Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2011] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Koshi_Inaba]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2010] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

I have always said that WSJ doesn't care about tankoubon sales at all. Mago is starting to become a new psyren if it doesn't watch out. Starting awful in wsj yet surviving in the competition. Then suddenly it is doing decent/good to finally end up in the bottom.

Mago should be careful because it will be cancellated if it doesn't get higher positions (wheter the volumes sale or not)

And where did you know this? From what I know they do care, because that's where the money come from. BTW, mind looking at the list I just posted? Mago is only 200k volume below Reborn. IIRC, there was also a chapter in Bakuman that said sales is important once it reach a certain number. Don't get bitter just because Pysren got canceled because it's low sales and rating

 

[dumbyugi]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2010] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

I have always said that WSJ doesn't care about tankoubon sales at all. Mago is starting to become a new psyren. Starting awful in wsj yet surviving in the competition. Then suddenly it is doing decent/good to finally end up in the bottom.

Mago should be caerful because it will be cancellated if it doesn't get higher positions (wheter the volumes sale or not)

Psyren had bad sales as well as bad rankings which is why it got canned. Mago has good sales and an anime to help increase popularity, it's in no danger of being cancelled. To-Love ru is a good example of a series which survived on sales alone and only ended because Yamabuki was having personal issues.

 

[Koen]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2010] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

And where did you know this? From what I know they do care, because that's where the money come from. BTW, mind looking at the list I just posted? Mago is only 200k volume below Reborn

Come on. The top 8 of WSJ are series that are still doing very good in WSJ. Do you really believe they will say: "mago is in the bottom but it has an anime and it sells good, so let's leave it"? No, they will give it more time but eventually if it is doing a TLR which sold pretty good too, which had an anime too then they will simply end the series in the magazine.

Most people don't want to see that because it is about their beloved series. But I have seen it many times before since I read a lot of cancelled series (from the very short zan to the longer psyren and mx0) I don't say it is instantly in danger but it should watch out that it won't be on that spot for 8 weeks or so because it won't be protected as long as the anime is ongoing or the volumes are selling good

---

To-Love ru is a good example of a series which survived on sales alone and only ended because Yamabuki was having personal issues.

No it isn't... TLR couldn't get out of the bottom either at some moment. It was ToC wise a good series too. TLR was ended because it was on a certain moment constantly in the basement

 

[dumbyugi]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2010] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

No it isn't... TLR couldn't get out of the bottom either at some moment. It was ToC wise a good series too. TLR was ended because it was on a certain moment constantly in the basement

The fact that TLR has started up again in Jump.sq pretty much, in my mind, confirms that it wasn't canned because of bad rankings. It even got a new anime that's currently airing.

 

[Koen]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2010] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

The fact that TLR has started up again in Jump.sq pretty much, in my mind, confirms that it wasn't canned because of bad rankings. It even got a new anime that's currently airing.

Go back in the previous ToC threads and you'll see it was ended because it had bad rankings. Jump.Sq might be from the same publisher, it works independent. You never know that someone in the editorial department managed to get TLR back.

 

[dumbyugi]

Re: Weekly Shonen Jump [2010] - Discussion and TOC Talk - Part 2

Go back in the previous ToC threads and you'll see it was ended because it had bad rankings. Jump.Sq might be from the same publisher, it works independent. You never know that someone in the editorial department managed to get TLR back.

I agree that this is a possibility. It just seems unlikley to me that a top selling manga would get cancelled from bad rankings when volume sales is where the company earns money. They earn no profit from the magazine. Business wise it would be completley illogical and no company in their right mind would do it.

 

[Koshi_Inaba]

No matter how passionate some fans looking at the ranking of their series, sometimes they have to remember that for JUMP, it goes down to business, it goes down to Yens. No matter how big the ranking is, if the good old money doesn't come, they don't give a shit. JUMP is owned by Shueisha, a publishing company, not a "I'm passionate about any manga even if it's sales is low" company

 

[Koen]

Spoiler

issue 43

Asklepios (CP+Cover)
One Piece
Naruto
Bleach
Toriko
Gintama
Chagecha (CP)
Reborn
D.Gray-man
Inumaru
Eyeshield 21
Kochi Kame
Bakuman
Neuro
Mago (CP)
Sket Dance
ToLoveRu
Psyren
Bari Haken
Jagua

#issue 44 an unfixed CP spot

#45

Bleach (Page Couleur)
Naruto
One Piece
Hxh (Couverture et Page Couleur)
Gintama
Toriko
Reborn
Asklepios
Chagecha
Inumaru
Eyeshield 21
Kochi Kame
Mago
Baku-man
To Love
Sket Dance
Neuro
Psyren
Bari Haken
Jaguar

issue #46

Naruto (CP and Cover)
Gintama
Toriko
Reborn
HxH
Bleach
Bakuman
Asklepios
One Piece
Inumaru
Eyeshield
Chagecha
D.Gray-man
Kochi Kame
Neuro
Mago
ToLoveRu
Sket Dance
Psyren
Bari Haken
Jaguar

#47

Reborn (Couverture et Page couleur)
Naruto
Bleach
Toriko
Gintama
Inumaru
D.Gray-man
Chagecha
Eyeshield 21
Jaguar (Page Couleur)
Neuro
Kochi Kame
Asklepios
Hxh
Sket Dance
Baku-man
Mago
Monsters
Tolove
Psyren
Bari Haken

issue #48 sixth just above bottom 5 in between unrated CP sket and unrated HxH

issue #49

One Piece (Cover + CP)
Bleach
Naruto
Gintama
Reborn!
Toriko
Eyeshield 21
Mago
Kochikame (CP)
Bakuman
D. Gray-man
Inumarudashi
Neuro
Binbougami (One shot, CP)
HunterxHunter
Sket Dance
Asklepios
Psyren
ToLOVEru
Chagecha
Gouwan Cyborg Tsutomu (One shot)
PTF! Jaguar

issue #50 CP (unrated TLR)

issue #51

Eyeshiled 21 (Color Page)
One Piece
Toriko
Reborn
Sasurai Kenshi Monogatari (One Shot)
Bleach
Gintama (Front)
Mago
Inumarudashi
Baku-man
Kochi Kame
Hunter x Hunter
Neuro
Sket Dance
Asklepios
Psyren
Ashihara Daisuke / Kashikoi Inu Lilienthal (One Shot)
To Love
Bari Haken
Jaguar
Absent : Naruto, D.Gray-man


issue #52
Bleach (Cover & CP)
One Piece
Bakuman
Naruto
Reborn
Toriko
Gintama
Neuro
Inumaru 1
ES21
Kochikame
Sket Dance
Psyren
Nurarihyon (CP)
Inumaru 2
HxH
Kusorobo (OS)
To Love Ru
Asklepious
Haken (End)
Jaguar

issue #1

オイスター（表紙＋巻頭）
Meister (Cover and center color)

わんぴ
One piece

むるぽ
Naruto

トリコ
Toriko

鰤
Bleach (?)

りぼん
Reborn

金玉　
Gintama

こち亀
Kochi kame

縛マン
Bakuman

いぬまる
Inumaru

愛汁
Eyeshield 21 (Thanks Kirimi!)

ぬるり
Nurihon

サイレン
Psyren

助っ人（C＋人気投票）
Sket Dance (Color and popularity poll)

ハンタ
HXH

とらぶる
To Love

アヌス
Askeptols

ジャガー
Jaguar

Issue 2

Kuroko no Basuke ( Cover & CP )
Naruto
One Piece
Bleach ( CP )
Bakuman
Toriko
Meister ( CP )
Gintama
Eyeshield 21
Nurarihyon no Mago
Sket Dance
Hunter x Hunter
Inumaru
Reborn
Kochikame
To-Love-Ru ( CP ) (unrated)
Neuro
Psyren
Asklepious

#03 (15/12) :
Nishi Yoshiyuki (Auteur Muhyo to Rose) / Bokke-san (New Série, Couv & Pc)
Naruto
Toriko
Bleach
Baku-man
Gintama
Inudaru
Meister
Reborn
Sket Dance
Kuroko (Page Couleur)
Kochi
Psyren
Eyeshield 21 (Page Couleur)
Neuro
Mago
To Love
Askelpios
Jaguar

And so on and so on and so on

I hope that I proved my statement when I say that good selling series with an anime can get canned. WSJ will take the ToC as a measure for cancellation or not

Even the better selling TLR had to make place for the newer lesser selling psyren

 

[dumbyugi]

No matter how passionate some fans looking at the ranking of their series, sometimes they have to remember that for JUMP, it goes down to business, it goes down to Yens. No matter how big the ranking is, if the good old money doesn't come, they don't give a shit. JUMP is owned by Shueisha, a publishing company, not a "I'm passionate about any manga even if it's sales is low" company

This is my point exactly.

And so on and so on and so on

when good selling series with an anime are that low then they will get canned

But as I said, volume sales and merchandising is where the money is at. An anime usally helps sell more volumes of the manga which means more money for Shueisha.

 

[Koen]

This is my point exactly.



But as I said, volume sales and merchandising is where the money is at. An anime usally helps sell more volumes of the manga which means more money for Shueisha.

I wasn't discussing about that. I totally agree with that.

I just want to disillusion people who say that volume sales and anime always topple the ToC rating because that won't stop jump from cancelling that series if it is doing very worse in ToCs. They might give it more time than other series but as you can see: CP promoting of TLR together with good volumes sells and anime couldn't stop TLR from being canned in WSJ because of constant bottom 5 positions

 

[dumbyugi]

Yes but I say it won't stop jump from cancelling that series if it is doing very worse in ToCs. They might give it more time than other series but as you can see: CP promoting of TLR together with good volumes sells and anime couldn't stop TLR from being canned in WSJ because of constant bottom 5 positions

The point I'm trying to make is that, by normal business standards, a company would not cancel something that is making them money. I don't think HxH was out of the bottom 5 once when it came back this year (though I could be mistaken) but it wasn't cancelled, until recently Medaka Box was in or just above the bottom 5 but has managed to survive. The reason these series weren't cancelled is beacuse they sell. HxH is one of Jumps top sellers and Medaka Box sells double what Psyren does and is still steadily increasing. Sket Dance had been in trouble of getting cancelled not just because of ToC position but because it wasn't selling enough, but it got an increase in popularity and is now doing well enough that it got an anime.

But we clearly will not see eye to eye on this matter and it is impossible to prove either way.

 

[Rejuvenation]

You have to put things in perspective in regards to this. To Love Ru was chilling in the bottom for what? 6 months to a year before it got removed and the issues Yabuki had with his wife at that time are well documented.

It makes no sense that between the choices of something like OD, Hokenshitsu or even Medaka Box if it comes down to it, they won't choose one of them to end instead of Mago. Especially when new series keep coming in besides those ones and show no potential in the mag or in sales.

Psyren was a poor seller and in the end had consistently poor rankings on top of that which is a recipe for disaster. Medaka put up numbers in volume one that Psyren couldn't even do in 10. Mago surpassed its highest mark by volume 3 as well. Same with Kuroko by volume 3 despite its shaky start. Mx0's last volume sales are barely half of what Mago did on the same volume count the year it was released. That came after the series(Mx0) was already gone. Medaka had hit that mark as well with a third of Mx0's final volume count.

Series that make them money won't be so easily cast aside especially if they are having another year like 2010. Hunter x Hunter despite the infrequent schedule and To Love Ru not ending before Yabuki's personal problems came to light support this.

 

[Koen]

Look all I am telling you is that if Mago will not get out of that position then it will be cancelled. Money or not. WSJ is a machine that kills awful series but that kills great series too. For a cancellation the main criterion will be the position in the ToC because by polls, readers decide which series are in and out. They tell the editorial staff which series make them buy the magazine. I am not saying that Mago will be cancelled in upcoming issues. Two series have been cancelled and after this series of one shots, it might be some new ones will be inserted to fill up psyren's and swot's spot. So Mago has a lot of time.

The prior question will be however: are these series new cushions for lower rated series. Mago has a reader fanbase but its fanbase is definitely giving a signal that it is disappointed. It's up to the editors and the mangaka to do something about that. Because if it won't get out of that bottom and it won't be protected by cushions then it will be canned whether the volumes sell sucked or not, whether it had an anime or not... It's all about opportunities for the machine (aka wsj).

So mago will have a long life if it gets out of that bottom or if it doesn't get out of that bottom but it is protected by awful cushions

Psyren eventually survived for a long time because it was polled decently in the magazine. It got a lot CP's and the volume sells weren't good. Why was psyren cancelled/ended? Because the volumes sold bad? No, since it could have been ended from its start then. It was cancelled because the WSJ readers killed it in the most recent polls

About HxH: HxH is constantly on a hiatus. I would take HxH's role in discussion with a grain of salt. It is really doubtful that it survives on reader's polls since the issues it makes a series of appearances can be counted on two hands. I think HxH is an exception because it can return back thanks to the editorial department. For HxH I do agree that volumes might be more decisive in this case because its appearances (8 weeks only?) are too short to know how readers vote for it in their polls. Furthermore HxH volumes appearances aren't endless either. Since the manga doesn't appear in WSJ, volumes can't be imprinted either. Its material for volume publishing has a source too; that being magazine appearances. HxH for now doesn't belong in the collection of continously ongoing volume selling manga.

 

[StrangerAtaru]

It's really tough to compare To-Love and Psyren with their different situations. Psyren ended because it just didn't have the sales or the ranks to make it after a certain point. It still got three years and, thus, it's story told (akin to a Muhyo), but it still ended regardless because of sales and polling. To-Love had the extra problem of Yabuki's marital problems. It did poll bad and we have heard stories before that more older-skewing series don't get the ranks as the ones that are general audiences, but Yabuki's situation was not helping anything. Thus it ended, but still had the support to lead to the sequel series and anothre anime.

 

[Koen]

It's really tough to compare To-Love and Psyren with their different situations. Psyren ended because it just didn't have the sales or the ranks to make it after a certain point. It still got three years and, thus, it's story told (akin to a Muhyo), but it still ended regardless because of sales and polling. To-Love had the extra problem of Yabuki's marital problems. It did poll bad and we have heard stories before that more older-skewing series don't get the ranks as the ones that are general audiences, but Yabuki's situation was not helping anything. Thus it ended, but still had the support to lead to the sequel series and anothre anime.

I want to make sales and ranks of it. Since it survived on ranks

Okay, but Jumbor who was instantly skilled got a new chance too to appear in another jump magazine. It is definitely a proof that those editorial departments work independent from each other. Eventually, TLR didn't get its sequel series in WSJ. TLR got a new chance in a different magazine with a different editorial staff. Same goes for the totally different jumbo.

Btw, where does that Yabuki story come from? It's the first time I heard of it

 

[Galactic Tomahawk]

How did Muhyo and Rouji and/or Neuro sell? I'm not too familiar with volume sales but I think either of them would make a much better barometer than To Love would.

No matter how many times the same argument gets repeated over and over again, it doesn't change the fact that there were outside influences at the time of To Love's cancellation and it got picked back up again once the issue was resolved.

 

[Rejuvenation]

How did Muhyo and Rouji and Neuro sell? I'm not too familiar with volume sales but I think either of them would make a much better barometer than To Love would.

No matter how many times you repeat the exact same argument over and over again, it doesn't change the fact that there were outside influences at the time of To Love's cancellation and it got picked back up again as soon as the issue was resolved.

Spoiler: Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro

16, 44,065 44,065 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol. 16=1st Week
18, 28,707 72,772 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol. 16=2nd Week

9, 40,982 40,982 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol. 17=1st Week
17, 32,601 73,493 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol. 17=2nd Week

9, *45,414 *45,414 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.18=1st Week
17, *29,537 *74,941 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.18=2nd Week

11, *,*51,960 *,*51,960 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.19=Week 1
25, *23,278 *,*75,238 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.19=Week 2

15, *55,315 *55,315 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.20=Week 1

15, *46,834 **46,834 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.21=Week 1
15, *32,980 **79,814 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.21=Week2

19, *48,772 *,*48,772 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.22=Week 1
30, *28,939 *77,711 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.22=Week 2

10, *85,874 *85,874 Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro vol.23 Final=Week 1

I only have Muhyo's final volume count

28, 30,121 30,121 Muhyo to Rosie vol. 17
25, 23,341 53,462 Muhyo to Rosie vol. 17

 

[Negative Syndicate]

I heard that To Love-Ru was ranked in bottom 5 because he submitted the work late. If it actually did voted, it would have ended much earlier, like Shaman King did.

If the author submitted their work late, the editor puts the series in lower place as penalty. I remember some years ago, One Piece was ranked in middle because Oda submitted the work late.

 

[Mr. Prince]

I'd say let's postpone this discussion. At this point we can't really tell how things'll evolve. JUMP will probably come to Mago's aid if they feel like the series really is in decline. It's a nice cash cow for them, 2010's Oricon Charts proved that.
On the other hand, if Mago supporters are so sure the series is invincible due to its sales and anime and what not, then why even bother about its performance in the first place? If you're so sure, lean back and don't worry...

But hypothetically spoken:
Of course, Mago is the strongest series in this week's bottom 5 by a huge margin. But let's say it can't improve its position but some of the other series will. (Just take Medaka as an example which had a fine streak the last few months.)
I just can't see JUMP just randomly picking a series as scapegoat if that were the case... the current line up from JUMP is really strong in regards of sales and stuff like that. (Hell, about half of the series have Anime support and we've seen how JUMP had dominated the Best of 2010 Oricon lists.)

 

[Negative Syndicate]

If this discussion on comparison of To Love-Ru and Psyren associated with Nurarihyon's ranking, then I think we should wait little bit more about possible cancellation of Nurarihyon. Nurarihyon only ranked low for one issue at this point, if it ranked near last for consecutive weeks, then we should proceed on dicussing about this issue.