Discussion Crews strength - what you expect from now on

[vagabond87]

Ok so you want to learn in hard way..

Then why did you reply to me in the first place ? If you can't be bothered to bring any scans or even arguing, then why are we having this conversation ? You expect to write a post while continuously telling me to "Defend myself" and have me submit to your absolute and all powerful words ?

Read you words one more time as you ask me why I bother to reply and why we have axchange and then look how you contiuned to reply to my post even after I didnt delivered on your "demands".

So you see him fighting against a bunch of weaklings and assume he's on Jinbi's level ? Pacifista were continuously one-shotted in the war. That's no major feat. Hody is weak as shit. Vergo isn't anyone special. And no, I'm not willing to look through 110 pages for something that I'm sure doesn't exist.

Please show me who and when one shotted pacifistas during Whitebeard war beside Hancock who was praised even by Sengoku for her strength. Hody tanked quite a few black CoA hits from Luffy, one of this kind of attacks was enough to almost knock out Cesar, you cant say that Hodi didnt had strength and durability, he lacked technique-training to back up all power and body that he has gotten thanks to ES. Jimbei same as any of monster trio could have dealt with ES mutaded Hodi when he went after Shirahoshi. Btw its not 110 pages but 110 chapters.

Sanji fought Vergo who is most probably strongest enemy that Strawhats have faced after time skip. Even more- Oda made their short fight circumstantial as he made weakened/ injured Sanji fight with Vergo who "isnt anyone special" in your opinion and in mine he is- Joker who is one of pirates that seen most probably all kinds of pirates and he is making deals even with one of Emperors estimated Vergos strength as enough to deal with 440mln berrin pirate-warlord- Law. As Joker underestimated a bit Laws cutting ability still statement about how strong Vergo was- in league with at least some of Warlords- stays. So Sanjis fight with Vergo was shortest fight with strongerst enemy that Strawhats had to date and it was made they way it was for us to wonder how strong strawhats has gotten, especially with Sanji being weakest out of monster trio. If fully fresh, not injured Sanji can imo match Vergo in combat he is nicely comparable to Jimbei.

Hiken is vastly superior, both in destructive power and overall offense-wise. Sending some weakling flying isn't something to brag about when compared to sinking fleets and burning countries.

Well show me country burning after hiken(you wont coz you made this up, it wasnt shown in the manga and you just mix up some people in One Piece speaking of Ace as he and his ability was legendary) I compared Luffys attack to hiken- you compared overall Mera Mera no mi power to one attack that I gave and if you are serious in assuming that Grizzly Magnum would not destroy a fleet of ships in one go then you have to get your imagination to work up harder.

I'm not sure what you're trying to say up there ?
Jinbi isn't really old by OP standards. Ace was 17 when he fought to draw with Jinbi. He died at the age of 20.

My mistake when it comes to Aces age at time of death but its your mistake when it comes to his age when he fought to draw with Jimbei. He spended quite some time on adventure as he was offered a position as Warlord before he fought Jimbei.

I really don't understand how you made this chain and what led you to it. Most people have some sort of arguments they use, but not you. You seem to be simply stating it like that.

Its seems like I am doing just what you say.

 

[KingOfNight]

Ok so you want to learn in hard way..



Read you words one more time as you ask me why I bother to reply and why we have axchange and then look how you contiuned to reply to my post even after I didnt delivered on your "demands".

No, you tell me why did you reply to my post with no proofs, logic or even the intent to argue.

Please show me who and when one shotted pacifistas during Whitebeard war beside Hancock who was praised even by Sengoku for her strength. Hody tanked quite a few black CoA hits from Luffy, one of this kind of attacks was enough to almost knock out Cesar, you cant say that Hodi didnt had strength and durability, he lacked technique-training to back up all power and body that he has gotten thanks to ES. Jimbei same as any of monster trio could have dealt with ES mutaded Hodi when he went after Shirahoshi. Btw its not 110 pages but 110 chapters.

Hancock one shotting two or three is more than enough to support my point. There is also Ivankov who could fight on par with Kuma, who's several times stronger than ordinary Pacifista. And I believe he did take down a couple of Pacifista IIRC. And I don't see what you're trying to say here. Hody is strong ? No. He's a fodder. He was one-shotted by Zoro with ease, and was beaten horribly by Luffy, who commented that Hody's power (even after eating all those steroids) was nothing before Jinbi's.

Sanji fought Vergo who is most probably strongest enemy that Strawhats have faced after time skip. Even more- Oda made their short fight circumstantial as he made weakened/ injured Sanji fight with Vergo who "isnt anyone special" in your opinion and in mine he is- Joker who is one of pirates that seen most probably all kinds of pirates and he is making deals even with one of Emperors estimated Vergos strength as enough to deal with 440mln berrin pirate-warlord- Law. As Joker underestimated a bit Laws cutting ability still statement about how strong Vergo was- in league with at least some of Warlords- stays. So Sanjis fight with Vergo was shortest fight with strongerst enemy that Strawhats had to date and it was made they way it was for us to wonder how strong strawhats has gotten, especially with Sanji being weakest out of monster trio. If fully fresh, not injured Sanji can imo match Vergo in combat he is nicely comparable to Jimbei.

What exactly did you see in that fight to make you believe Sanj is even close to Vergo ? All we saw is Vergo almost making a fodder out of Sanj in a short skirmish. And don't make it seem like Sanji was weakened, he seemed in good shape against Vergo. Now, Vergo who's nowhere near the level of a Warlord (at least seeing that almost all Warlords make fodders out of VAs) is still stronger than Sanji apparently. Yet you rank him on the same level as Jinbi ?

Well show me country burning after hiken(you wont coz you made this up, it wasnt shown in the manga and you just mix up some people in One Piece speaking of Ace as he and his ability was legendary) I compared Luffys attack to hiken- you compared overall Mera Mera no mi power to one attack that I gave and if you are serious in assuming that Grizzly Magnum would not destroy a fleet of ships in one go then you have to get your imagination to work up harder.

So wait, you're going to design your own proof so that it's impossible for me to find ? He was said to have burned countries, and that's that. No, it won't sink a fleet. I don't care about imagination or assumptions like that too much.

My mistake when it comes to Aces age at time of death but its your mistake when it comes to his age when he fought to draw with Jimbei. He spended quite some time on adventure as he was offered a position as Warlord before he fought Jimbei.

We don't know how long he spent. Luffy remained 17 even after everything that happened to him pre-timeskip.

Its seems like I am doing just what you say.

Yes...stating things like that.

 

[Sproumfch]

KingofNight, I feel that's you are the most hatefull one :O
And if he answers you, it's only because IT IS THE BASICS OF COMMUNICATION BETWEEN HUMANS.

And I agree with him : you underestimate Sanji AND Vergo. But it's ok, you'll accept the fact that Sanji is as strong as Jimbey when you'll see it.

And it appears that Luffy is now 20, so the adventure pre-timeskip was on a year. Look at Luffy in the beginning of the manga and then in Marineford : for me more than a years was spent here. But it's only speculation, I may be totally wrong. I think Oda like to make his characters grow up, and for example Coby gained more than 1 year between beginning & Marineford...

Again : Fight between Vergo & Sanji.
Vergo got blown 2 times, Sanji 0 times. Is it painfull to understand??
Sanji's leg got hurt? Well he's not as good with Haki as Vergo, so he got hurt.
But in a real fight where Sanji is pissed off, I don't give a chance to Vergo, even with his Mega Haki.
We already saw that Defensive Haki could be shattered by pure strenght (Luffy vs Hankock's sisters). Sanjii and his ultra strong fire haki kicks, well I'm sure he would beat Vergo. Even Smokey with his new Haki (we suppose he's learning it since 2 years) can hurt Vergo.
That is not complicated.

Then if Luffy is pissed of because of Jimbey, the former won't be able to hit Luffy if he has his Second Gear speed. Jimbey was stronger two years ago, but now it's not the same.
The very proof is simple : Luffy invited Jimbey to follow him, to be his Nakama. Luffy didn't ask to join Jimbey's crew !!! And Jimbey is ok with that so he know that Luffy is STRONGER than him, or Jimbey would have tell "no you join me i'm stronger than you so I must be your captain".
Hell he didn't, did he?

 

[vagabond87]

KingOfNight If you want to discuss stuff like that you lost all credit to me as poster- find someone else to discuss topics. For me you are lost cause when it comes to arguments as I try to give quite a few examples you seem to brush all of them aside as nothing. Those are subtle hints to strength of Monster trio, something that you might not recognise with your not caring with thinking about manga and what we were given on your own. You should googleThomas the Apostle and see what his perk was... seems like right up your alley.
One little thing- check your sources on Pacifistas being defeated- what you wrote about them is mostly your fan-fiction. Same goes with lowering strength of Vergo just for it to fit up with your not very wide way of seeing stuff in One Piece.
Goodbye

 

[Ninomiya]

And I agree with him : you underestimate Sanji AND Vergo. But it's ok, you'll accept the fact that Sanji is as strong as Jimbey when you'll see it.=

Neither vagabond87 nor KingOfNight are wrong here.
You've intervened and taken in it too far saying its a fact that Sanji is equal to Jinbei.
There isn't nearly enough to suggest he is Jinbei level.
There isn't even enough to suggest he is genuinely stronger than Vergo.

@KingOfNight, I think its too far to say that the Warlords make fodder out of the VA's. They're stronger than the majority of them but not to a point where they are useless before them. Most VA's can give them a good fight.
(Not including the Legendary Captain Buggy)

And it appears that Luffy is now 20, so the adventure pre-timeskip was on a year. Look at Luffy in the beginning of the manga and then in Marineford : for me more than a years was spent here. But it's only speculation, I may be totally wrong. I think Oda like to make his characters grow up, and for example Coby gained more than 1 year between beginning & Marineford...

Luffy is actually 19.
The entire story of Part I from East Blue to Marineford was in fact a matter many months and all happened in under a year.
Oda explains Coby just had an immense growth spurt.

 

[vagabond87]

Neither vagabond87 nor KingOfNight are wrong here.
You've intervened and taken in it too far saying its a fact that Sanji is equal to Jinbei.
There isn't nearly enough to suggest he is Jinbei level.
There isn't even enough to suggest he is genuinely stronger than Vergo.

@KingOfNight, I think its too far to say that the Warlords make fodder out of the VA's. They're stronger than the majority of them but not to a point where they are useless before them. Most VA's can give them a good fight.
(Not including the Legendary Captain Buggy)

I will now explain how my logic works.
Law defeated Vergo. Law is seen as Luffys rival and nobody expects that Luffy will turn out to be weaker than Law. We expect him to have small edge over him and we probably wont be disappointed when it comes to that expectation.
So.. We expect Luffy to fight with Doflamingo sooner or later, then he should be at his combat power level to have a chance of winning. Continuing- Vergo was slightly weaker than Doflamingo is, Zoro and Sanji are slightly weaker than Luffy. They should be around same combat power.

As for where and why I put Jimbei- I would say that Jimbei has almost no chances to win with Doflamingo who was depicted one of strongerst Warlords.
So if Luffy/Law are around Doflamingos "level" then putting Jimbei around Zoro and Sanji is not a crime.
If Vergo ended up as someone defeated by Law who is Luffys rival then they all are close.
Thats how I see it and what I EXPECT to be confirmed in future- this thread is about expectations.

Doflamingo>/=Luffy>Law>/=Zoro> Vergo=Sanji=Jimbei

Does it look that bad if I put it up like that and explain in detail everything?

 

[KingOfNight]

KingOfNight If you want to discuss stuff like that you lost all credit to me as poster- find someone else to discuss topics. For me you are lost cause when it comes to arguments as I try to give quite a few examples you seem to brush all of them aside as nothing.

Thank you for quoting me the first time while offending me and constantly telling me to "defend myself" only to later ignore me and say that you don't care about arguing. Also, excuse my not knowing my place and refusing your examples (which don't exist). I should have submitted to your mighty and deep words...NOT. I'm not here to get credit from you as a poster. And now you try to use jokes to get away without providing anything. Nice, very nice.

---------- Post added at 07:30 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:26 PM ----------

@KingOfNight, I think its too far to say that the Warlords make fodder out of the VA's. They're stronger than the majority of them but not to a point where they are useless before them. Most VA's can give them a good fight.
(Not including the Legendary Captain Buggy)

DD made a fodder out of Smoker. Jinbi made a fodder out of Strawberry. Maynard was fodderized, not even by a Warlord. DD also was toying with Stainless and Mozombia.

 

[vagabond87]

DD made a fodder out of Smoker. Jinbi made a fodder out of Strawberry. Maynard was fodderized, not even by a Warlord. DD also was toying with Stainless and Mozombia.

Smoker "fought" Doflamingo after being defeated by Law, then he had long fight with Vergo that ended up with him beaten up on the ground. As first fight didnt put a strain on his body, second one surely did.
As for making fodder out of Smoker- pissed off Doflamingo went straight for eyes/ face of Smoker. Here is some nice link, you like links- flying cut up parts of cigar indicate first hit to the face http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/698/11 here is second one http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/698/20 where we can see Smoker on the ground with cut up face, presumably after first hit. So I dont think that Smoker expected Doflamingo to go straight for the kill- thats first thing, second thing that Smoker wasnt in top physicall condition to even try to fight. Smoker might seem fodder but not to me.
Jimbei beaten up Strawberry who was Rear Admiral at that time when they fought yet we can assume that after years the gap between them stayed the sam with Jimbei being Warlord and being slightly stronger than Strawberry. Doflamingo was toying with them yet he only controlled one so he acts like attacking other. At war he Doflamingo controled Atomos and stoppend Jozu from moving in same way. Jozu who was able to fight for quite some time with Aokiji. So Doflamingo most probably cant controll more than one person in strength of Vice Admiral or above.
Maynard was "fodderized"(you like to use this word for situation where one person gets beaten by another dont you) by very tricky ability that redirects force of your own attacks at yourself. For all we know Bartolomeos fruit ability was strong enough to stop kings punch that KOed plenty of strong fighter in seconds. So saying that Bartolomeo is in same league as other supernovas in not overestimating him.
As for all that we saw I dont think of Vice Admirals as fooders but real force with wide spread of strength among them. From people close to Lucci but with haki as they all were said to use it to future marine Admirals candidates.
Avoid being so general if we saw plenty of different situations.
I reply as I cant stand generalizing.

 

[KingOfNight]

Smoker "fought" Doflamingo after being defeated by Law, then he had long fight with Vergo that ended up with him beaten up on the ground. As first fight didnt put a strain on his body, second one surely did.
As for making fodder out of Smoker- pissed off Doflamingo went straight for eyes/ face of Smoker. Here is some nice link, you like links- flying cut up parts of cigar indicate first hit to the face http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/698/11 here is second one http://www.mangareader.net/one-piece/698/20 where we can see Smoker on the ground with cut up face, presumably after first hit. So I dont think that Smoker expected Doflamingo to go straight for the kill- thats first thing, second thing that Smoker wasnt in top physicall condition to even try to fight. Smoker might seem fodder but not to me.
Jimbei beaten up Strawberry who was Rear Admiral at that time when they fought yet we can assume that after years the gap between them stayed the sam with Jimbei being Warlord and being slightly stronger than Strawberry. Doflamingo was toying with them yet he only controlled one so he acts like attacking other. At war he Doflamingo controled Atomos and stoppend Jozu from moving in same way. Jozu who was able to fight for quite some time with Aokiji. So Doflamingo most probably cant controll more than one person in strength of Vice Admiral or above.
Maynard was "fodderized"(you like to use this word for situation where one person gets beaten by another dont you) by very tricky ability that redirects force of your own attacks at yourself. For all we know Bartolomeos fruit ability was strong enough to stop kings punch that KOed plenty of strong fighter in seconds. So saying that Bartolomeo is in same league as other supernovas in not overestimating him.
As for all that we saw I dont think of Vice Admirals as fooders but real force with wide spread of strength among them. From people close to Lucci but with haki as they all were said to use it to future marine Admirals candidates.
Avoid being so general if we saw plenty of different situations.
I reply as I cant stand generalizing.

Are you trying to say that if he was in perfect condition, then the outcome will change ? Do you even realize how effortlessly DD beaten him ? Not to mention that he had enough time to rest and was healed (probably by Chopper) from those fights. How DD did it doesn't matter. He defeated him easily and that's all that matters. Went for the face, under the belt, in the back, it doesn't matter much. It's not like Smoker was caught off guard, he was ready to fight and even attacked DD first. How DD went at him doesn't matter. It's like saying "Luffy defeated Caesar because he was pissed and used Grizzly Magnum."
"Slightly stronger" is not the way to describe the difference between Strawberry and Jinbi. Again, regardless of how DD did it, he still toyed with them. I've never seen him toy with any tough guys. The best he could do to Jozu was stop him, and even then Jozu didn't seem the least worried. I use the word "fodderize" when the battle is a complete stomp. And once again, how he does it, is irrelevant. Every ability in the series that seems hax, have limits. Maynard lost because he was weaker than Bart, it's like that.

Most of them are fodders. Few like Momonga and Onigumo (and some others) are worthy of being mentioned.

 

[Sproumfch]

I've got a thing to add.
My point of view is based on the Manga, not Anime. I hope nobody bases they characters strenght info on the anime since they seem far weaker than in the manga.
And who is Strawberry?

 

[KingOfNight]

This guy : http://onepiece.wikia.com/wiki/Strawberry

 

[Sproumfch]

Does he get beat by Jimbey in the manga (not Anime)?

 

[Ninomiya]

I will now explain how my logic works.
Law defeated Vergo. Law is seen as Luffys rival and nobody expects that Luffy will turn out to be weaker than Law. We expect him to have small edge over him and we probably wont be disappointed when it comes to that expectation.
So.. We expect Luffy to fight with Doflamingo sooner or later, then he should be at his combat power level to have a chance of winning.

Ahh... Its right here...
Its never been a formula that Luffy has to be a similar strength to the person he intends to fight.

For instance, had it not been for his elemental resistance, Enel was miles stronger than him. Crocodile was stronger than him and kicked his ass twice and left our beloved Luffy like a dying dog and only due to Crocodile's arrogance was Luffy allowed to stay around and that ended up biting Crocodile back.
In fact, there are countless incidents of Luffy plotting to fight somebody who would absolutely kick his ass.

I'm not ready to say Luffy is on DD's level. Its likely Oda will perform an Enies Lobby, and have Luffy get stronger by kicking the ass of one opponent who isn't fodder but not the major opponent (Blueno) and have him grow in ability greatly from that fight, and then move on to the major antagonist of the arc, (Lucci).
Nothing really suggests Luffy is DD's level just yet.

I've got a thing to add.
My point of view is based on the Manga, not Anime. I hope nobody bases they characters strenght info on the anime since they seem far weaker than in the manga.
And who is Strawberry?

Well done there Sproumfch.
Jinbei VS Vice-Admiral Strawberry only exists in the anime.

This is because all of the 5 VA who went to Enies Lobby are supposed to be amongst the stronger bunch of VA's.
All of them are really strong and would have more than likely defeated Luffy in a one-on-one in Marineford, like how Momonga and Dalmatian outclassed him when they bumped into him during the war.
Like how Onigumo casually caught Marco who's a freaking fast bird at that.

Jinbei couldn't have fodderized Strawberry like that in the real storyline.
One of the few things I hate about the anime. They occasionally exaggerate moments to make one character look stronger but it always makes another character look much weaker.
Like Shu VS Zoro.

As for where and why I put Jimbei- I would say that Jimbei has almost no chances to win with Doflamingo who was depicted one of strongerst Warlords.
So if Luffy/Law are around Doflamingos "level" then putting Jimbei around Zoro and Sanji is not a crime.
If Vergo ended up as someone defeated by Law who is Luffys rival then they all are close.
Thats how I see it and what I EXPECT to be confirmed in future- this thread is about expectations.

Yeah, fair enough. I see where you're going with this.
My only issue is, the thread is what you expect from now on.
It doesn't include far off into future arcs, but the current arc or perhaps just after the current arc at most.

Right now in the story, its definitely not clear Luffy is DD's level.

I'm not saying you're wrong though since I guess it isn't impossible that Law/Luffy/Kid could be at DD level, but I think they will reach it gradually through this arc.
I think the Dressrosa arc will be significantly longer than the Punk Hazard arc.

 

[Sproumfch]

I'm not saying you're wrong though since I guess it isn't impossible that Law/Luffy/Kid could be at DD level, but I think they will reach it gradually through this arc.
I think the Dressrosa arc will be significantly longer than the Punk Hazard arc.

You may be right. But I think that the real improvment for Luffy will be again Kaidou. I think Luffy is more or less the equal of DD today (his Haki is for sure lower than DD's but his fists are tought and his speed is fast) but Kaidou may bring him some big problems and that's where he'll have to make a big effort.
I just also say that I'm sure Luffy will get his opponents (Kaidou DD & Big Mom for now) alone. It's Luffy, he has to proove his strenght !

To come bakc at the main plot, I hope we will the the beginning of the Block C, with Don Chijao shouting " Strawhat, I'll bring you down" and rushing at him and all the public astonished
Well in fact I'd like to get the hole Arc of DD / Kaidou NOW !!! All the chapter !!! AAAAAA
* running to the docks, bulding a ship and sailing across the sea*

 

[vagabond87]

Ahh... Its right here...
Its never been a formula that Luffy has to be a similar strength to the person he intends to fight.

For instance, had it not been for his elemental resistance, Enel was miles stronger than him. Crocodile was stronger than him and kicked his ass twice and left our beloved Luffy like a dying dog and only due to Crocodile's arrogance was Luffy allowed to stay around and that ended up biting Crocodile back.
In fact, there are countless incidents of Luffy plotting to fight somebody who would absolutely kick his ass.

I'm not ready to say Luffy is on DD's level. Its likely Oda will perform an Enies Lobby, and have Luffy get stronger by kicking the ass of one opponent who isn't fodder but not the major opponent (Blueno) and have him grow in ability greatly from that fight, and then move on to the major antagonist of the arc, (Lucci).
Nothing really suggests Luffy is DD's level just yet.


Yeah, fair enough. I see where you're going with this.
My only issue is, the thread is what you expect from now on.
It doesn't include far off into future arcs, but the current arc or perhaps just after the current arc at most.

Right now in the story, its definitely not clear Luffy is DD's level.

I'm not saying you're wrong though since I guess it isn't impossible that Law/Luffy/Kid could be at DD level, but I think they will reach it gradually through this arc.
I think the Dressrosa arc will be significantly longer than the Punk Hazard arc.

As for Luffy being at DD level Im saying all this mostly because we saw what Law can do- at least some glimpses- Oda made us sure that Law is stronger than Smoker and most probably stronger than Vergo by at least a bit.
So its like Law>VA- at least those that we seen fighting in Punk Hazard arc as likes of Onigumo, Doberman and few others can be stronger than Vergo and closer to Admirals. Law is not yet Admiral "level" but in between Admiral and Vice Admiral(assuming, not stating as ther can be VA stronger than him). Doflamingo was shown to be clearly stronger than Vice Admiral on more than one occasion, yet he didnt wanted to bet everything on fight with Admiral- Kuzan - during Punk Hazard. For me Doflamingo is under strength of Admiral by small bit in same time clearly stronger than VA.
So.. If Luffy is comparable to Law with small edge over him thanks to Haki training then I would say than Luffy and Doflamingo are extremly close to each other in combat power.
I admit that same as you do expect Luffy fighting someone who will play kind of mid arc Boss role just like Blueno and I expect this arc to be showing of some new abilities just like Enies Lobby was.
Getting back to Sanji for a moment- I expect that now he is capable of "Blue Diable Jambe"- heating up normal one with spinning as he was shown to go into Diable Jambe without spinning since start of "after time skip" so blue flame hotter than normall, with extreme burning power close to or greater than Cesars oxygen blue sword would be great for him as his new trump card, same as DJ was shown during EL arc. Beside it would fit nicely with his overall search for all blue.

 

[KingOfNight]

Does he get beat by Jimbey in the manga (not Anime)?

Yes. As a result of the horrible beating he got from Jinbi, the government feared him and made him a Shichibukai.

 

[Ninomiya]

Yes. As a result of the horrible beating he got from Jinbi, the government feared him and made him a Shichibukai.

This was when Strawberry was just a Rear Admiral, and also, I don't remember if their fight was that detailed in the manga.
Either way, Strawberry wasn't even a Vice-Admiral back then.
Vice Admiral Strawberry could never get destroyed by Jinbei like that in the manga. Its been hinted strongly that the VA's that went to the Buster Call in Enies Lobby were all extremely strong in the manga.

It was the anime that had Doberman talk extremely highly of Lucci, whilst in the manga, Doberman praises him slightly but in no way implies Lucci would be trouble for him.
The VA's aren't weak. At all.
One got wrecked by WB. WB of all people who would have wrecked most characters, he could have comfortably killed the Monster Trio pre-timeskip for example all at once.

I mean sure, Maynard might have been a notably weak one, but it can't be ignored what Onigumo, Momonga, Dalmatian and Vergo have done so far.

I think there are clearly upper VA's and lesser VA's.
The Lesser VA's right now are: Majority of the Giant Squad, Smoker, Maynard, Mozambia
Smoker since he is the newbie VA, Maynard cause of the ass-kicking we saw and Mozambia cause of how easily DD manipulated him to attack his comrade meaning his observational Haki must be rather weak.

The other VA's have been shown to be seriously strong though.

 

[KingOfNight]

This was when Strawberry was just a Rear Admiral, and also, I don't remember if their fight was that detailed in the manga.
Either way, Strawberry wasn't even a Vice-Admiral back then.
Vice Admiral Strawberry could never get destroyed by Jinbei like that in the manga. Its been hinted strongly that the VA's that went to the Buster Call in Enies Lobby were all extremely strong in the manga.

Why should we put Doflamingo and Hancock -Both easily dispatch of VA- above Jinbi ? The outcome isn't likely to change, even if they fight now. It wasn't detailed. Jinbi came and the next thing we saw is Strawberry being so messed up, his hair needed bandages. While Jinbi was smoking and chilling as he reads the request to become a Shichibukai.

One got wrecked by WB. WB of all people who would have wrecked most characters, he could have comfortably killed the Monster Trio pre-timeskip for example all at once.

Wasn't the giant Luffy one-shot in the war a VA ? Not sure, but I think he was.

I mean sure, Maynard might have been a notably weak one, but it can't be ignored what Onigumo, Momonga, Dalmatian and Vergo have done so far.

I think there are clearly upper VA's and lesser VA's.
The Lesser VA's right now are: Majority of the Giant Squad, Smoker, Maynard, Mozambia
Smoker since he is the newbie VA, Maynard cause of the ass-kicking we saw and Mozambia cause of how easily DD manipulated him to attack his comrade meaning his observational Haki must be rather weak.

The other VA's have been shown to be seriously strong though.

Don't you see the unbalance between strong and weak in your list ? The weak are dominant in the list. So it's not that they are weak by VA standards, it's that Momonga and Onigumo are strong by VA standards.

 

[kkck]

We have no particular reason to think maynard was weak at all. Bartolomeo has proven to have a powerful and perhaps remarkably hax ability. His group had a number of people with a lot of power and even then he dealt with them with precisely the same ease. Even elizobello's punch lived up to its hype (to the point where luffy claimed he had never seen anything like that) and he was still taken out with ease. Nothing has been said that suggest that maynard is in any form weak. He did take out a pirate worth 60 mil easily so he is definitely well away from the fodder side of the scale.

The giant luffy took out was not a VA. He was just some random giant from the giant squad.

 

[Ninomiya]

Wasn't the giant Luffy one-shot in the war a VA ? Not sure, but I think he was.

No. He is an unranked Marine.

Don't you see the unbalance between strong and weak in your list ? The weak are dominant in the list. So it's not that they are weak by VA standards, it's that Momonga and Onigumo are strong by VA standards.

Yes and no.
VA's that aren't so overwhelming or should we say "Lesser VA's" to be as accurate as possible.
From evidence in the manga:

Lesser VA's: Mozambia, Smoker, Maynard, John Giant* and Ronse* are the only ones we can confirm as not so great.

I mean, Whitebeard one-punched John Giant and Ronse but I don't know if that means they're weak...
How many can take the Quake punch full impact and not be unconscious?
Lacroix lost to Oars Jr. but Oars Jr. would have destroyed a lot of people in a one-on-one so I don't know if that makes him weak either.

Greater VA's: Onigumo, Momonga, Dalmatian,

Other VA's whose strength cannot be confirmed: Tsuru, Comil, Cancer, Bastille, Stainless, Doberman, Strawberry and Yamakiji.

The balance all depends on how weak you think it makes someone if WB one-punches them with a Quake at point-blank range.
Otherwise the balance isn't too bad. There are lesser VA's and Greater VA's right?

Why should we put Doflamingo and Hancock -Both easily dispatch of VA- above Jinbi ? The outcome isn't likely to change, even if they fight now. It wasn't detailed. Jinbi came and the next thing we saw is Strawberry being so messed up, his hair needed bandages. While Jinbi was smoking and chilling as he reads the request to become a Shichibukai.

Actually, we know Strawberry got injured. We don't know he lost let alone by a massive margin.
He most likely simply lost. And One Piece should teach you that over decades, people's strength can increase insanely. Its impossible to base Vice Admiral Strawberry's current strength on the strength he had ages ago way back when he was a Rear Admiral. Way back when Kizaru wasn't even Admiral.
Like Sanji and Vergo. Sanji's leg was hurt and all but nobody really lost.