He, Sanji, and Jinbei will have to get strong enough to fight with almost any enemy, especially admirals if Luffy's to fight the fleet admiral.
 

King Moe

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Link me, don't give me your assumptions or conclusions. Pirate King level doesn't exist anyway, not since Luffy/Usopp mentioned that one could become Pirate King without fighting the Emperors.

Though, I can see Zoro becoming as strong as an Emperor, if not be slightly weaker. He, Sanji, and Jinbei will have to get strong enough to fight with almost any enemy, especially admirals if Luffy's to fight the fleet admiral.
What evidence do you have to say Rayleigh could be both in a fight cause you respectfully you got nothing to support how strong Prime Rayleigh is and don't use his Old state since when you get older, your much stronger than while you still growing in your Prime.

Idk about strong as Yonko given his fight history and where Mihawk stance, but I know for sure he isn't going to be stronger than Whitebeard and Shanks that's for sure. Sanji can be at that level with Zoro where they close or equal to certain Yonkos given their rivalry and closest to Luffy's power while Jimbei might be up there, but at that point gap between Sanji and Zoro to Jimbei will be significant given Jimbei is more in his Prime right now. Don't think he reach that high. At best he is YC1+ or at least Admiral level.
 

nik87

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The Black Blade aka Kokuto... What is it and what does it represent? This is my theory:

Gyukimaru told us that Shusui became black blade along Ryuma's many battles. While it is unclear what happens during many battles, we can assume one thing - Color of Armament gets improved more and more. Mihawk is said to have had many battles as well, according to his vivre card, he dueled strong swordsmen until he no longer had anyone left to duel.

Now, a lot of characters have a very high level of Color of Armament but why do they lack a black blade? Is their CoA weaker?
We should remember how Mihawk described himself - I am not a brute who hunts rabbits with a cannon. Another thing that Mihawk said was - Without subtlety, the sword is but an iron bar. I dont think that Kokutos are forged mid-battle.

While all the big names have large amounts of Color of Armament what they lack compared to Mihawk and Ryuma are control and precision, they are brutes after all. Now, the forging process of a black blade requires two components - Hardening and Flow, better said unparalleled levels of Hardening and impeccable control over the Flow.
While those levels of Hardening may be achievable for more individuals other than Ryuma and Mihawk, their control over the Flow probably fell short and is the reason why they never managed to forge a black blade. They probably tried but failed.

Many have noticed that Roger, Rayleigh and Shanks have used different swords during different times when we saw them in the manga.
Question is - Why? It is because they tried to forge a Kokuto and failed. Why would they change swords if they couldnt forge a Kokuto?
Because the failure of that process results in swords being shattered in pieces!

The process itself is the following - the Hardening needs to be so strong that it creates immense pressure on the blade, to the point that it starts combusting but such pressure eventually breaks the blade. Now, what prevents it from breaking is top-notch control over the Flow which "holds" the blade together by evenly distributing the pressure on all points of the blade. If that pressure distribution gets disrupted even a little, the result is the inevitable destruction of the blade.
The benefit of a black blade could be only what we already know - an object with incredible hardness. Basically, an invincible shield. Is there anything better that a swordsman could ask for?

That brings me to Zoro's attempt of forging a black blade in Wano. While his Hardening could have already achieved such levels that it could combust the blade, the control over the Flow is still not at required level but it took a step closer - that is what getting used to Enma is for, the control over the flow.
He will try to forge Enma into a Kokuto but he will fail and the blade will be shattered. Nidai Kitetsu will take its place after Wano, that blade has no other purpose than eventually ending up at Zoro's hip, nobody else wishes for a cursed blade.
So far, I think this theory works pretty well.
 

M3J

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What evidence do you have to say Rayleigh could be both in a fight cause you respectfully you got nothing to support how strong Prime Rayleigh is and don't use his Old state since when you get older, your much stronger than while you still growing in your Prime.

Idk about strong as Yonko given his fight history and where Mihawk stance, but I know for sure he isn't going to be stronger than Whitebeard and Shanks that's for sure. Sanji can be at that level with Zoro where they close or equal to certain Yonkos given their rivalry and closest to Luffy's power while Jimbei might be up there, but at that point gap between Sanji and Zoro to Jimbei will be significant given Jimbei is more in his Prime right now. Don't think he reach that high. At best he is YC1+ or at least Admiral level.
You're the one who made the claim, you should back it up, not me.

I also don't see why Jinbei can't get stronger, he's not that old yet, and he, Zoro, and Sanji would benefit more from having a friendly rivalry.
 

Pirate Queen

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You're the one who made the claim, you should back it up, not me.

I also don't see why Jinbei can't get stronger, he's not that old yet, and he, Zoro, and Sanji would benefit more from having a friendly rivalry.
Brook is 80 and has been steadily getting stronger,
 
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King Moe

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Yeeeeaaaaaah....Zoro solo any YC or even try to fight Kaido himself is no null and void if Apoo brought him to his knees from non-serious attack and he choose to run away than fight or at least try to slash him before heading out.

This is like 3rd Supernova and 5th fight that make him hype tool and look really a chump. He isn't fighting any top tier solo. He going need a squad for Orochi to help him face him especially tricky and durable DF users to have a chance with YC lvl opponent.
 

Fox666

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Zoro running away makes sense. They decided to jump right in the middle of the enemy forces like the Strawhats always do, but realized it was a mistake with a Yonko crew.
 
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M3J

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Zoro was smart to run away. He can be stronger than them and still run away because there's tons of enemies with smile devil fruit out there... why would he risk getting hurt before the main fights? His aim right now isn't to obliterate anyone standing in his way, it's to make sure the plan succeeds and Wano is free from the horrible people.
 

King Moe

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Zoro running away makes sense. They decided to jump right in the middle of the enemy forces like the Strawhats always do, but realized it was a mistake with a Yonko crew.
Zoro should have known better especially he didn't try to use Enma to strike back which would be good chance, but choose to run away without at least stopping Apoo by some means.
 
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Grandmaster Woro

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Yeeeeaaaaaah....Zoro solo any YC or even try to fight Kaido himself is no null and void if Apoo brought him to his knees from non-serious attack and he choose to run away than fight or at least try to slash him before heading out.

This is like 3rd Supernova and 5th fight that make him hype tool and look really a chump. He isn't fighting any top tier solo. He going need a squad for Orochi to help him face him especially tricky and durable DF users to have a chance with YC lvl opponent.
But this is also what you said
Zoro should have known better especially he didn't try to use Enma to strike back which would be good chance, but choose to run away without at least stopping Apoo by some means.
That means zoro hasn't even been remotely serious against apoo.
Zoro will either fight king or assist luffy against kaido.
 
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Fox666

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Zoro should have known better especially he didn't try to use Enma to strike back which would be good chance, but choose to run away without at least stopping Apoo by some means.
That would be a terrible strategy. They are in the middle of the enemy forces, with Apoo and an All-Star in front them. Besides more enemies like Apoo could have jumped in.

That means zoro hasn't even been remotely serious against apoo.
I don't see how this count as not being "serious". Maybe he wasn't ready to fight someone like Apoo all of sudden.

Apoo proved to be dangerous, he wouldn't go down easily. Fighting him would only give time for the enemies to call reinforcements.
 
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