Discussion Sabo Thread

[M3J]

Re: One Piece 723 Discussion/ 724 Prediction

http://www.google.com/imgres?imgurl...a=X&ei=fMlMUsSJOsGsiAL9iIHICQ&ved=0CFcQ9QEwBQ

This link is to the part in "One Piece Green" that confirms Sabo's death. Denying that is sheer willful ignorance. The whole reason I brought this up is because a few of you are claiming that Gladius is Sabo, which is wrong. These "theories", which are fanon no matter how you rationalize it, make no sense whatsoever because Oda said himself that Sabo is dead. We didn't see his body, but other characters in the chapter were saying he's dead. Until Oda says otherwise, Sabo is dead.

@M3J - I'm only using the information that Oda provides. There's nothing cryptic about it. You're being ridiculously purist about it with your "only the manga counts" approach. The Databooks are a part of the canon. Oda writes them to fill in the gaps he left out in the manga. You want Sabo alive to fulfill your fanwanking fantasies. It's pretty sad that you'll go as far as saying that Oda himself is wrong, nevermind that he clearly said Sabo is dead.

So basically, you have no proof in the manga that Sabo is dead. Good game.

I never said Oda was wrong. Where did I say that? If you read my post correctly, you'd see that I said the information could have been incomplete or misleading on purpose. Again, databooks may be written by mangaka, but they're less canon than manga. You're just clinging onto hope that Sabo is dead with the only flimsy evidence in databooks.

Of course I'm being a "purist," manga has far more evidence and proof that can't be contradicted than databooks do. Hell, characters saying Sabo is dead doesn't make it dead, it's just what they think. Crocodile fought Luffy and left him for dead, so he went around telling everyone Luffy was dead despite Luffy bein alive. Is that a fact?

Fact is, Oda has foreshadowed Sabo being alive. The only counter to Sabo bein alive is the databook, which may or may not be accurate. Tell me something - did any databook pre-Marineford War mention Sabo at all, or was it after the flashback?

Either way, when you have actual proof in the manga that Sabo is dead, then lemme know. Otherwise I'm done.

 

[hoeru]

I have to agree Kaiten in the current chapter thread.

Did he see the body? Did he confirm the kill?

Dogura saw Sabo on the boat, the explosion and confirmed the death and even took a beating from Ace without backing off from his words.

Didn't we have eyewitnesses to Pell's death, only to see he's still alive?

Pell was revealed alive only weeks after his "death". Were is such a part about Sabo after all those years? Right, there is none.

Again, without body, death means nothing here.

Wrong, as Sabo died in a flashback. Anything so far we have seen about people dying in a flashback means a 100% sure death without any doubts whatsoever. Or are you even doubting now that Robin is the last survival of Ohara because there's no corpse to be seen from the bombardment? Or Banchina is probably also happily alive somewhere hiding from Usopp and Yasopp...

Again, databooks mean nothing. It's funny how people only have databooks to fall back on when arguing Sabo is dead.

Well, just keep denying that data books are the condensed knowledge about the manga while making fun of people falling back on them. The text about Sabo being dead was the same both in Green and Blue Deep in the original version. So it's completely pointless to deny their liability on that part just because people want their wish to come true as that text was revised at least twice without being changed after the second time.

How did this whole Sabo discussion pop up anyway?

You picked it up, so you have to know it.

You guys will theorize Rebecca winning, getting mera mera no mi, or even joining the crew, but will think Sabo is dead just because some databook that doesn't have complete info says so. Hmph.

What does Rebecca now have to do with Sabo being dead? Or where did especially I theorise anything about Rebecca winning (I hope she does, but I never pulled a THEORY on that), nor getting the Mera Mera power (I hope she does, but I never pulled a THEORY), nor anything about her joining the crew (I hoped she would do, but after the flashback that hope is gone).

So what was your point in bringing up Rebecca aside from a failed change of topic?

 

[Schabrak]

And right in the evening we have one of Dragon's men talk about finding somebody wounded.

There couldn't/can't be one, it would take the suprise obviously, especially since Sabo was only introduced in the flashback directly before the time-skip and we still haven't gotten a RA arc/saga. Ever thought about the cover story pic showing all three as adults being a red herring, so readers will concentrate on the actual current plot? Showing Sabo shortly after would have taken away from Luffy's resolve to conquer the New World. It would in a way take away some credibility.

You realize how childish it is to pull those other instances? You are reducing Oda to a formula with such statements.

But it's you who keeps ignoring that the databooks have mistakes and can very well be erroneous. Again, it's Greg, the most famous One Piece fan alive that confirmed that and he's studied the series and data books than likely anybody else.

Again, databooks mean nothing. It's funny how people only have databooks to fall back on when arguing Sabo is dead. How did this whole Sabo discussion pop up anyway?

Similarities to Doffy and Gladius hat.^^

M3J brought it up because we are allowed to discuss topics that some users deem ridiculous, reaching or crazy. Yet quiestioning Sabo's dead because there are two instances in the actual manga that create doubt shouldn't?

Also pay attention to his words please, he used a plural to talk about the whole community. I would rather blame EddyBob15 for putting so much attention at her bumping everything around Rebecca in multiple threads. Not that it wasn't entertaining or wrong.

hoeru, never go full-fanboy.

 

[hoeru]

And right in the evening we have one of Dragon's men talk about finding somebody wounded.

...with no one else but Kuma missing in the following panels.

You realize how childish it is to pull those other instances? You are reducing Oda to a formula with such statements.

It's like you (all) calling it a "101 of One Piece" that we would need to see a corpse to confirm a death citing other instances - which is nonsense as most of those flashback deaths were without seeing any corpse at all, including Roger, Banchina and all citizens of Ohara.

How many characters that were introduced in a flashback survived such a scene with more than just one eye whitness? Sabo's ship was blown up in front of all citizens watching the Tenryuubito's arrival. Dogura watched it with binoculars.

But it's you who keeps ignoring that the databooks have mistakes and can very well be erroneous. Again, it's Greg, the most famous One Piece fan alive that confirmed that and he's studied the series and data books than likely anybody else.

I know very well that they are errornous at some parts, as I used to point that out myself. But Greg did not comment on Sabo's text being the same in TWO data books, did he? It's 100% the same text in both Green AND Blue Deep - Kanji by Kanji.

Sure they are not to be taken lightly, but they are a reliable source as summaries because errors used to be corrected from one data book to the following one - like Sanji's wrong age in Red, which was corrected in Blue, then Yellow, and then Green.

So, how great is the possibility that this text is wrong TWICE?

hoeru, never go full-fanboy.

Please, tell that those Sabo fanboys that keep pointing on every single new male character with either a bit of dialogue or some mysterical looking features. As we're talking, I know that there's still gaps even in Ace's farewell scene which could Oda make hook in some flash back panel for Sabo being reintroduced - but only due to manga being sequential story telling.

But the current canon is just as simple: Based on our current facts, Sabo is dead, confirmed by eye whitnesses, confirmed by the farewell letter, confirmed by databooks, confirmed by the fact that neither Ace nor Luffy lost a single word about Sabo outside of that flashback about Sabo.

 

[Razh]

I for one don't think we've seen Sabo so far. All that stuff with Cyborg Sabo was just a joke, at least that's how I used it. Gladius will always be Cyborg Sabo for me

But no databook can detest the fact that Oda purposely put in some hints that allow possibility of Sabo's survival. One just needs to sift through this thread a little. It's tiresome to copy links all the time for lazy people. In short, there's Dragon carrying someone wounded, 3 cups in front of Ace's grave, and Oda's confusing answer on SBS about those 3 cups on the grave. You can notice Oda didn't say:"Sabo's dead, I already said that in databooks, can't you guys read?"

Every time someone was confirmed dead in One Piece, there was no doubt left. For Sabo, not only did we not see him actually die, but Oda keeps teasing us with small hints. This is not much different than Pell getting his head cover after supposedly exploding. If he was never shown again, ok. Dead. If Oda wanted to erase all doubt Sabo was dead, there would be no Dragon on his boat and Iwankov talking about treating someone wounded, let alone 3 cups on the grave. Why even put that in manga if there's no significance? Confirmed death my ass. Is all I'm saying.

 

[kkck]

Oda has given enough hints at sabo being alive by now. That shouldn't even be the discussion at this point, the issue should be what exactly he has been doing and whether he became a revolutionary. Also, kuma was shown among the revolutionaries with dragon in the flashback.
http://www.mangareader.net/103-52556-15/one-piece/chapter-587.html
The only reason to event tell us about finding a wounded person would be that that person is no other than sabo.... Its the only thing which makes sense contextually. I guess sabo could have still died from his wounds but IMO thats unlikely.

 

[hokageji]

Yes, Sabo is alive for a simple reason, why would Oda introduce him if he just wanted to kill him off....

I remember a discussion about Bellamy being dead because he didnt appear in the databook, but we saw him now. Oda wants to keep his existence a secret and that is why he is leaving things murky.

Anyways, one more thing about Sabo. He would be hte only person who would know about Dragon's origin. Dragon being from East Blue. Ivankov never did, i doubt others did too.

 

[k-dom]

To bad Razh previous post was deleted as it summarized perfectly everything I think on this subject. Those who believe that they are a proof of Sabo's death are misunderstanding there purpose. I agree there is no mistake in them saying that Sabo is dead but since they can't say anything else even if he is alive then what kind of proof is that ?
On the other hand we have in the manga, 2 major hints of his survival which make no sense if they are not about Sabo. If there was really no doubt then Oda instead of remaining vague when asked the question would have made a bad joke like he always does.

 

[M3J]

IMO anyone who says Sabo is confirmed to be death is extremely delusional. If you want to say Sabo is dead or you think he's dead, go ahead, but it's no different from people claiming he could be alive. We know Sabo's ship exploded/caught on fire with him in it. We also know that Dragon brought a wounded boy on the ship, and if I recall, blamed Tenryuubito. I'm not sure if Dragon met Sabo beforehand though, I forgot if he did.

How does Gladius look like Sabo? I see absolutely no resemblance whatsoever.... Bartamoleo looks more like Sabo than Gladius.

 

[Razh]

How does Gladius look like Sabo? I see absolutely no resemblance whatsoever.... Bartamoleo looks more like Sabo than Gladius.

Nah, it was just his hat. When he first appeared and shot Baby 5 while she was rampaging, someone called him Cyborg Sabo, which I thought was hillarious. After that the name kinda caught on. But the hats aren't even that similar, really.

I suppose there is a slight possibility that it is Sabo with his scarred body covered, working undercover for Revolutionaries, but come on! That would be the worst thing ever.

Yeah, Dragon met him before:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-52248-18/one-piece/chapter-586.html

After reading One Piece so long, I can't believe it's a coincidence Dragon and Sabo met, and Dragon ended up carrying someone wounded to his ship after Sabo supposedly died from explosions.

 

[Schabrak]

What does Kuma have to do with anything here? How does it matter where he is, he will have been a strong pirate by that time already and there is really nothing to fear in the East.

Nah pay attention please, he only uses the a field glass at the very beginning to confirm Sabo's identity. He's pretty far away and Sabo could have been on the debris with enough room to keep him hidden.

Spoiler

What's more, look at the red box and underlined text, Oda especially puts the attention that it is the same day of the attack on Sabo? What freaking reason would he have to do that? It had no meaning but to remind us that it was the day of the attack.

Spoiler

About the text in Green and Deep Blue, of fucking course it's unchanged, there is absolutely no reason to reveal him as being alive before and if he get's a re-entrance into the plot. Keeping the truth hidden would be reasonable if Oda intends to keep him out of the story.

It's silly to call a character dead until we see him being so, One Piece should have taught you that years ago, I know you are rabid fan of it too. Remember Bentham who was supposedly about to die due to Magellan, only to have him reappear as the new queen of New Okamaland.

How does Gladius look like Sabo? I see absolutely no resemblance whatsoever.... Bartamoleo looks more like Sabo than Gladius.

That's because we only saw the outline of his hat and not it's true form, a covered body with a mechanical touch to it could have explained a burned/crippled body. Though him being Sabo made no actual sense.^^

 

[M3J]

Nah, it was just his hat. When he first appeared and shot Baby 5 while she was rampaging, someone called him Cyborg Sabo, which I thought was hillarious. After that the name kinda caught on. But the hats aren't even that similar, really.

I suppose there is a slight possibility that it is Sabo with his scarred body covered, working undercover for Revolutionaries, but come on! That would be the worst thing ever.

Yeah, Dragon met him before:
http://www.mangareader.net/103-52248-18/one-piece/chapter-586.html

After reading One Piece so long, I can't believe it's a coincidence Dragon and Sabo met, and Dragon ended up carrying someone wounded to his ship after Sabo supposedly died from explosions.

Why the worst thing ever? What if Sabo has amnesia?

What does Kuma have to do with anything here? How does it matter where he is, he will have been a strong pirate by that time already and there is really nothing to fear in the East.

Nah pay attention please, he only uses the a field glass at the very beginning to confirm Sabo's identity. He's pretty far away and Sabo could have been on the debris with enough room to keep him hidden.

Spoiler

What's more, look at the red box and underlined text, Oda especially puts the attention that it is the same day of the attack on Sabo? What freaking reason would he have to do that? It had no meaning but to remind us that it was the day of the attack.

Spoiler

About the text in Green and Deep Blue, of fucking course it's unchanged, there is absolutely no reason to reveal him as being alive before and if he get's a re-entrance into the plot. Keeping the truth hidden would be reasonable if Oda intends to keep him out of the story.

It's silly to call a character dead until we see him being so, One Piece should have taught you that years ago, I know you are rabid fan of it too. Remember Bentham who was supposedly about to die due to Magellan, only to have him reappear as the new queen of New Okamaland.


That's because we only saw the outline of his hat and not it's true form, a covered body with a mechanical touch to it could have explained a burned/crippled body. Though him being Sabo made no actual sense.^^

Hmm, hat looks different and there's no gogglel I could see Sabo putting on goggle for nostalgia's sake.

 

[Schabrak]

Why the worst thing ever? What if Sabo has amnesia?

Amnesia has a bad reputation when used in manga. :P That's why I would like him to remember everything, especially since he would have worked with Luffy's father all these years.

Hmm, hat looks different and there's no gogglel I could see Sabo putting on goggle for nostalgia's sake.

Looks like glasses/compact goggles to me, even in that panel from 682. Changing the hat from time to time can be nice, not everyone wants to wear a sweaty strawhat all their live long.^^

 

[M3J]

Could happen though. Sabo forgets, meets Luffy, starts to remember, and it's a merry reunification.

No, I meant on the hat. Sabo's worn the same hat for years,a nd it seems Ace did as well. Though he likely has a new hat, I thought he'd put goggle on it.

 

[k-dom]

Amnesia doesn't work with the sake cups though

 

[M3J]

True, but it may not necessarily be Sabo's cup. What if Luffy put another cup there to symbolize the trio's bond? Or Garp, even?

 

[Razh]

Don't you get tired of trolling like that?

You must be bored. Or just evil, haha.

 

[M3J]

I'm not trolling, I'm just open to different possibilities. I personally think Sabo could be alive, but I'm all about hard proof that can't be contradicted... not easily anyway.

 

[Razh]

Only proof that couldn't be contradicted is Sabo actually appearing and saying - It's me, Sabo!

At least for people who believe databook info over what has actually happened in manga. But seriously, the amnesia thing would have sucked. The world of OP is big, and Sabo could be anywhere or doing anything. He could have been half a world away when Ace's execution was announced. Not everyone can fly or teleport. Fact that he wasn't there, trying to save Ace is a poor argument.

 

[M3J]

What if he was too busy or didn't know about the execution because he was busy?