Fantasy Zoro vs Katakuri

[grey matter]

Zoro (chapter 1035) faces Katakuri

Both fight to their maximum potential. No CIS ( i.e "in character" arguments)

Who wins? What difficulty?

 

[Pirate Queen]

Stamina: Katakuri>Zoro
CoC: Katakuri < Zoro
CoO: Katakuri > Zoro
CoA: Katakuri = Zoro
Fighting Style Katakuri >= Zoro
AP: Katakuri < Zoro

Awakening is the biggest obstcale for Zoro as the stickiness of the mochi would prove a struggle for him. Where as 2-3 full powered CoC hits from Zoro would kill him. Zoro would struggle getting through Katakuri's CoO FS hax. Katakuri has the skills to keep Zoro at a distance but Zoro can't escape the environment turning to mochi


Katakuri has hax and because no CIS, Katakuri doesn't stab himself, doesn't grow to respect Zoro, nor has a reason not to lose... Katakuri wins. But is incapacitated after the fight, as in doesn't has the capability to fight another high tier fight.

Of course non of what I say matter because I'm going to be called "agenda driven" but that's my stance on it.

I'm gunna vote tie simply for the fact that idk in what sense "maximum potential" means. (Are we giving Katakuri ACoC and Zoro ACoO?)

 

[Brandish μ]

I won't be giving Zoro ACoO (or ACoA) nor Kata ACoC (or ACoA).

Current maximum output I'm saying tie because some of Kata's hax I can't think of how Zoro deals with it. Luffy was lucky to win that fight, and Luffy gained CoO to get it done. And that is two fold - the power up, and figuring out how Katakuri was becoming intangible.

On the other hand, Zoro possesses enough destructive power to win. 103 mercies would be enough imo to cut thru some awakened mochi and take out Katakuri, as a finishing blow. In addition, he wouldn't spend some of the fight having Enma act up.

In terms of general power level, I'd put Zoro ahead because I favour attack power mostly.

 

[Pirate Queen]

I won't be giving Zoro ACoO (or ACoA) nor Kata ACoC (or ACoA).

Current maximum output I'm saying tie because some of Kata's hax I can't think of how Zoro deals with it. Luffy was lucky to win that fight, and Luffy gained CoO to get it done. And that is two fold - the power up, and figuring out how Katakuri was becoming intangible.

On the other hand, Zoro possesses enough destructive power to win. 103 mercies would be enough imo to cut thru some awakened mochi and take out Katakuri, as a finishing blow. In addition, he wouldn't spend some of the fight having Enma act up.

In terms of general power level, I'd put Zoro ahead because I favour attack power mostly.

I personally favor adaptability. Battle IQ. And hax when a fight between top tiers is concerned.

But when I was new to shounen I certainly favored AP, but I'm a DBZ weeb

 

[grey matter]

Zoro has better stats in general (pretty much all except CQC due to future sight), but Katakuri's combat style kinda counters Zoro's.
Zoro has no high level AOE attacks except dragon twister. Still Zoro is fast enough to land some hits, but I think Katakuri will make a priority to dodge the charged attacks from Zoro.

Awakening also means that the environment around Zoro attacks him. Even though we're seeing Zoro "fly" recently, he's not proficient enough with this IMO to negate the effect of land he stands on attacking him

Katakuri high diff IMO

Stamina: Katakuri>Zoro
CoC: Katakuri < Zoro
CoO: Katakuri > Zoro
CoA: Katakuri = Zoro
Fighting Style Katakuri >= Zoro
AP: Katakuri < Zoro

Awakening is the biggest obstcale for Zoro as the stickiness of the mochi would prove a struggle for him. Where as 2-3 full powered CoC hits from Zoro would kill him. Zoro would struggle getting through Katakuri's CoO FS hax. Katakuri has the skills to keep Zoro at a distance but Zoro can't escape the environment turning to mochi


Katakuri has hax and because no CIS, Katakuri doesn't stab himself, doesn't grow to respect Zoro, nor has a reason not to lose... Katakuri wins. But is incapacitated after the fight, as in doesn't has the capability to fight another high tier fight.

Of course non of what I say matter because I'm going to be called "agenda driven" but that's my stance on it.

I'm gunna vote tie simply for the fact that idk in what sense "maximum potential" means. (Are we giving Katakuri ACoC and Zoro ACoO?)

Max potential just means they start off by going all out. i.e they don't start by "testing " each, other and start the fight itself trying to get the Win.

Maybe it's redundant, since I mentioned no CIS. So you can ignore it if you want.

As for agenda driven, sometimes you are lol. But I agree mostly with what you've written here, I think it's a fair assessment.
In armament haki, Zoro has better armament IMO

 

[Pirate Queen]

Zoro has better stats in general (pretty much all except CQC due to future sight), but Katakuri's combat style kinda counters Zoro's.
Zoro has no high level AOE attacks except dragon twister. Still Zoro is fast enough to land some hits, but I think Katakuri will make a priority to dodge the charged attacks from Zoro.

Awakening also means that the environment around Zoro attacks him. Even though we're seeing Zoro "fly" recently, he's not proficient enough with this IMO to negate the effect of land he stands on attacking him

Katakuri high diff IMO



Max potential just means they start off by going all out. i.e they don't start by "testing " each, other and start the fight itself trying to get the Win.

Maybe it's redundant, since I mentioned no CIS. So you can ignore it if you want.

As for agenda driven, sometimes you are lol. But I agree mostly with what you've written here, I think it's a fair assessment.
In armament haki, Zoro has better armament IMO

I think we most differ in how AoE counters Future Sight. I don't think AoE matters at all. Where I feel like you think it's the deciding factor in the fight, and if I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

I just don't see how Zoro feasibly gets past Katakuri's CoO especially since you've excluded any plot stupidity that could occur. I.e. thinking Luffy was dead and having a snack break when your entire kingdom is under attack outside the mirror world

 

[grey matter]

I won't be giving Zoro ACoO (or ACoA) nor Kata ACoC (or ACoA).

Current maximum output I'm saying tie because some of Kata's hax I can't think of how Zoro deals with it. Luffy was lucky to win that fight, and Luffy gained CoO to get it done. And that is two fold - the power up, and figuring out how Katakuri was becoming intangible.

On the other hand, Zoro possesses enough destructive power to win. 103 mercies would be enough imo to cut thru some awakened mochi and take out Katakuri, as a finishing blow. In addition, he wouldn't spend some of the fight having Enma act up.

In terms of general power level, I'd put Zoro ahead because I favour attack power mostly.

Pretty sure Zoro has advanced armament. You can't get advanced Conqueror's without advanced armament.

Plus, Zoro's attacks were damaging Kaido even before the Conqueror's awakened. It should be because of advanced armament.
IMO he also used advanced armament against Pica as well, wet saw haki "aura" there. I think Oda didn't focus on it due the same reason he didn't for Sabo, cause he wanted it to be a future plot point and training session for Luffy

About general placement, I agree. I put Zoro at YC1+ because he can preform in general at a higher level.
But in this matchup, Zoro loses IMO

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2021 ---

I think we most differ in how AoE counters Future Sight. I don't think AoE matters at all. Where I feel like you think it's the deciding factor in the fight, and if I'm wrong feel free to correct me.

I just don't see how Zoro feasibly gets past Katakuri's CoO especially since you've excluded any plot stupidity that could occur. I.e. thinking Luffy was dead and having a snack break when your entire kingdom is under attack outside the mirror world

AOE counters because there is a limit to how much you can tweak you body with mochi body. Katakuri uses future sight to predict attacks and tweak his body to dodge them.
Let's hypothetically consider an AOE attack with 100m radius, and the the opponent can use the attack fast . I suppose we can all agree future sight isn't helping Katakuri dodge it? He has to use armament haki to tank it, can't dodge it.


Yeah I agree there. Like I said, Katakuri wins this matchup with high diff IMO

 

[Pirate Queen]

Pretty sure Zoro has advanced armament. You can't get advanced Conqueror's without advanced armament.

Plus, Zoro's attacks were damaging Kaido even before the Conqueror's awakened. It should be because of advanced armament.
IMO he also used advanced armament against Pica as well, wet saw haki "aura" there. I think Oda didn't focus on it due the same reason he didn't for Sabo, cause he wanted it to be a future plot point and training session for Luffy

About general placement, I agree. I put Zoro at YC1+ because he can preform in general at a higher level.
But in this matchup, Zoro loses IMO

--- Double Post Merged, Dec 26, 2021, Original Post Date: Dec 26, 2021 ---

AOE counters because there is a limit to how much you can tweak you body with mochi body. Katakuri uses future sight to predict attacks and tweak his body to dodge them.
Let's hypothetically consider an AOE attack with 100m radius, and the the opponent can use the attack fast . I suppose we can all agree future sight isn't helping Katakuri dodge it? He has to use armament haki to tank it, can't dodge it.


Yeah I agree there. Like I said, Katakuri wins this matchup with high diff IMO

In an attack like Dragon Twister. It isn't a continuous attack however. It is a series of slashes. Not one long slash. It's a series of multiple cuts that ravage the target. It's no different that Katakuro dodging a series of punches from Luffy's Gatling Gun. Just replace Luffy's punches with Zoro's slashes in the twisted.

Katakuri in this instance would have ample time to shape his body in a way that none of those slashes actually hit him.

 

[grey matter]

In an attack like Dragon Twister. It isn't a continuous attack however. It is a series of slashes. Not one long slash. It's a series of multiple cuts that ravage the target. It's no different that Katakuro dodging a series of punches from Luffy's Gatling Gun. Just replace Luffy's punches with Zoro's slashes in the twisted.

Katakuri in this instance would have ample time to shape his body in a way that none of those slashes actually hit him.

Sure. I wasn't talking about Zoro's dragon twister specifically. But generally about how AOE counters Katakuri's fighting style.

Dragon twister is a psuedo AOE attack, similar to say Luffy's KKG or black mamba. Because dragon twister is a series of rapid slashes formed into a twister. KKG or black mamba is a series of rapid punches utilizing spring force
I agree Katakuri can dodge some of them though, but not all. Like how black mamba kept hitting Katakuri even through future sight, dragon twister will do the same as well (arguably better, since the interval between black mamba is larger than between slashes in dragon twister)

But for actual AOE attack -, say fire, ice, magma etc; Katakuri's future sight + mochi body won't be of much help. He has to outright tank them or dodge them.

 

[Sachsenhesse]

Katakuri didnt manage to defeat Luffy in a drawn out battle and is one of the most overhyped fighters because of his amount of screentime.

I cant see him defeat Zoro at all.Its the viper against mountain again, Kata can dance around and dodge most his Zoro attacks, but one missstep and its over.

 

[Brandish μ]

I personally favor adaptability. Battle IQ. And hax when a fight between top tiers is concerned.

But when I was new to shounen I certainly favored AP, but I'm a DBZ weeb

That's fair.

I go for whatever the series usually portrays in its best fighters, or the MC. In One Piece it's mainly attacks and endurance/durability imo, either by devil fruit, haki, and/or weapons, but ofc most stats are pretty high at the top.

Imo battle smarts, hax, speed etc are more of a factor when we're talking about fighters who aren't the complete package - and the further you get from the top the more they are a factor. They can still count in a big way depending on the fighter, Law has some downright ugly levels of hax.

 

[Pirate Queen]

That's fair.

I go for whatever the series usually portrays in its best fighters, or the MC. In One Piece it's mainly attacks and endurance/durability imo, either by devil fruit, haki, and/or weapons, but ofc most stats are pretty high at the top.

Imo battle smarts, hax, speed etc are more of a factor when we're talking about fighters who aren't the complete package - and the further you get from the top the more they are a factor. They can still count in a big way depending on the fighter, Law has some downright ugly levels of hax.

Yeah I think it was smart of Oda to introduce the concept that strong enough haki can stop hax abilities or there is no reason someone like Law or Sugar couldn't soli the verse under the right conditions.

Either way. I chose tie because I wasn't sure what max potential meant but now that it was clarified I'm going with Katakuri.

Right out of the gate with intent to kill?

Katakuri will eventually use Mochi World to drown Zoro. It's stickiness would inhibit his moment. He can't eat the Mochi like Luffy can so he'd drown in it. Any counter would be avoided with FS.

Zoro's 1v1's are about him adapting to a particular fighting style so this would be over fairly quickly if Katakuri went right out the gate with his best moves.

Katakuri can avoid Zoro's 103 Mercies but Zoro can't avoid Mochi world, Block Mochi, or Katakuri's speed.

No fesible way Zoro wins this in my opinion. It would be close, but i don't see a scenario where Katakuri stops mid fight for a snack break allowing Zoro to break his composure... which is really the only reason Luffy performed as well as he did.

 

[XXGenesis]

As much as I want to Believe Zoro’s attack speed, can be faster than Katakuri’s CoO evasion, & that Zoro’s technique’s like

Oni Giri
Three thousand world slash
Ashura
Dragon Twister

Would be almost unavoidable even with Katakuri’s CoO….Katakuri would still nudge out a win. The level of difference in fighting capability Luffy had to overcome, is gonna be tough for Zoro to constantly replicate w/o CoO….Katakuri would dish out More blows that Zoro would land, no matter how deadly Zoro’s attacks are, I don’t believe he can land them for a lethal hit against Katakuri…Buzz cut Mochi is pretty damn deadly itself…

 

[Sachsenhesse]

I believe people give Katakuri way too much credit with his foresight. Even Capone said he cant be beaten and as soon as he looses his calm, he is going downhill.

Now whats going to happen, if he sees into the future and sees zoro devastating attacks and resilence? I can see him toally panic after a while dodging one fatal attack after another.

 

[grey matter]

I believe people give Katakuri way too much credit with his foresight. Even Capone said he cant be beaten and as soon as he looses his calm, he is going downhill.

Now whats going to happen, if he sees into the future and sees zoro devastating attacks and resilence? I can see him toally panic after a while dodging one fatal attack after another.

Katakuri doesn't fear death.
Katakuri panicked against Luffy for a while, because his pride/persona took a hit

Zoro has great CQC, so I can picture him landing some attacks on Katakuri even through his future sight.
But, Katakuri will make sure to dodge the really threatening attacks from Zoro IMO. Because, even though the top tier attacks from Zoro itself are really fast, the need some prep time. Katauri has enough time to predict where the attack would land, and dodge

I think dragon twister can land some hits on Katakuri however, since attacks which are too fast and short interval, has been shown to give Katakuri some trouble.

Katakuri wins this fight, high diff

 

[Darklord#10]

I see no reason y Zoro should not win this, except katakuri got stronger