Discussion Ancient Weapons Predictions and Theories

[Zehahaha]

Re: Acient Weapons

Shiki said that Roger had infos about the weapons, he never had one.

 

[Sakazuki]

Re: Acient Weapons

Shiki said that Roger had infos about the weapons, he never had one.

Well, read this:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c565.5/4.html

Shiki knows that Gol D. Roger knows where it is. If we consider that almost no one knows what the weapons are and where find them, well, it's very like Roger had one because he knows where it is and what it is. The one who have Pluton's blueprites have it, the one who has influence on Shikahoshi has Neptune. Does it make sense to you know?

 

[Zehahaha]

Re: Acient Weapons

Well, read this:

http://www.mangafox.com/manga/one_piece/v58/c565.5/4.html

Shiki knows that Gol D. Roger knows where it is. If we consider that almost no one knows what the weapons are and where find them, well, it's very like to have the weapons. The one who have Pluton's blueprites have it, the one who has influence on Shikahoshi has Neptune. Does it make sense to you know?

As I said, knowing the locations and infos about the weapons doesn't mean that you HAVE them as you mentioned in your post by saying " he had one of the weapons ".

 

[Sakazuki]

Re: Acient Weapons

As I said, knowing the locations and infos about the weapons doesn't mean that you HAVE them as you mentioned in your post by saying " he had one of the weapons ".

I edited my post, maybe it's more clear now. But I didn't get your point. Could you clarify it to me, please?

 

[Zehahaha]

Re: Acient Weapons

I edited my post, maybe it's more clear now. But I didn't get your point. Could you clarify it to me, please?

Roger knew about the 3 weaps no doubt about it, but did he use one of them, or " had one of them " under his thumb ? Impossible, that would be unlike Roger, and also the WG would have got his hands on it if Roger was using it.

 

[Sakazuki]

Re: Acient Weapons

Roger knew about the 3 weaps no doubt about it, but did he use one of them, or " had one of them " under his thumb ? Impossible, that would be unlike Roger, and also the WG would have got his hands on it if Roger was using it.

In the mangafox translation, Shiki says one weapon. Roger could know all the three of them because he knew about the Blank Century, but he surely he couldn’t have access to Neptune and I doubt about that he had the blueprints of Pluton, so I say that Uranus is the weapon that Roger had.

How can we say that it’s unlike of Roger? We don’t know this much about him yet, and what would be the problem of him have one Ancient Weapon? For me, the weapon is in Raftel to hide it from the WW and evil ones.

 

[Zehahaha]

Re: Acient Weapons

In the mangafox translation, Shiki says one weapon. Roger could know all the three of them because he knew about the Blank Century, but he surely he couldn’t have access to Neptune and I doubt about that he had the blueprints of Pluton, so I say that Uranus is the weapon that Roger had.

How can we say that it’s unlike of Roger? We don’t know this much about him yet, and what would be the problem of him have one Ancient Weapon? For me, the weapon is in Raftel to hide it from the WW and evil ones.

" You know the location of the weapon that destroys the world "
" You know the location of the "world-destroying weapon " By cnet

Does it say " You have the weapon and use it ? "
Nope.

And this is a supposition, but I doubt Shiki knew about the three weapons in detail.

And yes it is unlike Roger, you think the guy who became PK, and who is a copy of Luffy would resort to using a weapon known for being able to destroy the world ? He ain't a BB or a Shiki to do that. And what would be the point ?
He became PK thanks to his true strenght and nakama, not some weapon.

Also Neptune is the name of the father of Shirahoshi, the name of the weap is Poseidon.

 

[Sakazuki]

Re: Acient Weapons

In one thread, you say that you’re guided by logic. I have argued that logic isn’t the best guide in Literature because there is sometimes an unexpected revelation, loose parts, etc. We don’t have to agree about this.
But at the same time that you’re guided by logic, you say that presume some parts by what you have understood (your logic) and demands this as canonical. You said to me one time that to consider as true what the manga showed, the sbs and others declarations of Oda. But guess what? Your opinion isn’t the same as Oda, and isn’t canonical either. You demand proves from the others, but yourself don’t show any of it? You’re just one hypocrite that has to disagree with every opinion.
As I said, almost no one knows what an Ancient Weapon is, where find it. If you know these two things is almost sure (at least as I interpret this) that you have it. I’m not saying that Roger became PK because he had it; I’m just saying that the weapon is Uranus and that it’s in Raftel, or at least, information about it will be in that island.

 

[Zehahaha]

Re: Acient Weapons

Unexpected events : Ace being Roger son, Shirahoshi turning out to be a an ancient weap.
These are the types of event that Oda make unexpected.

And yes, I consider the manga being the ultimate source, and SBS too. And anyone who read the manga thoroughly can see that there's a logic behind Oda's story and he makes it consistent and not " fuzzy " unlike some mangas. One simple example : BB.

There was this theory running around that BB ate the Cerberus devil fruit, and because of the three scars he left to Shanks, and BB pirate's flag, people began to believe that he ate that. I was never convinced by such an half assed theory because it is not logical and extremely too far fetched, one reason for that : Marco never mentioned BB having that kind of DF, if he had it, WB's crew would have knew about it, instead said that BB's body is " special ". Oda then at FI, showed BB having a weapon and that what caused the scars in Shank's eyes. It is more logical and makes more sense than that Cerberus DF fruit.

Dealing about this Roger and weapon, my source about all my " assumptions " : Manga. Manga has provided enough infos about Roger's personality thanks to Rayleigh/Shanks/WB, and also thanks to Luffy who is shown being really close to Roger's personality. Then I ask you here : A man, who is known for wanting Freedom more than anything else, having adventures, believing in fate, would he want to take a weapon that destroys the world ? Why would he ? He doesn't want to conquer anything, only people who wants to do that or need power to realize whatever " bad " objective he have. Roger's ultimate goal was Freedom, to be free more than anyone else in the world. He never wanted to conquer anything, therefore why would he need that kind of weapon ? Give me one single reason for why.

Making assumptions out of a single line in that chapter, heck I wouldn't call that assumptions, it seems more like a " fact " established by you in your post, is reading too much in the manga.

And what Roger left in Raftel is really clear : The real history. It is heavily implied by Robin (in the Skypiea arc, and by Rayleigh himself (in the Shabaody arc), Oda never mentioned through Robin back then that there's some weapons, instead he put an emphasis on the real history. If you think that " One Piece " is merely infos about some weapons, then you and I don't read the same manga for sure.

And I'm sorry, I'm not hyprocite, and I'll always disagree with far fetched theories built upon nearly nothing, and I'll always disagree with misreading of mangas too. Expect me to see me always respond to such theories

 

[Sakazuki]

Re: Acient Weapons

And yes, I consider the manga being the ultimate source, and SBS too. And anyone who read the manga thoroughly can see that there's a logic behind Oda's story and he makes it consistent and not " fuzzy " unlike some mangas. One simple example : BB.

(…) Dealing about this Roger and weapon, my source about all my " assumptions " : Manga. Manga has provided enough infos about Roger's personality thanks to Rayleigh/Shanks/WB, and also thanks to Luffy who is shown being really close to Roger's personality. Then I ask you here : A man, who is known for wanting Freedom more than anything else, having adventures, believing in fate, would he want to take a weapon that destroys the world ? Why would he ? He doesn't want to conquer anything, only people who wants to do that or need power to realize whatever " bad " objective he have. Roger's ultimate goal was Freedom, to be free more than anyone else in the world. He never wanted to conquer anything, therefore why would he need that kind of weapon? Give me one single reason for why.

(…) And what Roger left in Raftel is really clear : The real history. It is heavily implied by Robin (in the Skypiea arc, and by Rayleigh himself (in the Shabaody arc).

Can you pick any example where I can confirm that Roger believed in fate? And again, you didn’t get my point: I’m saying that know what an Ancient Weapon is and where it is is the closest to have the Ancient Weapon. I’m not saying “Gol D. Roger had an ancient weapon in his pocket”. I’m saying that he knew what it is and where it is, what is for me the closest to have owned one Ancient Weapon by far in One Piece story.

When I started that thread, the most important topics were: a) That weapon is Uranus and b) that weapon is Raftel.

Another point: what is the problem if there is any Ancient Weapon in the last island? The Ancient Weapons are directly related to the Void Century, as we know information about them by the poneglyphs , so I repeat myself: what would be the problem? There is no hole in the plot; it’s just you who dislike the idea. I don’t know if it’ll happen, but I know that it doesn’t have any inconsistencies

I still believe that you are a hyprocite, because you say that the manga is the ultimate source at the same time that you can make assumptions by you logic and not what is canon. You’re not different from the others members and not above them, as you always do when you comment any matter. As, Ngunqua have said in the Big Mom thread:

I'm not discrediting your prediction. What I'm discrediting, again and again, is your certainty in your prediction. We don't have to wait on Oda to tell every little detail. That's why we are free to make any predictions as possibilities of what may happen based on what we currently have (you made yours, and I respect that), but to claim it to be the only way how things will turn out is amusingly illogical.

 

[Zehahaha]

In the chapter 0, Shiki said that Gol D. Roger had one of the ancient weapons

Had one isn't " having infos " about it. If that doesn't mean he have one in his pocket then what ?

Can you pick any example where I can confirm that Roger believed in fate?

We have enough evidence in the manga, testimonies made by characters that literally saw Roger in Luffy. Shanks, Rayleigh, WB... If you still refuse to admit that Luffy is nearly a copy of Roger, then what can I do for you ?

Again, I'll explain from zero : Manga is the source right ? We can assume (for me, on matters like these, it is 100% because it is heavily implied by Oda), if I say for example Roger believe in fate. And I give examples of Shanks, Rayleigh, WB, even Gan Fall. In matters like these, yes we can clearly say that Roger believe in fate, that he thinks the same way Luffy did.

Things we wait for Oda to confirm : Location of a weapon, name of a weapon, island, the character's ability... Did you same say it is 100% that BM will have this and that power ? No, there's no real clues nor anything to deduce that.

Then I'll say it again, Oda said that Roger knew about the real history, and knew about the 3 weapons. Good. Did he ever implied one being in Raftel ? Not even once. He put an emphasis on the real history (or the Rio Poneglyph) being in Raftel through two testimonies : Robin's one back in Skypiea where she deduced that you need to gather to Tablets of truths to know the true history, and that the tablet of clues are the one who shows the location of those tablet of truths along with the weapons, and obviously Roger recovered those tablets of truths, and it is 100% certain that is in Raftel. He did not put a single emphasis on any weapon being there.

What you is saying is that there is a weapon in Raftel, okay. You back up your entine theory by just a single line said in that chapter, disregarding other things such : Roger's personality, what was said by Robin & Rayleigh. That single line, who is by the way quite clear, says " Roger you know the location of the weapon " period. Not " Roger you HAVE the weapon ".

Your theories that you make are based on lines, misreading (aka the second Poneglyph in each island), not logical at all (in the case of BM strenght). Making theories is nice, but making theories while taking into account : Consistency in the story, past events, thinking nearly like Oda does, is even better.

 

[Uriel]

Moderator Notice:
I like reading your arguments. But I feel like I should warn here and mark that there is a borderline of respect to each other you're crossing. I understand having differences but please let's not use ad hominem speeches.

Thanks.~ Uriel

 

[Sakazuki]

The one which believes in fate is Blackbeard. Luffy believes in dreams, so if Luffy acts like Roger, well, then I believe that Roger believed in dreams too.

I tried to explain my point, but I see that you don’t make any efforts to understand it. You just disqualify everybody, so I won’t discuss with you anymore because there is no point to debate with someone who isn’t open to listening.

I’ll reinter my point and say that Gol D. Roger knew about one of the Ancient Weapons by the time of the Edd War and where it was, and I believe that weapon is Uranus. I believe too that he left this weapon or information about this weapon in Raftel.

I say this based on the information that he couldn’t have access to Poseidon because Shirahoshi wasn’t even born by the time of the Edd War and I don’t believe that access to the blueprints of Pluton. I predict that the weapon/information about that weapon was left in Raftel, where we will discover about the Void Century, one of the mysteries in the One Piece that is directly related to the Ancient Weapons.

 

[Zehahaha]

The one which believes in fate is Blackbeard. Luffy believes in dreams, so if Luffy acts like Roger, well, then I believe that Roger believed in dreams too.

Here, have fun

I’ll reinter my point and say that Gol D. Roger knew about one of the Ancient Weapons by the time of the Edd War and where it was, and I believe that weapon is Uranus. I believe too that he left this weapon or information about this weapon in Raftel.

I was never really arguing about this, but let me tell you what was my problem with your original post.

In the chapter 0, Shiki said that Gol D. Roger had one of the ancient weapons

Had one, isn't HAVING INFOS or KNOWING LOCATIONS. Strangely enough, you say that I disregard everything you say. Maybe if you clarify what you say first, we wouldn't have gotten here in the first place.

 

[kkck]

As far as the weapons, I really do believe the last ancient weapon is a devil fruit. Pluto is a warship of sorts, something technologically advanced which could bring about a decent bit of destruction. Poseidon is a mermaid, a normal person with the incredible ability which by extension gave her control of the oceans. Uranus was a sky or thunder god. The last weapon being a fruit would imply that each weapon is something in itself and unrelated to each other, that kinda makes sense to me.

Another thing I find strange about the whole thing is that pluto and uranus are based on roman names and poseidon is based on a greek name. More interestingly, her family is the neptune family which would make more sense alongside pluto and uranus. In this particular regard I wonder if the ability to control sea kings is in itself genetic and the actual ancient weapon is not in itself shirahoshi but whoever carries the neptune's blood as any of their descendants could potentially awaken the capacity to talk to sea kings.

 

[AluminumTough]

This is something I wrote a while back I wanted to do more work with it but I've been caught up with school so it won't be for about another 2 months until I can put some time in on it. You can read the entirety here: http://dontlearnthis.blogspot.com/

Pluton:

Spoiler

we know is: is a warship capable of mass destruction which was constructed in Water 7 long ago. It was said to be capable of destroying entire islands.

In mythology: 'The Wealthy One,' as is the Greek Plouton. This is because everything is born of the earth and returns to it again." Not a connection but maybe in the future? (IDK). The best thing I could find was The Orphic Hymn to Pluto addresses the god as "strong-spirited" and the "All-Receiver" who commands death and is the master of mortals. It was also said that Pluto was a “hidden” god. “Come forth Plouton.” As we know Pluton, in OP, is hidden. One really interesting fact is that Pluto had a helmet (kyneê) which gave him the ability to be invisible. Later on translations called it: "helmet of Orcus" referring to those who conceal their true nature by a cunning device. Francis Bacon said, "the helmet of Pluto, which maketh the politic man go invisible, is secrecy in the counsel, and celerity in the execution." I also think that just maybe Franky made Plouton...by memorizing the blue prints. As we know Franky's teacher built a ship for the Pirate king Roger, at this time Franky's teacher still had the blue prints for Plouton. Since Roger was the only one to get to raftel I would assume that you have to have Plouton to get to Raftel? Pry not since Roger was going to tell White Beard how to get there.

Poseidon:

Spoiler

Weakoshi who has the capability of calling forth extremely large sea kings to do her bidding. These sea kings are capable of sinking Islands. Poseidon in mythology was known as: “Earth Shacker.” Before the Trojan War Poseidon sent a sea monster to attack Troy. The monster was later killed by Heracles. Heracles Luffy? Maybe something like Weakoshi calls forth the power of the Sea kings to destroy something so Luffy destroys fishman Island. In Greek art, Poseidon rides a chariot that was pulled by a hippocampus or by horses that could ride on the sea. He was associated with dolphins and three-prongedfish spears (tridents). He lived in a palace on the ocean floor, made of coral and gems. This is interesting as Weakoshi is going to be carried by Sea Kings on Noah. Noah being reference to Bibilical parable, where Noah carried two of every animal aboard a ship. Prediction: Which would relate to Joy Boy promising to take fishmen to the surface but failed.

Uranus:

Spoiler

we no nothing about Uranus yet. Uranus or Father Sky was the son and husband of Gaia, Mother Earth. I’ll talk about the divisions of races but I’m assuming that the three weapons are going to be split between fishmen, moon people (Sky people), and land dwellers. Ouranos is the "rainmaker" or the "fertilizer". Another possible etymology is "the one standing high in order" My basic theory is that Uranus will be a weapon of the sky people that controls the weather. Which could be the “knowledge” that was given to Nami to control weather and such. (I know it sounds crazy). Also Uranus could be a type of people due to the Uranus in mythology fathering: Cyclopes, Hekatonkheires, Titans, Erinyes, Giants, and Meliae. OR rather Uranus and Gaia fathered/mothered every god and creature but I wanted to name those...specifically Giants. They also father/mothered all Gods. I also think that it is probable that Luffy is this ancient weapon as was Roger and this is why we haven't heard anything about it yet. Possible that the ancient weapon was the lineage of "D" that passed down for the one to rule over all. However, it takes the right person at the right time for this lineage to be the weapon...which can also be tied to Joy Boy's promise.

To summarize my claim: there is a direct link it seems between mythology and the ancient weapons. I also like to keep in mind that Oda thought this story was going to be over a long time ago, so many of the ideas can be found hidden throughout the story.

 

[UnknownMugiwara]

I don't know if anyone had said this before, but the Weapons doesn't have to be actually weapons, like Poseidon being a person. This leads me to this theory.

- Uranus isn't a weapon like Pluton or an ability like Poseidon. Uranus is the story of truth which is placed on the different Poneglyphs around the globe. It was meant for Poseidon to use her ability and Noah to carry the message around during the Void Century. (or something like that!)​

We also know that Pluton is a weapon that can destroy islands.
This means, that the WG must have had Pluton during the Void Century in order to destroy the Ancient Kingdom and become the WG they are today.

 

[Uriel]

That's not a bad theory, actually. Maybe Uranos (The name) is somewhat a guidance on how Poneglyphs must be read.

 

[GomuGomuNoBigBoner]

cant help but believe that dragons (presumable) sky/weather related DF might be so overpowered and empirically badass that its what people referred to as an ancient weapon. least fits with the sky motif =D

 

[Shadoguardian]

Personal Prediction on Ancient Weapons:
* The Straw Hats will discover and gather all the Ancient Weapons in one place.
* Two of the Ancient Weapons are stolen, one by the Blackbeard Pirates, and one by the World Government.
* Luffy will challenge them both with his Ancint weapon, which erupts into a giant war in which the fate of the One Piece universe hangs.