Discussion Zoro Discussion Thread

[grey matter]

Without Enma, Zoro's haki would not be were it currently is. That is a fact. While he worked very hard to master Enma and should be praised for it, if he was a battle genius like you claim he wouldn't have needed a "training tool" to help him unlock ACoC.

Zoro would have unlocked it eventually but it was a huge shortcut for him.

Without Enma I doubt he would have defeated King

Everyone needed their training tool for advanced haki.
Katakuri was Luffy's "training tool" for FS, observed and fought it for idk 12 hours?
Hyogoro taught his advanced armament (which infact facilitates for advanced conqueror's)

Zoro's natural talent is up there with Luffy's.
He learned how to cut steel mid fight, breath of all things. Learned how to do flying slashes on his own. Demonstrates a never before seen variant of conqueror's haki in Asura. etc.


Obviously yeah, King folds Zoro if he didn't have Enma. No advanced conqueror's = lose.
But then again, Oda could've randomly made Zoro that powerful like he did for Law and Kid lmao. At least I'm glad that Zoro had a more legit reason to be as powerful as he is now.

 

[kkck]

We saw Luffy learn foresight mid-fight. I think Zoro could do the same if he were to ever fight an opponent with FS. He copied Kinemon’s Firefox style by just seeing him use it, learnt Haki on the fly mid-fight, figured out a way to counter Ohm, figured out King’s weakness. He’s a battle genius like Luffy or Goku and has broken his limits to win against superior opponents before.

I don't rule out zoro getting two or three consecutive haki upgrades in the middle of his next fight. That's very much in line with what we have seen before. Though the most likely scenario is that zoro will learn those off screen. My post was more about zoro at this point in time falling short of admirals over his last seen limitations. Once he clears those he is golden.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I

Everyone needed their training tool for advanced haki.
Katakuri was Luffy's "training tool" for FS, observed and fought it for idk 12 hours?
Hyogoro taught his advanced armament (which infact facilitates for advanced conqueror's)

Zoro's natural talent is up there with Luffy's.
He learned how to cut steel mid fight, breath of all things. Learned how to do flying slashes on his own. Demonstrates a never before seen variant of conqueror's haki in Asura. etc.


Obviously yeah, King folds Zoro if he didn't have Enma. No advanced conqueror's = lose.
But then again, Oda could've randomly made Zoro that powerful like he did for Law and Kid lmao. At least I'm glad that Zoro had a more legit reason to be as powerful as he is now.

Luffy training through grueling battle is far different than getting a training tool with the express purpose of learning greater haki control/output. I'm talking solely in the sense that Luffy is a battle genius far above the level of Zoro.

Zoro being given enma ND learning greater haki techniques is a black a white difference than learning fs by fighting a fs user or learning Acoc by getting hammered by ACoC attack and learning how to do it. That compassion is nonsense

If the argument that competency then yes zoro is as battle competent as the best of them.

And again, I'm not taking a single thing away from zoro but the comparisons to luffy are ridiculous

 

[grey matter]

Luffy training through grueling battle is far different than getting a training tool with the express purpose of learning greater haki control/output. I'm talking solely in the sense that Luffy is a battle genius far above the level of Zoro.

What I'm saying is Zoro had learned some wack stuff mid fighting too. Breath of all things, Asura etc.

Them getting advanced armament happened in the same time frame.
Hyogoro was Luffy's teacher.
Enma was Zoro's "teacher"

Luffy got to learn more mid fight post TS simply because only he got multiple true fights since TS that pushed him to level up mid fight. Zoro only really got pushed during raid in rooftop and against King, everything else post TS was a cakewalk for him.

And again, I'm not taking a single thing away from zoro but the comparisons to luffy are ridiculous

Nah, not really ridiculous. Luffy is obviously stronger by a decent margin, but we're arguing raw talent for learning/powerup here.

Zoro learning to cut steel mid fight was akin to Luffy learning FS. In the sense that both these powerups were requirements for Zoro/Luffy to win their matchup against Mr1/Katakuri.
Point is, Zoro has demonstrated that he can learn abilities needed to get wins mid fight, if that is what is required. Ultimately, the point is that yeah Zoro is a powerup below someone like Kizaru but if Oda really wants to, he can have Zoro grow mid fight and get the win. And it wouldn't even feel BS.

 

[Pirate Queen]

What I'm saying is Zoro had learned some wack stuff mid fighting too. Breath of all things, Asura etc.

Them getting advanced armament happened in the same time frame.
Hyogoro was Luffy's teacher.
Enma was Zoro's "teacher"

Luffy got to learn more mid fight post TS simply because only he got multiple true fights since TS that pushed him to level up mid fight. Zoro only really got pushed during raid in rooftop and against King, everything else post TS was a cakewalk for him.




Nah, not really ridiculous. Luffy is obviously stronger by a decent margin, but we're arguing raw talent for learning/powerup here.

Zoro learning to cut steel mid fight was akin to Luffy learning FS. In the sense that both these powerups were requirements for Zoro/Luffy to win their matchup against Mr1/Katakuri.
Point is, Zoro has demonstrated that he can learn abilities needed to get wins mid fight, if that is what is required. Ultimately, the point is that yeah Zoro is a powerup below someone like Kizaru but if Oda really wants to, he can have Zoro grow mid fight and get the win. And it wouldn't even feel BS.

It would definitely be bs if a yc1 defeated an admiral when we haven't seen any other yc1 come close.

Unless Zoro can find another yonko level training tool sword he has no chance of beating an admiral without a decent amount of help. Mid battle power-packed or not.

 

[grey matter]

It would definitely be bs if a yc1 defeated an admiral when we haven't seen any other yc1 come close.

Unless Zoro can find another yonko level training tool sword he has no chance of beating an admiral without a decent amount of help. Mid battle power-packed or not.

Why pretend like Zoro is some average YC1? Current Zoro is a tier above characters like King.
He is just one powerup away from being on admiral/yonko level.

Luffy went from being low diff material to Kaido, to where he is now. Through a couple of powerups. Zoro can grow mid fight to reach the same.

 

[Pirate Queen]

Why pretend like Zoro is some average YC1? Current Zoro is a tier above characters like King.
He is just one powerup away from being on admiral/yonko level.

Luffy went from being low diff material to Kaido, to where he is now. Through a couple of powerups. Zoro can grow mid fight to reach the same.

I disagree completely. Without help, even with a power up he isn't beating an admiral just yet

 

[grey matter]

I disagree completely. Without help, even with a power up he isn't beating an admiral just yet

You have Law (someone you seemingly believe is in same tier as Zoro) give Blackbeard a good fight. Give Law one more powerup and he's up there.
So why not Zoro?

Why can Luffy go from being low diff material in 1000 to high diff material by 1026?
Just a singe powerup between those two really.

 

[Pirate Queen]

You have Law (someone you seemingly believe is in same tier as Zoro) give Blackbeard a good fight. Give Law one more powerup and he's up there.
So why not Zoro?

Why can Luffy go from being low diff material in 1000 to high diff material by 1026?
Just a singe powerup between those two really.

While in the same tier I have Law comfortably above Zoro mainly due to hax

You are vastly underestimating Admirals. Even as a Luffy fan I am not fully confident Luffy can solo one outright, though it's likely he could.

If Zoro gets another blade like Enma that can allow him to skip days, weeks, or even months of training I can see it happening but outside of that? I find it ridiculous. Again only if he doesn't have help.

I think Sanji and Zoro can beat Kizaru. Even Jinbei and Zoro.

I think that's all I'm going to say on the matter though. Not much else I can say to advance the discussion really.

As to your last point, Luffy's growth rate is insanely illogical and that's what makes him so powerful/dangerous. Zoro does not have that same growth level.

 

[Fox666]

It would definitely be bs if a yc1 defeated an admiral when we haven't seen any other yc1 come close.

Right after King's defeat, Ryokugyu comes in and say it would be humiliating if an Admiral couldn't take on "underlings" like them.

So the author has already made it obvious how much distance there's yet.

Why pretend like Zoro is some average YC1? Current Zoro is a tier above characters like King.

No he isn't. Zoro had to push himself to the limit to defeat King.

Marco is the one who is truly above King. And the difference between them is clear.

While in the same tier I have Law comfortably above Zoro mainly due to hax

You are vastly underestimating Admirals. Even as a Luffy fan I am not fully confident Luffy can solo one outright, though it's likely he could.

If Zoro gets another blade like Enma that can allow him to skip days, weeks, or even months of training I can see it happening but outside of that? I find it ridiculous. Again only if he doesn't have help.

I think Sanji and Zoro can beat Kizaru. Even Jinbei and Zoro.

I think that's all I'm going to say on the matter though. Not much else I can say to advance the discussion really.

As to your last point, Luffy's growth rate is insanely illogical and that's what makes him so powerful/dangerous. Zoro does not have that same growth level.

Eh, Luffy grow based on what the plot requires.

If Zoro had to fight a Yonko-level opponent next arc, the author would make him step to that level.

However, as far we know Shiryu is guaranteed as a rival for Zoro, so Zoro won't has to make this power-up yet.

Besides, Mihawk is Zoro's end goal. Yonko-level means his arc is over.

 

[LadyVados]

However, as far we know Shiryu is guaranteed as a rival for Zoro, so Zoro won't has to make this power-up yet.

Besides, Mihawk is Zoro's end goal. Yonko-level means his arc is over.

What if his next opponent is Aokiji ?

And BB is Luffy’s end goal, if he were Yonko-level that means his arc is over. You see the fallacy ?

 

[Fox666]

What if his next opponent is Aokiji ?

What if Zoro next opponent is any random character? I don't see point of arguing like that.

Story-wise I don't see why Zoro would fight Aokiji. There's even a cover art with Zoro and Shilliew.

And BB is Luffy’s end goal, if he were Yonko-level that means his arc is over. You see the fallacy ?

Luffy's goal is to be Pirate King, not defeat Blackbeard.

Zoro's goal is to defeat Mihawk.

 

[LadyVados]

If Kidd had a panel like this with Luffy, his fans would be using this is as proof of him being equal to Luffy based on ‘portrayal’ for a decade.

--- Double Post Merged, Jan 15, 2023, Original Post Date: Jan 15, 2023 ---

The poll on top is SO out of date now

Zoro doesn’t just have CoC he’s like the 5th best user of it alive !

 

[Fox666]

If Kidd had a panel like this with Luffy, they would be using this is as proof of him being equal to Luffy based on ‘portrayal’ for a decade.

Wat? Zoro wanting booze?

 

[john ellis]

While in the same tier I have Law comfortably above Zoro mainly due to hax

You are vastly underestimating Admirals. Even as a Luffy fan I am not fully confident Luffy can solo one outright, though it's likely he could.

If Zoro gets another blade like Enma that can allow him to skip days, weeks, or even months of training I can see it happening but outside of that? I find it ridiculous. Again only if he doesn't have help.

I think Sanji and Zoro can beat Kizaru. Even Jinbei and Zoro.

I think that's all I'm going to say on the matter though. Not much else I can say to advance the discussion really.

As to your last point, Luffy's growth rate is insanely illogical and that's what makes him so powerful/dangerous. Zoro does not have that same growth level.

tbh G5 Luffy is kaido+ i do not see kaido beating a g5 luffy even if there both on 100%. But at the same time Zoro is the only yc1~ we've seen with ACoC, this likely gives him an edge vsing other high tiers. Like how he cut kaido for example.

 

[Pirate Queen]

tbh G5 Luffy is kaido+ i do not see kaido beating a g5 luffy even if there both on 100%. But at the same time Zoro is the only yc1~ we've seen with ACoC, this likely gives him an edge vsing other high tiers. Like how he cut kaido for example.

But the cut didn't do anything to Kaido, where as Luffys basic ACoC punch were wrecking him

Also you could argue Marco could just heal from Zoro's attacks and then Katakuri would just use FS to evade until Zoro ran out of haki as Zoro at the time of beating King was limited to a few minutes with ACoC.

Just from what we've seen Zoro is not far and away above any of the other YC1's introduced even with ACoC.

But Kaido said it best. Haki above all and Zoro certainly has better haki feats than AT LEAST Marco and King.

 

[neomaster121]

Th

But the cut didn't do anything to Kaido, where as Luffys basic ACoC punch were wrecking him

Also you could argue Marco could just heal from Zoro's attacks and then Katakuri would just use FS to evade until Zoro ran out of haki as Zoro at the time of beating King was limited to a few minutes with ACoC.

Just from what we've seen Zoro is not far and away above any of the other YC1's introduced even with ACoC.

But Kaido said it best. Haki above all and Zoro certainly has better haki feats than AT LEAST Marco and King.

The only YC with ACoC is Zoro!

ACoC looks like a requirement to get to yonko level

 

[john ellis]

But the cut didn't do anything to Kaido, where as Luffys basic ACoC punch were wrecking him

Also you could argue Marco could just heal from Zoro's attacks and then Katakuri would just use FS to evade until Zoro ran out of haki as Zoro at the time of beating King was limited to a few minutes with ACoC.

Just from what we've seen Zoro is not far and away above any of the other YC1's introduced even with ACoC.

But Kaido said it best. Haki above all and Zoro certainly has better haki feats than AT LEAST Marco and King.

zoro cut seemed to do more damage then luffies punch they cut ans scarred kaido and this wasnt even king of hell zoro. That said zoro did ko himself using dance of death was easily superior to king who is yc1 with the highest bounty revealed so far. It's reasoned koh zoro has better control over his ACoC, i don't see kata beating zoro, You hype FS way too much ACoC is easily twice as important as fs, kaido reconigized Luffy had FS haki he simply didn't care about, made a casual about it, Luffies, ACoC though he a yonko was terrified of it

tl'dr if kata is broken because of FS, Zorro is twice as broken due to ACoC

ACoC>>FS
also before you attack my arguement purely off judging bounties=power, which i agree bounties are bad measure of power, i just think they make good tie breakers for people of the same tier, which i think kata vs king is pretty even, which also makes zoro>kata as zoro>king

 

[Pirate Queen]

zoro cut seemed to do more damage then luffies punch they cut ans scarred kaido and this wasnt even king of hell zoro. That said zoro did ko himself using dance of death was easily superior to king who is yc1 with the highest bounty revealed so far. It's reasoned koh zoro has better control over his ACoC, i don't see kata beating zoro, You hype FS way too much ACoC is easily twice as important as fs, kaido reconigized Luffy had FS haki he simply didn't care about, made a casual about it, Luffies, ACoC though he a yonko was terrified of it

tl'dr if kata is broken because of FS, Zorro is twice as broken due to ACoC

ACoC>>FS

Zoro's cut did not do more damage than luffy's punches. We have to get past this who Swords>Fists. It's baseless. Obviously swords are going to SHOW more damage that punch but that doesn't mean anything.


You see to think im saying Kata's FS automatically makes him stronger than Zoro for some reason so i hope you reread what i wrote slowly


Zoro needs to actually land a hit on Katakuri for that ACoC to do anything. I don't overestimate FS, you underestimate it.

If you think Katakuri can't dodge zoro for ten minutes while zoro runs out of haki then you are simply not willing to accept the possibility it could happen and it most certainly can. Zoro's KoH mode drains a HUGE amount of haki. I'm also not saying Katakuri is stronger than Zoro, simply that they are comparable due to FS. Just like Marco is comparable to Zoro because of his regeneration.

ACoC does mean Zoro is AUTOMATICALLY stronger than everyone in the same tier as him i.e. Kidd, Law, Sanji, Jinbei, Marco, Katakuri, Sabo. But he is COMPARABLE.

 

[john ellis]

Zoro's cut did not do more damage than luffy's punches. We have to get past this who Swords>Fists. It's baseless. Obviously swords are going to SHOW more damage that punch but that doesn't mean anything.


You see to think im saying Kata's FS automatically makes him stronger than Zoro for some reason so i hope you reread what i wrote slowly


Zoro needs to actually land a hit on Katakuri for that ACoC to do anything. I don't overestimate FS, you underestimate it.

If you think Katakuri can't dodge zoro for ten minutes while zoro runs out of haki then you are simply not willing to accept the possibility it could happen and it most certainly can. Zoro's KoH mode drains a HUGE amount of haki. I'm also not saying Katakuri is stronger than Zoro, simply that they are comparable due to FS. Just like Marco is comparable to Zoro because of his regeneration.

ACoC does mean Zoro is AUTOMATICALLY stronger than everyone in the same tier as him i.e. Kidd, Law, Sanji, Jinbei, Marco, Katakuri, Sabo. But he is COMPARABLE.

i think garp vs roger shows that swords don't increase your attack power, while it makes sense in our world i don't think it applies in one piece, zoro's swords only did that much damage because his AP was that good. FS doesn't increase one's speed it only makes them better at reacting, while Kata is probably able to react to zoro i don't think he can dodge every hit, also ACoC users have dumb durabillity, zoro's durabillity is insane. He survived the double yonko attack, then defeated a yc1 with some healing. Even i he might of died from said attack blocking and tanking it in any metric is huge. Zoro probably has better haki pool then Kata tbh.

Kata logically has less durabillity then king, so zoro likely 1 shots any YC1 tbh. King being a lunarain likely has the best durabillity of the tier.

for reference i think this is the AP

KOH zoro>base luffy
g4 luffy>KOH zoro
g5 luffy >>> KOH zoro

i think g5 luffy is under hyped.