I'm sorry, I didn't actually mean like, more and more things on the Org, I just meant hopefully we will start getting to the point where we see development on tracing them and where they are, etc. Don't get me wrong, I love this series to death, but I think they should really start trying to incorporate the Org a little bit more than they started to if you know what I mean.
About the anglicized names in anime: was that the Eng Dub? It's the same name with the English publised manga version Case Closed which yeah I think Japanese names are far better... Conan's anime's good imo but it has to be Eng sub (the movies are totally awesome too esp movie 4, 6, 7, 10 & 12).
About the length of the series: considering the manga has come to 60+ volumes now, but I don't think we know the purpose of the Black Org. yet, and Conan, the FBI & the CIA just altogether had Rena as a spy so...
But Aoyama's revelation style has been like a bomb, I just hope his next bomb will be as exciting and interesting as all the previous ones regardless of time.
Yes i really hope we get into another BO arc. The other arcs aren't bad but i need something new. Hopefully this one will be longer than the last. Of course, i wouldn't mind a kid arc right now. I miss him already.
I was talking about the english dubs. If i watch anime, i never watch the dubs because usually the voice acting isn't as good. I was reading about it on wikipedia one day when i had just started reading the series and i couldn't figure out who those people were.
I do agree, the english dubs are horrible. I have watched up to episode 514 in subs, and so far it just got to the point where the spy's brother(Sorry, I forget the names) just found out that Conan was Kudo. I haven't really read the manga but I intead to at least find the chapter where 514 left off and continue from there hopefully.
And yes, I hope another BO arc comes soon, and longer than the other. I just got to find out where all the BO chapters are so I can read them in the manga so I can get the full detail considering anime doesn't always follow the manga.
@ Sportgal1
If you're talking about the lady in the bottom frame, that is Vermount. She found out when she thought(I am pretty sure this is when) Sherry was actually Sherry, but it instead turned out to be Conan having a plan to capture her, etc that backfired.
@ Yabe
I also got to agree though, the movies are pretty darn awesome. I haven't watched 11 or 12 though, I have 11 to watch but I don't think I have found 12 subbed yet.
i haven't actually watched the movies yet. I tend to prefer it when it's canon and the mangaka never usually has a say in the movies. It's the same with book authors too. That's why most books turn out to have horrible movies.
What i actually meant when i was asking about Vermouth's scene is how she found out that Conan was Shinichi. I knew about Sherry, but even if she had figured out that Conan had also been shrunken, there's no reason to suspect he's Shinichi. She doesn't even know that he exists. I wonder what her motives are though, as she doesn't seem to do things the typical BO way.
I'm really glad that Eisuke (spy's brother) is gone though. He was just a really annoying character. There are already so many minor characters in this manga, that it would be better to further develop someone like Ran, Hattori or KID. Even a flashback sequence would have been better, telling more about kudo's past. Rena Mizunashi is interesting, but we didn't need Eisuke being her brother. I thought that it actually slowed the development of the story.
I can't wait till the current arc is over. I really couldn't care how the superintendent got his scar. Hopefully it'll randomly lead into a BO arc.
Vermouth = Christ Vineyard and was found out later by Jodie & Conan that she had also disguised herself as her mother Sharon Vineyard (who's an old actress friend of Yukiko - Shinichi's mother. This was where Jodie revealed Vermouth's identity in the manga).
So she's been a friend of Conan's mom for a long time that she should have been told of or seen Shinichi as a kid once, besides she also disguised herself as a murderer who Akai was after, but Ran & Shinichi happened to encounter with and even saved her life in the 'Golden Apple' flashback chapters - so Vermouth actually has known both the adult and the young Shinichi before.
@Jath:
DCTP has subbed and released movie 12 here. I have the tanks so I also could help you gather all those files related to the Black Org. in the manga - but I want 1 day to check and list the number of chapters though if you'd like my help
@Sportgal1:
C'mon, movies are really good you won't be disappointed. The storylines in the movies so far have been unrelated to the main plot in the manga - they're like those filler files, but the cases are much more great and exciting. I really recommend movie 10 'The Private Eyes' Requiem' for you (since you mentioned you missed Kaito Kidd). Watch it
Btw, I also don't like Eisuke's character... I know his role served as a string for Conan & the FBI in finding the truth about Rena, but he had been kind of a tiresome string. Besides him, I love all the minor characters that have been introduced in the series so far though.
---
EDIT:
Here's the list of chapters (from the start) which are related to the Black Organization
(I put the descriptive titles in too so that you could compare them with the anime episodes' titles - I believe they're pretty much the same names):
Gin & Vodka enter
Chapter 1: The Heisei Holmes Miyano Akemi's (Sherry's older sister) story
Chapter 13: The Missing Man
Chapter 14: The Pitiful Girl
Chapter 15: Chase The Giant
Chapter 16: The Girl Like a Devil Tracing Gin & Vodka (1)
Chapter 33: Running into the Two
Chapter 34: The Four in the Green Car
Chapter 35: The Last 10 Seconds of Terror Tequila's story
Chapter 114: An Unexpected Meeting
Chapter 115: The Bomb's Destination
Chapter 116: Conan's Mistake Sherry enters
Chapter 176: The New Student
Chapter 177: The Lady in Black
Chapter 178: Code Name Sherry
Chapter 179: The Girl Made of Lies
Chapter 180: Checkmate
Chapter 181: Why The case of Dr. Araide
Chapter 234: Another Half Year
Chapter 235: In The Dark
Chapter 236: The Unbelievable Link
Chapter 237: From the Bottom of the Heart Pisco & Vermouth enter | tracing Gin & Vodka (2)
Chapter 238: The Secret Corner of Betrayal
Chapter 239: The Black Burial Ranks
Chapter 240: The Sudden Parting
Chapter 241: The Bullet from the Past
Chapter 242: A White World Jodie enters
Chapter 270: Start Game
Chapter 271: TTX
Chapter 272: Game Over The Bus Jack case
Chapter 287: The Invisible Fear
Chapter 288: Danger Signal
Chapter 289: Conceal Beneath the Truth James Black enters
Chapter 325: Something the Lion Dropped
Chapter 326: P and A
Chapter 327: A Stupid Plan Tracing Jodie
Chapter 340: Time to Pick the Apple
Chapter 341: The Hint That Was Against
Chapter 342: The Strange Neighbour
Chapter 343: Who Are You NY flashback story
Chapter 350: Golden Apple 1
Chapter 351: Golden Apple 2
Chapter 352: Golden Apple 3
Chapter 353: Golden Apple 4
Chapter 354: Golden Apple 5
Chapter 355: The Ghost House's Mystery Trivial story about the ran-away member Numabuchi Kiichiro
Chapter 360: The Disapperance of Mitsuhiko Part 3 Tracing Gin & Vodka (3)
Chapter 377: The Footsteps of Darkness 1
Chapter 378: The Footsteps of Darkness 2
Chapter 379: The Footsteps of Darkness 3
Chapter 380: White Snow Black Snow
Chapter 381: Precarious Encounter
Chapter 382: Fellow Passengers
Chapter 383: New Weapon Gadgets Korn & Chianti enter | The revelation of Jodie & Vermouth
Chapter 417: Darkness is a Death Trap!
Chapter 418: The Silent Murder
Chapter 419: Mystery of the Black Light
Chapter 420: The Approaching Surrounding Net
Chapter 421: There is Risk
Chapter 422: The Target That Can't Escape
Chapter 423: The Mystery Left by a Visitor
Chapter 424: The Mystery Left in a Closed Room
Chapter 425: The Hidden Truth
Chapter 426: Good-bye
Chapter 427: Ran's Deduction
Chapter 428: The Unbelievable Conclusion
Chapter 429: The Full Moon and the Trap at the Banquet
Chapter 430: The Haunted Ship Painted with Blood
Chapter 431: The Invisible Man Appears!
Chapter 432: Shinichi Kudo to the Rescue
Chapter 433: The Truth Behind the Mask
Chapter 434: Rotten Apple
Chapter 435: Trace in the Rain The return of Dr. Araide
Chapter 459: Truth Behind the Remaining Desk Tracing the Boss' email address
Chapter 469: Star Knows Everything
Chapter 470: Prelude
Chapter 474: Fantasia
Chapter 475: Seal Rena/Kir enters | Conan & FBI vs the BO (1)
Chapter 499: Ding Dong Dash
Chapter 500: A New Woman-In-Black
Chapter 501: Follow the Target!
Chapter 502: The New Directive
Chapter 503: Black Organization vs FBI
Chapter 504: Black Organization vs FBI 2 Eisuke enters & stories about his relationship with Rena
Chapter 508: The Two Who Cannot Return
Chapter 550: The Only Eyes-witness
Chapter 551: Nail and Snake
Chapter 552: The Identity of the Hammer
Chapter 553: Mysterious Job
Chapter 554: Menu for Dinner
Chapter 555: A Dreaming Star
Chapter 556: The Detective Boys' Snowman
Chapter 582: A Clue From the West
Chapter 583: Location of the Photograph
Chapter 584: Company
Chapter 585: Wrong Number
Chapter 586: The Truth Which Blood Tells
Chapter 587: Deseased Mother Momento Incident at the Hospital | Conan & FBI vs the BO (2) | The dead of Akai
Chapter 595: Crow's Song
Chapter 596: The Second Thread
Chapter 597: The Fake Patient
Chapter 598: Pursuit and...
Chapter 599: Akai's Past
Chapter 600: All or Nothing
Chapter 601: Camourflage
Chapter 602: The Last Resort
Chapter 603: The Mission
Chapter 604: Older Sister and Younger Brother
Chapter 605: The Unexpected Suspect
Chapter 606: Friday the 13th
Chapter 607: Camel's Past
Chapter 608: Spell of Magic
Chapter 609: Wedge of Steel Eisuke's leaving | mentioning of Bourbon | Subaru enters
Chapter 621: Eisuke's Confession
Chapter 622: Red, White and Yellow
Chapter 623: Kuroshiro-kun
Chapter 624: New Neighbour Subaru's stories
Chapter 637: Crackle
Chapter 638: Paper Plane
Chapter 639: Message
Chapter 640: Rescue
Chapter 664: Ikkaku Rock
Chapter 665: Mackerel, Carp, Sea Bream, Flounder
Chapter 666: Thirst of Blood
Yeah thank you for the movie. The one place I usually get mine, national-anime.com, they don't have it yet the last time I checked. Granted it's been a bit. And if you don't mind could you? If I can be of assistance I can try my best to help you out too, I just want to check it all out because I know I haven't seen everything.
@Sportgal1
Yeah the movies aren't bad at all. I do like movie 10 too, it's pretty awesome.
And yeah, I really don't like Eisuke either. He wasn't really one of my fans...
I don't know, maybe i'll give one of them a try. we'll see.
New question: anyone think that the relationship between Gin and Sherry is weird? He really seems to have it in for her. He may just hate traitors, but it seems he has a deeper past with Sherry.
My first thought was that they probably had lover-like relationship with one another as Gin mentioned Sherry with a shot of her bare back - though after having watched him shot her for times it hit me as nothing positive might've gone between them in the Organization. Sherry's mentioned as a brain of the org. + she's got good-natured character in general which's the thing members of the Black Org. doesn't need. Moreover, Akemi was also Akai's lover when he disguished himself as Rye in the org., plus James said that Akai was able to get deep into the organization more through Sherry, so I think those are probably what've caused Gin to pay great interest on her so he could recall the exact colors of her hair and read her move, etc.
Speak of Sherry, there was this scene I'm not sure whether or not Aoyama's already revealed the following words of her mother though.
And Sherry seemed to personally be the target of Vermouth also. When Vermouth went with her plan to capture Sherry, Gin didn't know about it and from the Boss' email stating like "he prolly gave too much freedom to her" - I doubt that her following Sherry that time was the Boss' order. From Jodie's revelation about her, Vermouth should be around 40+ now but she's got such young appearance - what do you think that's caused from?
The Black Org. seemed to need a lot of money doing some experiments with such pill that made the cells of some people altered that they're turned into the kids. Do you think perhaps there actually would be some sad reason involved the purpose of the big boss of the org., and maybe Vermouth also did put herself under some past experiment of the organization?
Vermouth = Christ Vineyard and was found out later by Jodie & Conan that she had also disguised herself as her mother Sharon Vineyard (who's an old actress friend of Yukiko - Shinichi's mother. This was where Jodie revealed Vermouth's identity in the manga).
So she's been a friend of Conan's mom for a long time that she should have been told of or seen Shinichi as a kid once, besides she also disguised herself as a murderer who Akai was after, but Ran & Shinichi happened to encounter with and even saved her life in the 'Golden Apple' flashback chapters - so Vermouth actually has known both the adult and the young Shinichi before.
I really doubt that the BO has some good ultimate reason. In a shonen, if people kill for a good reason they always look sorta sad. This manga is over 600 chapters, you think that there would've been at least some foreshadowing if something like that was to happen. I just have this natural dislike for Vermouth, so hope she doesn't end up being a hero. Hang, draw and quarter etc...
I think part of the reason that Gin hates her is because of akemi and akai, but there was probably some sort of personal relationship. I thought at first they might be siblings/cousins, but now i doubt. Then the naked back pic would be awfully strange. Sherry doesn't seem to have that many scruples. When they are tracing gin and vodka/vermouth enters, she doesn't to help until it is explicitly her fault someone might die. I wouldn't have put it passed her to have manipulated Gin. She's definitely smart enough. Jath said she's the brains of the organization, but that's subjective. Just because she's the smartest doesn't mean she's the brains. Doesn't the boss run the organization and plan everything? He's a bit scary.
It's funny, but i almost forgot Vodka's name. He's seems to have no part besides stupidity and comic relief. :P
Btw, thanks for the putting together the BO arcs list. That must have taken forever.
I wouldn't have put it passed her to have manipulated Gin. She's definitely smart enough. Jath said she's the brains of the organization, but that's subjective. Just because she's the smartest doesn't mean she's the brains. Doesn't the boss run the organization and plan everything? He's a bit scary.
Btw, thanks for the putting together the BO arcs list. That must have taken forever.
Well I don't think that was me saying that she is the brains of the organization, but yeah, she definitely is smart as hell. Though I don't think Gin would have been manipulated, he is smart as hell to. He has kind of like a 6th sense.
The boss in general is crazy, though I don't think he's pulling all of the strings. It seems like he gave a good amount of power to Gin, at least from what I've seen so far. He's been calling a good amount of the shots until a message from the boss shows up etc.
And yes, thanks for the BO arc list. I didn't even notice it before since it was an edit in the other message, but thanks a ton. Definitely helpful.
I really doubt that the BO has some good ultimate reason. In a shonen, if people kill for a good reason they always look sorta sad. This manga is over 600 chapters, you think that there would've been at least some foreshadowing if something like that was to happen. I just have this natural dislike for Vermouth, so hope she doesn't end up being a hero. Hang, draw and quarter etc...
Having enough of tragedy to kill someone shouldn't be considered as 'good reason' in itself no matter what
But there're indeed a lot of hints Aoyama has left about Vermouth that could lead to the suspecion that she has some sad backgrounds >_> This conversation is one example. Not to mention that she's kept thinking of Conan as the 'Silver Bullet' that shall destroy the Organization completely in one day, and let alone having thought like that Vermouth hasn't the intention to stop or even reveal Conan's secret to Gin or the other BO members. Unless there's another way of interpreting those contradictory characters of Vermouth, I wouldn't look across the possibility that she's not originally born devil.
Furthermore, I also wouldn't ignore how most of the cases of this serie has been solved with the revelation of the culprits' sorrowful motivation. Those revelations imo have added more depth, more sense, and more impression to the story, they've sent good messages regarding of the cruelty in life that could happen to someone so that it leads them to all the wrong doings and even killing people out of emotions, even a minor-minor character like the gymnastic girl who's the culprit of the small case was explained about her real teary motivation by Aoyama, so I think it's sensible enough to guess that the more interesting and more of major character as Vermouth, etc. would be done in the similar way. Like someone else ever said "the more evil and cold-hearted a person becomes, the more reflection of their past living is presented."
I think part of the reason that Gin hates her is because of akemi and akai, but there was probably some sort of personal relationship. I thought at first they might be siblings/cousins, but now i doubt. Then the naked back pic would be awfully strange. Sherry doesn't seem to have that many scruples. When they are tracing gin and vodka/vermouth enters, she doesn't to help until it is explicitly her fault someone might die. I wouldn't have put it passed her to have manipulated Gin. She's definitely smart enough. Jath said she's the brains of the organization, but that's subjective. Just because she's the smartest doesn't mean she's the brains. Doesn't the boss run the organization and plan everything? He's a bit scary.
I thought that Sherry didn't want to get involved at first at the time was just because she knew of Gin's absolute way in dealing with traitors, but well... your theory's also plausible at least I can't find any other objection but the very coldness of Gin towards her.
However, when Sherry was mentioned as 'the brains of the organization' I interpreted it as she's one of the efficacious scientists who are working in the labs for the BO, and not the one person who plans things for the org. as a whole - nor indicating her worldly smartness. From what we've seen there're a lot of influential people working/relating to the Black Org., so it's safe to assume that there're seperated groups of them e.g. the killers, the ones who gather infomation, the scientists (the most important group according to the advancement of their project or equals to the brains), etc. and I also wouldn't call Sherry as the smartest member in the BO though considering how she almost got caught by Gin and Vermouth if it wasn't the rescue from Conan/Ran.
I guess i just take the brains of the organization to mean the mastermind. Sorry for the misunderstanding, but that was the first thing that i thoughy of.
Even though Ooyama Gosho shows that the culprits have feelings, I still don't want the BO to. It makes them more interesting when their heartless. I could go with just learning about some basics motives of gin and vodka. Their past doesn't really interest me, the mysteriousness makes them more dangerous.
Yes, i think the boss is really smart, but i don't think that he's crazy per say. Anyone who runs around having people murdered is crazy. That includes all of the BO. I just don't think that he's crazier than the rest of them. I wonder how he keeps Gin and the likes in line. The seem to have a healthy respect for him. I just hope he's not some fat old man, but someone who'll actually take part in the story.
We'll probably start seeing the boss more when Gin and the others start to mess up a bit and slip - not like that will ever happen. lol Though I would like to see how the boss plays myself - like more interaction - cause I would like to see how he keeps Gin in line myself.
Hm. The Moriarty who could keep a smart and heartless person like Gin under his control; and if he hasn't been there watching his underlings when they're in action and could've planned every right things out by just reading their email reports then I expect him to be much more fearsome, smart, calm and heartless than everyone else. He could be James Black
You really like the James Black theory, don't you Yabe? If we're going with slightly out there theories, we might as well say Akai or Agasa () is the boss.
*edit*
Though Akai or Agasa being the boss would be really wierd. James Black is at least reasonable.
it was really good, we're finally back to a case that might have some relevance! I never thought that i'd see jodie acting like this, we're finally going to get some answers (hopefully).
The last arc with kaitou kid was pretty good, but a bit anti-climactic. conan just watched when he flew away. kid saved him from having his head blown off, so conan just let him go. they didn't talk much, but that was one cool vault. guess the mangakas' not run out of ideas yet!
this is from wikipedia "serialized in Weekly Shōnen Sunday since 1994" so i guess it weekly.. but it is not the type of manga you should read every week...
) is the boss.
