First Yonkou to go down?

[winterwyrm]

Re: 1st Yonkou to go down?

I say kaidou because HIS zoans are weak, zoan fruits are moving in unconventional directions, like ancient, legendary, and creatures with unusual attributes, like the axolotyl, from what we've seen of his fearsome "zoan army" it's all bland things like cows and maybe a tiger here or there with no special characteristics other than higher strength (still far less than, say, sanji most likely).

So anyways though with that said I would be very dissappointed if this series were to devolve into "luffy beats one yonkou, luffy defeats a shichibukai, luffy defeats a stronger yonkou, etc..." it's not like one piece for the straw hats to just go from one yonkou to another with the mentality of "that yonkou you just beat? He was nothing! a weakling, now me, I'm so much stronger!" The series was getting kind of bland into that formula with the shichibukai just being beaten then fighting a stronger one, but then oda seemed to realize that it was getting predictable, and mixed it all up, I really hope that he allies with a yonkou at least briefly, hopefully things will get really crazy later on, so that we don't know what's happening, and, say luffy encounters a yonkou's crew and ends up opposing them as part of something that's going on. You know, break that formula later on.

And yes, danzou I think we'll be going back to FI someday in the future, a lot was left unexplored, like marijois, they left it behind without it even playing a role, luffy promised shirahoshi he would return, and also luffy said he would make FI his territory and add jinbei as a crew member, foreshadowing that they will be compelled to return there sometime.

 

[-Ken-]

Re: 1st Yonkou to go down?

So anyways though with that said I would be very dissappointed if this series were to devolve into "luffy beats one yonkou, luffy defeats a shichibukai, luffy defeats a stronger yonkou, etc..." it's not like one piece for the straw hats to just go from one yonkou to another with the mentality of "that yonkou you just beat? He was nothing! a weakling, now me, I'm so much stronger!" The series was getting kind of bland into that formula with the shichibukai just being beaten then fighting a stronger one, but then oda seemed to realize that it was getting predictable, and mixed it all up,

I doubt it's going to be like that. He will probably fight with some Worst Generation Supernova and some renown NW crew in the mix too. It's not like he doesn't fight Foxy when he already beaten Crocodile.

I really hope that he allies with a yonkou at least briefly, hopefully things will get really crazy later on, so that we don't know what's happening, and, say luffy encounters a yonkou's crew and ends up opposing them as part of something that's going on. You know, break that formula later on.

I think he will. Most likely with Shanks.

 

[Kaiten]

Re: 1st Yonkou to go down?

So anyways though with that said I would be very dissappointed if this series were to devolve into "luffy beats one yonkou, luffy defeats a shichibukai, luffy defeats a stronger yonkou, etc..." it's not like one piece for the straw hats to just go from one yonkou to another with the mentality of "that yonkou you just beat? He was nothing! a weakling, now me, I'm so much stronger!" The series was getting kind of bland into that formula with the shichibukai just being beaten then fighting a stronger one, but then oda seemed to realize that it was getting predictable, and mixed it all up, I really hope that he allies with a yonkou at least briefly, hopefully things will get really crazy later on, so that we don't know what's happening, and, say luffy encounters a yonkou's crew and ends up opposing them as part of something that's going on. You know, break that formula later on.

I don't understand what you mean by " The series was getting kind of bland into that formula with the shichibukai just being beaten then fighting a stronger one". Crocodile and Gekko Moriah were the only Shichibukai they have fought. Those fights came six years apart, Crocodile was defeated in volume 23, released in April 2002. Gekko Moriah in volume 50, released in June 2008. The Dressrosa Arc should end with Doflamingo being defeated, but that won't be until at least the fall. That would mean another 5 - 6 years between Shichibukai being defeated. In the meantime they have befriended four current, and one former, shichibukai. Boa Hancock, Jinbe, and Law are outright friends of the Strawhats. Hawkeye trained Zoro during the timeskip. Kuma saved them from Kizaru, and protected the Sunny during the timeskip. That hardly sounds like formulaically moving from one Shichibukai fight to another.

It is doubtful that Luffy will fight and defeat all four Yonkou. Defeating Kaido establishes Luffy as a power in the New World, allowing Oda to dispense with cliche shounen underdog bullshit. Blackbeard seems to have been positioned as his chief rival, so he will have to be defeated at some point, probably towards the end of the series. Shanks is a father figure to Luffy and almost definitely will not be fought. Who knows what will happen with Mom.

And yes, danzou I think we'll be going back to FI someday in the future, a lot was left unexplored, like marijois, they left it behind without it even playing a role, luffy promised shirahoshi he would return, and also luffy said he would make FI his territory and add jinbei as a crew member, foreshadowing that they will be compelled to return there sometime.

Agreed. If nothing else he will come for Noah on "the promised day", presumably to fight the World Government. Since Caribou knows the truth about Shirahoshi, it's a safe bet he will eventually sell that information to someone very dangerous. Luffy will return to save Fishman Island when that happens. I feel like that will be the climax of this saga, but that is only speculation on my part.

 

[winterwyrm]

Re: 1st Yonkou to go down?

I don't understand what you mean by " The series was getting kind of bland into that formula with the shichibukai just being beaten then fighting a stronger one". Crocodile and Gekko Moriah were the only Shichibukai they have fought. Those fights came six years apart, Crocodile was defeated in volume 23, released in April 2002. Gekko Moriah in volume 50, released in June 2008. The Dressrosa Arc should end with Doflamingo being defeated, but that won't be until at least the fall. That would mean another 5 - 6 years between Shichibukai being defeated. In the meantime they have befriended four current, and one former, shichibukai. Boa Hancock, Jinbe, and Law are outright friends of the Strawhats. Hawkeye trained Zoro during the timeskip. Kuma saved them from Kizaru, and protected the Sunny during the timeskip. That hardly sounds like formulaically moving from one Shichibukai fight to another.

Ah, well several good points, I was just referring to how the series seemed likely to just have the straw hats go to fishman island, defeat jimbei, then go from one to the other like that, but when we actually got to shabondy, instead everything became crazy and it's like there is a very typical DBZ style shounen plot where the main character beats one bad guy, then a stronger one, and so on, it's rather predictable, and for a while there it seemed like one piece was going to be that way with the straw hats beating one shichi, then going to another island and doing it again, then eventually beating the yonkou one after the other, and then maybe the marines in a climax, but one piece is much more than that, I was just pointing out that things will probably be much more complicated than the yonkou falling one after the other.

 

[Sproumfch]

Re: 1st Yonkou to go down?

Hi guys !
I like this thread so I'll post my opinion

So, about the Yonkous, we know they are called like this because they rule seas in the New World like Emperors (Yonkou means emperor, am I right?) and they also are the strongest men in this sea, fighting more or less equally each other (for proof : they still arn't down or dead, except for WB).
Also, we know that Luffy's dream is to become the Pirate King.
Again, this is just a name, it's for the men who is obviously the strongest one, and who is a pirate. Also, he must have made the entire tour, which is not possible without some special skills (or the Yonkous would have done this before, it's my point of view).
So, if he wants to be the Pirate King, Luffy has to defeat (or beeing acknoledged as stronger) the Yonkous and all who stands in his way (Marines/other pirates).
Plus, we had this : http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/696/20
Well, so it's obvious, Luffy wants to defeat them.
We can now imagine several issues :
- Luffy die in his first fight with a Yonkou.
- He fights equally with them but can't defeat anyone.
- Kid and his alliance defeat Big Mom, Luffy defeat Kaidou, BB defeat them all.
- Luffy beats everybody exept one or two (the most realistic I believe :P)
- Everyone becomes friends, Akainu becomes Luffy's stepmother, BB marring Nami, the WG helps pirates to recover and no one is beaten.

Also, Oda always add something in the Arc, for the pleasure and history !
I expect Kid to fight Shanks, and so making Luffy angry against them.
I expect Big Mom to beat Jinbei and awakening Luffy's anger.
I expect Luffy telling Kaidou/DD to stop their little trade and experiences, as Luffy would do :P, making Kaidou angry etc...

Oda IS unpredictable, but Luffy beat everyone he could beat before the timeskip. Now that he has been ultimately trained during 2 years, I think he's quite confident about his abilities and well, want to defeat them all. Oda wants us to enjoy, we know it. How could we if Luffy doesn't blow one or two strong ones from the NW??
Some Yonkous (maybe 2) could be defeat by pirates/Marine (they could capture Shanks for instance, opening a new saving arc ) but at least two, Kaidou & BB, will be defeated by Luffy, and I believe he will do that alone.
He's meant to be the Pirate King, don't forget it guys.

Now for the first place, I'd say Kaidou, cause he is the closest, but I think Big Mom's will come after, since she may capture Jinbei (he is going to leave her, she is not going to be pleased...).
Also, Luffy won't go straight. There will be stories, people suffering and Luffy being angry, I'm sure of it.

 

[M3J]

I think Kaidou will be the first Yonkou to go down because virtually every Supernova is gunning for him, directly or indirectly. Strawhat and Law are going after Doflamingo and are planning on destroying his factory, dealing damage to Kaidou because he can't get artificial devil fruit. The other Supernova can take advantage of this and after a while, go after weakened Kaidou, possibly with Law's crew and the Strawhat. Unless Big Mom steps in to help Kaidou, I don't think she'll be going down first or anytime soon.

 

[suraj5898]

Re: 1st Yonkou to go down?

Kaido. I think it'd be kind of lame for Luffy to get in this feud with Big Mom and then later read in a newspaper "Oh, she went down anyway, guess I don't have to worry."

if someone defeat big mom and Straw Hat Pirates read its in newspaper Nami, Usopp & Chopper will say " thank god now we dont need to fight her"

 

[winterwyrm]

Re: 1st Yonkou to go down?

Yes, someone else could replace a yonkou, just because then they would replace her, it wouldn't be as anticlimactic as you may think, if captain kidd were to replace big mom with a crew of conscripted supernovae

 

[Quantized]

I'd like to see a Yonkou go go down by the Kid alliance, but the problem is I don't see it happening, unless, if the Kid alliance takes on Kaido, and Luffy runs into Big Mom, then I see it happening.

Why I have issues with the Kid Alliance defeating any of the other 3 Yonkou are listed below;

Shanks has to at least have his hat back before he is defeated by someone, this is a shounen, and Luffy made a promise, he needs to keep that promise, to return the hat when he meets Shanks again.
Shanks and Kaido are imo the only Yonkou that could fall without Luffy being the reason.
However Shanks has to get his straw hat back somehow, and if he's defeated / dead, then what is the point of all that when the straw hat is one of the most important things in One Piece? Given the hats history, primise and importance to Luffy.

Big Mom likely hates Luffy and wants to rip out his guts. It's a build up that likely will have more development. So why would she go down without Luffy being in the mix?

Teach who will most likely end up in a big fight with Luffy, because of him causing Ace's death.

Kaido who Luffy and Law planning on taking on now, albeit I don't think they will end up fighting Kaido just because they planned so.
Luffy is unpredictable, and even if Kaido wants to kill Luffy, so does Big Mom, and she hasn't exactly found Luffy yet.
So why is it certain that Kaido will find Luffy? Especially considering how unpredictable Luffy is, Luffy might end up fighting Big Mom before Kaido.

Heck... I got the feeling that Luffy will crash right into Big Mom very soon, which I think will lead to either of the two below:

• The Kid alliance will either show up before or after Luffy arriving, either the Kid alliance is defeated or to choose to back Luffy up (Less likely).
• Anothe scenario in my opinion could be Luffy encountering Big Mom while the Kid alliance encounters Kaido (Very likely imo).

I think it's a plausible scenario for the Kid alliance to take down Kaido, because we havent had any build up on Kaido getting mad on Luffy or any other relations.
Despite that Kaido has a reason to hate/dislike Luffy for destroying his supplies, he might never learn about it, no one says he will.

To be quite honest, it seems that the Kid Alliance actually might take on Kaido.
Supposedly Kaido is the weakest Yonkou, given how he cheaply seeks power in fake devil fruits and mass army powers in large quantity, so it makes sense for Law and the Kid alliance to aim for Kaido, but Luffy as he is, is unpredictable, so him and Law might end up differently.
Besides Big Mom is likely searching high and low after Luffy

Either way, just imagine Laws face when he realized that Luffy pissed off Big Moma and she comes out of the blue engaging them, without a plan and completely and utterly unprepared for her? I mean... Just imagine Laws face....

 

[Trikz]

I think its possible for the Kid alliance to defeat big mom but i think Luffy will defeat big mom because he has always had to fight for each of his crew member like for Zoro he had to fight Captain Morgan and save him, for Ussop captain Kuro, for Nami Arlong, for Sanji Don Krieg, for chopper wapol, for robin and franky CP9 and for brook Geko moria. So i think he will have to fight big mom for Jimbei because i doubt big mom will let him go easily and with the bomb in the treasure that was sent to her, she might decide to take out her anger on jimbei. Although it can be argued that luffy already fought the new fishman pirates but i think that fight was more for fishman island and shirahoshi and also due to plot progression than for jimbei as he wasn't really the intended victim nor was he ever in any real danger, he was more like a third party also trying to help.

 

[hoeru]

Seems like it fits the best here:

just thought about it: do you think the yonkou are stable? I mean, Luffy wants to defeat all of them (he stated so himself) - but will he defeat the current yonkou or will he have to fight new ones? Their are guys like Dofla (who was stated to be THE Underground Broker & was given credit even from Aokiji) or Kidd & his alliance who could defeat a yonkou (i guess) - so do you think their will be new yonkous Luffy will have to deal with? Maybe he isn't even fighting kaidou because he is defeated before they can fight (or Big Mam or Shanks). BB is the only one i would bet on staying a yonkou til Luffy fights with him (because of his unique body, his different df abilities, his part in capturing Ace, .......)

Well, the ones who defeat the Yonkou will have to take on the risk that the resulting power vacuum may be a huge advantage for the Marines to gain more and more influence in the New World. Whitebeard's death resulted in Sakazuki placing the Marine Headquarters in the New World. I don't think that the Yonkou would have let the Marines do this, if Whitebeard was still alive...

There is going to be a "carnage" that will result in at least Bigmam an Kaidou to fall. But as there's not only Luffy/Law and Kid/Hawkins/Apoo alliances out there in the New World, Luffy may have to deal with both rivals of his own generation and other super-strong pirates that could take a yonkou's place.

 

[Zehahaha]

A Yonkou already has fallen, the New World already has fallen into chaos, and a new Yonkou had already been named. While possible, I don't see any reason to believe Oda will scrap the idea of the Yonkou after Kaido and Mom are defeated. After all the gibberish about the "Worst Generation" during the Punk Hazard arc, Oda probably is maneuvering to replace the old generation with the new generation. He already has done that with Whitebeard, replacing him with Teach, a member of the Worst Generation. He has set everything up perfectly for Kid and Luffy to join him. Much later on, as the Strawhat's and Blackbeard Pirates get closer to a showdown, it would make sense to eliminate the institution of Yonkou. At that point Luffy and Blackbeard could be presented more or less as equals, or Teach alone at the top, with Luffy as his last remaining, reasonable challenger. At this point it is too early. It would not make sense to eliminate the Yonkou at the very point where the institution just became prominent to the plot. If they are eliminated with the defeat of Kaido and/or Big Mom, the Yonkou will have only mattered long enough to be defeated, the institution will have had no effect on continued plot development in the New World.

I don't agree with this, the situation has stabilized in the NW during the timeskip because Teach managed to control all the territories of WB easily, the whole Yonko system didn't disappear because Teach was there, ready to take the place.

I still do believe that there can't be a " PK " if the Yonko are there, at least, Luffy will never be able to sail freely if the Yonko are there, hence why I believe the whole system will be gone after the defeat of Kaido/BM, because then, not only Teach will move, but Shanks too, the Marines, and many other big shots in the NW. It's not everyday that we get to see such an unbalance happen, that is why you can be sure that there's a lot of pirates and even the WG, waiting for such an opportunity. I'm not saying Kaido/BM will die, but the balance, the influence they have will definitely shatter, possible rebellion too (from their allies), this what I mean by the Yonko system will disappear... I wouldn't be surprised if the Marines will launch a full scale attack on the territories of both BM/Kaido if they will be defeated, and even BB making a move to get these territories under his rule, and I think Shanks is keeping a close eye on BB and will probably react if BB does something outrageous too

Now about the new generation, I agree with you that Oda will replace the old generation with the new one, with eventually making Luffy/BB the top contenders for the PK