Battle Gon vs Uvogin

KingOfNight

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When Gon is transformed he can wound Pitou significantly in a single kick that comes out instantly. This kick likely does in excess of 10000 AP if you assume all the Royal Guards are roughly the same calibur so there's no way they'd be able to do that kind of damage to each other so easily, and we know Yupi can do 10000 AP worth of damage very easily.

10000 AP is well beyond anything any human character have displayed, and transformed Gon can focus that amount nearly instantly. Yet he still has to go thorugh the same motion for Rock. How can this be an issue of experience when he can already focus an amount of aura greater than any human character has ever used instantly in that state?
Honestly, I consider Pitou to be the weakest among the Royal Guards. Pitou was wounded by a Kite that lost an arm, so just because transformed Gon can wound her doesn't mean he exceeded every human character in the series nor does it mean he can inflect 10000 AP with each strike. Also, the bold part is strange and doesn't make much sense. If you meant the kick by "focus an amount of aura greater than any human character", we don't know how much Aura it has or if it's anything aside from a normal kick that became insanely powerful due to restrictions he placed on himself.
 

kkck

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Well, the issue with the charging time being a restriction is that it has never really been said. It was suggested by knuckle but we do have to consider that it was something he said based on the information he had. The only character that can really confirm time to be a self imposed restriction would be gon so far. Gon has never made the point that the charging time is fixed so far. More so in the very knuckle fight we saw that the charging time was not a restriction in the end, it was a flaw that needed fixing. Even killua agreed that the technique is ordinarily useless. Heck, the only reason gon was able to use it was that he used cheap tricks which won't necessarily always work.

The position gon takes, his battle cries... those could be considered restrictions as it would make perfect sense they have an effect on gon since he does those because he genuinely likes it. In turn the time it takes him to gather nen for his ko could easily be attributed to his overall lack of experience using nen altogether. I don't think the manga has been anywhere near conclusive enough to suggest the time to charge ko is a restriction considering gon's hatsu as a whole is still in its developmental stages.
 

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There's a huge difference between flesh wound and coughing up blood. Even Netero was able to cause flesh wound to Meryem, and Netero's physical attack power is nothing special at the Royal Guard level. Meryem can take Netero's hit while sitting still but he's still *wounded* the same way Kite *wounded* Pitou. We don't even know if the blood was Kite's or Pitou's, not that it'd matter since such trivial wounds have no effect on the physique of a Royal Guard.

If anything Pitou is easily the strongest of the Royal Guards, though his abilities might be ill-suited for fighting as his ability seems to be geared to solely help the King. Consider:

1. Pitou is said to be stronger than Netero by Netero himself.
2. He maintains an En of 1km+ radius day and night, and clearly has the largest En out of all Royal Guards. While En radius does not imply power, there's no way you should assume a guy with a smaller radius ought to be stronger. After all, En is basically just an extension of your available aura.
3. When being punished by Meryem, he appears to shrug off the hit most casually. In fact, Yupi's the only one who complained about getting hit sucks out of the 3 RGs.
4. He uses Manipulation techniques to control Meryem's army, despite the fact that Pufu is a Manipulation user and ought to be better at doing this stuff. Pitou's Manipulation ability is also more advanced than Pufu, as he can manipulate memory while Pufu cannot (this is why Pufu doesn't actually mind Palm betraying them because that'd mean he'd no longer need Pitou).

In the actual fight it is said that Yupi is more than 10 times more powerful than any of his opponents, but he still cannot connect a hit. Pitou, however, is said to be able to kill Gon in one hit anytime he wanted to, and the only reason he didn't do that was because Komugi was taken as a hostage. Pufu, on the other hand, would actually lose to Killua at 1/14 of his full power (clone contains 1/7 of his self plus 50% penalty for not directly controlled). We can also infer that 50% of Pufu's power can be defeated by 'several guys as strong as Morel', according to Pufu himself. Given Killua beat his clone, it'd appear he's most certainly not 10 times stronger than his opponents.

Pitou's ability might be least suited for combat but in terms of raw power, he is easily the top of the Royal Guards. Based on the damage all 3 RG took from being punished by Meryem, there's no apparent difference in their ability to withstand damage.

Now moving on to Gon. It doesn't matter how Gon did that kick. The point is he is able to focus enough energy in a single kick that surpasses what any human level character has been able to do (the only being that could possibly wound Pitou that seriously in one hit would be Meryem). Yet immediately after doing that he still went through the same motion to prepare for Rock. This means the charge time restriction on Rock is absolute. It cannot be related to experience because we see he can put enough aura in a single kick that surpasses any human level character can do basically instantly, so in that transformed state Gon has the ability to concentrate an amount of aura that far exceeds any human can gather. Yet even with this kind of incredible power, he still needs time to do Rock.

---------- Post added at 04:57 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:46 PM ----------

Well, the issue with the charging time being a restriction is that it has never really been said. It was suggested by knuckle but we do have to consider that it was something he said based on the information he had. The only character that can really confirm time to be a self imposed restriction would be gon so far. Gon has never made the point that the charging time is fixed so far. More so in the very knuckle fight we saw that the charging time was not a restriction in the end, it was a flaw that needed fixing. Even killua agreed that the technique is ordinarily useless. Heck, the only reason gon was able to use it was that he used cheap tricks which won't necessarily always work.

The position gon takes, his battle cries... those could be considered restrictions as it would make perfect sense they have an effect on gon since he does those because he genuinely likes it. In turn the time it takes him to gather nen for his ko could easily be attributed to his overall lack of experience using nen altogether. I don't think the manga has been anywhere near conclusive enough to suggest the time to charge ko is a restriction considering gon's hatsu as a whole is still in its developmental stages.
If the time to prepare for Rock is due to lack of experience then when Gon is transformed, he should've just hit Pitou with Rock on the first hit instead of kick him into mid air and then do Rock. After all Rock is still his most powerful move. Trasnformed Gon has a mastery of aura that easily surpasses any human character in HXH, as he can focus enough AP to do serious damage to Pitou nearly instantly. Yet even with this level of expertise, it was not possible for him to simply do a Rock under the same opportunity (otherwise he'd have done it instead of kicking Pitou first). The frames in the Rock sequence show that even transformed, it is not an instantaneous process to focus this much energy.

Now of course if Transformed Gon just wants to do 2000 AP worth of damage, which is what his Rock does as a child, he can certainly do that at will. But if he wants to do more damage, he is still limited by the Rock's charge time. Keep in mind that Gon is probably aware his transformation can't possibly last very long, so although he certainly has a huge upper hand just using normal moves against Pitou, he absolutely has to end that fight quickly before the transformation effect runs out.
 

Demonspeed

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Uvo's first BBI was charged. He probably used it to 100%. When the Worm trapped him, he gathered all his aura in his punch, I guess he thought he was safe because:
-The 2 others where too far to touch him.
-He was sure to be able to resist any attack the Worm could perform(maybe he wasn't even able to attack) and he was right because even Kurapika's Enhanced punch is slightly stronger than Uvo's physical strength.

You'll notice it had the same effect than Rock has on others, they were afraid by its power before he even attacked. After that he never used a 100% BBI again for obvious reasons. Phinks too must wind his arm in order to charge his RC and again, the Ant was afraid. I guess Enhancers attack take more time to charge because they are more powerful(Phinks Hatsu's power is theoretically infinite), it's logical. THier Ko attacks are frightening because others are clearly overwhelmed by the full power of their "enhanced" Ko. Wing explained they can have strong "abilities" without restrictions, it's the more balanced type and the best for offense, defense and recovery. Mizuken said Manipulators and Conjurers must use conditions to keep up with them.
In general a Enhancement abilities doesn't have restrictions. I think you are reading in it too much because we haven't seen many of them in serious fights. The most complex ones were Palm's Merman Clairvoyance which is a mix and Gido's abilities but Gido's one aren't restricted. Now that Palm has an offensive Hatsu, she is able to attack and defend simultaneously and is even stronger than Killua. Super Gon was charging because he had a lot of aura to gather.

It's normal to take time in order to gather so much aura. This is not a restriction.
 

baboysai

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Also, Transformed Gon is still not the same as "experienced fighter". :oh He just transformed, became some sort of monster with tremendous aura, but his battle experience was still the same. He most probably had a hard time controlling himself during that time because of his inexperience.
 

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Also, Transformed Gon is still not the same as "experienced fighter". :oh He just transformed, became some sort of monster with tremendous aura, but his battle experience was still the same. He most probably had a hard time controlling himself during that time because of his inexperience.
So how did he beat Pitou? He evaded Pitou's behind-the-back attack, did he not? This isn't the sort of reflexes that normal Gon possessed - in fact Pitou thought she could take him out in one shot. Even Kite wasn't quick enough to stop Pitou from taking his arm, despite spotting Pitou with his En. Hell Gon could barely react to Knuckles' attacks. Transcendent Gon (yes i'm calling him that) on the other hand took Pitou to the cleaners.

Uvo's BBI came out instantaneously. If the preparation time is just Gon being inefficient with Nen then how come his Ko is damn near instant despite being only marginally less powerful than Rock? Recall that his Ken (which is the max amount of power that he could gather into his Ko) is 1800 AP and Rock is roughly 2000 AP (in fact it's probably less, since Knuckle estimated that Gon used 5500 AP with his first 3 rocks).
 

baboysai

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He beat Pitou with his monsterrific Aura and his total lack of reason (i.e. risking his limbs and use them as weapons- without knowing whether his body or limbs could be restored). All the more reason why I should believe he's inexperienced. Anyone with more experience than this kid wouldn't dare do what he did with the Pitou fight.

Yeah maybe his senses and reflexes also changed during the transformation- but still, the experience, as I mentioned in my previous post, remained the same prior to battle. Unless there's a time-warp I'm not aware of that happened in a parallel universe.

There are three possible match-ups when we say "Gon vs. Uvogin":

1. Kid Gon vs. Uvo
2. Transformed Gon vs. Uvo
3. Adult Gon vs. Uvo

Where, in no. 2, we use "transformed Gon" and thus keep relating to Pitou because that's the only time he's transformed. Now from what I said, I stand by the fact that this Transformed Gon is still inexperienced because though his body is that of an adult (to contain the sudden surge of aura), his brain was still that of a 12-year old.
 

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Where, in no. 2, we use "transformed Gon" and thus keep relating to Pitou because that's the only time he's transformed. Now from what I said, I stand by the fact that this Transformed Gon is still inexperienced because though his body is that of an adult (to contain the sudden surge of aura), his brain was still that of a 12-year old.
Then surely his Rock should have come out damn near instantly? (assuming you are arguing in favor of Rock's charge-up time being inefficient usage of Nen)

If you are talking about "experience" in terms of battle experience, it's hard to say what battle experience will do for Gon against an Enhancer like Uvogin who fights a very straightforward fight. Experience would be useful against guys with complex hatsus but not so much against Uvo, particularly since Gon is an Enhancer himself.
 

Demonspeed

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I agree with baybosai. Only his Nen and physical body. It's normal for him to be faster since speed and reflexes have nothing to do with his speed(at least in Gon's case) but his Nen mastery didn't evolve. It's not as if he trained hard and daily to gain this power. He just "borrowed" it with a condition.
 

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The thing is, reflexes don't increase with age - they increase with training. His AOP is also through the roof and as stated by Knuckle, AOP is about training - not just his aura reserves, which is also probably something that increases with training rather than age. It also appears that his Paper had improved in effectiveness (no way to tell definitively, but if it was as ineffective as before, requiring 8x the expenditure to do 1x damage, then surely it wouldn't have damn near vaporized Pitou?)
 

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Transformed Gon was able to dodge an attack from Pitou and then put nearly all (if not all) of his aura on his feet to counterattack instantaneously. It's a given he has a complete mastery of aura at this point. What he did is arguably a higher level than 'impossible to predict from aura' that Netero is known for. He basically can switch from Ken to Ko instantaneously at that state which is a step above Netero's 'impossible to predict', as in transformed Gon it is futile to predict because he only needs to shift his aura at the very instant his attacks hit you, so from the defender's point of view all you know is every time you get hit you'll get hit by something on par with Ko and there's nothing you can do about it.
 

kkck

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Well, as far as we saw when it came to transformed gon he experienced an increase in physical capacity given his growth and on top of that he got as much nen as he could possibly have. That does not necessarily mean gon would get actual skill from the sacrifice. Do we have any confirmation that the transformation actually allowed gon to move his nen around at a greater rate than what he was already capable of? He got a perfectly honed adult body and a massive increase in nen, it is entirely possible that enough would be alone to beat the everloving crap out of pitou without even needed perfect aura flow around him.
 

Phantron

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If Gon could do 10000+ AP range damage without having perfect mastery of aura that just means his raw stats is even more off the chart than previously thought so in the end it really doesn't matter. He is either skilled enough to do that kind of damage on demand, or he is simply strong enough to do that kind of damage on demand. Either way there's no way a human opponent could possibly withstand a guy that can do 10K AP damage on demand. But I assume he used paper to finish off Pitou (because he sure can't punch with a severed hand but Paper would still work) and if his skill didn't improve, then it should be much weaker than his rock so again either he's able to use all his techniques at maximum mastery, or that his raw stat is so high that operating at something like 1/5 or so efficiency he can still completely blow up a Royal Guard.

At any rate I find Gon's moves to be pretty bogus. It'd be like if you have a move whose condition is that it kills yourself when you use it, except it doesn't actually do that. The limitation of Jajanken is simply far too strict to be of any use if he's not the main character of HXH and thus cannot possibly die, because otherwise he'd literally die the first time he attempted to use this technique against anyone reasonably strong, let alone against guys much stronger than he.
 
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