Mag Talk Weekly Shonen Jump [2012] - Discussion and TOC Talk

[Doraku]

Ok, I have a question to ask: Do you guys think the return of the romance/harem manga in Jump has to do with Jump's older readership, or is it a recognition of the magazine's prominent female readership?
I personally think its a side-effect of Jump's readership being older than it used to be. There is nothing about the romance series currently serialized Jump that target the female readers. But I'm interested in hearing your opinions.

Honestly I cannot see the reason why older readers are tend to seek romance manga in a shounen magazine. So I'll stick to the fact that Jump is trying to attract female readers by serializing romance/harem stories.

By the way, I agree that Shueisha won't go with digital polls at least for now. Unless they invent secret code or something which is only printed on the back of the magazine to gives vote, but this idea sounds really lame already.

-----
So Koisome Momiji Edited Manga already uploaded. The one-shot is just average for a romance manga. I think I'll read the serialization chapters to make sure whether I have to keep reading it or not.

 

[Asgaroth]

The idea behind the postcards is to poll paying customers, not random web surfers. If the polls were open to all, Shueisha would have to account for a larger number of voters who do not read the magazine, raising the margin of error.

Because it's impossible to stamp a different code in every jump magazine that needs to be written down in the online poll. Besides they would get a more accurate poll through more participants. Also imagine the lower cost in counting and collecting these cards. The only reason they don't use it is because they old fashioned and don't want change. Every industry like music, film and so on works that way till someone new and innovative changes the market. the question is how long it will take till they change, not if they will do it.

 

[k-dom]

I think the main point is that whatever the method, they will always be a delay between the chapter release and its rank in the TOC. New series need time to install and 8 chapters correspond roughly to a tankobon volume. They probably have improved their method to collect and count the poll since Jump exist and yet they stay to this delay. I don't think that the time to count the poll is the limiting factor here.

 

[Asgaroth]

So Koisome Momiji Edited Manga already uploaded. The one-shot is just average for a romance manga. I think I'll read the serialization chapters to make sure whether I have to keep reading it or not.

i really loved the one-shot. it wasn't that original but really drawn cute/moe. The ending of the one-shot could be a great prelude for a miniseries.

Spoiler

They could show how hard it is for him to do acting and make many accidents that are typical for romcom. a miniseries would be long enough to add a lot of story but wouldn't drag it out to much.

Kinda sad they will just use the one-shot again and expand the story till it is boring and gets axed.

 

[Kaiten]

Why would you assume that before reading the first chapter of the serialization? What if they made changes you, in all of your wisdom, can not foresee. It is not as if chapter one of every serialization is identical to the one shot. The first chapters of Bleach, Naruto, and D. Gray Man introduced radical changes from the pilot. Nor is it a given that the serialization will slavishly follow the plot arc of the pilot. It may be that the story shatters under the demands of serialization, but why assume that before chapter 1 has even been translated?

---------- Post added at 12:00 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:53 AM ----------

Ok, I have a question to ask: Do you guys think the return of the romance/harem manga in Jump has to do with Jump's older readership, or is it a recognition of the magazine's prominent female readership?

I personally think its a side-effect of Jump's readership being older than it used to be. There is nothing about the romance series currently serialized Jump that target the female readers. But I'm interested in hearing your opinions.

Depends on the series, I think. The more echhi Pajama seems to be marketed more towards Jump's new, older teen audience. Nisekoi seems like it is meant to have broader appeal, taking advantage of Jump's older audience while still appealing to women and stalwarts. I have not read Koisome Momiji yet and can not comment.

 

[Newkerzy]

Yeah, it's not too bad for a rom-com. It's fairly "pure" which gives it a new flavor in the rom-com genre. It kinda reminds me of Azuki & Mashiro's pure love. Although the simplicity of it might become a boomerang.

---------- Post added at 11:04 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:02 PM ----------

lulz. Fight the power! Don't let the man keep a good manga down. Though, I imagine the eight week delay bothers you a hell of a lot more than it bothers Shueisha.

I do not think you understood what Krono was saying. It is essential to Shueisha that a specific number of postcards are returned per issue, the number returned must reflect a specific percentage of total circulation in order to accurately reflect the reading habits of the entire readership. The higher the number of postcards returned, the lower the margin of error when assessing the accuracy of the weekly survey. Shueisha will periodically set a confidence interval, the number of postcards returned must meet that confidence interval in order for the survey to be deemed statistically valid. The earlier the survey period is ended the less likely it is for Jump to meet or exceed the desired confidence interval. Results could never be completed instantly, that would not allow enough time for the desired number of surveys to be returned. Nor would it allow for the number of postcards returned to exceed the desired amount, something which Shueisha must hope for every week. Digital surveys would speed up the counting process, but would not speed up the collection process.

More importantly, the surveys can not go digital until Jump goes digital, something Shueisha has been resisting tooth and nail. The idea behind the postcards is to poll paying customers, not random web surfers. If the polls were open to all, Shueisha would have to account for a larger number of voters who do not read the magazine, raising the margin of error.

Err... you kinda lost me midway through the post but I understand with your last part. Thanks.

 

[Kaiten]

Err... you kinda lost me midway through the post but I understand with your last part. Thanks.

In short Shueisha mathematically determines a level of certainty that the sample size (postcards returned) from each issue accurately reflects the reading habits of the total population (all Jump readers). The more postcards returned, the more confident Shueisha can be that fan polls are accurate. Shueisha predetermines how accurate they desire the polls to be, using that they determine how many postcards need to be returned before fan polls meet the desired criteria. Because Shueisha uses fan polls to assess reading habits, and uses that information to cancel manga, they probably want very accurate fan polls. Therefore they must allow a reasonable amount of time for enough postcards to be returned. If Shueisha stopped accepting polls to early, they would risk losing useful data. It would not matter if polls moved online, they would still need to keep them opened for a few weeks in order to collect enough data.

 

[Estranho]

They probably have improved their method to collect and count the poll since Jump exist and yet they stay to this delay.

Or we just think they stay with this delay.
I think that we need to be careful with this "8 week rule". We heard of this many years ago, from an unknown source and that's all.
We don't have any evidence that this rule is real. Well, I know it makes sense sometimes, explain a lot of things, works in various cases, but there's no proof that it works that way. So, it's not a science.

If what that misterious guy told years ago is true, even then we can't know for sure that this "rule" still works with the told 8 weeks. Maybe they acelerate the process, maybe the process never was like this. Unless a comproved insider say so, it's only a guess.

 

[Sayaendo]

Or we just think they stay with this delay.
I think that we need to be careful with this "8 week rule". We heard of this many years ago, from an unknown source and that's all.
We don't have any evidence that this rule is real. Well, I know it makes sense sometimes, explain a lot of things, works in various cases, but there's no proof that it works that way. So, it's not a science.

If what that misterious guy told years ago is true, even then we can't know for sure that this "rule" still works with the told 8 weeks. Maybe they acelerate the process, maybe the process never was like this. Unless a comproved insider say so, it's only a guess.

The exact number of 8 is less relevant than the pure fact that the ToC reflects the polls of a specific week. Even if we don't assume the 8 week rule, most of the discussion/speculation in this thread (based on the ToC) stays valid.

 

[Estranho]

The exact number of 8 is less relevant than the pure fact that the ToC reflects the polls of a specific week. Even if we don't assume the 8 week rule, most of the discussion/speculation in this thread (based on the ToC) stays valid.

I totally agree with that.
Just saying that some people take this "8 weeks" like it's certain, while it's not. Like people asking "Which chapter is being ranked now?" and so. We can't know for sure that.
Is it a ranking? Yes. From when? Don't know.

 

[Kaiten]

I totally agree with that.
Just saying that some people take this "8 weeks" like it's certain, while it's not. Like people asking "Which chapter is being ranked now?" and so. We can't know for sure that.
Is it a ranking? Yes. From when? Don't know.

What a horrible conversation that would be. "My friend, do you know if this new series has been ranked?" "No, sorry. We do not have enough information for that to be determined". "Do you know when it might be ranked?" "My apologies, but this information is unknown. I could not even guess. Feel free to discuss it after an indeterminable amount of time."

Common sense dictates the process takes multiple weeks. The amount of time needed to collect a statistically significant number of postcards, count them, and then compile them into a table of content before sending the information to the printer. Years ago we were informed Jump allows themselves eight weeks per issue to complete this process. The people who first posted this information proved reliable enough, so the eight week rule was accepted. In the intervening years nothing has come along to contradict this information. While the original source has been lost, those of us who are not Jump scholars, like Dr. Estranho, are content with accepting the eight week rule without qualification. Should new information emerge, we will be happy to accept our mistake. Until then: the rest of us don't give a fuck.

Or we just think they stay with this delay.
I think that we need to be careful with this "8 week rule". We heard of this many years ago, from an unknown source and that's all.
We don't have any evidence that this rule is real. Well, I know it makes sense sometimes, explain a lot of things, works in various cases, but there's no proof that it works that way. So, it's not a science.

If what that misterious guy told years ago is true, even then we can't know for sure that this "rule" still works with the told 8 weeks. Maybe they acelerate the process, maybe the process never was like this. Unless a comproved insider say so, it's only a guess.

Be careful of what? What are the consequences if we are wrong? If the rule is really four, five, six, or seven weeks will children die, will the company go bankrupt? If the standard unit of time is issues instead of chapters will we have to lay people off the week before Christmas? Eight weeks is a benchmark for discussion. None of us give a fuck if it's accurate to the minute. Get over it.

 

[k-dom]

Estranho point is that this 8 weeks is just what it is, a rule that no one can give source and reference and as such is mostly empirical. It's ok for our general discussion and the TOC trend but when it comes to say that this specific chapter is ranked we simply don't know. And as such, almost nobody here refers to this 8 weeks delay for discussion or comparison purpose, the only notable exception is when a new serie get the 'ranked' status.
When the supposedly ranked chapters were added to the TOC list for some time, it ended in endless discussion about the validity of the rule, if the color pages should be counted, etc... and in the end it was abandoned

 

[Estranho]

Oh, that unnecessary sarcasm to try to prove a point. Well...

What a horrible conversation that would be. "My friend, do you know if this new series has been ranked?" "No, sorry. We do not have enough information for that to be determined". "Do you know when it might be ranked?" "My apologies, but this information is unknown. I could not even guess. Feel free to discuss it after an indeterminable amount of time."

Maybe horrible, but honest. And I'm sure you know people really care about the 8 weeks (as most as they can care about some magazine of a foreign country with some comics). We already saw a thousand times people here in this topic make theories about how the ranking reflect an exactly chapter. Or am I mistaken?

The people who first posted this information proved reliable enough, so the eight week rule was accepted. In the intervening years nothing has come along to contradict this information. While the original source has been lost, those of us who are not Jump scholars, like Dr. Estranho, are content with accepting the eight week rule without qualification. Should new information emerge, we will be happy to accept our mistake. Until then: the rest of us don't give a fuck.

You sound a little like a religious fanatic here, that's funny. "The truth was told a long time ago, I don't have any evidence to support that, but well, I don't care. I believe in it and you are an a** to try to start questioning it".

Be careful of what? What are the consequences if we are wrong? If the rule is really four, five, six, or seven weeks will children die, will the company go bankrupt? If the standard unit of time is issues instead of chapters will we have to lay people off the week before Christmas? Eight weeks is a benchmark for discussion. None of us give a fuck if it's accurate to the minute. Get over it.

If I have to say the relevance of the rules of a ranking in a Japanese manga magazine in a whole forum devoted to that... well, then it's all poitless here!


(Now I'm gonna wait for the next sarcastic post)

 

[SSJWill4]

If I have to say the relevance of the rules of a ranking in a Japanese manga magazine in a whole forum devoted to that... well, then it's all poitless here!


(Now I'm gonna wait for the next sarcastic post)

The forum as a whole does, in fact, act on the 8 week assumption. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but without concrete evidence showing the contrary, those of us that do hold to the 8 week rule will continue to do so. If you really want to discuss and argue it in length then please create another thread. As Kaiten already said to some extent, the rest of us don't really care to debate it anymore.

 

[Kaiten]

You sound a little like a religious fanatic here, that's funny. "The truth was told a long time ago, I don't have any evidence to support that, but well, I don't care. I believe in it and you are an a** to try to start questioning it".

I almost feel to sorry for you to be sarcastic. You just don't get it. I don't even know how to answer, or if it even matters. The short answer to your question is that nobody gives a fuck. Nobody wants to add a qualifier every time the subject comes up. "About" eight weeks, "could be eight weeks but we're not sure", "we don't know how long it takes but the legends say eight weeks". Fuck all that. We're discussing comic books, not microbiology. We all know confirmation was lost, anyone who does not know learns quickly, and we know it may or may not be exact. We get it.

If I have to say the relevance of the rules of a ranking in a Japanese manga magazine in a whole forum devoted to that... well, then it's all poitless here! :

Please come back when you've developed some perspective. This is a frivolous discussion about popular entertainment, not a scientific inquiry. Get a grip.

 

[Asgaroth]

We already saw a thousand times people here in this topic make theories about how the ranking reflect an exactly chapter. Or am I mistaken?

Everything that can measure popularity could change the story of the manga. Look at bakuman how many times Hiramaru was shown in the end, besides his small appereance at the beginning. He got entire chapters devoted to him and covers! That may be the case to prolong the story or just a resonance for his popularity. Same goes for Kumagawa. If showing something works grreat they will use it again and again. The Toc is only one part to measure popularity...

 

[k-dom]

Why are you so emotional for someone who doesn't care ? And who is this we ? Personaly I don't like to be involve in your posts  when they have this 'professor Kaiten' tone
If you, in the end, agree with estranho , what the point in arguing so agressivly ?
Forum are bound to repeat themselves over and over. Why is it veterans who are pissed about that fact ? There will always be people who don't know how the TOC works, people who ask what this 8 weeks are. There is no arm in repeating the truth that we don't know exactly how it work so please bear with it.

 

[Estranho]

The forum as a whole does, in fact, act on the 8 week assumption. You don't have to believe it if you don't want to, but without concrete evidence showing the contrary, those of us that do hold to the 8 week rule will continue to do so. If you really want to discuss and argue it in length then please create another thread. As Kaiten already said to some extent, the rest of us don't really care to debate it anymore.

Just to make it clear, someone told that the 8 week rule was old-fashined. And I said that we don't know if that's correct. Just that. I'm not saying you shouldn't believe in the 8 week rule because it's wrong, I'm saying just that we don't know the truth (and you all really know that, like everybody said after my post) so it's pointless say it's "old-fashioned" or whatever word was used. That's it! That was the point! I never expected to start a discussion about the validity of the rule.

But someone thought that I was "wrong on the internet" and came to say how silly I was to point that out. And I was defending my ground.

Anyone can believe in what wants. Saying that something don't have proof is not saying that it's wrong.

 

[Nii]

Moderator Notice:
A little reminder to please remain friendly. Everyone can feel free to discuss the 8 chapters rule as long as it stays on topic. Discussing someone's behaviour isn't something that should be done here so please refrain from doing so. If someone feels there's a need for it contact the specific member through PM or other private means. Thanks for your understanding : )~ naruto-niichan

 

[Zeromcd]

The super early Medaka Box spoiler provider just came online.

I just asked him for the Jump rankings but he will probably only give me Medaka Box's position. We might get lucky, though

------------------------------------------------------

Yep, he only gave me Medaka Box's position.

878 ：1015 ◆GwoDyEGSIY ：2012/05/29(火) 21:55:34.61 IDnSxD+Mt0
掲載順は後ろの方、こち亀の直後
Medaka Box is in the back half of the magazine, right behind Kochikame.

He usually states when Medaka is in the bottom 5 so I'm guessing Medaka is probably bottom 6th-8th.